6000 landlords a year existing the rental market

overkill602 · 02-06-2020 11:49am

when you go above 35K the extra 20% does make a big difference my accountant has many LLs on his books they are keeping below the 35K also the sector has the highest compliance according to rev
This is where the 55% come in it just not worth it even with allowable expenses and when your not allowed for time & admin

the_syco · 02-06-2020 12:04pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

I'd love to know what the story is with the circa 30% of Airbnb lets on the Irish market, being available but vacant in July/Aug 2019...........
Something just doesn't make sense.

It sounds like they're not only using AirBnB?

Edgware wrote: »

58 one beds advertised for Dublin 6 last Friday on Daft. The rental market is in trouble and if a landlord wants a property rented he better start reducing rent.

Daft has been weird lately. Sometimes I click on a property, only to be told it no longer exists.

Lux23 · 02-06-2020 12:10pm

the_syco wrote: »

It sounds like they're not only using AirBnB?

Daft has been weird lately. Sometimes I click on a property, only to be told it no longer exists.

I have noticed that too, but I think its because they have upped or dropped the price.

Ray Palmer · 02-06-2020 12:38pm

overkill602 wrote: »

when you go above 35K the extra 20% does make a big difference my accountant has many LLs on his books they are keeping below the 35K also the sector has the highest compliance according to rev
This is where the 55% come in it just not worth it even with allowable expenses and when your not allowed for time & admin

That doesn't make any sense. Any extra money is more money even if you are taxed more above a limit. You don't suddenly get taxed more on your existing income when it increases.
I don't think you understand tax or accounting

Bass Reeves · 02-06-2020 3:18pm

Ray Palmer wrote: »

That doesn't make any sense. Any extra money is more money even if you are taxed more above a limit. You don't suddenly get taxed more on your existing income when it increases.
I don't think you understand tax or accounting

It might seem not to. However if you have multiple units it may well pay to leave a unit empty for 6-12 months. If you are in an RPZ and you take a 20% drop in rent it will take 5+years to recover to original yield not to mind projected yield. As well if LL's with multiple units leave units empty or hold for there prices they prevent churn. This benefits the yield in other units.

While single unit owners may be in a rush to relet the same pressure will not be.on multiple unit owners. As well this may be a time to revamp properties and increase there rental value. If we enter a slowdown building prices(although I cannot see building costs decline by much) it would be an opportunity to carry out upgrades

the_syco · 02-06-2020 4:04pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

As well this may be a time to revamp properties and increase there rental value. If we enter a slowdown building prices(although I cannot see building costs decline by much) it would be an opportunity to carry out upgrades

Unless the LL adds another room, I doubt a LL would qualify for more rent if they're in an RPZ. Also, the less rentals that there are, the less the LL will need to improve their accommodation.

Ray Palmer · 02-06-2020 4:40pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

It might seem not to. However if you have multiple units it may well pay to leave a unit empty for 6-12 months. If you are in an RPZ and you take a 20% drop in rent it will take 5+years to recover to original yield not to mind projected yield. As well if LL's with multiple units leave units empty or hold for there prices they prevent churn. This benefits the yield in other units.

While single unit owners may be in a rush to relet the same pressure will not be.on multiple unit owners. As well this may be a time to revamp properties and increase there rental value. If we enter a slowdown building prices(although I cannot see building costs decline by much) it would be an opportunity to carry out upgrades

Show your maths to explain it because I think you are overestimating an extreme scenario. I also believe it is 2 years of not being let before you can rent it out again without RPZ impact.

So rent is €1000 but could get €1200.

So you don't want €24k income because you can get an extra €200 a month later. So to recover that money will take 10 years. Even if a year it is 5 years to recover the amount. They won't be up any amount but if the keep renting they can up the rent 4% each year. Which means more money in the end..

You are talking to a person with multiple units who did the maths on their property and it makes no sense. You would have to be renting a place below 50% of the market rate. Easier just to upgrade the property and put it back on the market. It is easily done and costs a lot less than 24k

Bass Reeves · 02-06-2020 4:40pm

the_syco wrote: »

Unless the LL adds another room, I doubt a LL would qualify for more rent if they're in an RPZ. Also, the less rentals that there are, the less the LL will need to improve their accommodation.

LL's with multiple units will have units that are 20+ years old often in a good area but in poor condition. Maybe teak windows, poor insulation, low BER, poor decor inside only attractive to lower income clients. A 30-40k upgrade which is tax deductible against all rental income would increase rent by 20-50% depending on original condition

Ray Palmer · 02-06-2020 5:26pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

LL's with multiple units will have units that are 20+ years old often in a good area but in poor condition. Maybe teak windows, poor insulation, low BER, poor decor inside only attractive to lower income clients. A 30-40k upgrade which is tax deductible against all rental income would increase rent by 20-50% depending on original condition

Upgrades are not tax deductible.

beauf · 02-06-2020 5:44pm

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Show your maths to explain it because I think you are overestimating an extreme scenario. I also believe it is 2 years of not being let before you can rent it out again without RPZ impact.

So rent is €1000 but could get €1200.

So you don't want €24k income because you can get an extra €200 a month later. So to recover that money will take 10 years. Even if a year it is 5 years to recover the amount. They won't be up any amount but if the keep renting they can up the rent 4% each year. Which means more money in the end..

You are talking to a person with multiple units who did the maths on their property and it makes no sense. You would have to be renting a place below 50% of the market rate. Easier just to upgrade the property and put it back on the market. It is easily done and costs a lot less than 24k

More like rent is 900 could get 1700.
The wear and tear on a rental is like 3 or 4 times a normal property.
So sitting empty isn't isn't comparable to the wear renting.
That's if you don't have problems. Which could be thousands even tens of thousands if very unlucky and take 2 yrs of no rent.
Then you have current situation where you get no rent for the lockdown etc. it will be "interesting" how that resolves itself.

But you are right these are fringe situations and while less hassle ultimately making considerably less money.
But then people who want to make max money have gone AirBnB or 20 to a room all sublet.
So everyone makes a compromise at some point.

People leaving the market feel its too much hassle or risk for the gains. (there are other reasons to leave too) Anyone staying in, or getting in feels its worth it.

the_syco · 02-06-2020 9:05pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

LL's with multiple units will have units that are 20+ years old often in a good area but in poor condition. Maybe teak windows, poor insulation, low BER, poor decor inside only attractive to lower income clients. A 30-40k upgrade which is tax deductible against all rental income would increase rent by 20-50% depending on original condition

AFAIK, upgrading appearance doesn't allow you to up the rent in an RPZ.

Pkiernan · 02-06-2020 9:10pm

Edgware wrote: »

58 one beds advertised for Dublin 6 last Friday on Daft. The rental market is in trouble and if a landlord wants a property rented he better start reducing rent.

497000 households in Ireland are rentals.

Bass Reeves · 02-06-2020 10:47pm

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Upgrades are not tax deductible.

Yes it is its classes as maintenance. First day costs before renting are not allowable. But upgrades are often classed as maintenance and are tax deductible. They are also allowable against rental income of other properties.

Bass Reeves · 02-06-2020 10:52pm

the_syco wrote: »

AFAIK, upgrading appearance doesn't allow you to up the rent in an RPZ.

I am fairly sure you are incorrect. In RPZ's lads are getting away with rising tents anyway. As well you have to factor in these will be houses that are after being vacated and probably empty for the bones of 12 months

Ray Palmer · 03-06-2020 9:57am

beauf wrote: »

More like rent is 900 could get 1700.
The wear and tear on a rental is like 3 or 4 times a normal property.
So sitting empty isn't isn't comparable to the wear renting.
That's if you don't have problems. Which could be thousands even tens of thousands if very unlucky and take 2 yrs of no rent.
Then you have current situation where you get no rent for the lockdown etc. it will be "interesting" how that resolves itself.

But you are right these are fringe situations and while less hassle ultimately making considerably less money.
But then people who want to make max money have gone AirBnB or 20 to a room all sublet.
So everyone makes a compromise at some point.

People leaving the market feel its too much hassle or risk for the gains. (there are other reasons to leave too) Anyone staying in, or getting in feels its worth it.

You were the one saying 20% so I calculated based on that. I pointed out it would have to be above 50% to make some sense. How somebody gets in that situation would be extraordinary.

You are talking like I have never been involved in rentals but have been for over 20 years.

You cannot deduct upgrades to your property. There is an exception where there are Grant's involved but all else is maintenance. You can look up the legislation.

You could show your maths and explain how somebody gets in the situation in the first place that would be great.

The_Conductor · 03-06-2020 10:01am

Bass Reeves wrote: »

LL's with multiple units will have units that are 20+ years old often in a good area but in poor condition. Maybe teak windows, poor insulation, low BER, poor decor inside only attractive to lower income clients. A 30-40k upgrade which is tax deductible against all rental income would increase rent by 20-50% depending on original condition

Upgrades are *not* tax deductible.
Only replacements on a like for like basis are.
Aka- you can't take our delapidated teak windows and put in decent triple glazed aluminium replacements- and try to claim it as an expense- it is not allowable. Replacing like with like- is.

Additional insulation, decor etc- none of them are allowable expenses.

In addition to everything- they also don't break the RPZ rent control on the unit. So- you could spend 100k doing up a property really nicely- but it legally can only be let for its last rental rate (+4% p.a. if a rent review is due)

You may disagree- but trust me- enough people have tried to argue this with the Revenue Commissioners down the years- and been told where to go.

This is why there are so many dilapidated rental units out there- there is no financial incentive to modernise or do them up.

Vestiapx · 03-06-2020 10:02am

Graham wrote: »

be as logical as asking your boss for a pay-cut to save on tax.

More like asking for Mondays off because after tax and commuting you'd be happier just not working that day.

The_Conductor · 03-06-2020 10:18am

Vestiapx wrote: »

More like asking for Mondays off because after tax and commuting you'd be happier just not working that day.

I know I'd be perfectly happy to take a paycut to work a 4 day week- particularly if I was on the cusp of the tax bands- and the net cost of only working a 4 day week was less than a 20% cut in net pay...........

You'd have to run the calculations to see whether it made sense.

Cuddlesworth · 03-06-2020 10:29am

beauf wrote: »

More like rent is 900 could get 1700.
The wear and tear on a rental is like 3 or 4 times a normal property.
So sitting empty isn't isn't comparable to the wear renting.

Not even sure that works, it would take till year 5 to see a profit, year 6 for substantial profit. Income tax could skew that much higher if it was retirement income for example. That's 5 years of assuming rents don't start decreasing(which would affect the higher price over the lower price).

Risk due to tenants not paying can happen at any point along the rent scale.
Also landlords who were caught significantly under market rates when the rent controls came in, usually income was not at the top of their mind.

Bass Reeves · 03-06-2020 10:56am

The_Conductor wrote: »

Upgrades are *not* tax deductible.
Only replacements on a like for like basis are.
Aka- you can't take our delapidated teak windows and put in decent triple glazed aluminium replacements- and try to claim it as an expense- it is not allowable. Replacing like with like- is.

Additional insulation, decor etc- none of them are allowable expenses.

In addition to everything- they also don't break the RPZ rent control on the unit. So- you could spend 100k doing up a property really nicely- but it legally can only be let for its last rental rate (+4% p.a. if a rent review is due)

You may disagree- but trust me- enough people have tried to argue this with the Revenue Commissioners down the years- and been told where to go.

This is why there are so many dilapidated rental units out there- there is no financial incentive to modernise or do them up.

You can no longer get teak windows. So you cannot replace like for like. It's impossible to replace like for like as technology changes. Upgrades can be listed as maintenance. The reason most Landlords do not reinvest in properties is often the return is greater to buy another property.

There are work arounds. At present until December '21 provided premises is vacant for 12 months expenses in revamping it are allowable. As well if you bring the BER up by 7 units below D, 5 units at D and 3 units at C, you are allowed to rise rent in an RPZ. Finally if rental is vacant for longer than 24 months RPZ rates can be reset.

Bass Reeves · 03-06-2020 11:08am

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Not even sure that works, it would take till year 5 to see a profit, year 6 for substantial profit. Income tax could skew that much higher if it was retirement income for example. That's 5 years of assuming rents don't start decreasing(which would affect the higher price over the lower price).

Risk due to tenants not paying can happen at any point along the rent scale.
Also landlords who were caught significantly under market rates when the rent controls came in, usually income was not at the top of their mind.

You are failing to allow for other factors. It easier to keep nice properties rented. Properties that are in good condition take less maintenance time to LL. If costs are classed as maintenance/ Ber then they are tax deductible so tax issue is negated. It may also allow make the house more marketable 8-10 years down the line if you intended to cash in the property or if you intended to use it for family use

The_Conductor · 03-06-2020 11:14am

Bass Reeves wrote: »

You can no longer get teak windows. So you cannot replace like for like. It's impossible to replace like for like as technology changes. Upgrades can be listed as maintenance. The reason most Landlords do not reinvest in properties is often the return is greater to buy another property.

There are work arounds. At present until December '21 provided premises is vacant for 12 months expenses in revamping it are allowable. As well if you bring the BER up by 7 units below D, 5 units at D and 3 units at C, you are allowed to rise rent in an RPZ. Finally if rental is vacant for longer than 24 months RPZ rates can be reset.

You're adding a load of caveats (most of which people here are familiar with).

In the event of a like-for-like product not being available- the next closest approximation is expected to be used. You can't use the fact of non-availability of teak windows to rebuild an alcove (though some people have tried).

Upgrades are specifically not allowed as maintenance- and if you're audited, you're going to get a short sharp shock (I've a colleague who thought it would be opportune to upgrade a bathroom which was knackered after 10 years letting to Galway City Council- but got clobbered with Revenue penalties for her trouble, when she was audited). You might get lucky, and not be audited- if you are audited, you will not get away with it.

There always were vacant premises and substantial change work arounds- but talk is of closing off those loopholes (or at very least, penalising landlords whose properties are vacant for whatever reason, for protracted periods of time- aka they will have to make every reasonable effort to retenant them, or they'll end up with penalties (such as enhanced property tax) on them.

The substantial change clause is an interesting one- and there are at least 4 different cases against the definition ongoing (one of which was carried over from last year).

Anyhow- the short and simple fact of the matter is- the regulatory and tax regime for landlords is onerous and not commensurate to the amount of work a good landlord must invest in his/her property(ies) should they wish to maintain the properties and the tenancies therein. The pendulum has swung significantly in favour of tenants and away from landlords. Until such time as the regulatory regime is seen as more equitable towards both tenants and landlords (and there does have to be give and take on both sides)- landlords will continue to exit the sector.

Even with the rollout of REITs and other large landlords in the state- and the enumeration of tenancies with the housing associations etc- the absolute number of tenancies is falling- in a consistent manner. Its complete manure that the RTB need to conduct a study of why this is happening- its plain as day.

The_Conductor · 03-06-2020 11:17am

Bass Reeves wrote: »

You are failing to allow for other factors. It easier to keep nice properties rented. Properties that are in good condition take less maintenance time to LL. If costs are classed as maintenance/ Ber then they are tax deductible so tax issue is negated. It may also allow make the house more marketable 8-10 years down the line if you intended to cash in the property or if you intended to use it for family use

The fact of the matter is- when there is a shortage of rental property- while it is nice to imagine that a landlord will maintain it to a high standard- they don't have to- because people will fight over it as-is.

Lots of landlords have played a game claiming their upgrades were maintenance- many of them have gotten away with it- some, have not. You shouldn't play chicken with the Revenue Commissioners- its not going to end well.........

Cuddlesworth · 03-06-2020 11:37am

Bass Reeves wrote: »

You are failing to allow for other factors. It easier to keep nice properties rented. Properties that are in good condition take less maintenance time to LL. If costs are classed as maintenance/ Ber then they are tax deductible so tax issue is negated. It may also allow make the house more marketable 8-10 years down the line if you intended to cash in the property or if you intended to use it for family use

Not sure where you have been, the last 8 years its easy to keep any property rented. Rent supplement while last choice, has kept a pretty high bottom on the market across the country and provided a large number of potential tenants.

I also don't know where you are going with properties in good condition. If you are talking about the very high end compared to the very low end(rent supplement), the repairs and maintenance cost a lot more in the high end and are about the same frequency. Also accountancy is not my strong point, but you have to be very careful about deductions. A repaired white-good/couch is a deduction, a new white-good/furniture is not. They are 8 year depreciating assets. Overall you are just spending more money to put it against tax, its not additional income.

Lastly, the main difference between high end and low end is location. A shoebox in Donnybrook is high end compared to a 3 bed house in Darndale. The fit and finish make very little difference to the rents received in the Irish market. Which is why the majority of rentals have the cheapest furniture money can buy and usually have zero work done outside of the bare minimum.

beauf · 03-06-2020 12:10pm

Ray Palmer wrote: »

...

You could show your maths and explain how somebody gets in the situation in the first place that would be great.

Absent LL or inherit it.

brisan · 11-06-2020 7:53pm

When the 3 months freeze on rent payments expire how many landlords are expecting to receive the full amount and how do they intend to collect it
What happens if the tenant just leaves to rent somewhere else or in the case of a foreign national just goes home esp if they lose their job

The_Conductor · 11-06-2020 8:03pm

brisan wrote: »

When the 3 months freeze on rent payments expire how many landlords are expecting to receive the full amount and how do they intend to collect it
What happens if the tenant just leaves to rent somewhere else or in the case of a foreign national just goes home esp if they lose their job

The landlord lodges an RTB case if the tenant doesn't pay the rent (and hasn't made alternate arrangements in agreement with the landlord. If the tenant ups sticks and moves- the landlord lodges an RTB case. If the tenant goes back to Bulgaria with no intention of returning here- the landlord lodges an RTB case.

Failure of the tenant to answer an RTB case normally results in summary judgement in favour of the landlord. Depending on how vested the landlord is in chasing the tenant- they can pursue a case up to and including a court order to purloin the earnings or social welfare of an Irish tenant- or a legally enforceable court order valid anywhere in the EU.

In short- if its a small sum of money- it probably isn't worth the landlord's effort to chase it, unless they are sufficiently vested in pursuing it. If its a larger sum- then almost certainly they will pursue it.

REITs and institutional landlords have a policy of chasing absolutely everything (and billing the tenant for all costs incurred in chasing them).

All in all- it is in a tenant's best interests to communicate as fully as possible with their landlord, and if they are experiencing difficulties (and who isn't) they should try to come to some sort of an arrangement- because regardless of circumstances, if a tenant owes rent, they owe rent- and if they are unable to pay their rent, they have no reasonable expectation to either stay in the property, or to vacate the property without clearing their debts.

Communication is key- alongside reasonable and realistic expectations.

brisan · 11-06-2020 8:59pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

The landlord lodges an RTB case if the tenant doesn't pay the rent (and hasn't made alternate arrangements in agreement with the landlord. If the tenant ups sticks and moves- the landlord lodges an RTB case. If the tenant goes back to Bulgaria with no intention of returning here- the landlord lodges an RTB case.

Failure of the tenant to answer an RTB case normally results in summary judgement in favour of the landlord. Depending on how vested the landlord is in chasing the tenant- they can pursue a case up to and including a court order to purloin the earnings or social welfare of an Irish tenant- or a legally enforceable court order valid anywhere in the EU.

In short- if its a small sum of money- it probably isn't worth the landlord's effort to chase it, unless they are sufficiently vested in pursuing it. If its a larger sum- then almost certainly they will pursue it.

REITs and institutional landlords have a policy of chasing absolutely everything (and billing the tenant for all costs incurred in chasing them).

All in all- it is in a tenant's best interests to communicate as fully as possible with their landlord, and if they are experiencing difficulties (and who isn't) they should try to come to some sort of an arrangement- because regardless of circumstances, if a tenant owes rent, they owe rent- and if they are unable to pay their rent, they have no reasonable expectation to either stay in the property, or to vacate the property without clearing their debts.

Communication is key- alongside reasonable and realistic expectations.

I am not in that situation at either end ,I was just wondering if a tenant owes you 6000 euro for 3 months rent as they have been on Covid payments and are now back in work ,do you
A look for all the money straight away
B look for a weekly /monthly payment on top of the month rent
I cant see anyone involved in this situation landlord or tenant coming out of it well

The_Conductor · 11-06-2020 9:23pm

I'd go for B- the tenant and landlord agree a timeframe for the tenant to clear their arrears.
Its the same as arrears for any service- you agree a framework to clear your debt.
Its not fair or reasonable to expect it to be cleared in a lumpsum upfront- very few folk have access to a couple of grand- most people are close to living from one paycheque to the next...........

Bass Reeves · 11-06-2020 9:41pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

I'd go for B- the tenant and landlord agree a timeframe for the tenant to clear their arrears.
Its the same as arrears for any service- you agree a framework to clear your debt.
Its not fair or reasonable to expect it to be cleared in a lumpsum upfront- very few folk have access to a couple of grand- most people are close to living from one paycheque to the next...........

Still it's rubbish that some tenant's have stopped all payments. I think a landlord would be much more likely to be accommodating than where a tenant stopped all payments as has happened in some cases

beauf · 11-06-2020 10:31pm

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

.... The fit and finish make very little difference to the rents received in the Irish market. Which is why the majority of rentals have the cheapest furniture money can buy and usually have zero work done outside of the bare minimum.

I think there are good reasons to go above the minimum. But that's a difference discussion.

One reason people put basic furniture in is because it gets destroyed by some renter's.

brisan · 22-07-2020 7:58am

The_Conductor wrote: »

I'd love to know what the story is with the circa 30% of Airbnb lets on the Irish market, being available but vacant in July/Aug 2019...........
Something just doesn't make sense.

A lot could be rented off the books

22-07-2020 8:18am

brisan wrote: »

A lot could be rented off the books

Many advertise on booking.com, ownersdirect and Facebook as well as Airbnb.

The_Conductor · 22-07-2020 8:57am

Dav010 wrote: »

Many advertise on booking.com, ownersdirect and Facebook as well as Airbnb.

I've had a look at all of these- for Galway city for 14 random 2 day period breaks both midweek and weekends (incl. one bank holiday weekend) for Galway City- between now and the end of the year- and it still doesn't add up.

Its a similar story across the board on different platforms- availability across the board, but vacancies- even for bank holiday weekends.

Also some weird shenanigans on airbnb and booking.com where local B&Bs and even the likes of Jurys- have expanded their advertised offerings so they also feature as 1,2 or 3 bed apartments when you search- so the apparent number of 1-2-3 bed apartments on the platforms are artificially boosted (to quite ridiculous levels) by large hotels (3 in Galway city for example) which artificially suggest there are 400 additional self-occupancy units (on airbnb for example) that quite simply do not exist.

I hadn't copped that hotels were pulling stunts like this- to feature in availability rankings for apartments- but it completely and utterly undermines anyone who is relying on stats from airbnb to suggest that there are 'X' number of units that will miraculously appear on the long term rental market as a result of the effective banning of airbnb..............

JimmyVik · 22-07-2020 11:28am

Dav010 wrote: »

Many advertise on booking.com, ownersdirect and Facebook as well as Airbnb.

oh there are lots and lots of other places to get holiday lets.
I wont mention any here but you probably know some of them.
I use them when looking for holiday lets abroad now in cities which have banned airbnb. And I saw a lot of irish ex airbnbs come up on them before covid killed tourism.

JimmyVik · 22-07-2020 11:33am

The_Conductor wrote: »

I hadn't copped that hotels were pulling stunts like this- to feature in availability rankings for apartments- but it completely and utterly undermines anyone who is relying on stats from airbnb to suggest that there are 'X' number of units that will miraculously appear on the long term rental market as a result of the effective banning of airbnb..............

I find that really annoying. Its been going on for a few years now.
Last year I was trying to get an airbnb in London and it was nothing but hotels. I actually contacted airbnb and asked would they put a filter so that you could filter out hotels.

The opposite has happened to me too. I booked a hotel in London. Arrived at reception and was given a map and a key and told to walk around the block 500M away. It wasnt in the hotel at all but an apartment in a residential apartment block 5 minutes walk away.

22-07-2020 1:13pm

Dear God I thought if Carlsberg did Airbnb, this would be it, turns out it’s not as good as I thought.

https://www.irishpost.com/news/an-entire-irish-pub-is-available-for-rent-on-airbnb-189562

redarmyblues · 22-07-2020 8:35pm

Edgware wrote: »

An empty apartment makes no money

With the rules in place at the moment a let apartment may make no rent either.

snowcat · 22-07-2020 8:45pm

redarmyblues wrote: »

With the rules in place at the moment a let apartment may make no rent either.

You would want to be stone cold bonkers to rent an apartment out on a standard lease at the moment.

The_Conductor · 22-07-2020 8:54pm

snowcat wrote: »

You would want to be stone cold bonkers to rent an apartment out on a standard lease at the moment.

There is no such thing as a 'lease' from a tenant's perspective-as their rights are defined under the Residential Tenancies Act- and a lease may not detract in any manner from their rights under the Act. Accordingly- a lease is completely and utterly meaningless.

redarmyblues · 22-07-2020 8:56pm

snowcat wrote: »

You would want to be stone cold bonkers to rent an apartment out on a standard lease at the moment.

You would be a dribbling cretin surely, but lets see what the 1st of August brings.

I hear anecdotally that a certain not particularly well clued in Councillor from a campaigning political party in my part of the jungle has been telling his impressionable young voters that CV19 frees them from having to pay all their rent, regardless of whether even if they can afford to.

redarmyblues · 22-07-2020 9:00pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

There is no such thing as a 'lease' from a tenant's perspective-as their rights are defined under the Residential Tenancies Act- and a lease may not detract in any manner from their rights under the Act. Accordingly- a lease is completely and utterly meaningless.

In fairness there may be caveats about Part 4s, pets, posters and the like but the substantive part of the lease is legislative

the_syco · 22-07-2020 9:06pm

snowcat wrote: »

You would want to be stone cold bonkers to rent an apartment out on a standard lease at the moment.

You either have AirBnB, or a lease.

I'd imagine a few hundred (or thousand?) landlords will look at taking a hit to get out of the market, due to COVID.

redarmyblues · 22-07-2020 9:11pm

the_syco wrote: »

You either have AirBnB, or a lease.

What is to stop someone overholding on an AirBnB let?

22-07-2020 9:18pm

redarmyblues wrote: »

What is to stop someone overholding on an AirBnB let?

You can go in and kick their asses out, they are only guests in your house.

redarmyblues · 22-07-2020 9:51pm

Dav010 wrote: »

You can go in and kick their asses out, they are only guests in your house.

You might get an inquiry from a "German Student" who needs the place for a month to carry out PhD research, only to get a call from a neighbour who says there is a gang of minks running riot in the place. They refuse to move and go to Threshold, what then?

snowcat · 22-07-2020 9:52pm

Dav010 wrote: »

You can go in and kick their asses out, they are only guests in your house.

Yes if you want to. You have some hope on an Airbnb let as you are covered on their insurance. On a booking.com you have nothing. Either way if they decide not to go you have a problem. Not a patch of the problem you have if you have a standard lease on a registered prtb tenancy in this kip of a country. They effectively own your property.

22-07-2020 10:05pm

redarmyblues wrote: »

You might get an inquiry from a "German Student" who needs the place for a month to carry out PhD research, only to get a call from a neighbour who says there is a gang of minks running riot in the place. They refuse to move and go to Threshold, what then?

Just to be clear, the RTA does not cover holiday lets and the emergency legislation does not refer to short/holiday lets either. Airbnb guests do not pay the Host, they pay Airbnb. They can go to Threshold and tell whatever yarn they want, they will still be out on their arses.

22-07-2020 10:07pm

snowcat wrote: »

Yes if you want to. You have some hope on an Airbnb let as you are covered on their insurance. On a booking.com you have nothing. Either way if they decide not to go you have a problem. Not a patch of the problem you have if you have a standard lease on a registered prtb tenancy in this kip of a country. They effectively own your property.

I don’t see what the problem is you are referring to, are you saying short/holiday lets have some tenancy rights? What are you basing this on?

snowcat · 22-07-2020 10:08pm

Dav010 wrote: »

Just to be clear, the RTA does not cover holiday lets and the emergency legislation does not refer to short/holiday lets either. Airbnb guests do not pay the Host, they pay Airbnb. They can go to Threshold and tell whatever yarn they want, they will still be out on their arses.

Yes you wait for threshold to decide on that..6 months to a year later

6000 landlords a year existing the rental market

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