What is the most you would pay for a handbag

meeeeh · 10-11-2015 4:34pm

intheclouds wrote: »

Course the holiday is long gone when you are still enjoying the bag.....

I think good holidays stay with you a long time. And besides the benefit of being able to switch off for a time shouldn't be underestimated either.

Anyway that's completely different debate but sometimes long term value of non tangible stuff is undervalued.

That being said people (including me) seem to have no problem paying large sums for slightly improved new piece of technology, especially phones or tablets or even cars. Bags actually keep their value much better.

LeeLooLee · 10-11-2015 4:50pm

intheclouds wrote: »

Course the holiday is long gone when you are still enjoying the bag.....

They say travel is the only thing you buy that makes you richer. Would rather enjoy an experience rather than a piece of leather, however beautifully made it is, but that's just me.

intheclouds · 10-11-2015 5:07pm

meeeeh wrote: »

I think good holidays stay with you a long time. And besides the benefit of being able to switch off for a time shouldn't be underestimated either.

LeeLooLee wrote: »

They say travel is the only thing you buy that makes you richer. Would rather enjoy an experience rather than a piece of leather, however beautifully made it is, but that's just me.

Completely agree, just offering how things may be for the expensive bag buyers. They get to enjoy using the bag time after time, and perhaps all those smaller moments of joy (compared to 2 weeks of holiday joy) mean more to them than a holiday means to me?

Actually Im one of those people who goes to the same place to holiday each year - so many wouldnt like my holidays - but I love them! More than any bag.

Sunny Dayz · 10-11-2015 7:47pm

I was very near buying a Michael Kors handbag during the summer in BT. I had the money as a bonus from work. I was in BT's and all looking at the bags but could not bring myself to spend all that money on one handbag.
The guilts started kicking in, thinking of all the other things I could spend the money on: home improvements, a night away, put towards a holiday, birthday or Christmas presents for hubbie and son etc.
Didn't buy it. Have been using a Penneys handbag since the summer, think it was like €11 or something but it has gotten SO many complements. I'm hoping the fact that it's not obviously branded gives it the allure of being an expensive handbag! But before that I was using a Tommy Hilfiger handbag which I bought in Century 21 in NYC about 7 years ago and that lasted me until earlier this year so I certainly got my money's worth from it!
I will admit I have been tempted to buy a knock off bag (I know it's bold!), just cos it would be cheaper...

intheclouds · 10-11-2015 8:04pm

I did buy a knock off bag once, but I'm so oblivious to designers and branding that I didn't realise it was a knock off of something (bought it from a guy selling bags on the street in Rome). I thought he was nervous and sketchy because he was selling real suede cheap.

Anyway, went out with it one night and a girl in the group had a genuine version of whatever it was. She was at pains to point out the flaws of the knock off. Personally I couldn't see much of a difference. Tiny details and lining. It was a grand bag, lasted years.

LeeLooLee · 10-11-2015 8:10pm

intheclouds wrote: »

I did buy a knock off bag once, but I'm so oblivious to designers and branding that I didn't realise it was a knock off of something (bought it from a guy selling bags on the street in Rome). I thought he was nervous and sketchy because he was selling real suede cheap.

Anyway, went out with it one night and a girl in the group had a genuine version of whatever it was. She was at pains to point out the flaws of the knock off. Personally I couldn't see much of a difference. Tiny details and lining. It was a grand bag, lasted years.

Is it wrong to judge people who do this?

intheclouds · 10-11-2015 8:50pm

LeeLooLee wrote: »

Is it wrong to judge people who do this?

I didn't really mind tbh. I'd rather have had my cheap bag on the night than her expensive one, she was terrified it'd get damaged or stolen and was "minding" it all night. Whereas I just dumped mine in the corner and had a good time!

I'm probably the perfect person for knock offs seeing as I don't really see the value in an expensive bag. But she would have hated to have the knock off, so we each had the bag that made us happy.

Sunny Dayz · 10-11-2015 9:02pm

intheclouds wrote: »

I did buy a knock off bag once, but I'm so oblivious to designers and branding that I didn't realise it was a knock off of something (bought it from a guy selling bags on the street in Rome). I thought he was nervous and sketchy because he was selling real suede cheap.

Actually that reminds me I did by a knock off Louis Vuitton bag in Rome 4 years ago on honeymoon, now I knew it was knock off when I bought it but in my defence I did deliberate with myself (and my husband who didn't give a monkeys!) over buying it. I haven't really used it a whole lot to be honest, it is obvious that it's not real as it doesn't have the LV symbols on it and it just feels a bit cheap.

fits · 10-11-2015 9:08pm

I was in Kuala Lumpur there during the summer. Place is full of designer stores. EVERY SINGLE ONE of them looked the same! Each was a sparsely stocked store with about 5 staff on duty and noone in them. The bags all looked the same!

I get this quality thing. I love good leather. But the designer thing is a complete and utter rip off. Its all marketing and no substance. The designer bags are more of a rip off than the knock offs.

In my opinion of course and all.

Spanish Eyes · 10-11-2015 10:37pm

I often wonder if the wonderful designer bags are made in the same places that Penneys etc. bags are made.

Does anyone actually know if they are made in a la di da upmarket workspace with yoga for breakfast and soft music as you work.

Think about it.

Designer stuff is a ridiculous price. Why is that? Some people think it is a great cachet or something. Listen ladies, no one notices except you!

Those who use designer labels are probably causing third world slavery and debt.

If anyone can contradict me, I am open to persuasion.

10-11-2015 10:39pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Designer stuff is a ridiculous price. Why is that? Some people think it is a great cachet or something. Listen ladies, no one notices except you!

God forbid I do anything for myself

Spanish Eyes · 10-11-2015 11:03pm

bluewolf wrote: »

God forbid I do anything for myself

LOL. but I take what you say.

I suppose it's an each to their own thing really, and I hope you enjoy your designer handbags. Really. Kind of.....

LeeLooLee · 10-11-2015 11:11pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I often wonder if the wonderful designer bags are made in the same places that Penneys etc. bags are made.

Does anyone actually know if they are made in a la di da upmarket workspace with yoga for breakfast and soft music as you work.

Think about it.

Designer stuff is a ridiculous price. Why is that? Some people think it is a great cachet or something. Listen ladies, no one notices except you!

Those who use designer labels are probably causing third world slavery and debt.

If anyone can contradict me, I am open to persuasion.

They are mostly made in factories in China. I'm all for investing in quality but don't see the point in paying thousands of euros for a brand name.

Novella · 10-11-2015 11:22pm

LeeLooLee wrote: »

€1,600! I'm thinking about the amazing holiday in Asia I could have for that, or 2-3 city breaks. :eek:

I get paying for quality, but I always think, what if it got stolen or ruined? Do you have it insured?

No, I don't have any of my bags insured. I never even thought about insuring them to be honest. I also have never ruined a bag and I'm not a messy person so I don't really worry about it. If a bag of mine did get stolen or ruined? I would be sad in the same way a person would be sad if anything that they owned and liked was stolen or ruined.

Your car could be stolen, someone could spill a glass of red wine on your couch... That's life. I like bags (and not just expensive ones, I also have cheaper bags) and the possibility that something bad might happen isn't a reason for me personally not to have what I like.

LeeLooLee · 10-11-2015 11:29pm

Novella wrote: »

No, I don't have any of my bags insured. I never even thought about insuring them to be honest. I also have never ruined a bag and I'm not a messy person so I don't really worry about it. If a bag of mine did get stolen or ruined? I would be sad in the same way a person would be sad if anything that they owned and liked was stolen or ruined.

Your car could be stolen, someone could spill a glass of red wine on your couch... That's life. I like bags (and not just expensive ones, I also have cheaper bags) and the possibility that something bad might happen isn't a reason for me personally not to have what I like.

The thing is you were saying it's an investment, something you could hand down to future generations. I was thinking that it's fairly easy for a bag to get ruined. I was at a dinner the other day, had my bag on my lap and the person next to me knocked a glass of red wine all over it. I was sad because I loved the bag, but I paid £25 for it second hand. I dread to think what I'd have felt like if I'd paid a few grand.

meeeeh · 11-11-2015 12:19am

Channel bags are made in France, Spain and Italy. I don't know what the conditions are like there but they are sure as hell better than in some grubby sweat shop where fakes are made. I think there is no doubt that mark up on luxury products is huge but high end products that people are keeping for ever are not responsible for sweat shop conditions around the world. It's the disposable fashion which is thrown away after three wears that is doing most damage to the environment and to those making it. I am not saying people should spend thousands on bags, I don't, but let's not pretend that fakes are ethical or superior choice.

And btw anyone with appreciation for craftsmanship or feel for the leather will be able to spot the difference between cheap fakes sold on the street (I am not talking about more expensive copies) and originals. I do realize it might be not as important to everyone though.

Novella · 11-11-2015 3:49am

LeeLooLee wrote: »

The thing is you were saying it's an investment, something you could hand down to future generations. I was thinking that it's fairly easy for a bag to get ruined. I was at a dinner the other day, had my bag on my lap and the person next to me knocked a glass of red wine all over it. I was sad because I loved the bag, but I paid £25 for it second hand. I dread to think what I'd have felt like if I'd paid a few grand.

That is unfortunate. I guess I'm just very careful and perhaps lucky to never have had anything like that happen to me. If a bag of mine did get ruined, like I said, it would be sad. I understand what you're saying but to me, the fact that there's a small chance of someone stealing something I own isn't enough of a reason for me not to buy and own it. Nor is the idea that it might get dirty etc. If I can't give it to my daughter some day, I still got the enjoyment out of the purchase and using it myself. I'm not banking on being able to resell or pass it on, that would simply be an added bonus.

Different people choose to spend their money on different things. To some, a few thousand on a bag is silly. To others, it's not a big deal. To me, it is a lot of money but that's my little luxury in life.

I'm sorry about your bag btw.

How Strange · 11-11-2015 8:27am

High end luxury goods like Chanel, LV, Dior are made by craftspeople. I may personally believe the prices are bonkers but they're not making bags for people like me. They make items for people who consider a LV bag to be a small purchase and who will buy other LV goods. Each leather item will take days or even weeks to complete, usually by hand. The companies adhere to very strict rules and regulations and they're open regular to inspection by the local authorities. They're as far away from sweatshops as you can imagine. I also agree it's the mass consumerism for cheap throw away items which fuels the sweatshop industry not the luxury goods market so penneys has a lot more to answer for than Chanel or Dior

fits · 11-11-2015 8:32am

I have to say I dont agree that bags from penneys or even m&s are in anyway comparable to the good designer brands. I can spot good material and craftsmanship a mile off. I cant even walk into the likes of H&M as I think the clothes are such poor quality and so wasteful of resources.

However, when you buy a mulberry. (which are very nice bags, no doubt), you are mostly buying a name. The materials and workmanship only account for a tiny percentage of the price. So now I try to buy quality, but not designer. Incidentally, I have a marc by marc jacobs bag, and it hasnt lasted well at all. I also have a gucci bag from my aunt which must be 50 years old.

cee_jay · 11-11-2015 8:48am

I love handbags. I buy them from Penney's, River Island, Oasis.... wherever. My favourite bag is a Fossil bag I bought over 3 years and is still in perfect condition despite a lot of use. The bags I buy in Penneys never last like that.
I am being promoted soon and will be going on holiday to the States shortly so plan on buying a designer bag when I am there. I would love a Chanel bag but I just don't have the cash for it right now. So I think I have decided on a Coach bag. The bag I have picked is around $400-$500, a classic style that won't go out of fashion and professional looking for my new role. And I know it will last for years.

lazygal · 11-11-2015 9:51am

How Strange wrote: »

High end luxury goods like Chanel, LV, Dior are made by craftspeople. I may personally believe the prices are bonkers but they're not making bags for people like me. They make items for people who consider a LV bag to be a small purchase and who will buy other LV goods. Each leather item will take days or even weeks to complete, usually by hand. The companies adhere to very strict rules and regulations and they're open regular to inspection by the local authorities. They're as far away from sweatshops as you can imagine. I also agree it's the mass consumerism for cheap throw away items which fuels the sweatshop industry not the luxury goods market so penneys has a lot more to answer for than Chanel or Dior

+1. I used to work for a high end brand and I've seen the workshops where the products are made. They aren't sweatshops and the people making the leather goods train for years to qualify in their trade. It's a much more sustainable form of fashion than transporting things made from synthetic materials thousands of miles from China.

There is a kind of reverse snobbery about high end brands-some people (a general observation not directed at anyone here) delight in telling you they wouldn't be caught dead with a higher end brand and that Pennys stuff is just as good. After many years of being in love with fast and disposable fashion I can't do it any more. It's a waste of my money longer term and really bad for the environment. I now buy a lot less of everything, and I'm much more interested in where my clothes come from and what they're made of.

I have holidays and I have nice bags. I have lovely memories of the most recent one with my children. And a nice bag came with me. I've never had one ruined or anything awful happen to them.

sam34 · 11-11-2015 2:15pm

I have the odd bag that cost less than €100, but most of mine are around the €300-€400 mark, and I have one that cost €1100 and one that cost over €1900.

I LOVE handbags, they're my indulgence. I carry a different one most days, depending on what I'm wearing, and I think a nice handbag can really complete an outfit. I don't go for obviously branded ones, eg LV or Michael Kors, as IMO they look slightly brash. I go for quality materials and workmanship as well as the look of the bag.

I know that I spend a lot of money on handbags, but to me, they're worth it, for the enjoyment and use I get from them. I can afford to spend that much money on them, luckily, so I'm not going into debt or anything like it for the sake of a handbag.

I really don't care what others spend their money on and see no reason why anyone should judge me for the way I spend my hard-earned cash. Nor do I go boasting or showing off my high-end bags, and would never volunteer the fact I had a new bag or tell someone the price of it- in fact if anything I'd be more likely to let on it was cheaper if anyone asked the price of one!

ceadaoin. · 11-11-2015 11:49pm

LeeLooLee wrote: »

They are mostly made in factories in China. I'm all for investing in quality but don't see the point in paying thousands of euros for a brand name.

That's not true at all. As others have pointed out, the likes of chanel, Dior, Louis Vuitton etc are made in France, Italy and the U.S by skilled craftspeople who are paid well for their work. You are paying for superior materials and workmanship as well as the name.

IMO cheap high street bags are a false economy. They are disposable fashion, just like cheap clothes from penny's or wherever, they fall apart and you end up having to replace them anyway. If a high end designer bag such as chanel or Louis Vuitton gets damaged by general wear and tear, they will repair it. Usually free of charge.

I'd rather spend the money on a good quality well made bag that will last. You don't necessarily need to spend thousands for that. I have bags ranging from the low hundreds to one that was couple of thousand and expect to use them for years to come.

LeeLooLee · 11-11-2015 11:59pm

ceadaoin. wrote: »

That's not true at all. As others have pointed out, the likes of chanel, Dior, Louis Vuitton etc are made in France, Italy and the U.S by skilled craftspeople who are paid well for their work. You are paying for superior materials and workmanship as well as the name.

IMO cheap high street bags are a false economy. They are disposable fashion, just like cheap clothes from penny's or wherever, they fall apart and you end up having to replace them anyway. If a high end designer bag such as chanel or Louis Vuitton gets damaged by general wear and tear, they will repair it. Usually free of charge.

I'd rather spend the money on a good quality well made bag that will last. You don't necessarily need to spend thousands for that. I have bags ranging from the low hundreds to one that was couple of thousand and expect to use them for years to come.

It is absolutely true. I'm not going to name names, but a LOT of 'designer' bags are at least partly made in China, as are a lot of 'designer' watches.

I agree with you about cheap high street bags. I don't buy them either, but you can get a good quality leather bag for well under 200 euros.

ceadaoin. · 12-11-2015 12:04am

LeeLooLee wrote: »

It is absolutely true. I'm not going to name names, but a LOT of 'designer' bags are at least partly made in China, as are a lot of 'designer' watches.

I agree with you about cheap high street bags. I don't buy them either, but you can get a good quality leather bag for well under 200 euros.

I'm sure the likes of Michael kors and Marc by Marc Jacobs are made very cheaply, But they aren't that expensive and definitely not that great quality wise. The actual high end bags that cost thousands are very well made and not in sweatshops.

LeeLooLee · 12-11-2015 12:06am

ceadaoin. wrote: »

I'm sure the likes of Michael kors and Marc by Marc Jacobs are made very cheaply, But they aren't that expensive and definitely not that great quality wise. The actual high end bags that cost thousands are very well made and not in sweatshops.

And how do you know that?

XR3i · 12-11-2015 12:08am

$1,000,000

ceadaoin. · 12-11-2015 12:13am

LeeLooLee wrote: »

And how do you know that?

Well first of all I can look at my LV and Chanel bags and they state 'Made in USA/Italy' respectively. I can also Google where are LV/Chanel/Dior/insert designer bags made and it will tell me. I've also read articles in the past about how the bags are made and the skilled craftspeople that do it. But I guess they are lying about all that and making them in China really? How do you know this?

LeeLooLee · 12-11-2015 12:22am

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Well first of all I can look at my LV and Chanel bags and they state 'Made in USA/Italy' respectively. I can also Google where are LV/Chanel/Dior/insert designer bags made and it will tell me. I've also read articles in the past about how the bags are made and the skilled craftspeople that do it. But I guess they are lying about all that and making them in China really? How do you know this?

Very naive.

Most companies don't broadcast to the world that they manufacture in China, especially if they're charging customers thousands of euros! Of course they want you to believe that you're buying an exclusive product which takes a skilled European craftsperson on a high salary hours to make. The 'Made in X' statements can be very misleading because it's perfectly legal to put that even if 90% of the product was made in China and it was only 'finished' in Europe.

I know quite a bit about this because of my previous work, which is why I'm confident about telling you that this is all totally true. Bear in mind I never mentioned sweatshops. I said 'factories'. And the Chinese who make these products are skilled craftspeople, or the designers wouldn't use them and the bags wouldn't look as they do. It's just not as prestigious to have Made in China on the inside of the bag, is it?

meeeeh · 12-11-2015 12:25am

While I absolutely agree that quality is good investment, it is good investment only for those who can afford it. Handbags are luxury also in the sense that unlike food, mortgage or whatever they are not essential. I don't like the attitude that those who buy are idiots just paying for the badge, but I also don't agree that buying expensive bags is just about quality and those carrying around something plastic from Penny's can appreciate quality. Sometimes it's the choice we make about what we can spend money on or quality in what we want to buy. Also I don't want to go all kids are starving in Africa, but those who can afford to save for a couple of grand worth of a bag are in minority. I guess I just don't like snobbery in one or the other direction.

Edit: oh and there are plenty of independent smaller workshops, designers that are producing stuff locally, not luxury brands.

meeeeh · 12-11-2015 12:32am

LeeLooLee wrote: »

It is absolutely true. I'm not going to name names, but a LOT of 'designer' bags are at least partly made in China, as are a lot of 'designer' watches.

I think you should name names. Saying "a lot" says just as much as you claim "made in" does. (And yes I know what the point about made in was).

ceadaoin. · 12-11-2015 12:38am

LeeLooLee wrote: »

Very naive.

Most companies don't broadcast to the world that they manufacture in China, especially if they're charging customers thousands of euros! Of course they want you to believe that you're buying an exclusive product which takes a skilled European craftsperson on a high salary hours to make. The 'Made in X' statements can be very misleading because it's perfectly legal to put that even if 90% of the product was made in China and it was only 'finished' in Europe.

I know quite a bit about this because of my previous work, which is why I'm confident about telling you that this is all totally true. Bear in mind I never mentioned sweatshops. I said 'factories'. And the Chinese who make these products are skilled craftspeople, or the designers wouldn't use them and the bags wouldn't look as they do. It's just not as prestigious to have Made in China on the inside of the bag, is it?

Well if that's true it's very misleading of those companies to claim that the entire product is made where the label states. I'm sure people would be interested to know which brands you are referring to.

I have several Coach bags that were made in China and it doesn't bother me. The quality is very good.

LeeLooLee · 12-11-2015 12:47am

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Well if that's true it's very misleading of those companies to claim that the entire product is made where the label states. I'm sure people would be interested to know which brands you are referring to.

I have several Coach bags that were made in China and it doesn't bother me. The quality is very good.

Yes, but that's business. I honestly thought everyone knew this. I just googled quickly and apparently Prada are now being quite open about their products being made in China. http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304231204576403680967866692

They charge a lot of money for their bags.

meeeeh · 12-11-2015 12:52am

I think it's the whole breaded chicken debate. You can buy chicken in Thailand and stick breadcrumbs on in Ireland and claim it's Irish chicken. However I don't believe that really high end brands do that. Mark up on those products is very high any way and making sure they truly sell people luxury is part of the brand strategy.

Edit: Prada like must brands has higher and lower priced collections and as far as I can see 20% include also clothing and shoes.

ceadaoin. · 12-11-2015 12:58am

LeeLooLee wrote: »

Yes, but that's business. I honestly thought everyone knew this. I just googled quickly and apparently Prada are now being quite open about their products being made in China. http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304231204576403680967866692

They charge a lot of money for their bags.

Like you said, prada are open about manufacturing in China. I wouldn't really consider them truly high end. Of course, they are expensive but they have plenty of lower priced options and I've seen prada bags in outlet stores which presumably are made for outlet.

Gucci, Hermes, Chanel, Dior, Louis Vuitton, bottega Veneta, fendi for example all claim to be 100% made in Europe or the U.S. It's a pretty big deal if they are in fact lying about that.

LeeLooLee · 12-11-2015 1:13am

meeeeh wrote: »

I think it's the whole breaded chicken debate. You can buy chicken in Thailand and stick breadcrumbs on in Ireland and claim it's Irish chicken. However I don't believe that really high end brands do that. Mark up on those products is very high any way and making sure they truly sell people luxury is part of the brand strategy.

Edit: Prada like must brands has higher and lower priced collections and as far as I can see 20% include also clothing and shoes.

They do do that. Not ALL of them, but a lot of them. Watch makers too.

efb · 12-11-2015 1:13am

€3.50

LeeLooLee · 12-11-2015 1:18am

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Like you said, prada are open about manufacturing in China. I wouldn't really consider them truly high end. Of course, they are expensive but they have plenty of lower priced options and I've seen prada bags in outlet stores which presumably are made for outlet.

Gucci, Hermes, Chanel, Dior, Louis Vuitton, bottega Veneta, fendi for example all claim to be 100% made in Europe or the U.S. It's a pretty big deal if they are in fact lying about that.

Did you miss the bit where it said the Chinese-made stuff is often sold at the same price as the Italian-made stuff?

I dont think many brands do claim to be 100% made in Europe/US. Most just put the 'Made in Italy' label on when only a small part of manufacturing is done there. Just found this article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/23/opinion/23thomas.html?_r=0

It explains what I said about the label thing.

meeeeh · 12-11-2015 1:26am

LeeLooLee wrote: »

Did you miss the bit where it said the Chinese-made stuff is often sold at the same price as the Italian-made stuff?

I dont think many brands do claim to be 100% made in Europe/US. Most just put the 'Made in Italy' label on when only a small part of manufacturing is done there. Just found this article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/23/opinion/23thomas.html?_r=0

It explains what I said about the label thing.

Why would they charge less, it's not like Chinese can't do craftsmanship, it's weather they are willing to do it. Besides are you suggesting they should check the production cost of each separate shoe and then add 80% mark up to that instead of looking at the cost in total and deciding on the price.

Btw 450 $ really isn't price of high end Prada shoes, it's probably Prada sport.

LeeLooLee · 12-11-2015 1:30am

meeeeh wrote: »

Why would they charge less, it's not like Chinese can't do craftsmanship, it's weather they are willing to do it. Besides are you suggesting they should check the production cost of each separate shoe and then add 80% mark up to that instead of looking at the cost in total and deciding on the price.

Btw 450 $ really isn't price of high end Prada shoes.

You're changing the subject now but to answer your question about why they would charge less, well because production is much cheaper in China, obviously, so they could pass that onto the customer, but they don't. $450 was an example of one type of shoe they make in both China and Italy.

bscm · 12-11-2015 1:33am

LeeLooLee wrote: »

Did you miss the bit where it said the Chinese-made stuff is often sold at the same price as the Italian-made stuff?

Because in some cases you are paying for decades of unique techniques and styles, and possibly patents or legally protected aspects of their goods production.

There's a reason knockoffs can easily be spotted, obviously a very small number are cleverly made, but it's hard to not value and see that some brands have used the same stencils, stitching styles, and even suppliers for up to 60 years* (sometimes longer).

*as my educational background is in science, I feel obliged to justify that figure with the Chanel 2.55 bag, original release date February 1955. Although Chanel are mainly made in workshops in Europe and the US, verifiable by their press and public days into the craftsmanship of their leather goods.

meeeeh · 12-11-2015 1:41am

LeeLooLee wrote: »

You're changing the subject now but to answer your question about why they would charge less, well because production is much cheaper in China, obviously, so they could pass that onto the customer, but they don't. $450 was an example of one type of shoe they make in both China and Italy.

But why would they? If anything they should pay Chinese more. Price of goods is usually determined by what people are prepared to pay and not by how much profit one should make.

LeeLooLee · 12-11-2015 1:48am

meeeeh wrote: »

But why would they? If anything they should pay Chinese more. Price of goods is usually determined by what people are prepared to pay and not by how much profit one should make.

This discussion started by someone saying they pay a lot for bags because they are handmade in Europe. I stated that this isn't true and after I was challenged about that, I posted some evidence. I'm sure a lot of the people paying thousands for 'designer' bags thinking they are handmade in Europe, with European labour costs and wages would not be too pleased to discover the truth. You started off by saying you didn't even believe that this happened.

ceadaoin. · 12-11-2015 2:01am

LeeLooLee wrote: »

This discussion started by someone saying they pay a lot for bags because they are handmade in Europe. I stated that this isn't true and after I was challenged about that, I posted some evidence. I'm sure a lot of the people paying thousands for 'designer' bags thinking they are handmade in Europe, with European labour costs and wages would not be too pleased to discover the truth. You started off by saying you didn't even believe that this happened.

But you haven't named the brands you say are at least partly made in China. The article you linked to names prada, which is already open about manufacturing in China, and Burberry which I don't think anyone ever thought was handmade in European workshops.

The Gucci website states that 100% of its leather goods, shoes and ready to wear is produced in Florence. That doesn't mean that other products aren't produced elsewhere but we are discussing handbags and most of those would be included in leather goods.

I haven't seen any evidence that bags from Chanel, Dior or Hermes are made anywhere other than it is claimed.

LeeLooLee · 12-11-2015 2:12am

ceadaoin. wrote: »

But you haven't named the brands you say are at least partly made in China. The article you linked to names prada, which is already open about manufacturing in China, and Burberry which I don't think anyone ever thought was handmade in European workshops.

The Gucci website states that 100% of its leather goods, shoes and ready to wear is produced in Florence. That doesn't mean that other products aren't produced elsewhere but we are discussing handbags and most of those would be included in leather goods.

I haven't seen any evidence that bags from Chanel, Dior or Hermes are made anywhere other than it is claimed.

That NY Times article alleged that Gucci manufactures in China. You're saying now that Prada are open about their factories in China, but you previously said that high end designers do not use Chinese manufacturing and Prada are most definitely considered high end.

And, by the way, "100% of its leather goods, shoes and ready to wear is produced in Florence" is not the same as "leather goods, shoes and ready to wear is 100% produced in Florence".

As I have stated multiple times now, it's totally legal to claim that your products are made in Europe when only the finishing touches are put on in Europe, after the product is shipped from China. The brands who admit to using Chinese factories are ones who have ALL the manufacturing done there and put 'Made in China' labels on the goods. The ones who prefer to hide that they have manufacturing done in Asia can, totally legally, claim 'Made in Italy/France Spain'.

ceadaoin. · 12-11-2015 6:08am

LeeLooLee wrote: »

That NY Times article alleged that Gucci manufactures in China. You're saying now that Prada are open about their factories in China, but you previously said that high end designers do not use Chinese manufacturing and Prada are most definitely considered high end.

Well honestly, I didn't have prada in mind when I said that. Personally, I don't like their designs and from reading the purse forum, I know that they have quality issues on a lot of their new bags. They also operate differently from many other high end design houses in that they have cheaper lines and allow their products to be sold at outlets. So for me, I guess when I think of top tier designers, I don't think prada. But yes, you are right, they are a high end designer that manufacture in China.

meeeeh · 12-11-2015 6:27am

You do know that Prada group own Prada, Prada Sport (or something like that) and Miu Miu and at least one more of own lines? Some are cheaper and some are more prestigious. They also took over some of others. All you proved is that 20% of manufacturing is done in China and some more elsewhere in Asia. But you can't even tell for what products or lines. Ok we know about one sandal and btw the point about price was that it was most likelyn one of the cheaper lines.

You make all this claims that I am sure are true, but they are true only because they are very unspecified. What luxury watches are made in Asia, Armani costing 500 Euro, Breitling costing five thousand or ten thousand euro Rolex? Btw speaking of watches, one of my cousins is licensed for servicing and repairing high end watches. He trained in and visited factories like Breitling , Rolex or Patek (in Switzerland not China) and he always maintains that there is huge difference in quality. I know he got licence for Rolex later than for some others and said he was amazed how much better their quality is in comparison to some other luxury brands. Btw I know nothing about watches but I did manage to learn that isn't just marketing that sets the price points for different brands.

God I hate it when I have trouble sleeping.

LeeLooLee · 12-11-2015 2:08pm

meeeeh wrote: »

You do know that Prada group own Prada, Prada Sport (or something like that) and Miu Miu and at least one more of own lines? Some are cheaper and some are more prestigious. They also took over some of others. All you proved is that 20% of manufacturing is done in China and some more elsewhere in Asia. But you can't even tell for what products or lines. Ok we know about one sandal and btw the point about price was that it was most likelyn one of the cheaper lines.

You make all this claims that I am sure are true, but they are true only because they are very unspecified. What luxury watches are made in Asia, Armani costing 500 Euro, Breitling costing five thousand or ten thousand euro Rolex? Btw speaking of watches, one of my cousins is licensed for servicing and repairing high end watches. He trained in and visited factories like Breitling , Rolex or Patek (in Switzerland not China) and he always maintains that there is huge difference in quality. I know he got licence for Rolex later than for some others and said he was amazed how much better their quality is in comparison to some other luxury brands. Btw I know nothing about watches but I did manage to learn that isn't just marketing that sets the price points for different brands.

God I hate it when I have trouble sleeping.

Yes, I do know that. What you're not getting here is that the Prada thing is the tip of the iceberg. I would say the vast majority of high end brands have at least part of their manufacturing done in Asia. In addition to that, a lot of the manufacturing in Europe is done by Chinese immigrants for very, very low pay.
http://articles.latimes.com/2008/feb/20/world/fg-madeinitaly20

I can't really be specific because of confidentiality issues but yes, watches costing tens of thousands of euros are mostly made in Asia (not specifically China) and then finished in Switzerland. Of course the Swiss don't want people to know this; the 'Swiss made' label is hugely important to their economy. Of course they have factories in Switzerland because they do do work there, but it doesn't mean a lot of manufacturing isn't outsourced.

meeeeh · 12-11-2015 2:44pm

LeeLooLee wrote: »

Yes, I do know that. What you're not getting here is that the Prada thing is the tip of the iceberg. I would say the vast majority of high end brands have at least part of their manufacturing done in Asia. In addition to that, a lot of the manufacturing in Europe is done by Chinese immigrants for very, very low pay.
http://articles.latimes.com/2008/feb/20/world/fg-madeinitaly20

Hate to break it to you but that is not just practice in fashion. Those work abuses are fairly common among Chinese in Europe and far from unique to fashion industry. Chances are your local Chinese has couple of employees like that.

I am not going to argue about watches, firstly because I don't care where they are made and secondly know way to little about the subject. But from everything you wrote we still have to solely rely on your word.

LeeLooLee wrote: »

This discussion started by someone saying they pay a lot for bags because they are handmade in Europe. I stated that this isn't true and after I was challenged about that, I posted some evidence. I'm sure a lot of the people paying thousands for 'designer' bags thinking they are handmade in Europe, with European labour costs and wages would not be too pleased to discover the truth. You started off by saying you didn't even believe that this happened.

I just spotted this. Nowhere I claimed I don't believe they are made in Asia, however I am not a great fan of 'trust me I know' statements or 'a lot do it'. One demands belief in statements of someone on internet that we know nothing about and a lot can mean 3 or almost everybody and everything.

lazygal · 12-11-2015 3:27pm

LeeLooLee wrote: »

Yes, I do know that. What you're not getting here is that the Prada thing is the tip of the iceberg. I would say the vast majority of high end brands have at least part of their manufacturing done in Asia. In addition to that, a lot of the manufacturing in Europe is done by Chinese immigrants for very, very low pay.
http://articles.latimes.com/2008/feb/20/world/fg-madeinitaly20

I can't really be specific because of confidentiality issues but yes, watches costing tens of thousands of euros are mostly made in Asia (not specifically China) and then finished in Switzerland. Of course the Swiss don't want people to know this; the 'Swiss made' label is hugely important to their economy. Of course they have factories in Switzerland because they do do work there, but it doesn't mean a lot of manufacturing isn't outsourced.

You're throwing out a lot of claims, then posting that because of confidentiality issues you can't back anything up with specifics. That's not really the way to win a debate. Are you working on behalf of high end brands with shady manufacturing processes or something?

What is the most you would pay for a handbag

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