Are you still using turf?

cgcsb · 10-07-2019 4:56pm

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Part of the outskirts of Galway city is build on bog - does development stop there too? How far do you go with this?

Yes, Galway's urban area should only be a quarter of what it is.

s7ryf3925pivug · 10-07-2019 5:01pm

I agree with the abolition of burning turf, peat and coal for domestic heating nationwide. Anything else exposes the insincerity of the climate emergency declaration. I also agree that buying bogs from owners is reasonable, though not at an inflated price.

cgcsb · 10-07-2019 5:03pm

Graces7 wrote: »

Living in a city is generally more environmentally-friendly than living in the countryside.

Coal and oil pollutes as does traffic. So how d you work that one out?

Urban areas = more people living closer to areas of employment = less car journeys, more public transport, and overall shorter trip lengths.

s7ryf3925pivug · 10-07-2019 5:04pm

Winter air quality in Irish villages is worse than cities because of they burn turf and coal in one and not the other. New Ross has worse air quality than Beijing in the Winter

Dank Janniels · 10-07-2019 5:06pm

nthclare wrote: »

I use turf dust sometimes as a mulch around plants, it stays dark and can turn your pink hydrangeas blue...

Its great for pathways too if you've no gravel, little gravely bits of turf, it suppresses weeds too...

Turf dust???

ITS CALLED SPRUSS!!!!
Bloody townies!!

kingdom fan · 10-07-2019 6:02pm

I agree that we need to preserve our environment, and mindlessly pursuing a totally unsustainable act such as burning turf cannot go on forever. However I'd take some analysis of carbon footprint , efficiencies etc with a pinch of salt. For example.
How many sitka spruce plantations are on bog land. I've see vast tracts of bog covered in them. The bog is drained and then planted. No analysis on carbon loss only green party saying it's great. Total BS, and completely narrow view.
Roads. Two motorways I regularly travel cut through boys bog of Allen and castle Connell. The amount of bog removed and drained for these will dwarf any kind of demostic turf cutting.
Wind turbines. Big bog slide in galway a few years ago. A small one in Kerry that never made the media. Has anyone seen wind turbines built in bog. The bog is drained and vast quantities dug out and taken away. But they don't emit CO2... Or methane .....
People spouting the green party line on domestic turf cutting, efficiencies and d environment are being spoon fed sh1t and kept in d dark.

10-07-2019 6:13pm

Dank Janniels wrote: »

Turf dust???

ITS CALLED SPRUSS!!!!
Bloody townies!!

Dafuq is spruss?

I have never heard of this SPRUSS. It sounds like a German high-speed rail.

It is mowl, it will always be mowl.

Omg this is what rural areas used to go to war over, isn't it?

El Tarangu · 10-07-2019 6:23pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

You refer to rural "dwellers" but "our" countryside. I'm trying not to read too much into that, I'm sure you can't actually object to the fact of private property, and property ownership.

You would be right, indeed

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

But if I came out with some ludicrous statement like "we should withold pensions from the elderly until they stop heating *our* houses with crude oil", you'd probably correctly conclude that I was talking rubbish.

I'm not sure what you are getting at with that analogy; a poster referred to "people from overseas telling us what to do with our blanket bogs" - people are generally happy with the EU's input on how much beef or dairy they should produce when it was accompanied by a big cheque. Which is understandable; the flip-side of that is that we also also have to take their input on how we should be looking after ... Ireland's bogland.

(I didn't want to say 'our', lest that it set you off on a search for Reds under the bed once again).

10-07-2019 6:32pm

El Tarangu wrote: »

I'm not sure what you are getting at with that analogy; a poster referred to "people from overseas telling us what to do with our blanket bogs" - people are generally happy with the EU's input on how much beef or dairy they should produce when it was accompanied by a big cheque.

This is so out-of-touch with reality I don't know if it's worth anyone's time to reply.

If you object to EU subsidies, then let us run our farms by globally competitive standards. Farmers are well able to turn a profit, but the EU has decided that it doesn't want farmers to engage in ordinary commercial practices. Probably wise.

But don't blame farmers for this. Farmers can, alternatively, and quite happily, carry on in business like your local Starbucks or Tesco does. Right now, farmers are incentivised to forego profit in favour of the environment.

Farmers aren't benefitting from EU welfare, as you seem to believe. They're accepting (probably lower) profit margins for the sake of sustainability and engaging unproductive farming practices, as requested.

Everyone seems to think they're qualified to tell farmers what's what, without seeming to have he most basic notion of how the industry works

Markcheese · 10-07-2019 6:51pm

Wow this degenerated into an us versus them argument very quick,
And most are actually arguing the same side of the coin,
The sooner Bord na mona stop milling peat, and promote the bogs regrowing the better, but even the couple of small trailers an old farmer removes, still needs a drained bog... A living bog is moss, probably with drier ridges and banks, with scrub and Heather on,
But if an oul fella is removing turf by sleán, he's not going to be draining much,

10-07-2019 7:08pm

Markcheese wrote: »

Wow this degenerated into an us versus them argument very quick,
And most are actually arguing the same side of the coin,
The sooner Bord na mona stop milling peat, and promote the bogs regrowing the better, but even the couple of small trailers an old farmer removes, still needs a drained bog...

Can't disagree with any of the above.

You're totally right about drainage, I just want to add one thing and remind people that this kind of drainage is totally unlike what most of us would describe as draining bogs, ie where you dig a ditch around a bog to eventually transform It into arable land.

I hate that practice. Any right-thinking person does. Most of us want to conserve peatlands, as you correctly said we are usually arguing on the margins here.

Galwayguy35 · 10-07-2019 7:09pm

Used to cut it with the slean growing up because the machine wasn't able to get up to where the bog was and we wheeled it out to the road with a barrow.

Hard going it was but we just saw it as part of the summer work that needed to be done when we were off school.

Don't think young lads would do it now though.

These days some of the bogs around here are protected but a few miles down the road we can cut on them.

TDs know what side their bread is buttered on and it would be a brave/foolish one that would come to the door and tell people to stop cutting turf which is why a party like the Greens is dead in the water west of the Shannon.

NabyLadistheman · 10-07-2019 7:13pm

Face down ass up that's the way we foot our turf

kingdom fan · 10-07-2019 7:39pm

cgcsb wrote: »

Graces7 wrote: »

Living in a city is generally more environmentally-friendly than living in the countryside.

Coal and oil pollutes as does traffic. So how d you work that one out?

Urban areas = more people living closer to areas of employment = less car journeys, more public transport, and overall shorter trip lengths.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp6ci/p6cii/p6td/

Does this say longest commute is around Dublin ( Meath, Kildare Wicklow )
Donegal , Kerry the shortest.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.joe.ie/amp/news/new-cso-figures-reveal-unemployment-rates-county-ireland-591745
South Dublin has more unemployment than Kerry or Clare or Roscommon. Surely that can't be right.

nacho libre · 10-07-2019 7:57pm

I miss it. It was a fond memory from my childhood.. The tea and sandwiches after a day of work in the bog were like an exotic meal! Also the trips home on top of the load of turf were good fun.

d8491prj5boyvg · 11-07-2019 4:25am

kingdom fan wrote: »

I agree that we need to preserve our environment, and mindlessly pursuing a totally unsustainable act such as burning turf cannot go on forever. However I'd take some analysis of carbon footprint , efficiencies etc with a pinch of salt. For example.
How many sitka spruce plantations are on bog land. I've see vast tracts of bog covered in them. The bog is drained and then planted. No analysis on carbon loss only green party saying it's great. Total BS, and completely narrow view.
Roads. Two motorways I regularly travel cut through boys bog of Allen and castle Connell. The amount of bog removed and drained for these will dwarf any kind of demostic turf cutting.
Wind turbines. Big bog slide in galway a few years ago. A small one in Kerry that never made the media. Has anyone seen wind turbines built in bog. The bog is drained and vast quantities dug out and taken away. But they don't emit CO2... Or methane .....
People spouting the green party line on domestic turf cutting, efficiencies and d environment are being spoon fed sh1t and kept in d dark.

I'd agree in the sense that there is hypocrisy but that doesn't justify unsustainable behaviour just because the other lad got array with it. All of it should be stopped. So I'd hold the pinch of salt but call out the unsustainable behaviour that the poster mentions

Graces7 · 11-07-2019 6:02am

cgcsb wrote: »

Urban areas = more people living closer to areas of employment = less car journeys, more public transport, and overall shorter trip lengths.

There is a massive difference in population numbers between rural and urban that negates your argument and there is very little public transport out here. eg we have three buses a week. And sparse population

city traffic is constant and heavy

Peatys · 11-07-2019 6:04am

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I hear this a lot, what's the exact science/ calculation behind it?

We spend less than a grand for a winter's supply of turf, at home. None of the rads work, so it's the only source of heat, apart from maybe one trailer load of timber (which goes in no time, and seems super inefficient).

I live in a smaller house, in Dublin, and my heating costs are a few hundred quid higher. And my house is better insulated. I'm curious as to the provenance of this fact.

€min wage/hr per person for time spent bringing it home and it becomes the most inefficient source of heat available.

Graces7 · 11-07-2019 6:05am

Caroline Obedient Rivalry wrote: »

I'd agree in the sense that there is hypocrisy but that doesn't justify unsustainable behaviour just because the other lad got array with it. All of it should be stopped. So I'd hold the pinch of salt but call out the unsustainable behaviour that the poster mentions

Land changes; we adapt.The land cannot and should not be treated as some kind of folk museum. Nature has her own ways and some posters appreciate this.

Graces7 · 11-07-2019 6:06am

Peatys wrote: »

€min wage/hr per person for time spent bringing it home and it becomes the most inefficient source of heat available.

That is not true unless you have no idea how to use it...

Peatys · 11-07-2019 6:11am

Graces7 wrote: »

That is not true unless you have no idea how to use it...

Did you miss the first half of that quote?

11-07-2019 6:18am

Peatys wrote: »

€min wage/hr per person for time spent bringing it home and it becomes the most inefficient source of heat available.

Wage... Per hour... What's all this about?

You don't pay someone to foot your turf and save it if you are a competent adult. You get your kids to do it, or you do it yourself, like mowing the lawn, or painting the kitchen. You do it when Corrie is on the telly, so it's not time you'd have used towards generating income anyway.

My neighbour once footed our turf just to be nice, but I think the real reason is because he enjoyed it.

It's mindfulness for us uneducated country folk. Ah please don't take away our mental health kind city-man, sir? Sure tis the only outlet we have since the praties were ruined again

Graces7 · 11-07-2019 6:22am

Peatys wrote: »

Did you miss the first half of that quote?

No but it was so .... far off the mark that I left it for others to deal with which I see they have done!

Graces7 · 11-07-2019 6:25am

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Wage... Per hour... What's all this about?

You don't pay someone to foot your turf and save it if you are a competent adult. You get your kids to do it, or you do it yourself, like mowing the lawn, or painting the kitchen. You do it when Corrie is on the telly, so it's not time you'd have used towards generating income anyway.

My neighbour once footed our turf just to be nice, but I think the real reason is because he enjoyed it.

It's mindfulness for us uneducated country folk. Ah please don't take away our mental health kind city-man, sir? Sure tis the only outlet we have since the praties were ruined again

lol... The turf I buy at a very small cost as I am too disabled to cut it myself, is dug in the next field by a neighbour who cuts his own and a bit extra. For their winter heating. He does me a great kindness.

urban/rural divide..

Peatys · 11-07-2019 6:28am

Slave labour does tend to make things cheaper alright. Many a summer lost to it

MayoAreMagic · 11-07-2019 6:30am

cgcsb wrote: »

It's about footprint. Humans sticking to the small area of towns and cities is better than a massive sprawl of human habitation.

:rolleyes: what despotic inward looking ignorant point of view. You can't eat gold.

Actually no, it is about preserving habitats. Sprawling masses of concrete weren't exactly the preferred living quarters for the corncrake and hen harrier last time I checked... Im simply asking what about those habitats? Surely all construction should be forced to go up in cities instead of out, from now on? Regardless of what the owners actually want? The principles are the same, but that wont happen, which tells its own story.
This idea that this is somehow different is flawed. By that logic, if the owners of the boglands went and built a casino on the site for example - completely removing all bog in the process, that would be ok, but cutting a bit off the bank every year and reducing the habitat, is deemed worse? That is not the reality.

Re gold, well you cant eat habitats either, but I think you have missed the point. Much of that land is privately owned. If they want to dictate what happens with it, they should need to own it to do so. The same way if someone walks into your privately owned home and tells you to knock out that wall and close up that window for the sake of the poor auld slugs, you are simply going to ask them to leave. Private ownership should mean something, and this attitude of trying to shame people into doing what is in fashion, with their own property, shows a lack of respect for people and their rights. They own that land the same way you own your car/home etc and that should be respected fully. So that is why I say, if someone wants to dictate as regards what happens to it, they should have to buy it.

Im not trying to keep cutting turf btw. If it has to be stopped that is fine. But I do think that the people involved dont get fair treatment and that they 100% should. This view that they are ignorant and backward is a big part of the problem and not only not true, but in fact totally irrelevant. What is relevant is that these lands are legally owned by these people and therefore their business until such time as they have sold them, like it or lump it.

My two cents on it is, there are thousands of hectares of bog in this country that are not cut for turf nor ever will be. Therefore I think there is room for some level of regulated turf cutting to continue and nobody has to be put out too much.
Ironically enough, the biggest threat to these areas is in fact people buying tracts and planting it with forestry, many of whom would not live in the countryside and use it as an investment. Not many are calling them ignorant, curiously enough...

11-07-2019 6:34am

Graces7 wrote: »

lol... The turf I buy at a very small cost as I am too disabled to cut it myself, is dug in the next field by a neighbour who cuts his own and a bit extra. For their winter heating. He does me a great kindness.

urban/rural divide..

Ouch. That was a particularly stupid comment on my part. I meant a bit of a jibe at those who can save their own turf but don't want to, not people who just can't for whatever reason.

Turf really does bring out a lot of the best in people. Living off the land, great exercise, cooperation between neighbours like you mentioned, and the joy of burning it. Long may it continue.

Accidentally · 11-07-2019 7:14am

Peatys wrote: »

€min wage/hr per person for time spent bringing it home and it becomes the most inefficient source of heat available.

Some people save turf and cut firewood. Some people pay gym fees.

Graces7 · 11-07-2019 8:39am

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Ouch. That was a particularly stupid comment on my part. I meant a bit of a jibe at those who can save their own turf but don't want to, not people who just can't for whatever reason.

Turf really does bring out a lot of the best in people. Living off the land, great exercise, cooperation between neighbours like you mentioned, and the joy of burning it. Long may it continue.

why "ouch"? I agreed fully. I love being able to support my neighbours for their kindnesses in even this small way. Far far better than some anonymous dealer over the water.. before that he had given me so many bags free.

and amen to your last words! AMEN!

But rural life and city life are poles apart

El Tarangu · 11-07-2019 10:00am

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

If they want to dictate what happens with it, they should need to own it to do so... Private ownership should mean something, and this attitude of trying to shame people into doing what is in fashion, with their own property, shows a lack of respect for people and their rights. They own that land the same way you own your car/home etc and that should be respected fully. So that is why I say, if someone wants to dictate as regards what happens to it, they should have to buy it.

There are all sorts of restrictions society places on the use of private property; if I were to buy the land next door to you and try to open an incinerator or start a strip-mining operation, I probably wouldn't be allowed to.

cgcsb · 11-07-2019 10:11am

Graces7 wrote: »

There is a massive difference in population numbers between rural and urban that negates your argument and there is very little public transport out here. eg we have three buses a week. And sparse population

city traffic is constant and heavy

I'm wondering why you're continuing with this clearly ridiculous line of reasoning. Dublin's canal cordon revealed tat 70% of people enter the centre by sustainable mode, public transport, walking and cycling. If those people lived in rural areas they'd all drive long distances to work, i.e. an unsustainable mode. Why is this hard for you to understand? More and more people are living in cities now, therfore reducing their emissions from transport.

cgcsb · 11-07-2019 10:12am

Peatys wrote: »

€min wage/hr per person for time spent bringing it home and it becomes the most inefficient source of heat available.

I guess not everyone footing turf is getting their €10 per hour.

cgcsb · 11-07-2019 10:13am

Graces7 wrote: »

Land changes; we adapt.The land cannot and should not be treated as some kind of folk museum. Nature has her own ways and some posters appreciate this.

nature has yet to develop a defence against turf hoppers. Perhaps some teredactyl like creature will evolve and decapitate the humans footing the turf. :rolleyes:

cgcsb · 11-07-2019 10:16am

Graces7 wrote: »

lol... The turf I buy at a very small cost as I am too disabled to cut it myself, is dug in the next field by a neighbour who cuts his own and a bit extra. For their winter heating. He does me a great kindness.

urban/rural divide..

Good thing you're not a 'blow in' all you'd get is curtain twitching, one word answers and thinly veiled accusations of immorality

cgcsb · 11-07-2019 10:18am

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Actually no, it is about preserving habitats. Sprawling masses of concrete weren't exactly the preferred living quarters for the corncrake and hen harrier last time I checked... Im simply asking what about those habitats? Surely all construction should be forced to go up in cities instead of out, from now on?

Yes, that should be the case also.

EmmetSpiceland · 11-07-2019 10:33am

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Always took you for a culchie, Emmet.

I can't say this hasn't strained my admiration for you.

Didn't it ever occur to blame the smog on the cars, and not our God given turf?

Honestly, Emmet. I expected better. Tell us a toilet tale and all shall be forgiven.

No, that’s a scurrilous thought, Dublin “bred and buttered”, as they do be sayin’.

I blame the smog mostly on the coal but I worry about burning anything these days that could lead to the “pea soupers” returning.

One thing I will say in defence of the turf and that’s that it does give off a lovely smell. I’m out “west” at the moment and have visited a couple of cottages, you know the types, no TV, main living room with four rooms off it and a big open fire with a heap of turf burning all day. Mixed with the damp it gives quite a sweet “musty” scent to the dwelling.

I’m glad your admiration hasn’t been strained, that is reassuring as I know you “country” folk can have a bit of a “chip” on your shoulder when it comes to us Dubs. But do be careful not to “strain” anything else. I’d recommend adding a few prunes to your porridge to avoid this.

11-07-2019 11:09am

Peatys wrote: »

€min wage/hr per person for time spent bringing it home and it becomes the most inefficient source of heat available.

I never get people who put a cost of their time like this for stuff they are doing outside of work, do you spend all your spare time doing things that are making you money? Do you put a cost on the time you spend cooking dinner and decide it’s cheaper to buy takeaway as if I paid myself 10 euro an hour cooking my dinner it would cost more :rolleyes:

Stuff you do in your own time shouldn’t be looked at on a cost/hour basis. If I cut down a few trees, chop them up and burn them the only cost is a small bit of petrol for the chainsaw that’s the bottom line. Nobody sits down and says “well if I was paying myself 10 euro an hour that would have cost me 80 euro so that timber isn’t really free”. Nonsense.

cgcsb wrote: »

I'm wondering why you're continuing with this clearly ridiculous line of reasoning. Dublin's canal cordon revealed tat 70% of people enter the centre by sustainable mode, public transport, walking and cycling. If those people lived in rural areas they'd all drive long distances to work, i.e. an unsustainable mode. Why is this hard for you to understand? More and more people are living in cities now, therfore reducing their emissions from transport.

Who said driving is unsustainable? It’s as sustainable as any other form of transport. As for the love for city living and packing people into small houses on top of each other, no thanks.

11-07-2019 11:22am

cgcsb wrote: »

I'm wondering why you're continuing with this clearly ridiculous line of reasoning. Dublin's canal cordon revealed tat 70% of people enter the centre by sustainable mode, public transport, walking and cycling.

And Look! A barge comes bringing from Athy and other far flung towns mythologies - Kavanagh,

(Those mythologies were turf, cgcsb, our dark, national memory)

Have some respect for Patrick Kavanagh and the rural people of Ireland before you mention the canals in objection to the bogs of Ireland. We heated your tenements.

I have set my face to ruddy/ highly frustrated.

d8491prj5boyvg · 11-07-2019 11:27am

Graces7 wrote: »

The land cannot and should not be treated as some kind of folk museum.

Yes it should.

gozunda · 11-07-2019 11:35am

Caroline Obedient Rivalry wrote: »

Yes it should.

What all of it?

d8491prj5boyvg · 11-07-2019 11:36am

gozunda wrote: »

What all of it?

All of the bog, yes.

11-07-2019 1:00pm

Caroline Obedient Rivalry wrote: »

All of the bog, yes.

What do you mean by folk museum?

Surely it's those of us who enjoy a working bog who don't want to turn it into a folk museum?

A bog is a living, breathing thing. Human interaction with the bog (and on the bog) is part of its life.

Maybe this was your point, and I have taken you up wrong? I sure don't see how anyone who loves and *actually uses* the bogs thinks of them as a folk museum.

Dakota Dan · 11-07-2019 1:06pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

But turf is so much cheaper. Cost really should be considered when discussing efficiency.

Not wanting to split hairs, but that chart is really about efficacy, not efficiency.

You're literally comparing 1 tonne of turf to 1 tonne of oil, while ignoring cost -- a huge factor.

They couldn’t charge a carbon tax on it so banned it instead.

beggars_bush · 11-07-2019 1:11pm

Kids get a sense of an honest days work when saving turf

Honest, as in there's no monetary gain from it

Ush1 · 11-07-2019 1:31pm

Graces7 wrote: »

There is a massive difference in population numbers between rural and urban that negates your argument and there is very little public transport out here. eg we have three buses a week. And sparse population

city traffic is constant and heavy

It's per capita, urbanisation is much more efficient and eco friendly for numerous reasons.

Graces7 · 11-07-2019 1:38pm

Ush1 wrote: »

It's per capita, urbanisation is much more efficient and eco friendly for numerous reasons.

such as?

Graces7 · 11-07-2019 1:58pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

What do you mean by folk museum?

Surely it's those of us who enjoy a working bog who don't want to turn it into a folk museum?

A bog is a living, breathing thing. Human interaction with the bog (and on the bog) is part of its life.

Maybe this was your point, and I have taken you up wrong? I sure don't see how anyone who loves and *actually uses* the bogs thinks of them as a folk museum.

I used the term folk museum as an extreme term, never thinking it would be anything but ridiculed and denied... Life and nature move forwards and change; they are not fossilised. You cannot halt progression and trying to do so does more damage than accepting and looking to the future and there are many conservation areas already
eg

http://www.irishbogrestorationproject.ie/project_sites/glencullin-lower-mayo.html

In Mayo we have the largest bog areas in Ireland also

and we have many who use the bog respectfully and cut it carefully and responsibly for the love they have for it.

MayoAreMagic · 11-07-2019 1:59pm

El Tarangu wrote: »

There are all sorts of restrictions society places on the use of private property; if I were to buy the land next door to you and try to open an incinerator or start a strip-mining operation, I probably wouldn't be allowed to.

They dont take away the entire purpose of having the property though... If you buy a shop, the council wont turn around and tell you, actually we have decided that that shop is no longer a shop and you cant do anything with it, but you can keep it anyway. That is effectively what is happening. Dont forget the reason these people invested in this land in the first place - it was sold to them to fulfill a purpose, even a business for some. It's simply unfair treatment

cgcsb · 11-07-2019 2:12pm

Saoirse Tasty Coat wrote: »

Who said driving is unsustainable?

:rolleyes: yeah yeah yeah, your views are well known on the topic.

cgcsb · 11-07-2019 2:15pm

Graces7 wrote: »

such as?

more efficient travel, more efficient heating, smaller spaces, shared spaces, more efficient provision of services, shared services.

Are you still using turf?

Comments