DNA Analysis

dubhthach · 24-03-2017 10:39am

tabbey wrote: »

I suspect they are being over specific with regard to local pinpointing places of origin. While work is in progress, I do not believe it can yet be narrowed down so precisely.

For genealogical companies, DNA is a potential goldmine, hence the snake oil sales tactics.

From what I've read about "Genetic Communities" feature that's supposedly coming at end of this month (or in early April) is that it's based off using people in their database to find matches in specific region.

So for example in case of Healy-Rae he most closely matched people who had already tested with origins in region that mentioned.

Obviously for most accurate results you are going to need people with at least 4 grandparents (or prefable 8 great-grandparents) from same geographic region. This is one of the criteria for the up and coming Irish DNA Atlas (Royal College of Surgeons involved). To be in that study a person had to have all 8 great-grandparents from a specific geographic region of around 30km across. I couldn't take part myself as I didn't meet the criteria.

Given the age of the participants the average great-grandparent was born in the late 1840's so it will give us an idea of genetic substructure in Ireland around the time of the Famine.

pinkypinky · 24-03-2017 11:03am

dubhthach wrote: »

Obviously for most accurate results you are going to need people with at least 4 grandparents (or prefable 8 great-grandparents) from same geographic region. This is one of the criteria for the up and coming Irish DNA Atlas (Royal College of Surgeons involved). To be in that study a person had to have all 8 great-grandparents from a specific geographic region of around 30km across. I couldn't take part myself as I didn't meet the criteria.

I'm the same: 6/8 are in it but there's 2 from another part of the country. I did consider submitting my aunt's DNA without telling her because she does fit the criteria, but then I decided that would be bold.

torrevieja · 24-03-2017 11:34pm

pinkypinky wrote: »

I'm the same: 6/8 are in it but there's 2 from another part of the country. I did consider submitting my aunt's DNA without telling her because she does fit the criteria, but then I decided that would be bold.

Don't tell her :rolleyes:

RGM · 28-03-2017 2:24pm

I just noticed that the new AncestryDNA "Genetic Communities" feature is now displaying on my profile. I didn't get an e-mail about it and it still says it's in beta. It has me as part of "Irish in Donegal East" and "Ulster Irish" (one being inside the other of course), which are both true, but nothing involving the rest of my tree.

Going back to third-great-grandparents, my tree breaks down as:
- 9/32 Donegal
- 6/32 Cork
- 4/32 Galway
- 2/32 Mayo
- 1/32 Roscommon
- 1/32 Offaly
- 1/32 Laois
- 1/32 Cavan
- 1/32 Derry
- 5/32 Unknown Irish (3 likely Ulster)
- 1/32 Scotland

hammy007 · 28-03-2017 3:23pm

RGM wrote: »

I just noticed that the new AncestryDNA "Genetic Communities" feature is now displaying on my profile. I didn't get an e-mail about it and it still says it's in beta. It has me as part of "Irish in Donegal East" and "Ulster Irish" (one being inside the other of course), which are both true, but nothing involving the rest of my tree.

Going back to third-great-grandparents, my tree breaks down as:
- 9/32 Donegal
- 6/32 Cork
- 4/32 Galway
- 2/32 Mayo
- 1/32 Roscommon
- 1/32 Offaly
- 1/32 Laois
- 1/32 Cavan
- 1/32 Derry
- 5/32 Unknown Irish (3 likely Ulster)
- 1/32 Scotland

Roberta Estes wrote a good analysis about it:

https://dna-explained.com/2017/03/28/genetic-communities/

Mez1982 · 28-03-2017 3:26pm

I have 2 genetic communities. Connaught Irish with a 60% likelihood and Munster Irish with a 20% likelihood. My ethnicity showed me as 77% Irish with 20% British thrown in and the rest in trace regions. There's absolutely no indication of where the 20% fits in even though I know 2 of my surnames are English and 1 being Scottish. I'm just hoping that as it's still in the beta stages that I'll eventually find out! One possibility is that my English connections havnt tested yet because this genetic communities update is going by your matches DNA and their trees..

RGM · 28-03-2017 3:34pm

Mez1982 wrote: »

I have 2 genetic communities. Connaught Irish with a 60% likelihood and Munster Irish with a 20% likelihood.

It's interesting that you have those provinces with lower likelihoods and I just don't have them at all. I have Donegal East with 60 percent and Ulster Irish with 95 percent.

What percentage of your family tree would you say falls into Munster and Connaught categories?

dubhthach · 28-03-2017 5:04pm

I've just logged in, they have me in two "Genetic communities" namely:

"Irish in Southern Ireland"

and "Munster Irish"

The labelling on second one is bit off if ye ask me, given it contains all of the historic province of Leinster (eg. south of line Galway -> Dublin).

Now my mother is from North Clare and my father is mix of Belfast and East-Galway/South-Roscommon. Both groups above seem rather vague, doesn't look like I got sub-divided into anything further.

Mez1982 · 28-03-2017 9:27pm

RGM wrote: »

It's interesting that you have those provinces with lower likelihoods and I just don't have them at all. I have Donegal East with 60 percent and Ulster Irish with 95 percent.

What percentage of your family tree would you say falls into Munster and Connaught categories?

The funny thing is none for Connaught (that I know of). Majority of my mams side would have had Munster origins so I don't understand why I got so little for there and got so much for Connaught! My paper trail goes stops about 1835 or so.
Also just looking again, Munster spills up to Leinster so my dad's side as far back were Kildare with the origins in Cavan.

Mez1982 · 28-03-2017 9:55pm

Hopefully they are viewable. Screenshots from tablet

p15574 · 29-03-2017 9:14am

Interesting story on an Ancestry DNA test in the Indo this morning:
[font=Georgia, serif]Irish woman discovers long-lost brother after they both do online DNA test[/font]
She probably decided to go public after seeing the Late Late.

RGM · 29-03-2017 9:26am

p15574 wrote: »

Interesting story on an Ancestry DNA test in the Indo this morning:
[font=Georgia, serif]Irish woman discovers long-lost brother after they both do online DNA test[/font]
She probably decided to go public after seeing the Late Late.

I played a very minor role in a similar thing recently. Two sisters who were abandoned as infants (separately) found out about each other after each decided on their own to do DNA testing. They are my fourth cousins and I was able to assist in figuring out the birth parents. A news feature will be running on them here in the states sometime this week. They met for the first time on Friday.

Gloraghgirl · 03-04-2017 10:16am

Hello ...I am still searching for my Casey's and i have heard the name Gill before..i did a DNA test and have a Gedmatch number if you want we could see if we are a match? :-)

JamboMac · 03-04-2017 6:53pm

Ordered my first kit from ancestryDNA, being Irish I expect it to be boring, as in your Irish the end. The community thing seems fun. But what is the turn around? I've seen some people online complain.

Also I know they don't do the y and x haplogroup, but I understand their is a site for free for the y is their x one?

Mez1982 · 03-04-2017 9:21pm

JamboMac wrote: »

Ordered my first kit from ancestryDNA, being Irish I expect it to be boring, as in your Irish the end. The community thing seems fun. But what is the turn around? I've seen some people online complain.

Also I know they don't do the y and x haplogroup, but I understand their is a site for free for the y is their x one?

When I ordered mine in November, it was a 2 week turn around from ordering to results. I couldn't believe how fast it was. I had myself geared up for the time frame they had set out. It is possible that they are just backlogged from the offer they had around mother's day? I did read that around those times when they have money off promotions, they do tend to be alot slower with the results.

JamboMac · 04-04-2017 12:34pm

That saliva sample is difficult and I feel there may be more than saliva, here's hoping it's a good sample.

Wyldwood · 04-04-2017 9:48pm

I sent my sample away on 1st March and it's still not in Lab Processing so looks like it will take the full 6-8 weeks. The anticipation is killing!

JamboMac · 04-04-2017 9:56pm

Wyldwood wrote: »

I sent my sample away on 1st March and it's still not in Lab Processing so looks like it will take the full 6-8 weeks. The anticipation is killing!

Yeah I remember when I had patience and I could wait that long. Wonder do they do it in John rogersons quay or do they send it to America.

BowWow · 04-04-2017 9:57pm

Wyldwood wrote: »

I sent my sample away on 1st March and it's still not in Lab Processing so looks like it will take the full 6-8 weeks. The anticipation is killing!

Dam! Mine only went in on the 22nd March, so I've a good long wait so..........

JamboMac · 04-04-2017 10:03pm

Does anybody know whether they stand by the offer they give you immediately after buying the DNA kit for the membership. It was initially half the price they quote but now has gone back up. The site seems a bit badly made to be honest.

RGM · 04-04-2017 10:44pm

So FTDNA has updated their "My Origins" feature and, at least for me, it seems pretty bad. They used to have me as 100 percent "British Isles." I'm now 17 percent East Europe for some reason, which makes no sense at all and is at odds with the two other companies I've tested with, not to mention my family tree.

It would seem FTDNA continues to lag behind in this area.

hammy007 · 05-04-2017 12:29pm

RGM wrote: »

So FTDNA has updated their "My Origins" feature and, at least for me, it seems pretty bad. They used to have me as 100 percent "British Isles." I'm now 17 percent East Europe for some reason, which makes no sense at all and is at odds with the two other companies I've tested with, not to mention my family tree.

It would seem FTDNA continues to lag behind in this area.

In fairness, they are all estimates, and can't truly be relied upon with certainly. I actually found my new FTDNA ethnicity results more similar to my Ancestry results, whereas before they were a good bit different.

FTDNA:
West and Central Europe 66%
Iberia 20%
British Isles 9%
East Europe 3%
Asia Minor < 2%
West Middle East < 2%

Ancestry:
Europe West 52%
Iberian Peninsula 19%
Great Britain 16%
Italy/Greece 4%
Ireland 3%
Scandinavia 3%
West Asia 3%
Caucasus 2%
Middle East < 1%

torrevieja · 05-04-2017 11:07pm

JamboMac wrote: »

Does anybody know whether they stand by the offer they give you immediately after buying the DNA kit for the membership. It was initially half the price they quote but now has gone back up. The site seems a bit badly made to be honest.

I think the postage they charge is a disgrace ...

JamboMac · 05-04-2017 11:39pm

torrevieja wrote: »

I think the postage they charge is a disgrace ...

I know 20 from John Rogerson quay in Dublin and back. They post dhl but surely that could be cheaper. The day I got put it back in the post next day they get via an post. Probably 3 euro round trip with them.

Hope I don't have to wait to long, another stupid thing is spouse. Just because people have a child does not mean they where married.

Started building my family tree and it's heavily on the pink side.

RGM · 06-04-2017 1:44am

hammy007 wrote: »

In fairness, they are all estimates, and can't truly be relied upon with certainly. I actually found my new FTDNA ethnicity results more similar to my Ancestry results, whereas before they were a good bit different.

They are estimates, yes. It's just disconcerting to see an upgrade make the estimate less accurate than it was before.

Maybe I'm an outlier in this case, I don't know.

pinkypinky · 06-04-2017 9:27am

The tests come from and go back to a lab in the USA. It's just customer service and finance on Sir John Rogerson's Quay.

InTheTrees · 11-04-2017 4:23pm

JamboMac wrote: »

That saliva sample is difficult and I feel there may be more than saliva, here's hoping it's a good sample.

I had to do it twice. About three weeks after i sent mine in (to Ancestry) i got another testing kit in the post with a note saying my last saliva sample wasnt good enough. Second time worked fine though.

JamboMac · 26-04-2017 1:38am

Anybody else get the lovely email that coz they where busy during Christmas it's gonna be a delay? It's now nearly may, Christmas should not effect may. In all fairness it's only week 3 since I sent it just worried that this delay could end up being 3 months or something.

Wyldwood · 26-04-2017 7:06pm

Well, it's 8 weeks since I sent mine in and it's been in Lab Processing for the past week and still no news so I think you might have a bit of a wait, I'm afraid.

RGM · 26-04-2017 7:25pm

JamboMac wrote: »

Anybody else get the lovely email that coz they where busy during Christmas it's gonna be a delay? It's now nearly may, Christmas should not effect may. In all fairness it's only week 3 since I sent it just worried that this delay could end up being 3 months or something.

Christmas affects May when you sell 1.4 million DNA kits in the last quarter of the year.

Also, a surprisingly high number of people do not immediately send in their kit. I'm sure numerous Christmas kits were still being mailed in last month.

JamboMac · 26-04-2017 7:55pm

RGM wrote: »

Christmas affects May when you sell 1.4 million DNA kits in the last quarter of the year.

Also, a surprisingly high number of people do not immediately send in their kit. I'm sure numerous Christmas kits were still being mailed in last month.

You should only join the lab queue when you send it in, shouldn't be based on when it was purchased. Wouldn't make sense to prioritise kits that ancestry sold during Christmas if people took 4 months to return it realistically they should join the back of the queue.

RGM · 26-04-2017 8:09pm

JamboMac wrote: »

You should only join the lab queue when you send it in, shouldn't be based on when it was purchased. Wouldn't make sense to prioritise kits that ancestry sold during Christmas if people took 4 months to return it realistically they should join the back of the queue.

It's not about priority, it's about volume. Ancestry sold 400 thousand more kits in the last quarter of 2016 than they did in all of 2015.

Apparently they've just opened a second lab, or so I've heard.

InTheTrees · 26-04-2017 11:05pm

RGM wrote: »

It's not about priority, it's about volume. Ancestry sold 400 thousand more kits in the last quarter of 2016 than they did in all of 2015.

Apparently they've just opened a second lab, or so I've heard.

I wonder if its due to the emergence of a few competitors resulting in a bit of an advertising war between them all before Xmas?

I must revisit my results from early last year I wonder if the numbers have changed at all.

dubhthach · 27-04-2017 10:24am

Well most of competitors have been there for several years, (23andme and FamilytreeDNA are big ones). Ancestry have been mounting a very large scale advertising campaign. I think they are track to hit 4 million samples by end of this year (they hit 3 million in January). This is extremely fast growth. I've even notice they have started running adds on RT? (seen them during 6.01 news etc.)

Scale really matters when it comes to testing database that's for sure.

dubhthach · 27-04-2017 10:24am

Well most of competitors have been there for several years, (23andme and FamilytreeDNA are big ones). Ancestry have been mounting a very large scale advertising campaign. I think they are track to hit 4 million samples by end of this year (they hit 3 million in January). This is extremely fast growth. I've even notice they have started running adds on RTÉ (seen them during 6.01 news etc.)

Scale really matters when it comes to testing database that's for sure.

dubhthach · 27-04-2017 11:20am

Ok it would seem they actually sold 1 million kits in 3 months! growing their database by 33% in size!

Ancestry%2Bfour%2Bmillion.jpg

see details here:
https://cruwys.blogspot.ie/2017/04/ancestrydna-passes-four-million.html

spurious · 27-04-2017 3:02pm

Once everyone uploads to GEDMatch (for free) it doesn't matter so much which company did the original test.

Ancestry's seems rather expensive in comparison to what I paid FTDNA.

doctorwho-fan · 30-04-2017 9:44pm

I just ordered my kit looking forward to results no matter how long it takes

JamboMac · 30-04-2017 9:46pm

doctorwho-fan wrote: »

I just ordered my kit looking forward to results no matter how long it takes

Might find out your not even a doctor who fan like you think.:D

The tree stuff is fun to pass the time for a while.

Wyldwood · 30-04-2017 10:08pm

For anyone waiting for results, I sent mine in on the 1st March and got my results today so a full 2 months wait.
Results were quite boring 72% Irish, 27% Great Britain & 2% Scandinavian. Also, I don't have any Genetic Community matches so that's disappointing.

JamboMac · 30-04-2017 10:22pm

Cool so if they keep to that schedule i should have mine in 4 weeks. Funny how none of the celebs on the late late show had 0 community mathches.

JamboMac · 11-05-2017 1:23pm

Anybody know how long it takes after it hits lab processing?
I assume my sample must be good, at least I hope so.

BowWow · 11-05-2017 2:47pm

JamboMac wrote: »

Anybody know how long it takes after it hits lab processing?
I assume my sample must be good, at least I hope so.

Mine in lab at present. Reached lab 3 days ago - prior to that it was 46 days from the time they acknowledged receipt. Will let you know when it moves from lab processing.

JamboMac · 11-05-2017 2:50pm

BowWow wrote: »

Mine in lab at present. Reached lab 3 days ago - prior to that it was 46 days from the time they acknowledged receipt. Will let you know when it moves from lab processing.

Thanks, hope I find something interesting.

InTheTrees · 11-05-2017 2:59pm

I went and checked my results, it's been a year and I expected some changes with the amount of new samples ancestry must have been getting.

All I could find was my trace of "Iberian peninsula" went up from 1% to 3%.

I'm still mostly Europe West, Ireland and Scandinavia.

Wyldwood · 11-05-2017 6:32pm

Mine took about a week from when it went into lab processing until I got the results.

Initially, I had no genetic communities but last week it was updated and a community was added (Cork, which would be accurate)

Alicat · 11-05-2017 9:00pm

Mine finally went into lab processing yesterday. Also 42 days since they received it!

Ordered some new tests for family members who might not be around in a few years.

Lia_lia · 19-05-2017 10:24am

Got my Ancestry results today. My test was received on March 27th, results today.

Interesting enough!
Ireland 53%
Great Britain 21%
Scandinavia 15%
Italy/Greece 3%
Iberian peninsula 2%
Finland 2%

Europe East <1%
Middle East 2%
Caucasus <1%

For genetic communities I got: North Connacht, Munster Irish, Northern England, Southern Enland, English in West Midlands.

My Mother is Irish and Father is English. I want to do one with another company now..

dubhthach · 19-05-2017 10:54am

Lia_lia wrote: »

Got my Ancestry results today. My test was received on March 27th, results today.

Interesting enough!
Ireland 53%
Great Britain 21%
Scandinavia 15%
Italy/Greece 3%
Iberian peninsula 2%
Finland 2%

Europe East <1%
Middle East 2%
Caucasus <1%

For genetic communities I got: North Connacht, Munster Irish, Northern England, Southern Enland, English in West Midlands.

My Mother is Irish and Father is English. I want to do one with another company now..

What part of England is your father from? Many of British samples are going to have "Scandinavian" show up as a component. Here's a table from a blog post back in 2015 (when their database was considerably smaller). This can be quite ancient, now it's not necessary "Viking" in origin, but some of it could also reflect earlier movement to Britain in the post-Roman period (eg. post 400AD)

https://blogs.ancestry.com/ancestry/2015/06/23/ancestrydna-the-viking-in-the-room/

With regards to the genetic communities they will give you a percentage on how accurate they think they are, do the Irish ones match up with your mother's known ancestry?

dubhthach · 19-05-2017 10:58am

What should be remember is that the "Ireland" component is really a bit of a minomer, it reflects an ancestral component that is modal in modern Irish population, but it is more widespread geographically than just Ireland. So in reality it probably reflective of a population structure found across NW insular Europe. (possibly dating back a considerable time) see following blog posts:
2015
https://blogs.ancestry.com/ancestry/2015/03/16/what-does-our-dna-tell-us-about-being-irish/

2017:
https://blogs.ancestry.com/ancestry/2017/01/25/ancestrydna-the-irish-connection/

(note the French sample in blog -- with Northern French ancestry-- got 25% "Ireland")

DNA Analysis

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