Childfree by choice forum

For now, it's a -1 from me. This request came up several years ago, and the same cons (from a Boards.ie forum management perspective) still hold true today - https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057249364

I completely respect and even admire the child-free movement, it's high time people had the balls to go against social norms & expectations by not bringing children into the world if they don't choose to. It's a fundamental right for people to be able to exercise their freedoms like this, and more power to them.

BUT....in terms of a discussion forum, the scope of childfree-by-choice is simply far too vast to properly house it here - it ranges across all subjects & topics, fundamentally becoming a forum for any & all subjects minus children. I get that it'd be nice to have a community of likeminded individuals who 'have your back' in the face of what must be eye rolling social pressure to have children...but that alone wouldn't sustain a full forum. I quickly see such a forum becoming a ghost town. Similarly, it's too big a scope to be housed into one thread.

Personally, I think the 'live & let live' approach should be applied to existing forums, to advocate for peoples right to choose...should it come up naturally in conversation. Childfree-by-choice shouldn't need to be buried in some small little forum, it should be out there at the coal-face of any & all discussions where relevant.

Faith wrote: »

This argument was made on the previous thread too and it genuinely doesn't make sense to me. Perhaps I'm missing something obviously, but the argument could be applied to anything. For example, children are part and parcel of society so why should we possibly need a Parenting forum? Just looking at the first few threads in the Parenting forum right now:
"Smart watch For a 6 year old." - Watches & Time Pieces forum
"Access and birth cert" - Legal Discussion
"10 year old with no interest in reading" - Literature forum
"What your child did/said that made you smile today" - After Hours/Sunshine, Lollipops & Rainbows forum . Just because people have kids doesn't mean they need their own forum to discuss the children when plenty of forums already exist that cater for them, by the above argument. Next, plenty of forums exist based on the absence of something, for example:
* Vegan & Vegetarian - shared interest in the absence of meat and animals products in one's life
* Atheism & Agnosticism - shared interest in the belief of a lack of a god
* Non-drinkers group - shared interest in not drinking alcohol
* Oulwans and Oulfellas - absence of youth
etc
To be more flippant, the LGBT forum could be defined as absence of heterosexuality!
Like any forum, it won't appeal to all but there's a strong childfree community out there who manage to find plenty of things to talk about! Finally, being childfree is not about "absence" and actually, to suggest that is really missing the point ...

I think you are mixing up actual forums and comments / queries there. I see some extraneous stuff too. But no matter.

This was my main point from the previous comment

gozunda wrote:

... a forum defined on the absence or the flip side of something - is at best a difficult foundation for discussion.

For example - a forum for those who don't support or play football - would quickly devolve or simply die.

That doesn't suggest that forums such as the 'parenting forum' are somehow extraneous.

You state that "Just because people have kids doesn't mean they need their own forum to discuss the children when plenty of forums already exist that cater for them..."

Unfortunately at best that is an example of an reductio ad absurdum argument and continues all the way up to why bother with existing forums or with boards at all?

As a best guess "why should we possibly need a Parenting forum?" would be for parents to discuss children and family matters with other parents. Fairly simple tbh.

Just as those who have cars
or who play sports have dedicated forums to discuss same.

The collerary of that is that such interest groups they generally do not define themselves as "non bike owners" or "non couch potatoes" forums for example. Those who only eat certain foods or only vegetables obviously can form interests groups on that basis ditto without having to make out that they are primarily about what "doesn't" define them. For example - being mature does not equate to an 'absence of youth'

As far as I can see much of what you've argued above as already been dealt with in the other thread. But to clarify your examples of specific comments - it is of note some of these belong to specific forum' for the reason that they involve children interests

And as also detailed - too often (though not necessarily always) such types of discussion which are more predicated on the 'negative' (to purloin a photography term) could indeed become a 'toxic dumpster fire" full of people specifically abusing other - as in your example a child free discussion forum where for example -

"people abusing others for making the choice to have children and using derogatory language around parents and children" etc

Not something that is particularly desirous tbh.

Noodles81 wrote: »

+1

-1

Actually make that

-2

for Mrs 99

As a father of an 18 month old who I didn't need but now I'd set myself on fire to keep warm, I think it's a great idea.

I don't personally see the need for yet another dead forum, that will at best have the same six posters doling out "advice"

+1

I think there is scope here for a wider, lifestyle type forum. I made a decision to live my life childfree - I think there are positive ramifications and also questions to be raised within a like minded community.

Deleted User wrote: »

.

It could turn into a bustling little metropolis of a forum (or it could be a waste of time) but I'd definitely be in favour of letting it have a year or so to see does it turn into anything of worth.

It's not going to turn into a bustling forum. Like you point out, such a forum will have three or four "big" threads that cover the entirety of this topic, and a few other threads where posters ask specific questions.

The forum, like all small niche forums will revolve around a small group of sages that will dole out the advice and talk to themselves, generally agreeing with one another.

You might wonder why I'd be against setting up an experiment like this? Well having loads of small dead forums kill discussion sites.. It's far better to have fewer more general but busier forums than loads of quiet niche ones.

If anything, the site should be closing and consolidating sub-forums than opening new ones.

+1 from me.

HBC08 wrote: »

What about poor Bert?

It's a +1 for me.

Maybe Bert has 4 legs?

+1 for me.

At the risk of upsetting a load of apple carts, I would think that this:

Faith wrote: »

* To chat with like-minded people socially

is probably the strongest argument against creating such a forum. It's pretty much the very definition of a social media bubble, and contrary to the spirit of a broad-based discussion platform like boards.ie

I'll admit that I'm struggling to understand how anyone who has chosen the child-free life could find themselves so suffocated by children, children, everywhere that they need a safe space to talk about not having children? I am (involuntarily) leading a child-free life at the moment (they grew up and left! :pac: ) and I think my only boards.ie contribution in several months that's referred to them in any way was an oblique reference to citizenship application in the Brexit thread.

Other than that, surely it is overall more positive to have some contrary views on any particular query (child-free hotels, child-free trains, child-free restaurants, child-free festivals ... ) that help to guide one's decision-making? There's a question in the Entrepreneur forum today about the practicalities of adding a vegetarian café to an arts-and-crafts business. I would say that's a far better place to get balanced, realistic advice for that particular query than in Vegetarian forum.

And I'd agree with osarusan: putting childfree-by-choice discussions into the same category as can't-have-children conversations is seriously disturbed logic!

Faith wrote: »

Again, it's missing the point to suggest that it would just be a forum for recommendations about child free XYZ, and I would respectfully suggest that interpretation stems from not recognising the complexities that can be associated with choosing not to have children - things like social pressures, social isolation, worries about the future, fears about regret, and a multitude of others.

This is precisely the part that, to me, seems particularly inappropriate to "wall off" in a childfree forum. Taking social isolation as an example, especially in (but not limited to) the current context - it's entirely possible to be struggle with social isolation even if one does have children: they might be stranded somewhere else, they might not care about you, they might be dead ...

and if social isolation is really that much of a problem, is it because you have no other friends or neighbours, you're working from home and don't meet work colleagues, you're struggling without your weekly round of pints ... ?

Even if a thread was kept to "social isolation affecting child-free people, you're still looking at young adults who haven't yet thought about having children, or the guy whose faithful bethrothed is be stuck on the far side of the world and he can't make them alone, or the career-oriented woman who child-free by choice.

For any given topic, chances are you can take the "child" bit out of the question, replace it with some other adjective and find a thread on it in Personal Issues or Work & Employment. On those threads, by and large the contributors will completely respect any poster who indicates that they don't have and don't (immediately/ever) want children, and the simple fact of having children doesn't make their advice irrelevant. This is why I'd ask: what is the advantage of hiding any such questions in an obscure corner of the site?

+1

As someone who has never wanted kids, it's been a struggle to keep some friendships alive when they have kids, so a social online space of like minded people is a great idea.

cee_jay wrote: »

+1

As someone who has never wanted kids, it's been a struggle to keep some friendships alive when they have kids, so a social online space of like minded people is a great idea.

If that's the purpose, well this idea is on a hiding to nothing. Notwithstanding the fact that this forum, if it comes into being will end up being a bitter old ghost town, defined by a negative, relationships in online forums through pseudonyms are never going to replace quality in-person friendships.

+1

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I didn't abuse anyone, thanks.

This site has so many sub-forums it's ended up that any conversation can now be categorized as more rightly belonging in some dead corner of the site. It's one of the reasons the site is dying. For example take tattoos and piercing forum, which in sure someone thought was a great idea, like this one. If I wanted advice on this topic I would have to go in that zombie forum, or would be moved there by a zealous mod (as you are not allowed to post for traffic), killing the discussion.

Normally for the creation of sub-forums there is consistent production of threads in another forum that could be considered to fall under that topic. Aside from this thread, I haven't seen any childless by choice threads, anywhere on the site, so there certainly isn't enough to fill a forum. Can you show us, as the proposer, say 10-15 threads created in the last six months that would've ended up moved to your new forum?

If the idea is to create a space for like minded people to gather to chat then perhaps a FB group is more appropriate. Oh wait, that exists and is dead...

I don’t imagine the idea or purpose of the proposed forum is intended solely as a place where people who are interested or curious about a lifestyle can go to looking for advice as to how to go about that lifestyle. I would see it as intended as a place where people who live that lifestyle already can relate to each other on just that one single aspect of their lives, while being able to talk about other aspects of their lives or activities without feeling the constant looming of what is literally inevitable for anyone who doesn’t have children - “have you ever thought about having children?”, “you’ll change your mind!”, “I’m here to change your mind!”, etc. It’s frickin’ tedious and it’s not interesting to the person or people who have to explain or entertain or engage with people whom they know view people who don’t want children as having something wrong with them or needing to be “fixed”, or their lives are unfulfilled and they couldn’t possibly be happy until or unless they have children. To use your example - it’s like someone who has no interest in tattoos being constantly bombarded with questions and pressure from people who think tattoos are the bees knees and everyone should have at least one or they’re not normal.

Evidence of existing interest in a forum for like minded people who have no interest in having children is something of an impossibility given the nature of the idea of not having children, it’s almost unheard of as to be looked at as being completely unreasonable, unacceptable. That’s why you don’t see many, or indeed any threads discussing the idea being particularly popular - because often people aren’t comfortable with feeling like they have to justify themselves or their decisions to people whom they know just won’t get it, and have no interest in getting it, those people just want a “debate”, and that’s not the purpose of the forum as I understand it.

There are numerous, and I mean numerous threads debating the whole concept of “children - to have or not to have, or is it better not to have had at all?” kinda nonsense, frankly. Loads of threads across the site in various forums, and it’s only going to become more topical and current given there is a growing anti-natalist movement has attached itself to the concept of climate change to further their ideology. They’re a completely different breed altogether though (forgive the pun) from people who don’t have anything against people with children and don’t have any interest in discouraging people from having children. It’s those people would be directed to the more appropriate forum if they want to have that particular discussion (I’ll be banned from CA for suggesting it’s a more appropriate forum, but feck it :pac:). It’s no different than directing anti-vegans or anti-theists to a more appropriate forum, as the forum isn’t intended nor appropriate for people who are anti-children, and in my experience people who don’t have any interest in having children doesn’t mean they are anti-children. In my experience it’s rather people who have children who are anti-children, though I’ve never entertained them long enough to figure out what that’s about tbh, because frankly it’s not a point of view I find particularly interesting enough to warrant further investigation.

The idea IS to create a space where like-minded people can chat and associate freely without fear of judgement or having to justify themselves to new posters who just wandered in and didn’t bother to read the charter or anything else, and in response to my earlier post, Faith touched on this when they said that it would be a live and let live forum, which is a good thing IMO, and I imagine any of the sort of “conflict creators” who are doing it just for the hell of a “debate”, wouldn’t be entertained, any more than they aren’t entertained in other forums and a stop is put to their behaviour rather quickly. It’s much easier to do that in a community of like-minded people in the format that Boards provides, than it is to do it on any other medium such as Facebook, Twitter or any of the many, many other mediums there are to choose from such as Reddit or blogs or community driven sites - Boards is somewhat unique in that it allows for a smaller, closer-knit community of like-minded people to participate in discussions and engage and enjoy sharing their opinions and their perspectives without being overwhelmed by trolls and figuring like many of the members of the dead Facebook group that it’s simply not worth it to try and use Facebooks platform as a means to meet other like-minded people and chat about everything without having to think about the children.

-1 from me.
Can't see the scope.

+1 from me.