Scientology Protest Jan 25

Anahita

Protest Scientology in Ireland

Saturday, January 25th 11am-5pm

Dublin Org

See: further details:
www.anonireland.com


January 25th, 2014 from 11am to 5pm – ‘Church’ of Scientology Mission of Dublin Ltd, 64 Middle Abbey Street, Dublin 1

https://whyweprotest.net/community/t...reland.116240/

Show them they are NOT welcome to use Ireland to promote their evil dangerous cult!!

https://whyweprotest.net/community/t...reland.116240/

Kiwi in IE

Anahita wrote: »

Show them they are NOT welcome to use Ireland to promote their evil dangerous cult!!

There are no current vacancies for the position described above. The RCC hold exclusive rights.

weisses

Anahita wrote: »

Protest Scientology in Ireland

Saturday, January 25th 11am-5pm

Dublin Org

See: further details:
www.anonireland.com


January 25th, 2014 from 11am to 5pm – ‘Church’ of Scientology Mission of Dublin Ltd, 64 Middle Abbey Street, Dublin 1

https://whyweprotest.net/community/t...reland.116240/

Show them they are NOT welcome to use Ireland to promote their evil dangerous cult!!

https://whyweprotest.net/community/t...reland.116240/

Just leave em

Don't know what I find more annoying

Scientology or the ones protesting against it

Kiwi in IE

weisses wrote: »

Just leave em

Don't know what I find more annoying

Scientology or the ones protesting against it

Why do people protest against it? It's a loopy religion! It's hardly on its own there though, every religion is loopy. Scientology is an easy target it seems because it is new. Why is what it teaches any more insane than any of the older, more established religions? Think about how Christianity would look if it had sprung up suddenly in the last 50 years without the proceeding millenniums of mass indoctrination and social power it has enjoyed. It would seem highly rational and logical as a new concept I am sure! I don't see why believing in aliens is any more insane than believing wafers turn to actual flesh after a priest has put a magic spell on it.

Galvasean

But Scientology uses all sorts of manipulative tricks to brainwash people!

Catholicism on the other hand...

Cabaal

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Why do people protest against it? It's a loopy religion! It's hardly on its own there though, every religion is loopy. Scientology is an easy target it seems because it is new. Why is what it teaches any more insane than any of the older, more established religions? Think about how Christianity would look if it had sprung up suddenly in the last 50 years without the proceeding millenniums of mass indoctrination and social power it has enjoyed. It would seem highly rational and logical as a new concept I am sure! I don't see why believing in aliens is any more insane than believing wafers turn to actual flesh after a priest has put a magic spell on it.

I'd rather see people to continue to protest against it, for two very valid reason:

1. To make as many people as possible aware that its run by nutcases, so the numbers stay down.
2. To ensure it doesn't get religion and charitable status in Ireland

Kiwi in IE

Cabaal wrote: »

I'd rather see people to continue to protest against it, for two very valid reason:

1. To make as many people as possible aware that its run by nutcases, so the numbers stay down.
2. To ensure it doesn't get religion and charitable status in Ireland

A fair point. At least there's some hope with Scientology. We are a few thousand years too late to do anything to dissuade people from allowing themselves to be brainwashed by the rest of them.

Galvasean

Perhaps a big dose of Scientology is what Ireland needs to become truly secular? Perhaps one day if a reasonable percentage of Ireland's people, let's say 15%, identified as being Scientologists on the census then the Church of Scientology would start trying to influence the law of the land. Scientologist politicians would start trying to get their jibber-jabber taught in public schools as fact or alternatives to mainstream science etc. People would rally against this, citing that you can't change laws / facts to suit someone's religion. Then they might start applying the same logic to our many laws which are steeped in old school Catholic dogma.

weisses

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Why do people protest against it? It's a loopy religion! It's hardly on its own there though, every religion is loopy. Scientology is an easy target it seems because it is new. Why is what it teaches any more insane than any of the older, more established religions? Think about how Christianity would look if it had sprung up suddenly in the last 50 years without the proceeding millenniums of mass indoctrination and social power it has enjoyed. It would seem highly rational and logical as a new concept I am sure! I don't see why believing in aliens is any more insane than believing wafers turn to actual flesh after a priest has put a magic spell on it.

Loopy doesn't describe them but if people want to join them leave em, My thought is that all the protest/opposition against religion/cult is starting to get religious itself

Pherekydes

weisses wrote: »

Loopy doesn't describe them but if people want to join them leave em, My thought is that all the protest/opposition against religion/cult is starting to get religious itself

So protesting/objecting to religion is itself religion?

Kiwi in IE

Galvasean wrote: »

Perhaps a big dose of Scientology is what Ireland needs to become truly secular? Perhaps one day if a reasonable percentage of Ireland's people, let's say 15%, identified as being Scientologists on the census then the Church of Scientology would start trying to influence the law of the land. Scientologist politicians would start trying to get their jibber-jabber taught in public schools as fact or alternatives to mainstream science etc. People would rally against this, citing that you can't change laws / facts to suit someone's religion. Then they might start applying the same logic to our many laws which are steeped in old school Catholic dogma.

I think generally the more religions there are the better, as the more secular a state has to be to accommodate all of them. At home for example the two largest religions would be Anglican and Catholic at around 15% of the population each. Both of them combined are outnumbered by people who don't identify with any religion. Christians outnumber people with no religion overall, but because there are so many different religions and branches of religions, any potential influence is totally watered down, and secularists outnumber any one religious group. The problems with religious influence here are caused by the fact there is really only one religion that people seem to subscribe to statistically whether they practice or not.

Cabaal

weisses wrote: »

Loopy doesn't describe them but if people want to join them leave em, My thought is that all the protest/opposition against religion/cult is starting to get religious itself

So we should leave them?

I'm not sure family's belong to people who have joined this "religion" and have stopped all communication with family and friends would very much disagree.

Neither am I sure that the people who have left this "religion" who have had their character assassinated by them would also feel the same....hmm character assassinated by a religious organization, where have i heard that one before?

FouxDaFaFa

I think the protests are a good thing. They won't make a dent in persuading Scientologists to leave but it will keep the public aware that the organisation is dangerous.

It's only the institution I have an issue with, I think the surge in independent scientologists is a great thing because they have a focus on providing the same classes and crap for far cheaper/free than COS. It's kind of like open source scientology. With none of the emphasis on destroying its enemies and infiltrating governments.

weisses

Cabaal wrote: »

So we should leave them?

I'm not sure family's belong to people who have joined this "religion" and have stopped all communication with family and friends would very much disagree.

Neither am I sure that the people who have left this "religion" who have had their character assassinated by them would also feel the same....hmm character assassinated by a religious organization, where have i heard that one before?

I think there are plenty people (not all religious) who see a greater threat in anonymous then Scientology.

http://anoninsiders.net/how-to-join-anonymous-1527/

You will never be the same

And yes i think the fight against religion/cult is starting to look like a religion on its own

Sarky

Well at least you've found a way to feel smugly superior to both sides.

Cabaal

weisses wrote: »

And yes i think the fight against religion/cult is starting to look like a religion on its own

You just want to label everything as a religion so its suits you don't you?,

I can tell you I've tried that with sport and it doesn't work. I tell everyone who has no interest in football that their into a new sport.

Much like what you are trying to do, it doesn't make sense and it doesn't make it a sport.,

I think there are plenty people (not all religious) who see a greater threat in anonymous then Scientology.

You understand that anonymous is not any sort of religion right?
Its just a group of people that decide to do different things now and then, kind of like 4chan users do at times.

You don't need to join anonymous to protest against a cult/religion.,

weisses

Cabaal wrote: »

You just want to label everything as a religion so its suits you don't you?,

No i can use the word fanatics if that suits you better

And how would it suit me ? Other then having an opinion on the subject

Cabaal wrote: »

You understand that anonymous is not any sort of religion right?
Its just a group of people that decide to do different things now and then, kind of like 4chan users do at times.,

You do realize you don't need to be in a religion to brainwash people.

I believe you could be in more trouble if you join Anonymous then the Scientology

Cabaal wrote: »

You don't need to join anonymous to protest against a cult/religion.,

No .. A Guy fawkes mask will do .... They are doing it for the lulz

Sulla Felix

Pherekydes wrote: »

So protesting/objecting to religion is itself religion?

In much the same way as not believing in God is actually the same as having a belief in one, or however that piece of tautology usually goes.

kult

Why people do not protest against talking snakes, walking on water, talking bushes and more unbelievable nonsense...

FouxDaFaFa

kult wrote: »

Why people do not protest against talking snakes, walking on water, talking bushes and more unbelievable nonsense...

Anti-Scientology protestors generally aren't protesting the beliefs, they're protesting the organisation itself.

For its policy of disconnection, quasi-prison (Rehabilitation Project Force) and involvement in numerous crimes.

kult

Christianity is a history of crime, death, raping, destruction, brainwashing etc... every religion is the same, divides people and creates wars, no religion no problem, easy...

FouxDaFaFa

kult wrote: »

Christianity is a history of crime, death, raping, destruction, brainwashing etc... every religion is the same, divides people and creates wars, no religion no problem, easy...

Hmmm, yeah.

But forcing people to give up religion wouldn't be any better than the behaviour you're talking about. You're just replacing dogma with dogma.

Protesting because people believe something different to you is like me protesting a mushroom farm because I don't like mushrooms. If the mushroom farm kidnaps people and forces them to pick the mushrooms for no pay, then maybe I'll protest the mushroom farm.

themadhair

I don't protest the Scientology organisation because of their beliefs. I protest them because:
- They have ruined countless lives.
- They have financially bankrupted countless people.
- They have destroyed families.
- They continuously target and harass people who expose their actions.

It doesn't matter whether you are in Dublin or Detroit, wherever the Scientology organisation is you have the same trail of broken families, financial exploitation and ruined lives. The extent to which this organisation ruins lives is much greater than many people realise, and certainly much more than those who think the issue has anything to do with beliefs or religion.

When you meet people who can tell you their personal experiences of the organisation, ranging from coerced abortions to being driven totally suicidal, you start to ignore the 'loopiness' of the beliefs and start to realise that this organisation is a money-making racket that exploits humanity and ruins lives.

Every time I hear or see someone bring up crap like "....i think the fight against religion/cult is starting to look like a religion on its own..." I cringe at their ignorance - and then contemplate at how ignorance of that type has allowed such an abusive manipulative dangerous organisation to continue operating.

We held a conference in Dublin in 2012 where ex-members and families shared their stories:
http://exscientologistsireland.org/wp/introduction/

Compare the testimonies given at the conference with claptrap like this: "....i think the fight against religion/cult is starting to look like a religion on its own..."

Turtwig

Galvasean wrote: »

But Scientology uses all sorts of manipulative tricks to brainwash people!

Catholicism on the other hand...

Actually think Catholicism is more sensible. Though that may be biased by my experience of being a Catholic.

Anahita

FouxDaFaFa wrote: »

Anti-Scientology protestors generally aren't protesting the beliefs, they're protesting the organisation itself.

For its policy of disconnection, quasi-prison (Rehabilitation Project Force) and involvement in numerous crimes.

Exactly.
http://www.lisamcpherson.org

If you're comfortable with their 'leader' Captain Dickhead Miscavige saying that Ireland is awash with Scientologists, as shown in the video...great! Some of us don't want to be associated with it.

This is a thread about Scientology; not about any other religion/cult/whatever.

Brown Bomber

Anahita wrote: »

Protest Scientology in Ireland

Saturday, January 25th 11am-5pm

Dublin Org

See: further details:
www.anonireland.com


January 25th, 2014 from 11am to 5pm – ‘Church’ of Scientology Mission of Dublin Ltd, 64 Middle Abbey Street, Dublin 1

https://whyweprotest.net/community/t...reland.116240/

Show them they are NOT welcome to use Ireland to promote their evil dangerous cult!!

https://whyweprotest.net/community/t...reland.116240/

I wish you all the best but not really sure what you are protesting to be honest. I have nothing but negativity towards Scientology but people have the liberty and the right to make their own life-choices.

Here is a far more protest-worthy issue in my opinion.

Oxfam: Richest 1% own nearly half of world's wealth

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/01/20/davos-2014-oxfam-85-richest-people-half-world/4655337/

Brown Bomber

weisses wrote: »

I think there are plenty people (not all religious) who see a greater threat in anonymous then Scientology.

http://anoninsiders.net/how-to-join-anonymous-1527/

You will never be the same

And yes i think the fight against religion/cult is starting to look like a religion on its own

Weisses,

If ever you can you should read this book. It's by Chris Hedges, a hugely experienced war reporter and Pullitzer prize winner. He was researching for a book he was writing exposing the lunatic Christian fundamentalists and during this he came across the lunatic atheist fundamentalists, like Sam Harris - so he wrote a book on it.

http://www.lifeongoldplates.com/2010/02/review-chris-hedges-when-atheism.html

These atheists embrace a belief system as intolerant, chauvinistic and bigoted as that of religious fundamentalists. They propose a route to collective salvation and the moral advancement of the human species through science and reason" instead of Jesus Christ

Anahita

Pat Kenny interviewing Zabrina Shortt...

Pat Kenny: The Church of Scientology, it’s belief system. I mean, L. Ron Hubbard. I remember when I was in America years and years ago, I was given some of the books and I read them and I thought they were nonsense to be quite honest.

Zabrina Shortt: Ok. That again is absolutely your prerogative to believe that. Ahm, everybody’s open to having their own opinion about everything that they feel out there, whether it’s religion or a political viewpoint. But I do admire the fact that you would read them for yourself and decide for yourself.

http://dialogueireland.wordpress.com/2014/01/24/transcript-of-pat-kennys-interview-with-zabrina-shortt-on-newstalk/

kult

"I don't protest the Scientology organisation because of their beliefs. I protest them because:
- They have ruined countless lives.
- They have financially bankrupted countless people.
- They have destroyed families.
- They continuously target and harass people who expose their actions."

This is what any other religion does to people anyway. If people are dumb enough to believe any kind of a religion then let them. Natural selection is great, society is getting stronger when weak beans...

Galvasean

Jernal wrote: »

Actually think Catholicism is more sensible. Though that may be biased by my experience of being a Catholic.

I think the Bible easily matches the Scientology story in terms of zaniness. Talking horses, people being brought back from the dead... heck, the entire planet floods at one point.

Turtwig

Galvasean wrote: »

I think the Bible easily matches the Scientology story in terms of zaniness. Talking horses, people being brought back from the dead... heck, the entire planet floods at one point.

I said Catholicism. Catholics, even Pope, don't think most of those stories literally happened!:p

kult

Some people actually believe the bible lmao most of them without even reading it or questioning basic facts haha

Turtwig

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

I wonder if in the future we'll have branches of scientology saying they don't believe all their stories and that they're just metaphors and so on. I know this comes across as trying to poke fun, but I spend a fair bit of time thinking about stuff like this :pac:

I strongly believe we will.

themadhair

kult wrote: »

This is what any other religion does to people anyway.

Except that the vast majority of other groups and organisations don't. Seriously, how many groups can you name that ruin people's lives as thoroughly as Scientology does? Genuinely, how many groups even come close to the exploitation and harms that Scientology perpetrates?

Example: When a person was convinced by Scientology they could cure them of their hepatitis and scammed them for thousands of euro, the level of harm such actions have is incalculable. How many groups do you know that do this type of stuff in Ireland?

With all due respect, you really don't know what your talking about if think the level and severity of harms regularly committed by the Scientology organisation are commonplace in other groups (whether religious or not).

kult

Catholic church has been destroying people's life for hundreds of years till today. Any religion causes conflicts between different believers, and it is all about money. NO RELIGION NO PROBLEM. Christians killed millions of people in the name of good, raped people, stole goods, slave people and more. Now people are just mental slaves to the religion , churches and there is no difference which one is stupider or worse, all religion have been doing bigger or smaller damage to people...does it really matter hom much you hurt people? It still hurts them...

themadhair

kult wrote: »

Catholic church has been destroying people's life for hundreds of years till today. Any religion causes conflicts between different believers, and it is all about money. NO RELIGION NO PROBLEM. Christians killed millions of people in the name of good, raped people, stole goods, slave people and more. Now people are just mental slaves to the religion , churches and there is no difference which one is stupider or worse, all religion have been doing bigger or smaller damage to people...does it really matter hom much you hurt people? It still hurts them...

You've just proved my point. You recognise all of the abuses you have listed as being wrong and that such have no place in society. So, I would imagine, you should be capable of understanding why any group committing such abuses should be publically exposed and their abuses robustly challenged.

So why are you so determined to ignore the Scientology organisation and the litany of abuses they CONTINUE to commit...????

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Plenty of religions do, they're just more accepted in society.

Please name specific groups currently committing harms in Ireland that rival those of Scientology. I do not believe that other groups commit financial exploitation on the same level of Scientology, I do not believe they commit the same level of horrors as Scientology's 'Rehabilitation Project Force', and I do not believe they have anywhere near the level of mental and psychological ruination bestowed on people.

If you feel different then listing specific examples of where groups are doing such in Ireland would be very helpful, otherwise it really does seem as if you are failing to grasp quite how severe the harm the Scientology organisation is reeking of their members and their families.

And are the various tales told among Catholics about holy places which can miraculously cure you really any different?

Yes. In the vast majority of groups (including Catholicism) there is little or no attempt to talk people out of seeking genuine treatment. In the vast majority of groups are not made to believe that their ills are caused by their inability/refusal to correctly and fully apply the group's dogma. The vast majority of groups do not actively and concertedly attempt to peddle all sorts of conspiracy theories against mainstream medicine (with Scientology's visceral conspiracies against psychiatric medicine being the most blatant example).

Comparing stories of healings at Lourdes with the intense pressure, emotional blackmail, psychological coercion and constant 'regging' (Scientology term for bullying people out of money) that regularly occurs in Scientology is incredibly inaccurate. I really do encourage you to do more research on this, because it simply appears as if you are unaware of just how extreme Scientology has taken this. People in Scientology actually get convinced that every illness they suffer is due to them not applying Scientology, and psychological impact of accepting such a harmful self-confirmation-bias is difficult to overstate.

The main difference with scientology is they take more money off people.

Actually no, the harms involved cover much more (and in greater severity) than just this.

I'd argue the Catholic church has done significantly more harm in this country than scientology has. I think you're deluding yourself, for whatever reasons, if you think otherwise.

I am not disagreeing that, historically, the total harms committed by Catholicism is great than the Scientology organisation which has only existed for a number of decades. But since you seem to recognise those past harms, and would presumably seek to challenge the commission of such if attempted today, then why are you so forgiving of harms that Scientology continues to commit in the present day? Are you essentially arguing that because group X did something terrible in the past that group Y, which is committing serious harms in the present day, should be given a completely free pass??? Because, if so, that makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever.

I'll pose the same question to you as I did to the other poster - can you cite examples of harms currently being committed by other groups that rival the harms of the Scientology organisation? If the organisation reformed then I'd have no grounds to protest it, but until that happens I've seen no convincing argument from yourself as to why it is sensible to ignore the continuing ruination this organisation brings to both individuals and families. I also fail to see how the crap history of one organisation somehow absolves the current harms and exploitation of another separate organisation - which seems to be the central premise upon which you challenge rests.

kult

So why people do not protest against christianity, catholic churches etc, they did more damage than any religion. I see people just pick what they want to protest against , whats the easiest target, catholic church is too big and strong...

Turtwig

kult wrote: »

Some people actually believe the bible lmao most of them without even reading it or questioning basic facts haha

kult wrote: »

Christianity is a history of crime, death, raping, destruction, brainwashing etc... every religion is the same, divides people and creates wars, no religion no problem, easy...

kult wrote: »

Why people do not protest against talking snakes, walking on water, talking bushes and more unbelievable nonsense...

kult wrote: »

So why people do not protest against christianity, catholic churches etc, they did more damage than any religion. I see people just pick what they want to protest against , whats the easiest target, catholic church is too big and strong...

Hi Kult,

Moderator here. We're calling to inform you that this type of drive by posting isn't very well tolerated here. This isn't your own personal soapbox. Please contribute actively to the discussion.

Thanking you,
The mod team.

Czarcasm

weisses wrote: »

I believe you could be in more trouble if you join Anonymous then the Scientology.

I believe you're wrong. The whole point of Anonymous is that a person is, well, anonymous. There is no cohesive ideology, no membership, no rules, completely unlike Scientology in which members are expected to become part of a cohesive ideology and live their lives according to a set of rules which include social exclusion and significant financial contributions from personal income amongst other things. You can be anonymous without doing anything illegal, you can't be a Scientologist without submission to their ideology.

kult wrote: »

Catholic church has been destroying people's life for hundreds of years till today. Any religion causes conflicts between different believers, and it is all about money. NO RELIGION NO PROBLEM. Christians killed millions of people in the name of good, raped people, stole goods, slave people and more. Now people are just mental slaves to the religion , churches and there is no difference which one is stupider or worse, all religion have been doing bigger or smaller damage to people...does it really matter hom much you hurt people? It still hurts them...

If you were prepared to think about it rationally and logically, you'll find that people kill far more people than religion ever did. No religion? Well, people will just find another excuse to kill people and wreak misery, havoc and devastation on other people. Problem - Religion provides people with a convenient excuse to be cnuts! Take away that excuse, and they'll just invent another justification for their abhorrent behaviour.

kult wrote: »

So why people do not protest against christianity, catholic churches etc, they did more damage than any religion. I see people just pick what they want to protest against , whats the easiest target, catholic church is too big and strong...

Nothing stopping you going out on the street right now and protesting against, well, whatever you choose really, and other people may or may not join you. There are plenty of people who share your objection to Christianity, organised religion, whatever. It starts with you, and if you lead by example, other people will want to follow your example.

Kiwi in IE

themadhair wrote: »

Example: When a person was convinced by Scientology they could cure them of their hepatitis and scammed them for thousands of euro, the level of harm such actions have is incalculable. How many groups do you know that do this type of stuff in Ireland?

Lourdes etc?

Galvasean

Jernal wrote: »

I said Catholicism. Catholics, even Pope, don't think most of those stories literally happened!:p

Okay so, we'll just settle on the weekly ritual of literally turning wafers into the flesh of a guy who has been dead for 200 years and eating it.

Czarcasm

Galvasean wrote: »

Okay so, we'll just settle on the weekly ritual of literally turning wafers into the flesh of a guy who has been dead for 200 years and eating it.

2,000 years ago is a much better vintage, a bit more dry, but soft on the palate


Sorry Galvasean, couldn't resist

kult

Jernal - I am sorry but I wrote the truth, not to offend anyone at all, just a historical truth, I know it hurts, but what can I do?

weisses

Czarcasm wrote: »

I believe you're wrong. The whole point of Anonymous is that a person is, well, anonymous. There is no cohesive ideology, no membership, no rules, completely unlike Scientology in which members are expected to become part of a cohesive ideology and live their lives according to a set of rules which include social exclusion and significant financial contributions from personal income amongst other things. You can be anonymous without doing anything illegal, you can't be a Scientologist without submission to their ideology.

I did not necessarily meant that Anonymous would give you trouble

Brian Shanahan

weisses wrote: »

Just leave em

Don't know what I find more annoying

Scientology or the ones protesting against it

So you think highlighting the evils of an organisation and trying to get said organisation out of the country as bad as the evils committed by the organisation (and trust me scientology comes within a hairsbreadth of the rcc for evils committed). A parallel would be to brand the Dunnes workers who went on strike to get Dunnes to boycot the aparthied SA government as bad as said government, or those who stand in front of Israeli govenment bulldozers in Palestine to stop said bulldozers from destroying the homes and property of the Palestinian people as bad as the Israeli government. I am genuinely confused.

weisses

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

So you think highlighting the evils of an organisation and trying to get said organisation out of the country as bad as the evils committed by the organisation (and trust me scientology comes within a hairsbreadth of the rcc for evils committed). A parallel would be to brand the Dunnes workers who went on strike to get Dunnes to boycot the aparthied SA government as bad as said government, or those who stand in front of Israeli govenment bulldozers in Palestine to stop said bulldozers from destroying the homes and property of the Palestinian people as bad as the Israeli government. I am genuinely confused.

Problem with that comparison is that the Dunnes workers are not members of a potentially dangerous group, same goes kinda for the palestinians,

Ddos attacks done by people affiliated to Anonymous caused millions off dollars worth of damage and people went to jail for it

I think your possible flawed comparison is the main reason for your confusion

themadhair

@ Doctor Jimbob

It seems clear that you are going out of your way to misrepresent what I am trying to say, so I'll state my position here clearly and concisely to prevent you from continuing to misrepresent it.

- I am saying that Scientology is a dangerous and deeply harmful organisation, and I base that opinion on a) the hundreds of ex-members of who described being abused in detail, b) the thousands of pages of leaked internal Scientology documentation that lays out the policiess behind these abuse, c) the thousands of pages and hundreds of hours of audio/video from investigative journalists and d) my own researchers into the organistion and contact I have had with current members.

- I have no love for the Catholic Church and strongly believe the organisation should be dismantled for its history, its corruption and the fact that it has lost the moral authority to possess any role of power whatsoever within our country.

- I am saying that people raising the Catholic Church as some sort of reason for why the Scientology organisation should not be protested are either a) totally ignorant of the severity of harm the Scientology organisation causes, or b) forwarding an anti-religion agenda that blinds them from seeing the difference between extremely harmful organisations and other benign (or at least non-harmful) organisations (the vast majority of groups tend not to be harmful, it is only relatively few that develop harmful practices).

- I am saying that, in terms of severity, in present day Ireland when the Scientology organisation ruins a person's life they do so far in excess of almost any other groups, and that in the present day the Catholic Church (despite its horrific, detestable, grotesque history) does not harm an individual as thoroughly as the Scientology organisation does.

I think these should be sufficient clear for you.

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Lourdes etc?

Compare Lourdes with what the Scientology organisation does. Do representatives for Lourdes outnumber and individual, and do they psychologically pound and pound and pound on the person until they folk over thousands of euro? Do such representatives scour through a person's confessional files looking for material that can be used as a psychological lever against a person to try forcing them into handing over the cash? Do those representatives engage in campaigns of ringing and visiting a person to an obsessive level until that person breaks?

The selling or promotion (or even insinuation) of false cures to people who may be ill or desperate is sickening and reprehensible. But you need to realise that while Lourdes is bad, what the Scientology organisation does is much worse than you seem to be aware.

weisses wrote: »

Ddos attacks done by people affiliated to Anonymous caused millions off dollars worth of damage and people went to jail for it

There two few serious misconceptions in this that are worth clearing up.

First, think of 'Anonymous' as a methodology rather than an actual group. Any group of people who use the internet combined with anonymity could be said to be 'Anonymous'. The causes that have utilised this methodology are diverse, ranging from protesting Scientology (which we do at anonireland.org), open source projects, outright trolling, leaking public-interest information, to retaliatory attacks. There is no connection between the different causes other than the methodology.

Second, the claim that DDOS attacks caused 'millions of dollars worth of damage' is laughable. A computer server that hosts a website can only accommodate a finite number of visitors at any one time, and a DDOS uses up the server resources by making bogus requests for website information - the effect of which is to make the website inaccessible to genuine users. The website becomes live again the moment the DDOS stops, but that hasn't stopped many people claiming outrageous damage figures to scare judiciaries. A good analogy would be if enough people protested a shop and jammed the doors. As soon as the protest stopped the doors would be accessible again, with no actual damage causes. A DDOS is, in effect, the online equivalent of en-masse protest that temporary denies access.

Brian Shanahan

weisses wrote: »

Problem with that comparison is that the Dunnes workers are not members of a potentially dangerous group, same goes kinda for the palestinians,

Ddos attacks done by people affiliated to Anonymous caused millions off dollars worth of damage and people went to jail for it

I think your possible flawed comparison is the main reason for your confusion

So protesting scientology is wrong because somebody else did something illegal totally unconnected to protesting scientology.

And may I also remind you that just because something is illegal it doesn't mean that it is either wrong or immoral. By your specious reasoning, the Weiße Rose movement was wrong and immoral, simply because, under German law at the time it was illegal.

weisses

themadhair wrote: »

There two few serious misconceptions in this that are worth clearing up.

First, think of 'Anonymous' as a methodology rather than an actual group. Any group of people who use the internet combined with anonymity could be said to be 'Anonymous'. The causes that have utilised this methodology are diverse, ranging from protesting Scientology (which we do at anonireland.org), open source projects, outright trolling, leaking public-interest information, to retaliatory attacks. There is no connection between the different causes other than the methodology.

To me its another way of shifting responsibility

themadhair wrote: »

Second, the claim that DDOS attacks caused 'millions of dollars worth of damage' is laughable. A computer server that hosts a website can only accommodate a finite number of visitors at any one time, and a DDOS uses up the server resources by making bogus requests for website information - the effect of which is to make the website inaccessible to genuine users. The website becomes live again the moment the DDOS stops, but that hasn't stopped many people claiming outrageous damage figures to scare judiciaries. A good analogy would be if enough people protested a shop and jammed the doors. As soon as the protest stopped the doors would be accessible again, with no actual damage causes. A DDOS is, in effect, the online equivalent of en-masse protest that temporary denies access.

so Paypal lied in court ?...

http://www.itpro.co.uk/644308/anonymous-ddos-attacks-cost-paypal-35m-court-hears

And all these company's are exaggerating as well ?

http://www.darkreading.com/attacks-breaches/what-a-ddos-can-cost/240000446

weisses

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

So protesting scientology is wrong because somebody else did something illegal totally unconnected to protesting scientology. And may I also remind you that just because something is illegal it doesn't mean that it is either wrong or immoral. By your specious reasoning, the Weiße Rose movement was wrong and immoral, simply because, under German law at the time it was illegal.

No the Scientology movement are retards imo and Anonymous is linked with criminal offences

One taking the high road over the other is laughable

And stop making ridiculous comparisons