New Worldwide Handicap System

prawnsambo wrote: »

This one is probably badly needed. I've been talking to golfers who's courses have shut down recently (in the last year or so) and pretty much all of them have been at least two or three shots off the pace at their new clubs. In a negative sense. Under the current system, unless they get an end of year adjustment (and that's not guaranteed), they could be a couple of years getting themselves and their handicaps to align.

I know in my own club, we've had members in and out from other clubs and one I spoke to said they left because they just couldn't get competitive. It's a tough track alright and would be depressing coming in with points in the mid to high twenties all the time.

And of course the opposite is also true.

When I was joining my current club a couple of years ago, we had to meet with a member of the committee, who also happened to be one of the founding members. He made it pretty clear at the start that it would take at least a year to properly start to find my way round the place & get competitive.

I thought it was a good, fair & reasonable statement to make. I don't get that guys should expect to walk into a new club & be automatically able to start winning competitions.

OK, I get that it might be frustrating if you can't ever break 30 points, so maybe its exceptional, but I still think that we have issues with some people thinking shooting 36 points should be their average score

Flexibility in formats of play, allowing both competitive and recreational rounds to count for handicap purposes and ensuring a golfer’s handicap is more reflective of potential ability

The only way I see this working is if casual rounds could only decrease your handicap and not increase it. If you're playing off 10, then it means you have the potential to play to 10, even after a bad run of play or a bad season. If you improve drastically, by all means let casual rounds cut your handicap if you want. But don't allow casual rounds to increase handicap.

prawnsambo wrote: »

It's a factor of coming from a course that's easier to play to one that's quite tough. It's kind of accepted that you will only play to your handicap in a competitive round a handful of times a year. You might be in the buffer zone half the time and not breaking thirty for the rest. But I'm talking about guys off the pace completely. Never within a shout of hitting their handicap and as much as three shots off it on their very best days.

That's what these guys are telling me when they leave. I took the trouble to ask them because it's always a disappointment when it happens.

A system that evens out the hills and troughs has to be better imo.

I experienced this in Tara, my new course I've yet to shoot below 34 and that was a bad day all round.

I like the idea of slope rating, it makes sense that Ardee will play a few shots easier than a card wrecker like corballis can be.

If you had to sign in/declare before the round you were using it as a hc round it would make sense but still open to abuse.

the long lad wrote: »

Not a bad idea, but what about people who like to artificially lower their handicap? IMO it's a bigger problem now than the bandits, since only 10 .1s back per year are allowed. I've seen heaps of instances of low guys not handing in cards.

I was a fan of the australian system when I was there, but since coming home I much prefer what we've got. The changes will be huge for all of the team competitions and championships. Most people's handicap will lower as a result of taking their best 8 from 20 rounds. We'll have an abundance of scratch golfers.

These two points exactly. There seems to be a view that a vanity handicap (ie too low) is somehow not as bad as a bandit. But what about the good player off 2 who can't get into a championship because a heap of scratch guys who never return cards are entered ?

Yeah, I think the rule of thumb when comparing the US and CONGU systems was that the CONGU handicap was about 2 or 3 shots higher than a USGA handicap. There are numerous threads on Golfwrx comparing/contrasting both and that seems to be the general consensus, broadly speaking. ie a CONGU 9 handicap would likely be a 6/7 in the US.

There are 6 worldwide bodies governing handicaps. I think apart from CONGU, the rest of them are all quite similar to each other. I think people are confusing the GUI here with CONGU, as my reading is that it will be CONGU administering the local rules.

I like the CONGU rules for obvious reasons, but I'm happy to give the benefit of the doubt to the new system. Particularily when I read things like "factoring in memory of demonstrated ability for better responsiveness and control”. I'm sure it will come out in the wash what that is actually supposed to mean, but my guess is it means that there will be certain restrictions in place and we are unlikely to be able to jump handicaps by submitting a few poor scores.

The fact is Americans play mostly casual golf and I'm not really sure what the rest of the world do, but I think it is mostly the same.

We play mostly competitons.

Nothing I've read suggests that either situation has to or indeed is likely to change, all it means is that if you play a casual round, it should count and I've no quams with that. Obviously it stands to bring its flaws, such gimmes.

regarding managing the handicaps, i dont see why it cant be done through computers, play your round, pump your score into the computer and stick your card in the box, just like you do for any comp. algorithms can be run in the background to do all the necessary checks agains historical scores etc.

people will always be out there who try and cheat the system and no matter what you do, they will still be there. most of us are honorable and we really cant legislate for the cheats.

i play off 11, my best handicap ever. ive been a member in greystones for almost 30 years. twice i have shot +10 as my best score around the course. only twice in 30 years! however i am now also a member in castleknock and last year i shot a +5, +6 & a +9 (along with a lot of other terrible scores :rolleyes:) I've had similar scores over the years on other courses (not a lot of them, but a few). But i cant play to 11 in greystones or anywhere near it, ever. Point being, not all courses are equal and while your handicap might be 11 on one track, it could be quite easily a 14 on another or possibly an 8 on another.

So bring in a slope index for golf courses is a really brilliant idea, and something that makes sense. The weather thing is something I think we already have here with CSS but the yanks dont have that when they are playing casual golf. it will be interesting to see how that is rolled out for casulal golf.

Solutions will be established to finda a happy medium for a interclub comps.

I would like to see handicap categories unified though. Intermediate might be 10-18 at one club and 12-17 in the next and that is just silly. sure clubs can have their own divisions when it comes to in house club comps based on their membership criteria.

lastly, distances. while they are at all these changes, i wish they would decide that all courses need to represent the same distances, some courses its yards, some meteres, some to the front, some to the middle. some have blue flags for pin at back and some have yellow, some have red flags to the middle and some have red flags at the front. how easy would it be to make a change to have all this kinds of stuff unified at every course around the county or even world for that matter.

Congratulations to the 2022 all ireland Pierce Purcell winners XXXXX club for completing a most extraordinary double after having been the all Ireland Senior cup winners the year previous with the exact same group of players....

doublecross wrote: »

Came across this article about the winner of the pebble beach pro-am. His handicap jumped from 6 to 12 in two months. Fun times ahead, I'll be able to play junior and minor scratch cups in the same year

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/larry-fitzgerald-won-the-pebble-beach-pro-am-by-so-much-that-people-are-questioning-his-handicap

I'm not so sure.

The is a new worldwide handicapping system. Sure it is based on the USGA System, but also takes elements from the other hanciappping authorities such as CONGU and there are 4 others I believe.

In fact I think CONGU is pretty much odd one out when it comes to handicapps as most of them do base it on last 20 rounds.

So it wont just be a case of us ditching the CONGU System and using the American one, but rather a mix of the best each system has to offer.

That is my reading of it anyway. Unfortunately it seems that actual details of how the system is set to work are rather sketchy and I have seen no actual info on how to calculate handicaps with the new proposed worldwide system.

I live in hope.... :P

Seve OB wrote: »

Did anyone apply to join a course raters team?

applications close today

where/how can I apply for this?

Bumping this thread as there is now a bit more information coming out about this.

New website is supposedly launched, but showing nothing more than a white screen now for me https://www.whs.com/

It appears that CONGU (GB&I) will not be ready to implement this on 1 January 2019 along with the rest of the world, but it could be late in the year. I have read November, an odd time if you ask me. It begs the question, will we now have qualifying comps all year round?

My understanding is that it will be "based" on the USGA Handicapping system. "Based" IMO means that it will be tweaked somewhat and a of yet I haven't seen definitive guidelines as to how it will be operated.

However, reading the USGA system, it looks very complex so I would hope they simplify it.

Some good info on this page and the links it highlights

Below is my understanding after reading that.

(Score - Course Rating) x 113 / Slope Rating**

*Course rating is calculated using 50 scores of scratch golfers.
***Slope rating is calculated using scores of "bogey golfers"

Calculate the above formula for last 20 rounds. Take average of best 8.

USA's multiplier is 0.96 of this average. Could be different for us in future.

This is going to be a struggle. I play with teen handicappers who don't understand what a buffer is or what category they are.

Often if they are not at 17/18 points after 9, "the card is gone" then they don't try for buffer!

Deleted User wrote: »

According the this article under the new WHS a golfer can get a max of 5 shots back a year.

https://www.nationalclubgolfer.com/news/global-golf-handicap-system-stops-cheats/

We moved from a max of 2 shots back per year to a max of 1. How is allowing 5 shots per year going to help with banditry. Especially if they allow casual rounds to be included.

Reading the workings in that article makes my head hurt !!:)
I'm guessing that potentially everyone's handicap will be a lot more fluid than under the current system. I dunno, ultimately you can't really stop someone gaming the system if they're determined to, but how many people will go to the effort of playing 20 rounds where their best 8 are bad enough to give a big increase ? I'd say it'll stop the more casual "bandit" who doesn't mind his handicap going up but doesn't go to a huge effort to make it happen. It'll be interesting to see how it works out in GUI land.......

If this comes in then it will be the end of competition golf, which will be a big loss in revenue for most clubs.

redzerdrog wrote: »

Bit dramatic

Maybe, but I'm not going to travel to a junior scratch cup or open knowing other players are potentially getting additional 5 shots. Someone jumping from 5 to 10. Seems crazy.
I only play comps for my handicap, don't care about prizes. Why would I pay comp fee when I can lower my handicap playing casual golf. I suppose some other golfers are all about prizes and are happy to get 5 shots back.