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Brexit discussion thread VIII (Please read OP before posting)

1145146148150151194

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,102 ✭✭✭am i bovvered


    One interesting and positive Barnier comment from todays meeting. Just paraphrasing but he said something like this. "In a hard Brexit, the EU won't do any business with the UK until the Border and the GFA are protected."

    Makes the Brexitier phrase ‘they need us more than we need them’ sound even more deluded.

    The whole thing is a complete disaster with absolutely no winners.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,070 ✭✭✭boggerman1



    All the headbangers abandoning ship now.wouldn't mind that lad too much given that a few months ago that Britain had got screwd after ww2.i wonder if marc of the territorial army fame's letter today was peak brexiteer hot air and that come Friday brexit is cancelled


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,123 ✭✭✭✭Gael23


    How Teresa May is still in power is beyond me, she was burnt toast long ago.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,806 ✭✭✭An Ciarraioch


    Ironically, UKIP and the Brexit Party could wind up stopping each other getting MEPs, if this Welsh poll is representative:

    http://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1115320751459057664


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Gael23 wrote: »
    How Teresa May is still in power is beyond me, she was burnt toast long ago.
    If there was someone even semi competent in opposition they would have wiped the floor with May and the Tories by now. Corbyn is less of an opposition and more of a complicit facilitator.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,472 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Gael23 wrote: »
    How Teresa May is still in power is beyond me, she was burnt toast long ago.

    Because the task she has is so impossible and unsolvable that no one in their right minds would want it at this point and time. Replacing her doesn’t solve a thing


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,536 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Ironically, UKIP and the Brexit Party could wind up stopping each other getting MEPs, if this Welsh poll is representative:

    They have up to ten member constituencies, where that'd return one each (albeit said constituency had 4 UKIP last time I think). Not many constituencies are as small as Wales.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,630 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Nice Guy


    Amusing opener from Newsnight. Not sure it helps the political atmosphere in the UK though.

    https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1115367558541004800


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,472 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Just tuned into Claire Byrne show- first off bloody Hermann Irexit Kelly running for the EU parliament- the parliament he wants us out of lol. Our very own euro shop Farage


  • Registered Users Posts: 671 ✭✭✭WhiteMan32


    "TM to consider giving MPs vote on second referendum" - too good to be true?

    Read more


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,876 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,472 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Gintonious wrote: »

    Mairead Mcguinness is always a solid reliable performer. A definite asset in all this and voice of sanity for ireland in Europe


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,535 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    road_high wrote: »
    Just tuned into Claire Byrne show- first off bloody Hermann Irexit Kelly running for the EU parliament- the parliament he wants us out of lol. Our very own euro shop Farage

    The UKIP/Brexit party guy made me especially angry. "Michel Barnier is using the years and years of pain in Ireland as a negotiating chip". Has he no self awareness about being an Englishman talking to an Irish audience about years and years of pain? As for Ireland being used as a negotiating chip, that was Britains plan until they went all in on their first hand and lost their shirts, to extend the analogy.

    Also liked Mairead McGuinness saying if the Brexiteers were in power, for all their talk, theyd run a mile. A point rarely made on BBC, Sky etc.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 54,621 ✭✭✭✭Headshot


    Go wan Guy

    Irish common sense in UK politics


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,417 ✭✭✭WinnyThePoo


    road_high wrote: »
    Just tuned into Claire Byrne show- first off bloody Hermann Irexit Kelly running for the EU parliament- the parliament he wants us out of lol. Our very own euro shop Farage
    By God I hope he miserably fails. Hopefully the electorate see through him. It would be an absolute waste to vote him In.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,472 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    By God I hope he miserably fails. Hopefully the electorate see through him. It would be an absolute waste to vote him In.

    There’ll always be a certain audience for associated looney tune candidates with various anti establishment agendas.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,472 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    That Nathan Gill is a shocking arrogant twat.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,472 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    road_high wrote: »
    That Nathan Gill is a shocking arrogant twat.

    And the said twat is going to run again...dear Christ they hate it so much they want to run again and again. Arseholes like him make me want a No Deal push out


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 54,621 ✭✭✭✭Headshot


    I always find SNP come across very well and can understand why they are very popular in Scotland. They seem to be only capable MP's in Westminster and i'm a big fan Nicola Sturgeon.

    Brexit is kinda a win win situation for them, that if it happens Scottish Independence is closer than ever or if Brexit is canceled they stay in Europe.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,151 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    road_high wrote: »
    That Nathan Gill is a shocking arrogant twat.

    These twerps regularly heckle Donald Tusk and Michel Barnier in the European Parliament along with their messiah Farage. They're a bunch of vandals.


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  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,535 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    road_high wrote: »
    That Nathan Gill is a shocking arrogant twat.
    road_high wrote: »
    And the said twat is going to run again...dear Christ they hate it so much they want to run again and again. Arseholes like him make me want a No Deal push out

    Mod note:

    Youve been warned about this type of contriubtion a number of times. If you cant make your points without curse words then maybe the politics forum isnt for you


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,758 ✭✭✭Laois_Man


    Strazdas wrote: »
    These twerps regularly heckle Donald Tusk and Michel Barnier in the European Parliament along with their messiah Farage. They're a bunch of vandals.

    Farage barely even shows up. He has the 6th worst attendance record of all MEPs in the entire EU parliament


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,151 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Laois_Man wrote: »
    Farage barely even shows up. He has the 6th worst attendance record of all MEPs in the entire EU parliament

    He's scarcely a "politician" at all. I would describe him more as a TV / media personality.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,379 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Strazdas wrote: »
    He's scarcely a "politician" at all. I would describe him more as a TV / media personality.

    As a politician, Farage is a triumph of style over substance. Or, to put it another way, he's all fur coat and no knickers. And so he plays beautifully to the great unwashed.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,758 ✭✭✭Laois_Man


    Strazdas wrote: »
    He's scarcely a "politician" at all. I would describe him more as a TV / media personality.

    Plus trying to cheat the abhorrent EU out of money by trying to get the EU to pay for his EU assistant who is not actually an EU assistant!

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jan/12/nigel-farage-eu-salary-docked-claim-misspent-public-funds

    Says it all about him!

    I listened to some of his radio show this evening (I don't know why I do it to myself) - they font let many remainers on - and you'd notice when the odd one does get on, they don't get to stay on nearly as long as the Leavers.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,217 ✭✭✭✭briany


    It's funny how the right wing of the British press and public have really taken to calling Jeremy Corbyn a Marxist, and therefore should not be trusted with Brexit. The tone they say it with makes it sound like Marxist = convicted criminal. Also, using it to describe Jeremy Corbyn is direct evidence that they're either being provocative, haven't read Marx, or even googled the term. Not that those wont to call Corbyn a Marxist care about such subtleties.

    Meanwhile the actual reason not to trust Corbyn on Brexit is that he is stubbornly playing party politics as much as the other crowd and has so far failed to hold the process to account.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,573 ✭✭✭Infini


    road_high wrote: »
    Just tuned into Claire Byrne show- first off bloody Hermann Irexit Kelly running for the EU parliament- the parliament he wants us out of lol. Our very own euro shop Farage

    Honestly this whole "Irexit" thing stink's of a 5th column subversive group of either Brexiteer rejects from the UK trying to interfere in our country (POORLY) to try and bolster their United Memedom vanity project or possibly another paid Russian front to try and break up the EU. Hopefully it burns out like the likes of Renua: all waffle but ultimately a big massive turd in terms of quality only fit for the electorial bin.
    Ironically, UKIP and the Brexit Party could wind up stopping each other getting MEPs, if this Welsh poll is representative:

    http://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1115320751459057664


    If it result's in Nigel Farage not getting elected then happy days and poetic karma for it happening. Need people who give a damn bout their country and people in there not parasitical rejects out for their own benefit and causing nothing but trouble while stirring the pot.
    The UKIP/Brexit party guy made me especially angry. "Michel Barnier is using the years and years of pain in Ireland as a negotiating chip". Has he no self awareness about being an Englishman talking to an Irish audience about years and years of pain? As for Ireland being used as a negotiating chip, that was Britains plan until they went all in on their first hand and lost their shirts, to extend the analogy.

    Also liked Mairead McGuinness saying if the Brexiteers were in power, for all their talk, theyd run a mile. A point rarely made on BBC, Sky etc.

    It the problem with the UK media over there atm they let these Brexiteer wasters constantly run their mouths unchallenged and unwilling to call out the gaping flaws in their arguments. That Mairead McGuiness outtake is the exact kind of putting them on the spot approach that's needed with them, she literally points out their "no deal" is a literal void of nothingness and any deal's they do get are either inconsequencial and tiny or they have to wait at the back of the line after the EU and take what they're given.

    The whole problem the Brexiteer's have is that they cannot accept that alone they're not only powerless but subject to the whim's of bigger players. They fail to grap reality or worse would rather mislead people for personal gain.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,015 ✭✭✭10000maniacs


    As a politician, Farage is a triumph of style over substance. Or, to put it another way, he's all fur coat and no knickers. And so he plays beautifully to the great unwashed.

    The EU are hinting that Farage and co. won't be given the same free reign to disrupt the Parliament that they were given in the last session.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,676 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    The EU are hinting that Farage and co. won't be given the same free reign to disrupt the Parliament that they were given in the last session.
    He wasn't that disruptive. He was hardly ever there.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,457 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    The EU are hinting that Farage and co. won't be given the same free reign to disrupt the Parliament that they were given in the last session.

    And how would they achieve that exactly?

    It's a Parliament and he would be an elected representative. They can't start getting into anything murky like censorship as that will be just grist to the mill of Brexiteers and anti EU factions across Europe.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,151 ✭✭✭✭josip


    I find it amusing that today May has finally done what David Davis said they should do initially and gone to Berlin.
    Except that she has gone begging, not demanding.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,375 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    It's funny reading the comments on here about Claire Byrne's show. People correctly assessing her as not quite up to the job of pinning down lies - she'll usually give them a free second bite after a challenge. But any comments from the other side of the water are usually along the lines of "Why can't the BBC etc. challenge the lies like she does". We obviously set and expect far higher standards here. :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,085 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    Just to return to the question of the EP elections with and without the UK.

    I will use numbers that demonstrate the problem, so bear with me. The constituency has three seats with the UK but four without them.

    Let us say we have a three/four seater constituency with 10 or more candidates, but we will only look at the first five candidates and assume transfers from lower ordered candidates does not affect the final running order.

    Now candidates A and E are one party, and B and D are another, which means surpluses transfer within the party 100%.

    So first count has A=25%, B=22%, C=12%, D=11%, and E=10%.

    Now with three seats, the quota is 25% and A, B, C all get elected.

    However, with four seats, the quota is 20%, so A and B are elected on the first count. Their surpluses are redistributed so E gets an extra 5% bringing the vote to 15%. D gets B's surplus bring the vote to 12%.

    So the final count is: A elected, B elected, with E on 15% - elected, D on 12% - elected, with C with 11% - eliminated.

    So three seater gets A, B, C. For seater gets A, B, E, and D elected.

    So the conundrum is what happens if the UK gets an extension till say April next year and then leaves. Does MEP C clear their desk in favour of MEP D and MEP E?

    I have chosen numbers to show how this can happen, but anyone with experience will remember close fights for the last seat, with recounts changing the result. Often it depends on the order of elimination.

    Varadkar outlined that 2 counts will take place for both scenarios.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,788 ✭✭✭Enzokk


    Andrea Leadsom has a plan for the PM when she meets with Merkel later,

    https://twitter.com/GregHeffer/status/1115521768268161024

    https://twitter.com/GregHeffer/status/1115521837646139392

    So the plan is to open the withdrawal agreement, I can see that succeeding this time as we are at EU concession time.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,379 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Enzokk wrote: »
    Andrea Leadsom has a plan for the PM when she meets with Merkel later,

    https://twitter.com/GregHeffer/status/1115521768268161024

    https://twitter.com/GregHeffer/status/1115521837646139392

    So the plan is to open the withdrawal agreement, I can see that succeeding this time as we are at EU concession time.

    The EU to blink and Ireland to be thrown under the bus in 3...2...1...


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Enzokk wrote: »
    Andrea Leadsom has a plan for the PM when she meets with Merkel later,

    https://twitter.com/GregHeffer/status/1115521768268161024

    https://twitter.com/GregHeffer/status/1115521837646139392

    So the plan is to open the withdrawal agreement, I can see that succeeding this time as we are at EU concession time.

    These "rumours" have always been baseless I see no reason to think they aren't baseless now.

    It most definitely wont happen unless it's to renegotiate without some of her contradictory red lines .


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,182 ✭✭✭demfad


    One interesting and positive Barnier comment from todays meeting. Just paraphrasing but he said something like this. "In a hard Brexit, the EU won't do any business with the UK until the Border and the GFA are protected."

    Barnier: "Do you choose the Backstop or No Deal Death!"

    Brexiteers: "Monsieur Barnier, We would rather choose Death!!"

    Barnier: "Death it is then......with Backstop!"


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,240 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Enzokk wrote: »
    Andrea Leadsom has a plan for the PM when she meets with Merkel later,

    https://twitter.com/GregHeffer/status/1115521768268161024

    https://twitter.com/GregHeffer/status/1115521837646139392

    So the plan is to open the withdrawal agreement, I can see that succeeding this time as we are at EU concession time.

    I think those rumours originated from the Brexiters themselves, such as this one
    https://twitter.com/GregHands/status/1115317453851111424


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,457 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Hurrache wrote: »
    I think those rumours originated from the Brexiters themselves, such as this one
    https://twitter.com/GregHands/status/1115317453851111424

    as per usual he's being taking apart in the replies but the replies never get the same billing as the headline tweet...

    it'll be a case of the tweet going twice around the planet before anyone reads a rebuttal..

    not that Brexiteers would be bothered reading or absorbing a rebuttal anyway


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,103 ✭✭✭Mr.Wemmick


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    It's funny reading the comments on here about Claire Byrne's show. People correctly assessing her as not quite up to the job of pinning down lies - she'll usually give them a free second bite after a challenge. But any comments from the other side of the water are usually along the lines of "Why can't the BBC etc. challenge the lies like she does". We obviously set and expect far higher standards here. :)

    They're establishment cowed in the UK and it's endemic. Even the Guardian goes gently, gently.. and it's always been like that. In the 90s I remember getting a bee in my bonnet about something and the shrugging-off people did, and continue to do, in response was/is quite staggering.

    The French say something similar about the english: get treated like crap and then roll over and to have their tummies tickled.

    We Irish say it as it is - honest, open critiques and we queried/question things on all levels. In the UK I am considered a complete pain in the ar$e.. until they want something done and then it's a different story.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,379 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Having threatened to disrupt the smooth functioning of the EU by continuously vetoing everything until the UK leaves, Jacob is now proclaiming that any agreement that May makes with the EU today can be unpicked by the next government. While simultaneously calling the EU liars. Good man Jacob.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,240 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Having threatened to disrupt the smooth functioning of the EU by continuously vetoing everything until the UK leaves, Jacob is now proclaiming that any agreement that May makes with the EU today can be unpicked by the next government. While simultaneously calling the EU liars. Good man Jacob.

    It's been the mood music of late, that future government over there can't be beholden by agreements from previous governments. The simple fact it'll be an international treaty of some sort escapes them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,676 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Enzokk wrote: »
    Andrea Leadsom has a plan for the PM when she meets with Merkel later,

    https://twitter.com/GregHeffer/status/1115521768268161024

    https://twitter.com/GregHeffer/status/1115521837646139392

    So the plan is to open the withdrawal agreement, I can see that succeeding this time as we are at EU concession time.
    Every time, Enzokk! You fall for this one every time!

    Seriously, lift your game! :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Hurrache wrote: »
    It's been the mood music of late, that future government over there can't be beholden by agreements from previous governments. The simple fact it'll be an international treaty of some sort escapes them.
    So having Brexited, the next UK government will have to declare their intention to exit from the Withdrawal Agreement. This will require a two-year notification period during which time the backstop may be in force, and the UK and EU will have to negotiate a new Withdrawal Agreement from the Withdrawal Agreement, which we can call WA² I guess.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,375 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Some brexiters have left the reservation completely. Apparently it's all the Queen's fault now.

    The replies are gold though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,935 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    The UK hard brexiteers seem to not be able to read the subtle signs of where opinions lie. Macron and Merkel meeting Varadkar recently, specifically with the effort that went in to Merkel meeting border region people and Barnier travelling to Ireland once again is all happening to bolster the impression of the EU standing with Ireland.

    It is a choreographed political dance which seems to be completely wasted on many in the UK, hence the likes of Leadsom's comments above.

    There are going to be fascinating documentaries and books written about all of this, and we still don't know what the ending is going to be.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,457 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    Some brexiters have left the reservation completely. Apparently it's all the Queen's fault now.

    The replies are gold though.

    these lads seem determined to delegitimize every British insitution

    The crown, parliament, the judiciary etc etc

    nothing is beyond sacrifice at the Brexit altar


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,753 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    I knew it would happen in the end, they have gone after everything else, but finally the Brexiteers now want rid of the queen, or to give the queen unilateral powers over parliament. TBH I'm not really sure what he actually wants.

    https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/1115521530480463872

    So, the Monarchy can be added to the list of things the Brexiteers want to change about the UK.

    GFA
    House Of Lords
    Judical system
    Parliament
    PM
    Civil Servants
    EU (naturally)
    Ireland
    France
    Germany
    Media


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    He's really annoyed that an unelected politician whose position is awarded through bloodlines, hasn't massively overreached her legal powers to save the UK from elected foreign politicians who are trying to prevent the UK from shooting its own economy in the face.

    So he's calling for the replacement of said politician with "something new", clearly unaware of the irony that without this politician there is no "K" in "UK".

    It comes across no more coherent than the ramblings of a vagrant handing out conspiracy theory newsletters in Hyde Park and shouting about mind control and lizards.

    Or that guy who believes he's the real Taoiseach of Ireland because he performs some ancient Celtic ritual every year which the Government neglects to do.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,753 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    So what are peoples thoughts on the EU meeting outcome on Wednesday? Will the EU grant a further extension? Will there be amendments to the WA to water down the backstop and thus give it room to pass?

    Is the flextentsion idea a runner(seems crazy to me)?

    Or will the EU slam the door shut and tell the UK to come back with at least a bottle of wine before they can come into the party?


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