Bond 22 - Quantum of Solace

johnny_ultimate · 04-11-2008 12:27am

Really didn't like Casino Royale, and didn't think much of this either. It was entertaining, but a lot of problems. For a series trying to go gritty and realistic, parts such as the plane chase feel out of place. The opening chase is fun, but as they feel the need to have more and more vehicles explode it is a bit at odds with the rest of the film. It is James Bond, a series known for action, so perhaps it should be expected, but just seems a bit too inconsistent. Its too far fetched (although the lack of invisible cars is still infinitely welcome) for the story and character they are trying to develop.

Editing, as mentioned, is bad. It is always a bad thing to notice the editing (and as great as the Dark Knight was, it suffered from similiar problems) but the action sometimes jumps weirdly. The quick pacing makes it hard to get a grips on whats happening, and once or twice (in the car and boat chases particularly) it was a little disorientating.

And as said the story is a wee bit overly convoluted. It is easy to get the gist, but some of the subtleties are hidden in complexity.

I must admit I am a Bond cynic, far more approving of the other spy that begins with 'Bo'. But I think the main problem is trying to make a franchise like this seem relevant. It was a good idea to insert the plot about oil and resources (even if it was pretty heavy handed) in a film where the main hero is a Cold War, macho kind of guy: they are trying to bring Bond up to date. But emotionally its hard to engage with (none of the deaths have been shocking). The film tries hard to find a balance between old Bond and new concerns, but struggles like Casino Royale. Like that film's middle act, some parts are good: the opera scene for example. And the fights have a real weight to them: shattering glass and awkwardness make for some good fisticuffs. It is entertainment, but trying to take the character in this direction has proven difficult. And the fact that this just seems like a standard sequel - theres even more parkour! - it doesn't really improve upon anything.

Most importantly though: yes, there appeared to be a graphic upskirt shot which was one of the most bizarre shots in recent memory.

zuroph · 04-11-2008 1:40am

Raekwon wrote: »

Also what was with his pumpkin pie haircutted henchman? I waited the whole movie to see him do something nasty but he was just a some movable scenery eating prop who looked like an extra from a Farrelly Brothers film

see, this, and the fact that Fields doesnt announce her full name, instead choosing to say "Just fields", i saw as a wink to the camera, acknowledging previous cheesey elements of bond films, but showing that they're going in a new more serious direction with them.

The only thing i could really fault is some of the editing, could have been longer but maybe we can blame the writers strike for that, and i'm sure the next installation will be an epic round up.
also, the opening credits were quite disappointing. the song i now love, but all the bond silhouette did was move around with his gun drawn, a "hard-hitting bond kicking seven shades of excrement" silhouette would have been much better.
I followed it quite well, and knew we wouldnt find out much about quantum, hollywood is obsessed with trilogy stories these days.

norrie rugger · 04-11-2008 9:48am

zuroph wrote: »

I followed it quite well, and knew we wouldnt find out much about quantum, hollywood is obsessed with trilogy stories these days.

It felt like that to me too. Like the middle part of a trilogy, setting up the big finale. This film will stand or fall based on the strength of the third installment

Hardrain · 04-11-2008 2:36pm

I really liked it and am dreaming of a Directors Cut of it. Apparently a lot of dialogue was cut?

senordingdong · 04-11-2008 4:17pm

While we're at this, can somebody please tell me what exact;y happened in Haiti?

Someone (an MI5 agent?) was supposed to kill the Russian woman, then Bond followed her, then she got onto th Generals boat, then Bond pulled her off it, then a battle ensued?

doonothing · 04-11-2008 4:32pm

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Most importantly though: yes, there appeared to be a graphic upskirt shot which was one of the most bizarre shots in recent memory.

That was hilarious!

zuroph · 04-11-2008 4:39pm

senordingdong wrote: »

While we're at this, can somebody please tell me what exact;y happened in Haiti?

Someone (an MI5 agent?) was supposed to kill the Russian woman, then Bond followed her, then she got onto th Generals boat, then Bond pulled her off it, then a battle ensued?

Bond went after the guy they had worked out was working for quantum. he kills him. She mistakes bond for him, and has been sent by the boss to pick him up. the boss has arranged for the other guy to kill her. so when bond opens the briefcase he says "apparently i'm meant to kill you". she gets away, he follows her to the base. she confronts her boss about the murder attempt, he tells her if she sticks around he'll introduce her to the general who she wants to kill. instead, he hands her over to her, knowing the general will rape and kill her.
Bond knows she knows a lot more about the whole situation so goes after her..

etc etc..

Otacon · 04-11-2008 4:43pm

senordingdong wrote: »

While we're at this, can somebody please tell me what exact;y happened in Haiti?

Someone (an MI5 agent?) was supposed to kill the Russian woman, then Bond followed her, then she got onto th Generals boat, then Bond pulled her off it, then a battle ensued?

Bond killed the assassin. The guy was hired by Domonic Greene to get rid of Camille. After Bond opened the briefcase, she realised [mistakenly] that he was there to kill her. She then proceeded to confront Greene at the dock.

The General was her target all along. She used Greene to get to him. Greene knew this, and informed the General about who Camille was.

senordingdong · 04-11-2008 5:15pm

Ok, thanks lads.

norrie rugger · 04-11-2008 5:27pm

doonothing wrote: »

That was hilarious!

Reminded me of "Fight Club" where Brad Pitt would insert pics into the movie.

I actually looked around in the cinema and there were a few "did I just see that?" faces along with mine

ryoishin · 04-11-2008 5:38pm

it was full on to, giblets and all. Ive seen it twice and the 2nd time i made sure.

Dont be at yourself · 04-11-2008 6:09pm

The cynic in me says that the blink-and-you'll-miss-it fanny shot is in there to drive blu-ray sales. Am I wrong?

Handsome Bob · 04-11-2008 8:43pm

It was a good film, but nothing that I could engross myself in. There wasn't any scenes that had my heart pounding like there was in Casino Royale (the defibrillator scene for instance). I liked how by the end of the film Bond

had started on the road away from recklessness when he chose not to kill Greene or the guy who screwed over Vesper.

I'd give it a 3/5.

senordingdong · 04-11-2008 11:41pm

LZ5by5 wrote: »

It was a good film, but nothing that I could engross myself in. There wasn't any scenes that had my heart pounding like there was in Casino Royale (the defibrillator scene for instance). I liked how by the end of the film Bond
had started on the road away from recklessness when he chose not to kill Greene or the guy who screwed over Vesper.

I'd give it a 3/5.

That also pissed me off....he was on some out of control revenge bender for the whole film and then he catched the two biggest culprits of Vespers death and he doesn't kill them...

Handsome Bob · 04-11-2008 11:46pm

senordingdong wrote: »

That also pissed me off....he was on some out of control revenge bender for the whole film and then he catched the two biggest culprits of Vespers death and he doesn't kill them...

Ah I don't know, I saw it as progression of a character. Throughout the film he was letting go of opportunities of gaining information by murdering people. By the end of the film he had learned that that kind of recklessness was not going to aid him as a special agent. He seemingly ceased to let the rage control him.

05-11-2008 12:14am

iMax wrote: »

I've come one here to ask the same question. Was it a basic instinct shot ?

Yeah, I was unsure about that too............:o
I think she might have been wearing somwthing underneath though.
It was a very quick shot.

It made me think "WTF is a rape scene doing in a bond film?":eek:
and secondly "did they just show a vagina in a film with a 15cert?"

I really liked QOS but.........
1. The ending was a bit of a let down:(, crap fight with Greene
and
2. I couldnt figure out how they found the Algerian guy in Russia

randomchild · 05-11-2008 1:15am

Just got back from it, thought it was fairly solid. Heard it was absolute tosh though so that lowered my expectations. The scenes were they cut between the horse-race/opera and chase scenes pissed me off, but the rest of the opera scene was good. I felt that this film felt a bit like one of those animated mini-series that elaborate on events between two films, like clone wars. Nothing really happens plot-wise, but its still enjoyable when you let go of that.

Oh and that goldfinger throwback was awesome.

wandatowell · 05-11-2008 1:23am

randomchild wrote: »

Just got back from it, thought it was fairly solid

You hit the nail on the head there, solid movie indeed. Thats about it tho.
I really expected a better film (I didnt read any reviews) so it was disappointing in that sence

Tusky · 05-11-2008 1:47am

Considering the reviews, I was pleasantly surprised. Its not amazing but its much better than people had lead me to believe. Some great action set pieces.

humanji · 05-11-2008 10:39am

I saw it last night in Movies@Swords and missed the intro scene because of a black bar across the middle of the screen.

I thought it was pretty good. Not as good as Casino Royale, but still enjoyable. It had a fair few problems though. The English girl (Fields, I think her name was) was atrocious. Terrible acting and terrible dialogue. The film would of been better without her.

The editing was annoying. Bourne-o-vision is getting on my tits. Shaky cameras have been done to death and rarely to good effect. And some sections of the actions scenes were cut out completely. There was one where one of the two fighters (I couldn't tell which because of all the shaking) was on the ground grabbing for a knife or something, when suddenly the two were standing up again. It happened a fair few times and made me think that maybe the film had somehow jumped like a scratched DVD or something.

The plot was also all over the place, and I wasn't fully sure who the bad guy was at times (I kept expecting Mr White to appear). And who the hell makes a hotel out of explosives?

But despite all these things, it wasn't enough to make me dislike the film. I really enjoyed it and can't wait for the Bluray to come out so I can see if the rumours were right and that there are high definition flaps to be seen.

Running Bing · 05-11-2008 8:34pm

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

The cynic in me says that the blink-and-you'll-miss-it fanny shot is in there to drive blu-ray sales. Am I wrong?

If anybody pays 40 quid for a blue ray to see a split second shot of an average looking actresses snatch they really need to be introduced to the internet:D

Im a massive fan of all things bond and while I enjoyed this instalment I felt it had a lot more potential.

The Good:
-Thought Craig really grew into the role and was a lot more comfortable as Bond this time around.
-Title sequence was awesome. Possibly my favourite ever which is saying a lot as I hated the song the first time I seen it.
-Loved the Goldfinger reference.
-Bonds wardrobe was great. Tom Ford did the suits this time around and they really looked razor sharp.
-I thought it looked really beautiful. You could really tell it was made by a more arthouse director.

The Bad
-The fundamental plot is weak. Its not particularly interesting and it doesnt drive the film well imo.
-Probably the most bland bond villain ever. Barely does anything on screen and his evil plan is to control 60% of Bolivia's water and charge the government twice what they normally pay? Terrifying. I know they are trying to make it more realistic but you lose some of that spice and fun when you play it too straight.
-The opening car chase and the rooftop chase in Italy had the potential to be two of the greatest action sequences in any Bond movie. Shame we could'nt see them:rolleyes:
-It just didnt felt like a Bond film. Cant put my finger on what it was exactly but it just didnt feel like Bond.

I think Bond has always had a very spefic tone, Light and amusing but at the same time dark and serious. I get their moving it more to a darker more serious Bond but there still has to be a balance and they did not get that right imo.

Davei141 · 05-11-2008 10:19pm

Loved the film but i agree about the editing and fields, both sucked. Thoroughly enjoyable film though!

Pigman II · 06-11-2008 12:09am

It's a mess of a movie. It suffers from MichaelBayitus in that every moment of QOS is undeniably exciting and and full of honest effort but that none of it seems to hold together to make a coherent whole, the result of which being the enterprise is less than the sum of its parts.

It's just an cascading sequence of "something happens, and then something else happens and then something else etc" until the film is over and you go home mildly entertained but ultimately unsatisfied and not just a little bit confused.

Brian · 07-11-2008 12:18pm

Should "that scene" not have made it an 18 rating?

In general I thought the movie was alright. I was disappointed by the opening car scene when he enters the quarry and you can see miles of hairpins beneath him, then 5 seconds later the pursuers fall off the edge. Apparently Casino Royale is exponentially better, so I'm looking forward to seeing that.

Heisenberg. · 07-11-2008 4:19pm

This post has been deleted.

zuroph · 07-11-2008 4:37pm

The Scientist wrote: »

And another thing, James Bond in love? pfft.
One of my favourite bond scenes is when Sean Connery slaps that chicks arse in Goldfinger and says"Run along Dear, man talk."
Didnt like this notion of Bond avenging the death of the girl he loved bla bla bla.

once more, ITS A REBOOT. this is the story of why James bond finds it hard to love ever again. its referred to many times over the series. and a bad attempt at it is made in her majestys secret service.

but yes, that line is one of my favourite ever

ryoishin · 07-11-2008 4:45pm

what about the american agent felix?

I thought the bit on the plane was way over acted.

zuroph · 07-11-2008 4:52pm

ryoishin wrote: »

what about the american agent felix?

I thought the bit on the plane was way over acted.

what about felix?

ryoishin · 07-11-2008 4:58pm

when you see him on the plane and hios boss thorws him the phone, I thought it was way over acted.

zuroph · 07-11-2008 5:20pm

the moustached guy was quite over the top alright, but i didnt notice much with leiter.

Running Bing · 07-11-2008 5:43pm

ryoishin wrote: »

what about the american agent felix?

I thought the bit on the plane was way over acted.

Agreed and I know Im nitpicking at this stage but was'nt it the most coincidental thing ever that M is sitting in London rings the CIA for information on Dominic Greene and gets forwarded to a plan with Felix Leiter there that Dominic Green is just about to walk onto:eek:

Then there's the fact that Bond is given a cocktail on his plane that happens to be identical to a cocktail he invented a few days beforehand (I assume he didnt order it as he says he doesnt know what it is and asks the barman to describe it. Could be wrong on that)

The Don · 07-11-2008 5:50pm

zuroph wrote: »

Bond went after the guy they had worked out was working for quantum. he kills him. She mistakes bond for him, and has been sent by the boss to pick him up. the boss has arranged for the other guy to kill her. so when bond opens the briefcase he says "apparently i'm meant to kill you". she gets away,

She was trying to get documents from him. He told Greene and Greene told him to kill her. He said it when she went to him after.

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah, I was unsure about that too............:o
I think she might have been wearing somwthing underneath though.
It was a very quick shot.:

I think that she was wearing something aswell.

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Ah I don't know, I saw it as progression of a character. Throughout the film he was letting go of opportunities of gaining information by murdering people. By the end of the film he had learned that that kind of recklessness was not going to aid him as a special agent. He seemingly ceased to let the rage control him.

The film takes place directly after Casino Royale. So both films should be viewed as a whole. This film basically shows his transition to the agent he will become. There were a few moments in the film of the Bond he will become. When he tries to book a flight but his credit card is rejected. He decides to use his charm and get the woman to lie for him. Also in Bolivian hotel he cracks a joke about them being teachers on sebatical who won the lotto. The next film will see Bond back to the one we all know.

On its own its only ok. It was too short for one. They could have filled out with more action/story. Or shown the action that was in it properly and not cut and chopped it so much. On the whole I thought it was good. There are far worse Bond films.

Daniel Craig did a great job. He has really taken to the role.

The CGI was sh*te. The scafolding at the start and the plane and parachute scene.

humanji · 07-11-2008 6:03pm

The Don wrote: »

She was trying to get documents from him. He told Greene and Greene told him to kill her. He said it when she went to him after.

I thought it was that

a geologist found out what Green was up to and was going to give the information to the hot chick who was Bolivian Intelligence, (but also on a personal vendetta to kill the general). She had no idea what the geologist looked like and when Green found out what was happening he hired a hitman to kill her. Bond kills the hitman, not realising who he was (I think he thought he was the geologist) and when he goes down to the girl, she thinks that Bond is the geologist.

When the girl goes back to Green he shows her the real geologist's body in the water.

senordingdong · 07-11-2008 11:27pm

humanji wrote: »

I thought it was that
a geologist found out what Green was up to and was going to give the information to the hot chick who was Bolivian Intelligence, (but also on a personal vendetta to kill the general). She had no idea what the geologist looked like and when Green found out what was happening he hired a hitman to kill her. Bond kills the hitman, not realising who he was (I think he thought he was the geologist) and when he goes down to the girl, she thinks that Bond is the geologist.

When the girl goes back to Green he shows her the real geologist's body in the water.

Good work Humanji.

But that fact that this would have gone un-noticed is a serioes problem for editing team.

Brian · 07-11-2008 11:33pm

Ah, that makes sense now. Wasn't clear in the movie though, I was like wtf who is this dude in the water?

Dave! · 08-11-2008 10:46am

Have to wonder what purpose the minge shot served! They spent the whole movie not swearing, and then at the end clearly show a vagina :eek:

Our man in Havana · 08-11-2008 12:44pm

If there was a real minge shot it would have never passed for 12A.

Dave! · 08-11-2008 1:00pm

Well everyone seems to have seen one, so if there was no minge then there was some serious camera tricks goin on! :eek:

MooseJam · 08-11-2008 2:39pm

O yea, on the plane the cocktail Bond is drinking is a double vodka, a double something else and then something else, 5 shots in one glass and the barman says he's had 6 of them, THIRTY shots, and not a bother on him lol

Guy:Incognito · 08-11-2008 4:01pm

Babybing wrote: »

If anybody pays 40 quid for a blue ray to see a split second shot of an average looking actresses snatch they really need to be introduced to the internet:D
.

If anyone pays €40 for a movie on BD they need need to be introduced to a doctor.

There are brand new films on DB in bricks and mortar shops for under €25.

The Scientist wrote: »

I was pretty pissed off that they insinuated an Alfa could keep up with a Aston Martin tbh.
.

The AM is about 2 secs quicker 0-60 and tops out about 20mph faster (not that they got anywhere near tiop speed) than a 3.2 159.

back OT I really enjoyed the film (went to see it last night). I just went in to be entertained by an action movie (I dont over think these things in the slightest) and left feel I got value for my money. Very enjoyable.

Really like Craig as Bond too, he's making the role his own.

zuroph · 08-11-2008 7:30pm

i was thinking today,maybe the "minge shot" wasnt a minge shot.

MAYBE, its put in to show she DOES still have knickers on underneath, to change the tone from a "rape scene" to an "assault scene", and therefore keep the rating down with the censors???

Heisenberg. · 08-11-2008 8:24pm

This post has been deleted.

jasonb · 08-11-2008 11:13pm

humanji wrote: »

I thought it was that
a geologist found out what Green was up to and was going to give the information to the hot chick who was Bolivian Intelligence, (but also on a personal vendetta to kill the general). She had no idea what the geologist looked like and when Green found out what was happening he hired a hitman to kill her. Bond kills the hitman, not realising who he was (I think he thought he was the geologist) and when he goes down to the girl, she thinks that Bond is the geologist.

When the girl goes back to Green he shows her the real geologist's body in the water.

Ah, thank god, I've been trying to figure out who the feck was that guy in the water? I was thinking, did they get the guy that Bond killed and then put him in the sea, and if so, why?

But, as senordingdong says, the fact that it's not easy to follow shows it wasn't explained very well. I'm not saying we have to be taken by the hand and have every plot point spelled out, but this confused me a lot I have to say. As did trying to figure out what he did with the hook that wrecked the other boat, and what he did with the plane to destroy the other plane ( go too slow maybe? ). Though, in those cases, maybe I was just too close to the screen to see it well.

I did enjoy the movie, and I definitely think watching CR and QoS ( maybe even a director's cut of QoS if it comes out ) back to back is the best way to see both films. Looking forward to the next one, as several people have said, it should be more of a standalone film, with Bond more like Bond ( if that makes sense ) and the threat of Quantum still out there ( and maybe Mr. White too? ). We don't actually know yet who Quantum's Leader is ( if there is one ), and if he has a white cat. It definitely isn't Greene, as he was shot & killed by someone else, presumably under orders from Quantum.

By the way, for someone who posted a while ago that Bond should take out Greene without any problems, as he's a trained killer etc., I read somewhere that the whole point of the fight is that Greene was fighting like a scared angry man, not like a professional, and that's not as predictable in a fight. Or something like that anyhow!

J.

Brian · 08-11-2008 11:50pm

Did anyone think it was a bit strange that Bond didn't object to M saying that he shot the bodyguard dude that he actually just pushed off the roof? I guess he didn't really care.

She Devil · 09-11-2008 1:16am

Baza210 wrote: »

Did anyone think it was a bit strange that Bond didn't object to M saying that he shot the bodyguard dude that he actually just pushed off the roof? I guess he didn't really care.

Yeah Me, I said a little loudly ... but you didnt kill him ... you pushed him he was fine, tell her

jasonb · 09-11-2008 11:48am

And yet another question! Why did Bond ask Mathis if that was his cover name or real name, and then joke that it wasn't a good cover name. Why isn't Mathis a good cover name?

J.

The Don · 09-11-2008 4:34pm

humanji wrote: »

I thought it was that
a geologist found out what Green was up to and was going to give the information to the hot chick who was Bolivian Intelligence, (but also on a personal vendetta to kill the general). She had no idea what the geologist looked like and when Green found out what was happening he hired a hitman to kill her. Bond kills the hitman, not realising who he was (I think he thought he was the geologist) and when he goes down to the girl, she thinks that Bond is the geologist.

When the girl goes back to Green he shows her the real geologist's body in the water.

That sounds right.

zuroph wrote: »

i was thinking today,maybe the "minge shot" wasnt a minge shot.

MAYBE, its put in to show she DOES still have knickers on underneath, to change the tone from a "rape scene" to an "assault scene", and therefore keep the rating down with the censors???

I still think she was wearing something.

No_Deal · 10-11-2008 9:41am

make your own minds up.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/2tit2z

Running Bing · 10-11-2008 10:03am

No_Deal wrote: »

make your own minds up.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/2tit2z

At the end of the day you can debate what it looks like all you want but the implication is very very clear.

The girl is in the process of being raped and the shot dwells on that area. Its not appropriate for a 12A film and its not appropriate for a Bond film imo.

humanji · 10-11-2008 10:24am

Babybing wrote: »

At the end of the day you can debate what it looks like all you want but the implication is very very clear.

The girl is in the process of being raped and the shot dwells on that area. Its not appropriate for a 12A film and its not appropriate for a Bond film imo.

I'd say most people didn't know about it until they were told. It's not like they were drawing attention to it.

I also find it funny that rape and murder are grand for a 12A movie, but pointing in the direction of a vagina is a big no-no. :pac:

Bond 22 - Quantum of Solace

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