Marriage: is it worth it?

Stan27 · 12-01-2021 2:03pm #1

Is it worth it anymore?
Looking at it from mans point of view, but is there any real benefit for it, which is essentially an expensive party.
I know if things go bad and divorce happens, the men seem to get the bad end of the stick.
Obviously there are are a good lot of great marriages out there so it still suits a lot of people.

Just curious of people’s opinions ?

Castlecomer · 12-01-2021 2:06pm

There's no right or wrong answer to this question. It's a matter of individual preference.
You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't.

Cienciano · 12-01-2021 2:08pm

It's only as expensive as you make it. Worth it to shut her up about getting married

ThewhiteJesus · 12-01-2021 2:10pm

For a man there’s no point imo

Church on Tuesday · 12-01-2021 2:12pm

Stan27 wrote: »

Is it worth it anymore?
Looking at it from mans point of view, but is there any real benefit for it, which is essentially an expensive party.
I know if things go bad and divorce happens, the men seem to get the bad end of the stick.
Obviously there are are a good lot of great marriages out there so it still suits a lot of people.

Just curious of people’s opinions ?

This is why you get a pre nup.

The chan chan man · 12-01-2021 2:12pm

I’ve been happily married for about 2 years.

We’ve been married for the past 8.

listermint · 12-01-2021 2:12pm

Marriage isn't for people who ask marriage advice on after hours of boards.

Best off with the single life OP

topdecko · 12-01-2021 2:15pm

Definitely worth it financially and especially if you have kids together.
Massive ballache trying to organise anything and multiple issues re: CGT/ deposits etc if you are trying to buy house together.
Ireland is very pro marriage in terms of tax setup.

Is still an important institution i think.

Hodors Appletart · 12-01-2021 2:15pm

Cienciano wrote: »

It's only as expensive as you make it.

This

We got married, has a meal for 40 people and a party for 150, for less than five large.

It was an immense day

We had no religious overtones, just a legal marriage in a building not a registry office, then had the meal and party there.

Felt good to affirm my commitment to my wife in front on friends and family, and for her to do the same thing.

Making those promises in front of everyone had a profound effect on me, and on my view of my relationship with my wife. We already lived together and we were already trying for a child (2 x miscarriages before the wedding), but it definitely felt more solid.

Will that be the same for everyone - absolutely not. But that's my experience.

Stan27 · 12-01-2021 2:17pm

Are they any good in Ireland (pre nups)

SouthWesterly · 12-01-2021 2:18pm

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

This is why you get a pre nup.

They are as valuable as the paper written on

the purple tin · 12-01-2021 2:18pm

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

This is why you get a pre nup.

Not in this country you don't.

eviltwin · 12-01-2021 2:21pm

My wedding cost less than a grand including honeymoon so it doesn’t have to be expensive.

Personally I could have taken or left it. I don’t see a point on it beyond individual preferences and some people are religious so that might play a part. We did it for legal reasons mainly inheritance tax purposes so from that point of view it was well worth it. Mind you I’m in a happy relationship so it’s easy to think that. I don’t think I could afford to get divorced.

feelings · 12-01-2021 2:21pm

If things ever go tits up in your marriage, the law here still favours women. Especially if there are kids involved. Husbands/fathers always appear to get a raw deal.

eviltwin · 12-01-2021 2:23pm

feelings wrote: »

If things ever go tits up in your marriage, the law here still favours women. Especially if there are kids involved. Husbands/fathers always appear to get a raw deal.

Is that really down to the marriage though? Presumably if you settle down with someone and have a family but don’t marry you are in a worse off position.

One eyed Jack · 12-01-2021 2:23pm

Stan27 wrote: »

Is it worth it anymore?
Looking at it from mans point of view, but is there any real benefit for it, which is essentially an expensive party.
I know if things go bad and divorce happens, the men seem to get the bad end of the stick.
Obviously there are are a good lot of great marriages out there so it still suits a lot of people.

Just curious of people’s opinions ?

An expensive party? You sure that’s not the wedding you’re referring to? Marriage is the relationship that happens afterwards, and divorce is what happens when that relationship ends. In between there are all sorts of good reasons for marriage such as the fact that it provides protection for the family in Irish law which isn’t afforded to unmarried couples, and if a couple decides to have children, marriage provides legal protection for them too that it doesn’t provide for the children of unmarried couples. ALL parties involved get the bad end of the stick in a divorce, there are no winners in that scenario, but you asked about the benefits of marriage, not the disadvantages of divorce.

Citing divorce as a reason against marriage is silly, it’s like arguing that because death is an unavoidable inevitability, people shouldn’t bother making a life for themselves.

Church on Tuesday · 12-01-2021 2:24pm

SouthWesterly wrote: »

They are as valuable as the paper written on

Still better than nothing, in any event you'd want to try to get your particulars sorted in the likely event the marriage may fail down the line or better yet, just don't get married at all until much much further down the line.

It's a long life, what's the rush?

topdecko · 12-01-2021 3:08pm

It all depends on the context. If there are kids involved i would say it is a given that marriage is important due to the protections it confers on the family and the much easier path re: inheritance tax/CGT it creates regarding financial decisions etc. Also it is a commitment to your better half and this should not be trivialised.
If it is 2 adults who are not bothered and don't need the hassle then there seems little point in the endeavour.

martinedwards · 12-01-2021 3:20pm

Married 28 years and still loving every second!

thomasm · 12-01-2021 3:21pm

From a tax perspective, absolutely

Cienciano · 12-01-2021 3:28pm

feelings wrote: »

If things ever go tits up in your marriage, the law here still favours women. Especially if there are kids involved. Husbands/fathers always appear to get a raw deal.

If you're not married you have even less rights in regards to kids.

12-01-2021 3:32pm

No kids and neither of us were bothered but the spouse element of our respective pensions made it a thing

We were married in twenty minutes, took the other two attendees (because you need witnesses) to lunch then hit the airport for a long weekend

tbh i dont understand the question and i dont understand anyone- man or woman- who confuses marriage with yknow making a relationship work

seamus · 12-01-2021 3:42pm

If you're worrying about what happens when you break up, then you shouldn't be getting married IMO. It's something you do when you've already built a life with this person that you don't intend on leaving. It's not the starting point of building that life.

Same as pre-nups. I'll never really understand why people go to the trouble of getting a pre-nup. Just don't get married. Getting a pre-nup is in essence dooming the marriage to failure.

Aside from the implicit internal comfort from legally acknowledging my wife as my direct next-of-kin and family, marriage gives me the comfort that in the event something were to happen to me, there is zero legal red tape for my wife to have to try and unravel. Insurance companies aren't going to screw her over based on a technicality, the bank will not freeze our accounts, and Revenue are never going to come chasing her for a huge CAT bill.

Day-to-day being able to do joint tax returns is helpful and there are lots of other really small things where marriage greases the wheels. Like car insurance, schools, hospitals, kids passports, etc.

Church on Tuesday · 12-01-2021 3:50pm

Cienciano wrote: »

If you're not married you have even less rights in regards to kids.

You have no rights as a father full stop.

Thelonious Monk · 12-01-2021 3:58pm

seamus wrote: »

If you're worrying about what happens when you break up, then you shouldn't be getting married IMO.

You have to be realistic, perfect marriages can turn to sh*t over time, it happens.

FintanMcluskey · 12-01-2021 4:00pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

You have to be realistic, perfect marriages can turn to sh*t over time, it happens.

People change drastically over the course of marriages.

Also getting a mortgage is a massive amount of stress for most couples

Often heard it said, when debt comes in the door, love flies out the window

seamus · 12-01-2021 4:01pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

You have to be realistic, perfect marriages can turn to sh*t over time, it happens.

Sure, but trying to be prepared for it, or even worrying about it, suggests that it's so likely that you may as well not get married.

I'm not under the illusion that nothing could ever break my marriage, but I consider it such an outside possibility that I spend no time worrying about it.

lawred2 · 12-01-2021 4:02pm

Stan27 wrote: »

Is it worth it anymore?
Looking at it from mans point of view, but is there any real benefit for it, which is essentially an expensive party.
I know if things go bad and divorce happens, the men seem to get the bad end of the stick.
Obviously there are are a good lot of great marriages out there so it still suits a lot of people.

Just curious of people’s opinions ?

with the right people it is...

most definitely

with the wrong people...

obviously not

lawred2 · 12-01-2021 4:04pm

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

People change drastically over the course of marriages.

Also getting a mortgage is a massive amount of stress for most couples

Often heard it said, when debt comes in the door, love flies out the window

nonsense

debt is an unavoidable fact of life... unmanaged debt is a different story and can put a weak relationship to the test.

Marlay · 12-01-2021 4:08pm

If the relationship survives organising a wedding it is definitely a good sign.

Antares35 · 12-01-2021 4:09pm

seamus wrote: »

Sure, but trying to be prepared for it, or even worrying about it, suggests that it's so likely that you may as well not get married.

I'm not under the illusion that nothing could ever break my marriage, but I consider it such an outside possibility that I spend no time worrying about it.

Being prepared for something doesn't mean you want or expect it to happen. Do you have life insurance? People put that in place to protect their loved ones should something happen. Doesn't mean they plan or want to die.

Mjolnir · 12-01-2021 4:14pm

SouthWesterly wrote: »

They are as valuable as the paper written on

Not true
The paper could be used for a contract thats enforceable and recognised in Ireland, so in essence its a horrible waste of paper.

Literally a pointless endeavour getting one as no court here will recognise it as having any legal standing.

Thelonious Monk · 12-01-2021 4:17pm

seamus wrote: »

Sure, but trying to be prepared for it, or even worrying about it, suggests that it's so likely that you may as well not get married.

I'm not under the illusion that nothing could ever break my marriage, but I consider it such an outside possibility that I spend no time worrying about it.

The last person I went out with was considerably richer than me, a couple of properties, very wealthy parents etc. If we had got married I'd have no problem signing something, not that I'd ever want anything but I would understand someone's worries about that kind of thing. You never really know anyone as well as you think you do, in my opinion.

Hyperbollix · 12-01-2021 5:31pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

You never really know anyone as well as you think you do, in my opinion.

And until you involve assets and cash, you don't know them at all!

Sheeps · 12-01-2021 5:49pm

Stan27 wrote: »

Is it worth it anymore?
Looking at it from mans point of view, but is there any real benefit for it, which is essentially an expensive party.
I know if things go bad and divorce happens, the men seem to get the bad end of the stick.
Obviously there are are a good lot of great marriages out there so it still suits a lot of people.

Just curious of people’s opinions ?

Tax benefit alone, yes it probably is to a lot of people.

Stan27 · 12-01-2021 6:17pm

Sheeps wrote: »

Tax benefit alone, yes it probably is to a lot of people.

My delima is, with my gf for over 3 years, and currently building a house. Love her to bits and happy out, i really am.
But for a wedding/ marriage i dont really see the benefit.
Id have no major interest doing it, id just do it too keep her happy if push came to shove.

eviltwin · 12-01-2021 6:21pm

Stan27 wrote: »

My delima is, with my gf for over 3 years, and currently building a house. Love her to bits and happy out, i really am.
But for a wedding/ marriage i dont really see the benefit.
Id have no major interest doing it, id just do it too keep her happy if push came to shove.

Did ye not discuss this before you started building a house together?

Strumms · 12-01-2021 6:28pm

feelings wrote: »

If things ever go tits up in your marriage, the law here still favours women. Especially if there are kids involved. Husbands/fathers always appear to get a raw deal.

It does.. my cousin is living proof.

He married a girl who developed about three years into the marriage, a sort of psychological issue. She was an office manager, he was a restaurant manager. So not bad combined cash flow... they bought a seriously nice place after a big wedding....

With bills, sizable mortgage, a new child... the wife started going gaga... she was always a nicely presented lady but she started going mental... spending mental money on designer labels like Versace, Vera Wang etc...Sean had multiple sit downs and ended up having to blag money off his mates even my Dad to buy clothes. Proper nutsville. You’d call around to see him at 3pm on a Saturday and she’d be in a designer cocktail dress. NUTS.

After two years... he sought a divorce... he was accused of being married to his work, a bad husband and of course who benefits in the main ? Not him..

Rezident · 12-01-2021 6:30pm

Yes marriage is great is you're female, when it is not perfect you can walk away at any time with the kids, the house, his money and his future earnings - you don't even need to give any reason.

Sadly marriage is probably not worth it for men anymore, family law in this country is significantly biased against men, hence the depressing suicide statistics. And then your kids will grow up without a dad so they are five times more likely to commit suicide, increased risk of anti-social behaviour, criminality, teenage pregnancy etc. and there is nothing you can do about it if one angry woman says so.

There is a 50% probability the marriage will fail and in almost all cases the man will be much worse off than the woman - you will lose your kids, your house, your assets, your mental health etc. Everyone knows it is biased against men but you would not believe just how biased it openly is. Suicide is a real option for many men in this desperate situation. Over a hundred Irish father will kill themselves (and thousands in the UK, where the situation is even worse) each year as they are not allowed see their own kids.

Maybe marriage worked a hundred years ago but it does not work for men in it's current state.

Rezident · 12-01-2021 6:37pm

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

This is why you get a pre nup.

Pre-nuptials have zero basis in Irish law, she will get your kids and your house and your assets and your future earnings, even if she has serious mental health issues and is completely unreasonable . I know of one case in the UK (an even worse family law system than here but somewhat similar) where the mother was a heroin addict and she still won custody. What does a man have to do to win? How many couples do you know of where the man came out of the divorce better off than the woman?

And the probability of this happening to you is around 50%. Statistically, it makes no sense for men to get married in Ireland anymore. Talk to some of the men who have been through it in Men's Aid etc. You would not believe how bad it is, and those are the ones that survived.

2012paddy2012 · 12-01-2021 6:38pm

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

This is why you get a pre nup.

Not worth the paper it’s written on , unfortunate

FintanMcluskey · 12-01-2021 6:46pm

Marlay wrote: »

If the relationship survives organising a wedding it is definitely a good sign.

Usually it’s not the groom that causes the drama!

Haven’t heard of a groomsman being asked to loose weight to look good for the pics yet!

corner of hells · 12-01-2021 6:53pm

Rezident wrote: »

Yes marriage is great is you're female, when it is not perfect you can walk away at any time with the kids, the house, his money and his future earnings - you don't even need to give any reason.

Sadly marriage is probably not worth it for men anymore, family law in this country is significantly biased against men, hence the depressing suicide statistics. And then your kids will grow up without a dad so they are five times more likely to commit suicide, increased risk of anti-social behaviour, criminality, teenage pregnancy etc. and there is nothing you can do about it if one angry woman says so.

There is a 50% probability the marriage will fail and in almost all cases the man will be much worse off than the woman - you will lose your kids, your house, your assets, your mental health etc. Everyone knows it is biased against men but you would not believe just how biased it openly is. Suicide is a real option for many men in this desperate situation. Over a hundred Irish father will kill themselves (and thousands in the UK, where the situation is even worse) each year as they are not allowed see their own kids.

Maybe marriage worked a hundred years ago but it does not work for men in it's current state.

A 50 % probability the marriage will fail ? Where ?
Even for AH that's a bit off the wall.

flasher0030 · 12-01-2021 6:53pm

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

People change drastically over the course of marriages.

Also getting a mortgage is a massive amount of stress for most couples

Often heard it said, when debt comes in the door, love flies out the window

Absolutely. Best comment here so far - "people change drastically over the course of marriages".

I know this might be controversial, but it's so true from what I have seen - when a woman has kids, it has a psychological impact. It obviously varies from mother to mother, but towards the extreme end - one minute you could be married to someone and having a fun loving relationship. Next minute she could be roaring at you for not putting on the lid of the toothpaste properly.
So basically, for the marriage to survive, the question is does the man live with this new scenario. And in most cases they will, because there is very little choice. There is a kid involved, and the law favours the wife.
So my advice is definitely don't get married. But even if you don't, and a kid or 2 comes along, you're still stuck between a rock and a hard place when things go tits up between the husband and wife.

Watch Marriage Story. Great movie. Cuts so close to the bone.

partyguinness · 12-01-2021 6:54pm

Great for killing the sex life.

Mad_maxx · 12-01-2021 7:04pm

Stan27 wrote: »

Is it worth it anymore?
Looking at it from mans point of view, but is there any real benefit for it, which is essentially an expensive party.
I know if things go bad and divorce happens, the men seem to get the bad end of the stick.
Obviously there are are a good lot of great marriages out there so it still suits a lot of people.

Just curious of people’s opinions ?

in the majority of cases , the woman gets considerably wealthier the day she marries , the man considerably poorer

Mad_maxx · 12-01-2021 7:06pm

feelings wrote: »

If things ever go tits up in your marriage, the law here still favours women. Especially if there are kids involved. Husbands/fathers always appear to get a raw deal.

yep , its called " gender equality "

Louis Friend · 12-01-2021 7:09pm

It is worth it.

I wouldn’t allow marriages that have turned sour to colour your views.

It’s a public declaration of love and the formation of a family unit in front of family, friends, and the State.

Plus it’s important if kids are on the agenda.

Bobblehats · 12-01-2021 7:23pm

Louis Friend wrote: »

It is worth it.

I wouldn’t allow marriages that have turned sour to colour your views.

It’s a public declaration of love and the formation of a family unit in front of family, friends, and the State.

Plus it’s important if kids are on the agenda.

Yeah I wouldn’t either. Marriage; shacking up with your partner all of that.... it’s a beautiful thing man, f people that don’t truly love each other are gettin hitched it’s an abuse of the very concept anyway. And then they have the gall to tell us relationships aren’t all that? Just because some folk are write-offs in said scenario they shouldn’t dictate how it’s gonna be.

Sheeps · 12-01-2021 7:52pm

Stan27 wrote: »

My delima is, with my gf for over 3 years, and currently building a house. Love her to bits and happy out, i really am.
But for a wedding/ marriage i dont really see the benefit.
Id have no major interest doing it, id just do it too keep her happy if push came to shove.

You may be better off being joint assessed by revenue in the long run, depending on both of your earnings.

jmlad2020 · 12-01-2021 7:59pm

Imagine you're wife leaving you and kicking you out of the house you paid for built on your land. Only for the wife to start shagging another man in your gaff.

Meanwhile you are living in a bedsit aged 48 too old too ugly to match young ones on Tinder. This is is your life and it is ending one minute at a time.

Sadly this is the reality for many Irish men. Women always have the upper hand in this type of thing, unless they're abusive but even then you'll still be up against it with the law believing you. SAD.

Marriage: is it worth it?

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