Scientology Protest Jan 25

Anahita wrote: »

Protest Scientology in Ireland

Saturday, January 25th 11am-5pm

Dublin Org

See: further details:
www.anonireland.com


January 25th, 2014 from 11am to 5pm – ‘Church’ of Scientology Mission of Dublin Ltd, 64 Middle Abbey Street, Dublin 1

https://whyweprotest.net/community/t...reland.116240/

Show them they are NOT welcome to use Ireland to promote their evil dangerous cult!!

https://whyweprotest.net/community/t...reland.116240/

Just leave em

Don't know what I find more annoying

Scientology or the ones protesting against it

But Scientology uses all sorts of manipulative tricks to brainwash people!

Catholicism on the other hand...

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Why do people protest against it? It's a loopy religion! It's hardly on its own there though, every religion is loopy. Scientology is an easy target it seems because it is new. Why is what it teaches any more insane than any of the older, more established religions? Think about how Christianity would look if it had sprung up suddenly in the last 50 years without the proceeding millenniums of mass indoctrination and social power it has enjoyed. It would seem highly rational and logical as a new concept I am sure! I don't see why believing in aliens is any more insane than believing wafers turn to actual flesh after a priest has put a magic spell on it.

Loopy doesn't describe them but if people want to join them leave em, My thought is that all the protest/opposition against religion/cult is starting to get religious itself

I think the protests are a good thing. They won't make a dent in persuading Scientologists to leave but it will keep the public aware that the organisation is dangerous.

It's only the institution I have an issue with, I think the surge in independent scientologists is a great thing because they have a focus on providing the same classes and crap for far cheaper/free than COS. It's kind of like open source scientology. With none of the emphasis on destroying its enemies and infiltrating governments.

Cabaal wrote: »

You just want to label everything as a religion so its suits you don't you?,

No i can use the word fanatics if that suits you better

And how would it suit me ? Other then having an opinion on the subject

Cabaal wrote: »

You understand that anonymous is not any sort of religion right?
Its just a group of people that decide to do different things now and then, kind of like 4chan users do at times.,

You do realize you don't need to be in a religion to brainwash people.

I believe you could be in more trouble if you join Anonymous then the Scientology

Cabaal wrote: »

You don't need to join anonymous to protest against a cult/religion.,

No .. A Guy fawkes mask will do .... They are doing it for the lulz

I don't protest the Scientology organisation because of their beliefs. I protest them because:
- They have ruined countless lives.
- They have financially bankrupted countless people.
- They have destroyed families.
- They continuously target and harass people who expose their actions.

It doesn't matter whether you are in Dublin or Detroit, wherever the Scientology organisation is you have the same trail of broken families, financial exploitation and ruined lives. The extent to which this organisation ruins lives is much greater than many people realise, and certainly much more than those who think the issue has anything to do with beliefs or religion.

When you meet people who can tell you their personal experiences of the organisation, ranging from coerced abortions to being driven totally suicidal, you start to ignore the 'loopiness' of the beliefs and start to realise that this organisation is a money-making racket that exploits humanity and ruins lives.

Every time I hear or see someone bring up crap like "....i think the fight against religion/cult is starting to look like a religion on its own..." I cringe at their ignorance - and then contemplate at how ignorance of that type has allowed such an abusive manipulative dangerous organisation to continue operating.

We held a conference in Dublin in 2012 where ex-members and families shared their stories:
http://exscientologistsireland.org/wp/introduction/

Compare the testimonies given at the conference with claptrap like this: "....i think the fight against religion/cult is starting to look like a religion on its own..."

Galvasean wrote: »

I think the Bible easily matches the Scientology story in terms of zaniness. Talking horses, people being brought back from the dead... heck, the entire planet floods at one point.

I said Catholicism. Catholics, even Pope, don't think most of those stories literally happened!:p

Jernal wrote: »

I said Catholicism. Catholics, even Pope, don't think most of those stories literally happened!:p

I wonder if in the future we'll have branches of scientology saying they don't believe all their stories and that they're just metaphors and so on. I know this comes across as trying to poke fun, but I spend a fair bit of time thinking about stuff like this :pac:

kult wrote: »

This is what any other religion does to people anyway.

Except that the vast majority of other groups and organisations don't. Seriously, how many groups can you name that ruin people's lives as thoroughly as Scientology does? Genuinely, how many groups even come close to the exploitation and harms that Scientology perpetrates?

Example: When a person was convinced by Scientology they could cure them of their hepatitis and scammed them for thousands of euro, the level of harm such actions have is incalculable. How many groups do you know that do this type of stuff in Ireland?

With all due respect, you really don't know what your talking about if think the level and severity of harms regularly committed by the Scientology organisation are commonplace in other groups (whether religious or not).

themadhair wrote: »

Except that the vast majority of other groups and organisations don't. Seriously, how many groups can you name that ruin people's lives as thoroughly as Scientology does? Genuinely, how many groups even come close to the exploitation and harms that Scientology perpetrates?

Plenty of religions do, they're just more accepted in society. There have been numerous wars over religion.

Example: When a person was convinced by Scientology they could cure them of their hepatitis and scammed them for thousands of euro, the level of harm such actions have is incalculable. How many groups do you know that do this type of stuff in Ireland?

And are the various tales told among Catholics about holy places which can miraculously cure you really any different? I remember in religion class in secondary school having to listen to a priest tell us about people who have been cured at lourdes and other such nonsense.

With all due respect, you really don't know what your talking about if think the level and severity of harms regularly committed by the Scientology organisation are commonplace in other groups (whether religious or not).

The main difference with scientology is they take more money off people. I'd argue the Catholic church has done significantly more harm in this country than scientology has. I think you're deluding yourself, for whatever reasons, if you think otherwise.

themadhair wrote: »

You've just proved my point. You recognise all of the abuses you have listed as being wrong and that such have no place in society. So, I would imagine, you should be capable of understanding why any group committing such abuses should be publically exposed and their abuses robustly challenged.

So why are you so determined to ignore the Scientology organisation and the litany of abuses they CONTINUE to commit...????


Please name specific groups currently committing harms in Ireland that rival those of Scientology. I do not believe that other groups commit financial exploitation on the same level of Scientology, I do not believe they commit the same level of horrors as Scientology's 'Rehabilitation Project Force', and I do not believe they have anywhere near the level of mental and psychological ruination bestowed on people.

Again, the Catholic church. They still haven't answered properly for their many crimes, the most recent obviously being the child abuse scandal. There's also the fact they campaigned against abortion legislation, so we can count denial of human rights in there as well. Another key difference is scientology is at the moment, thankfully seen as an 'out there' cult, while the church has the advantage of being an institution people turn to.

If you feel different then listing specific examples of where groups are doing such in Ireland would be very helpful, otherwise it really does seem as if you are failing to grasp quite how severe the harm the Scientology organisation is reeking of their members and their families.

Not at all. I think their organisation is despicable, and would love to see them driven out. I just think the same charges should be levelled at all such organisations.

Yes. In the vast majority of groups (including Catholicism) there is little or no attempt to talk people out of seeking genuine treatment. In the vast majority of groups are not made to believe that their ills are caused by their inability/refusal to correctly and fully apply the group's dogma. The vast majority of groups do not actively and concertedly attempt to peddle all sorts of conspiracy theories against mainstream medicine (with Scientology's visceral conspiracies against psychiatric medicine being the most blatant example).

Even if there is little attempt made to talk people out of seeking genuine treatment, the fact remains that they are peddaling bogus cures, and giving people false hope. I'm not sure why you seem so keen to play down the flaws of one organisation while being so strongly against those of another.

Comparing stories of healings at Lourdes with the intense pressure, emotional blackmail, psychological coercion and constant 'regging' (Scientology term for bullying people out of money) that regularly occurs in Scientology is incredibly inaccurate. I really do encourage you to do more research on this, because it simply appears as if you are unaware of just how extreme Scientology has taken this. People in Scientology actually get convinced that every illness they suffer is due to them not applying Scientology, and psychological impact of accepting such a harmful self-confirmation-bias is difficult to overstate.

I'm sorry, healings at Lourdes? Care to provide any links to when they actually occured? Your use of language is baffling. You're determined to paint one organisation which has done real harm in this country as benign, while making another out to be the root of all evil. Why? I want to see scientologists answer for their crimes every bit as much as you do, I just don't see why you seem unable to apply the same logic to similar groups.

Actually no, the harms involved cover much more (and in greater severity) than just this.

I am not disagreeing that, historically, the total harms committed by Catholicism is great than the Scientology organisation which has only existed for a number of decades. But since you seem to recognise those past harms, and would presumably seek to challenge the commission of such if attempted today, then why are you so forgiving of harms that Scientology continues to commit in the present day? Are you essentially arguing that because group X did something terrible in the past that group Y, which is committing serious harms in the present day, should be given a completely free pass??? Because, if so, that makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever.

I'm not at all forgiving of scientology. Of course I'm not saying they should be given a free pass, how on earth did you come to that conclusion from anything I've said? I'm saying the same should be applied to all organisations.

I'll pose the same question to you as I did to the other poster - can you cite examples of harms currently being committed by other groups that rival the harms of the Scientology organisation? If the organisation reformed then I'd have no grounds to protest it, but until that happens I've seen no convincing argument from yourself as to why it is sensible to ignore the continuing ruination this organisation brings to both individuals and families. I also fail to see how the crap history of one organisation somehow absolves the current harms and exploitation of another separate organisation - which seems to be the central premise upon which you challenge rests.

Are you implying the church has reformed? Because in recent years we've had them get involved in various political & human rights affairs (Contraceptives, divorce, abortion, gay marriage) along with the very recent child abuse scandal, which they dealt with by, well, doing absolutely nothing. Theres no sign whatsoever of reform. Again you imply I'm saying what they've done in the past absolves scientology, I'm not. I'm saying their crimes are not in the past, and both organisations should have to answer for their crimes. Along with any other organisation doing similar. It's quite simple really.

kult wrote: »

Some people actually believe the bible lmao most of them without even reading it or questioning basic facts haha

kult wrote: »

Christianity is a history of crime, death, raping, destruction, brainwashing etc... every religion is the same, divides people and creates wars, no religion no problem, easy...

kult wrote: »

Why people do not protest against talking snakes, walking on water, talking bushes and more unbelievable nonsense...

kult wrote: »

So why people do not protest against christianity, catholic churches etc, they did more damage than any religion. I see people just pick what they want to protest against , whats the easiest target, catholic church is too big and strong...

Hi Kult,

Moderator here. We're calling to inform you that this type of drive by posting isn't very well tolerated here. This isn't your own personal soapbox. Please contribute actively to the discussion.

Thanking you,
The mod team.

@ Doctor Jimbob

It seems clear that you are going out of your way to misrepresent what I am trying to say, so I'll state my position here clearly and concisely to prevent you from continuing to misrepresent it.

- I am saying that Scientology is a dangerous and deeply harmful organisation, and I base that opinion on a) the hundreds of ex-members of who described being abused in detail, b) the thousands of pages of leaked internal Scientology documentation that lays out the policiess behind these abuse, c) the thousands of pages and hundreds of hours of audio/video from investigative journalists and d) my own researchers into the organistion and contact I have had with current members.

- I have no love for the Catholic Church and strongly believe the organisation should be dismantled for its history, its corruption and the fact that it has lost the moral authority to possess any role of power whatsoever within our country.

- I am saying that people raising the Catholic Church as some sort of reason for why the Scientology organisation should not be protested are either a) totally ignorant of the severity of harm the Scientology organisation causes, or b) forwarding an anti-religion agenda that blinds them from seeing the difference between extremely harmful organisations and other benign (or at least non-harmful) organisations (the vast majority of groups tend not to be harmful, it is only relatively few that develop harmful practices).

- I am saying that, in terms of severity, in present day Ireland when the Scientology organisation ruins a person's life they do so far in excess of almost any other groups, and that in the present day the Catholic Church (despite its horrific, detestable, grotesque history) does not harm an individual as thoroughly as the Scientology organisation does.

I think these should be sufficient clear for you.

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Lourdes etc?

Compare Lourdes with what the Scientology organisation does. Do representatives for Lourdes outnumber and individual, and do they psychologically pound and pound and pound on the person until they folk over thousands of euro? Do such representatives scour through a person's confessional files looking for material that can be used as a psychological lever against a person to try forcing them into handing over the cash? Do those representatives engage in campaigns of ringing and visiting a person to an obsessive level until that person breaks?

The selling or promotion (or even insinuation) of false cures to people who may be ill or desperate is sickening and reprehensible. But you need to realise that while Lourdes is bad, what the Scientology organisation does is much worse than you seem to be aware.

weisses wrote: »

Ddos attacks done by people affiliated to Anonymous caused millions off dollars worth of damage and people went to jail for it

There two few serious misconceptions in this that are worth clearing up.

First, think of 'Anonymous' as a methodology rather than an actual group. Any group of people who use the internet combined with anonymity could be said to be 'Anonymous'. The causes that have utilised this methodology are diverse, ranging from protesting Scientology (which we do at anonireland.org), open source projects, outright trolling, leaking public-interest information, to retaliatory attacks. There is no connection between the different causes other than the methodology.

Second, the claim that DDOS attacks caused 'millions of dollars worth of damage' is laughable. A computer server that hosts a website can only accommodate a finite number of visitors at any one time, and a DDOS uses up the server resources by making bogus requests for website information - the effect of which is to make the website inaccessible to genuine users. The website becomes live again the moment the DDOS stops, but that hasn't stopped many people claiming outrageous damage figures to scare judiciaries. A good analogy would be if enough people protested a shop and jammed the doors. As soon as the protest stopped the doors would be accessible again, with no actual damage causes. A DDOS is, in effect, the online equivalent of en-masse protest that temporary denies access.