How are landlords getting away with this??

the_syco · 03-11-2019 7:47pm

Jadiel Salty Bandana wrote: »

The point is - this place was going for under 500 just two short years ago.

Due to RPZ rules, you have to bump it up by 4% every year, as you're not allowed to bump it up suddenly when a tenant leaves.

Jadiel Salty Bandana wrote: »

Other landlords are charging similar rates again, cause there's a shortage.
And feel entitled/justified in doing so?

....

Shoot them out of a cannon - give them a little perspective on life.

So you want LL's to sell it, so that there's less places to rent?

03-11-2019 7:51pm

pinksoir wrote: »

Yes Berlin is cheap by German standards, and yes home ownership is low here. But we're talking about a box in Sligo here. No way, in any world, is that worth 700 quid. What percentage of an average person's salary in Sligo is that? It's crazy.

It's not just two markets, it's two philosophies on housing. Maybe there's something to be learned.

There's other measures in place to keep rent prices in line in Berlin too (e.g., if your LL is charging over the odds compared to similar properties you are entitled to be paid back the excess and for the rent to be dropped accordingly). But over the last few years prices have been creeping up steadily and the people were up in arms and pressured the gov into doing something.

Rents are cheaper here partly because salaries are lower. The rule that LLs adhere to is that rent is max 30% of net household income. So if rents spiral no one will be able to afford to live here. Something had to be done.

Will freezing rents have knock on effects? Probably. But theres a lot of money to be made here long term on rental income. Maybe the types of investors that want to make a quick buck aren't the type we want in control of our housing stock.

Value is subjective and dependent on local markets. I mention going further East, in some of the Eastern Bloc countries, what you are paying may seem a rip off, different economies, different markets.

Home ownership is Berlin is approx 15%, large property companies own huge proportions of the rental properties and as such have been able to double rents in recent years, all problems similar to here.

That “box” as you call it may be a reasonable size for a single bed apartment and in the market where it is located, seems reasonable value.

Average wage here is €38k per year, this apartment would be 21% of that. Of course if you base that on net income, all LLs would look for high earners rather than an average wage.

Technocentral wrote: »

Plus Germans aren't a bunch of greedy bastards like the Irish.

History would say otherwise.

Samuel T. Cogley · 03-11-2019 7:53pm

pinksoir wrote: »

But there are extremely strong tenant rights in Berlin, it's very much in favour of the tenant in general. Eviction isn't immediate also, can take up to 6 months and must go through the courts. Costly.

Where as in Ireland we have the same process but it takes anywhere up to 24 months with no prospect of recovering the costs.

pinksoir wrote: »

Damage comes out if your deposit. Damage beyond deposit amount can be reclaimed through legal action. Again, costly.

I was under the impression that in Germany all you got was a shell.

Edit: Berlin's rental freeze doesn't apply to new property, large REITs are driving prices in Dublin, asking prices have become decoupled from what people are actually paying, who aren't renting the top of the top end.

Technocentral · 03-11-2019 7:55pm

Dav010 wrote:

History would say otherwise.

Nonsense, Germany is much more of a civic minded society than Ireland.

Orderofchaos · 03-11-2019 7:56pm

OP, your trolling efforts are very sub par lately. Pick up your game ffs.

03-11-2019 7:58pm

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Where as in Ireland we have the same process but it takes anywhere up to 24 months with no prospect of recovering the costs.

I was under the impression that in Germany all you got was a shell.

Edit: Berlin's rental freeze doesn't apply to new property, large REITs are driving prices in Dublin, asking prices have become decoupled from what people are actually paying, who aren't renting the top of the top end.

I was in Berlin a couple of weeks ago, driving back to the airport through the student areas, I asked the taxi driver why there were so many derelict buildings, guess what he said, “ property too expensive, rents to low, so no building”

I knew I read that somewhere about new builds, I think it does not apply to anything built in the last 5 years but I’ll have to find the article.

Samuel T. Cogley · 03-11-2019 8:00pm

Dav010 wrote: »

I was in Berlin a couple of weeks ago, driving back to the airport through the student areas, I asked the taxi driver why there were so many derelict buildings, guess what he said, “ property too expensive, rents to low, so no building”

I knew I read that somewhere about new builds, I think it does not apply to anything built in the last 5 years but I’ll have to find the article.

5 years is also my understanding. They're basically allowing large REITs to come in and do what they're doing in Dublin.

CalamariFritti · 03-11-2019 8:06pm

I tend to agree with OP. Its a shoebox and people make it out as if 680 was nothing.

Yes its 'the market' and all that. But if such is the market that this is deemed 'grand' and 'normal' then there is a problem.

Fritzbox · 03-11-2019 8:14pm

Dav010 wrote: »

I was in Berlin a couple of weeks ago, driving back to the airport through the student areas, I asked the taxi driver why there were so many derelict buildings, guess what he said, “ property too expensive, rents to low, so no building”

I knew I read that somewhere about new builds, I think it does not apply to anything built in the last 5 years but I’ll have to find the article.

Population of Berlin has not increased by any significant amount since the Wall came down in 1989. I wouldn't be surprised if the population of Dublin has increased by 50% in the same period - much more pressure on housing.

the_syco · 03-11-2019 8:16pm

CalamariFritti wrote: »

I tend to agree with OP. Its a shoebox and people make it out as if 680 was nothing.

It has a double bed, so would suit a couple. Heck, it would suit a single person.

It's also the cheapest letting in Sligo.

Guy:Incognito · 03-11-2019 8:17pm

CalamariFritti wrote: »

I tend to agree with OP. Its a shoebox and people make it out as if 680 was nothing.

Yes its 'the market' and all that. But if such is the market that this is deemed 'grand' and 'normal' then there is a problem.

Presumably if you were selling a product or providing a service to earn your money youd keep the price as low as possible?

pinksoir · 03-11-2019 8:19pm

Dav010 wrote: »

Average wage here is €38k per year, this apartment would be 21% of that. Of course if you base that on net income, all LLs would look for high earners rather than an average wage.

Sorry, median income in Sligo is 38k per year is it? Presuming it is, 700 per month is close to 30% net. So the person earning the median national salary in Sligo would be delighted to pay 30% of their income on that place. Lol at the landlord looking for high earners. Sorry, if you're a high earner looking to rent that place, you'd need to re-evaluate what you're doing with your life!

Not sure why you're talking about Eastern block countries either. Of course markets are different, but Berlin is hardly Belgrade or Bucharest.

Honestly, nowhere is perfect, and Berlin has its issues, but one of the things they definitely have right is their attitude to property and housing. A big factor in why I moved here.

03-11-2019 8:30pm

pinksoir wrote: »

Sorry, median income in Sligo is 38k per year is it? Presuming it is, 700 per month is close to 30% net. So the person earning the median national salary in Sligo would be delighted to pay 30% of their income on that place. Lol at the landlord looking for high earners. Sorry, if you're a high earner looking to rent that place, you'd need to re-evaluate what you're doing with your life!

Not sure why you're talking about Eastern block countries either. Of course markets are different, but Berlin is hardly Belgrade or Bucharest.

Honestly, nowhere is perfect, and Berlin has its issues, but one of the things they definitely have right is their attitude to property and housing. A big factor in why I moved here.

My reason for mentioning Eastern Bloc countries is that different economies and market conditions mean fluctuations in prices, it is pointless comparing them.

€38k is the national average wage, I would suspect net would be higher in Sligo than in say somewhere like Dublin due to the lower cost of living.

I’m not sure anyone is delighted to pay €680 on rent, but they be slightly happier than the person paying €1000, as another poster said, this appears to be the cheapest rental available.

One of the reasons Irish people prefer to own than rent is that the term of the mortgage usually elapses before you retire, so at the time of your life when income declines significantly, so to do your living expenses. If you rent, those costs increase at a time when earnings decrease. This is one of the problems which the German economy is facing, the Berliner 20-something’s of the 80s are now approaching retirement.

ABEasy · 03-11-2019 8:37pm

I'm sure I'll regret the effort but, just to put things in perspective and show the op what the landlord is making charging that rip off rent, below is a reasonable estimation of costs assuming cost of apt is 70k, rent is actually paid and the tenants don't trash the place.

Rent 680x12=8160
Less
PRTB=90
LPT=90
Insurance=300
Agent fees 11%=898
Management fees=1000
Mortgage Interest (70k@4.5%)=3150
Life cover on mortgage=360
Annual maintenance=650
Accountant to file tax return=360
Phone and travel costs=250

Leaves a profit of 1012, eat of tax at higher rate, 606.

So the landlord is left with a net profit of 606, for taking a massive risk in providing a place for you to live!!

Just to put it into perspective

pinksoir · 03-11-2019 8:41pm

Dav010 wrote: »

I was in Berlin a couple of weeks ago, driving back to the airport through the student areas, I asked the taxi driver why there were so many derelict buildings, guess what he said, “ property too expensive, rents to low, so no building”

I knew I read that somewhere about new builds, I think it does not apply to anything built in the last 5 years but I’ll have to find the article.

There are many derelict buildings, but there's also lots of building going on. On my street there's a huge new development. Loads of building near where I work. Loads of repurposing of factories etc into housing. Cranes all over the skyline.

But definitely not enough housing currently and it's expensive to buy. Regularly 40 - 100 people turn up to property viewings.

Samuel T. Cogley · 03-11-2019 8:41pm

ABEasy wrote: »

I'm sure I'll regret the effort but, just to put things in perspective and show the op what the landlord is making charging that rip off rent, below is a reasonable estimation of costs assuming cost of apt is 70k, rent is actually paid and the tenants don't trash the place.

Rent 680x12=8160
Less
PRTB=90
LPT=90
Insurance=300
Agent fees 11%=898
Management fees=1000
Mortgage Interest (70k@4.5%)=3150
Life cover on mortgage=360
Annual maintenance=650
Accountant to file tax return=360
Phone and travel costs=250

Leaves a profit of 1012, eat of tax at higher rate, 606.

So the landlord is left with a net profit of 606, for taking a massive risk in providing a place for you to live!!

Just to put it into perspective

In fairness you haven't included equity gained in the profit calculation. Not that it'll change your very valid point.

Samuel T. Cogley · 03-11-2019 8:42pm

pinksoir wrote: »

There are many derelict buildings, but there's also lots of building going on. On my street there's a huge new development. Loads of building near where I work. Loads of repurposing of factories etc into housing. Cranes all over the skyline.

But definitely not enough housing currently and it's expensive to buy. Regularly 40 - 100 people turn up to property viewings.

None of that is going to be covered by this rental freeze.

Sleeper12 · 03-11-2019 8:43pm

ABEasy wrote:

So the landlord is left with a net profit of 606, for taking a massive risk in providing a place for you to live!!

It's called an investment. Tennant is actually buying the property for the LL. There are very few investments where you pay out such a small amount of money for the return of investment over a 20 or thirty year period.

BarryD2 · 03-11-2019 8:46pm

ABEasy wrote: »

So the landlord is left with a net profit of 606, for taking a massive risk in providing a place for you to live!!

AND ultimately an asset worth €70K plus inflation, paid off by those renting. And if some of that rent is done in cash, bobs your uncle.

Fritzbox · 03-11-2019 8:47pm

ABEasy wrote: »

I'm sure I'll regret the effort but, just to put things in perspective and show the op what the landlord is making charging that rip off rent, below is a reasonable estimation of costs assuming cost of apt is 70k, rent is actually paid and the tenants don't trash the place.

Rent 680x12=8160
Less
PRTB=90
LPT=90
Insurance=300
Agent fees 11%=898
Management fees=1000
Mortgage Interest (70k@4.5%)=3150
Life cover on mortgage=360
Annual maintenance=650
Accountant to file tax return=360
Phone and travel costs=250

Leaves a profit of 1012, eat of tax at higher rate, 606.

So the landlord is left with a net profit of 606, for taking a massive risk in providing a place for you to live!!

Just to put it into perspective

How can you be so sure that there are agent or management fees or that the accountant fees even exist? And why would phone and travel costs be so high - they'd be negligible surely?

Conall Cernach · 03-11-2019 8:49pm

One bed apartments are also going for €700 a month in Monaghan town. At least Sligo has an IT and large hospital.

03-11-2019 8:51pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

It's called an investment. Tennant is actually buying the property for the LL. There are very few investments where you pay out such a small amount of money for the return of investment over a 20 or thirty year period.

This is incorrect. The tenant is paying for his/her accommodation, not buying the property for the Landlord.

You are correct about it being an investment, and like all investments it’s value can go up and down, that is the risk you take, but again, the tenant does not buy the property for the LL.

I can’t think of another investment where gains are capped and where an entity like a tenant can stop paying for the service, and still legally get the benefit of it.

ABEasy · 03-11-2019 8:58pm

Fritzbox wrote: »

How can you be so sure that there are agent or management fees or that the accountant fees even exist? And why would phone and travel costs be so high - they'd be negligible surely?

Management fees, it's an apartment, management company will own the freehold and owner will have a leasehold interest, costs of the building will be spread over the owners. As it's an apartment this is most likely probable.

Agent fees, assume this is a straight investment you'd have an agent manage it. If not price it the owners own time as opportunity cost and the increased risk of poor tenants and also the cost of letting.

Accountant, owner is obliged to file a tax return as income exceeds the limit to register. Landlord would not be required to file a return if he didn't have rent, this is an additional cost of being a landlord.

Phone & travel, I think this is very reasonable. Cost of actual phone, 2nd number, private number is a private number not a business number, travel at civil service mileage rate (incorporates vehicle, ins, tax, service, tryes, fuel).

ABEasy · 03-11-2019 9:00pm

BarryD2 wrote: »

AND ultimately an asset worth €70K plus inflation, paid off by those renting. And if some of that rent is done in cash, bobs your uncle.

At 606 per annum, you'd own the asset in 115 years and 6 months.

pinksoir · 03-11-2019 9:08pm

Dav010 wrote: »

My reason for mentioning Eastern Bloc countries is that different economies and market conditions mean fluctuations in prices, it is pointless comparing them.

Fair enough. My point is that rent in Sligo should not be more expensive than rent in Berlin, whatever way you cut it.

€38k is the national average wage, I would suspect net would be higher in Sligo than in say somewhere like Dublin due to the lower cost of living.

Net is salary after tax and pension deductions (as it happens, in Germany net also includes health insurance deductions of 8% of the gross salary). Nothing to do with cost of living. I'd imagine the average net salary in Sligo is much less than that of Dublin.

What sort of salary do you think you would be making and considering renting that place? The national median? Unlikely. You don't earn that kind of money in Sligo and pay 30% of it on a tiny one bed with a shower and hallway for a living area. Much more likely the person renting that place is on minimum wage. 40% of your take home pay in that case. I actually can't believe you're arguing that that's reasonable. Would you personally pay it? Genuinely?

I’m not sure anyone is delighted to pay €680 on rent, but they be slightly happier than the person paying €1000, as another poster said, this appears to be the cheapest rental available.

Something is deeply screwed up if that's the case. What jobs are in Sligo? I used to go there a lot in my 20s and it was lovely but very little in the way of employment opportunity outside of working in a pub or in tourism.

One of the reasons Irish people prefer to own than rent is that the term of the mortgage usually elapses before you retire, so at the time of your life when income declines significantly, so to do your living expenses. If you rent, those costs increase at a time when earnings decrease. This is one of the problems which the German economy is facing, the Berliner 20-something’s of the 80s are now approaching retirement.

Yeah well, good luck saving for a mortgage when most of your salary is going on rent. The only people I know who own are folk who bought in the last boom, got a sweet deal during the recession, or, post recession, got a huge amount of help from their parents. I know people in their 40s who are in the rental trap most likely forever. Sharing houses with 3 others. And on decent salaries. Tons of people moving back home too. It's hopeless.

So, presumably you're doing ok so everyone else should just suck it up and deal with it. The rental situation is fine, just buy a house, I'm alright Jack.

Sleeper12 · 03-11-2019 9:11pm

Dav010 wrote:

This is incorrect. The tenant is paying for his/her accommodation, not buying the property for the Landlord.

Yes and no. Obviously tenant is paying rent but in the ridiculous scenario posted with the expenses the tenant is paying for mortgage. If the LL actually pays the mortgage then it doesn't come out of the rent. If it comes out of the rent then it goes in the profit column and not the loss column.

My point is that including mortgage payments as expenses in the scenario posted means LL only pays for 25 percent of the cost of buying the property. The tenant pays the rest of the purchase price.

Dav010 wrote:

You are correct about it being an investment, and like all investments itâ€™s value can go up and down, that is the risk you take, but again, the tenant does not buy the property for the LL.

Average property value has only dropped considerably once in Ireland in the last 70 years or so. Property is a long term investment. Even properties bought in 2007 will have increased in value over the period of the mortgage.

ABEasy · 03-11-2019 9:18pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Yes and no. Obviously tenant is paying rent but in the ridiculous scenario posted with the expenses the tenant is paying for mortgage. If the LL actually pays the mortgage then it doesn't come out of the rent. If it comes out of the rent then it goes in the profit column and not the loss column.

My point is that including mortgage payments as expenses in the scenario posted means LL only pays for 25 percent of the cost of buying the property. The tenant pays the rest of the purchase price.

Average property value has only dropped considerably once in Ireland in the last 70 years or so. Property is a long term investment. Even properties bought in 2007 will have increased in value over the period of the mortgage.

Just to clarify, the scenario I posted did not include capital repayments, I included the mortgage interest only. The capital repayments would be in addition to the interest charges!!

Edit: also the capital appreciation point you make is akin to gambling, rental as a business should never factor in capital appreciation (as it did pre 2007, and we saw the results of that thinking)

Sleeper12 · 03-11-2019 9:18pm

ABEasy wrote:

Management fees, it's an apartment, management company will own the freehold and owner will have a leasehold interest, costs of the building will be spread over the owners. As it's an apartment this is most likely probable.

Look it up on Google Street View. Doesn't seem to be any building on John's Street that would have management fees.

03-11-2019 9:19pm

pinksoir wrote: »

Fair enough. My point is that rent in Sligo should not be more expensive than rent in Berlin, whatever way you cut it.

Net is salary after tax deductions. Nothing to do with cost of living. I'd imagine the average net salary in Sligo is much less than that of Dublin.

What sort of salary do you think you would be making and considering renting that place? The national median? Unlikely. You don't earn that kind of money in Sligo and pay 30% of it on a tiny one bed with a shower and hallway for a living area. Much more likely the person renting that place is on minimum wage. 40% of your take home pay in that case. I actually can't believe you're arguing that that's reasonable. Would you personally pay it? Genuinely?

Something is deeply screwed up if that's the case. What jobs are in Sligo? I used to go there a lot in my 20s and it was lovely but very little in the way of employment opportunity outside of working in a pub or in tourism.

There you go again, not understanding the difference between markets. If there are a lot of people looking to rent in a town like Sligo with an IT and a large Hospital, a large Pharmaceutical company and apparently huge expansion by IT companies, and there are very, very few rental properties, then €680 is the market price. Any place where supply is low and demand is high, makes it possible that rents will be higher than Berlin.

Why would you think the net salary would be different than in Dublin, yes you would have better paying jobs, but you also have a lot more people there on minimum wage.

Would I pay it? Yes if I had to.

pinksoir · 03-11-2019 9:21pm

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

None of that is going to be covered by this rental freeze.

That is true. Not the point of the post though.

And anyway, I can see now what my rent will be in one of those new developments. Ten year lease. Rent rise of ~0.5% per year. As is customary here. My current lease is the same.

The rent hikes are happening when new tenants enter. But most landlords are reasonable enough with the increases and it's not like in Ireland where it could be 2-300 quid in one go.

Long term tenants are happy enough. Once you're in a place, you know exactly what your rent will be in 5, 10 years time. Makes life much easier.

03-11-2019 9:24pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Average property value has only dropped considerably once in Ireland in the last 70 years or so. Property is a long term investment. Even properties bought in 2007 will have increased in value over the period of the mortgage.

You are making some huge assumptions there. Firstly, prior to 2007, no one ever expected property prices to drop, only an idiot would think it is impossible. Most LL do not expect to rent for 30 years. And lastly, as evident by the number of LLs leaving the market when rents are so high, problem tenants make the investment to much of a risk.

ABEasy · 03-11-2019 9:26pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Look it up on Google Street View. Doesn't seem to be any building on John's Street that would have management fees.

I didn't go to that much bother tbh but the calculation translates to similar properties. In relation to this property, no management company will lead to additional increased costs for insurance, refuse charges, common area l&h costs, common area & structural maintenance and major structural maintenance (similar to sinking fund costs, roof, etc)

pinksoir · 03-11-2019 9:33pm

Dav010 wrote: »

There you go again, not understanding the difference between markets. If there are a lot of people looking to rent in a town like Sligo with an IT and a large Hospital, a large Pharmaceutical company and apparently huge expansion by IT companies, and there are very, very few rental properties, then €680 is the market price. Any place where supply is low and demand is high, makes it possible that rents will be higher than Berlin.

Honestly, I understand how the market works. I can also see issues with the housing situation in Ireland. Can you not? It's perfectly fine in your opinion?

Why would you think the net salary would be different than in Dublin, yes you would have better paying jobs, but you also have a lot more people there on minimum wage.

Because the median salary in Sligo would differ from that of Dublin. Quick check, yes average salary in Sligo is 28k net, and 36k net in Dublin. That's average, not median.

Would I pay it? Yes if I had to.

Course you would. Everything is fine.

Sleeper12 · 03-11-2019 9:38pm

Dav010 wrote:

You are making some huge assumptions there. Firstly, prior to 2007, no one ever expected property prices to drop, only an idiot would think it is impossible. Most LL do not expect to rent for 30 years. And lastly, as evident by the number of LLs leaving the market when rents are so high, problem tenants make the investment to much of a risk.

That's definitely not true. We had been warned for a few years before 2007. People decided to ignore the warnings. GWD itself was up for sale in 2007. They tried to sell their estate agents before it popped. Lots of people sold investment property in the mid 0s and bought again in 2010/2012. Plenty of LLs with several properties stopped buying around 2000.

Investment property has always been a long term investment.

03-11-2019 9:42pm

pinksoir wrote: »

Honestly, I understand how the market works. I can also see issues with the housing situation in Ireland. Can you not? It's perfectly fine in your opinion?

Because the median salary in Sligo would differ from that of Dublin. Quick check, yes average salary in Sligo is 28k net, and 36k net in Dublin. That's average, not median.

Course you would. Everything is fine.

I really don’t think you do.

Of course it isn’t perfectly fine, the fact that there is high demand, low stock, rising rents yet significant reduction in Landlords staying in/entering the market means it is very far from fine. But that still does not mean that you and the op are right.

As I posted earlier, your higher net salary in Dublin may not necessarily equate to more money in your pocket to spend.

And yes, having lived in London and New York in the nineties, I paid a lot more for a lot less than this particular apartment. If I needed a flat to rent and this was the best out there for my budget, damn right I’d rent it.

bo0li5eumx12kp · 03-11-2019 9:46pm

ShaneODub wrote: »

You could *easily* swing a cat in there. No bother.

No you couldn't.

At least if you're over 5' 9".

I've been there.

It's cramped as hell.

Sleeper12 · 03-11-2019 9:48pm

Jadiel Salty Bandana wrote:

No you couldn't.

You could swing a kitten though.

03-11-2019 9:48pm

Jadiel Salty Bandana wrote: »

No you couldn't.

At least if you're over 5' 9".

I've been there.

It's cramped as hell.

You understand that we can see the pictures?

pwurple · 03-11-2019 9:49pm

Can OP see any problem with penalising suppliers so they all high tail it and then being surprised when only pure junk is left?

Beatings will continue until morale improves.

bo0li5eumx12kp · 03-11-2019 9:56pm

antix80 wrote: »

Op.. The solution. Get a mortgage.. Prob 5%.. Buy a site, hire a few builders, and then rent out your A energy rated home for €500. And make sure you don't discriminate when choosing a tenant.

Mate - I've shared all muh life up until 2 years ago.

I've lived with junkies, perverts, degenerates.
Hell there was even a hooker working upstairs at in one place.

We all have experience with it, from college days, to early working - before you met your wife - days.

But I have - MORE experience with it.
Trust me.

If I were to privately rent a home, I would not extort tenants; period.
It's capitalist and I think many LL's do it to stroke their own ego and feel validated more than anything.

And as far as I'm concerned, junkies belong out in bog holes, apartments in places where buses only travel to once a day - far out in the country, probably trying to grow marijuana in their bathrooms.

Unless you advocate turning an A energy rated home into a crack den.

Point being - overcharging for a one bed place in a shanty hick town, bears no relevance to facilitating the local drug culture.

Samuel T. Cogley · 03-11-2019 10:00pm

Jadiel Salty Bandana wrote: »

If I were to privately rent a home, I would not extort tenants; period.

I'm sure you'd just try and cover the mortgage and tax...

03-11-2019 10:02pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

That's definitely not true. We had been warned for a few years before 2007. People decided to ignore the warnings. GWD itself was up for sale in 2007. They tried to sell their estate agents before it popped. Lots of people sold investment property in the mid 0s and bought again in 2010/2012. Plenty of LLs with several properties stopped buying around 2000.

Investment property has always been a long term investment.

I see, why did so many people lose their homes/investments if they were “long term investments”? To say that increase in value is guaranteed and without risk is naive. Tenants do not buy properties for Landlords, the rent they pay is in return for service/accommodation provided. You do not know, nor indeed is it of any concern to you, what that rent is needed or used for by the LL.

At the rate at which property prices are rising and the way world economies, particularly in the Eurozone are performing, you could be the only person who is certain markets/prices will not fall at some stage. I admire your optimism.

bo0li5eumx12kp · 03-11-2019 10:03pm

Dav010 wrote: »

That is how markets work, they are not always fair. Rents were lower a few years ago when supply exceeded demand, now it is the reverse.

I’m conscious that I may be responding to a very young person here, but while you may have a strong social conscience, on this one it may be misplaced, it is not a criminal offence to charge more two years later for the same property as long as regs are followed.

Remember, society owes you nothing.

We're not selling underwear at your local street fair here.

This is keeping a roof over peoples heads.

It's one of the necessities of living.

If the powers that be advocate that mentality - then I refer back to my suggestion of shooting them out of a cannon.

Remember, society owes you nothing.

The f*** it doesn't.

That's why were called a civilization.

Theoretically - we're only as strong as our weakest link.

Housing is a right - at least when you'e not living in some despotic third world culdesac from hell.

pinksoir · 03-11-2019 10:07pm

Dav010 wrote: »

I really don’t think you do.

Yep, you're right - I don't understand the very simple concept of supply and demand affecting market rates. I'm clearly an idiot.

Of course it isn’t perfectly fine, the fact that there is high demand, low stock, rising rents yet significant reduction in Landlords staying in/entering the market means it is very far from fine.

Totally agree here. A systemic issue. And also an issue resulting from the lack of regulation of the free market in housing over the longer term with brain dead reactionary government policies trying to remedy it.

But that still does not mean that you and the op are right.

Not sure what you think I'm claiming other than my opinion that in no version of current reality should a place in Sligo cost more than a similar place in Berlin, and that it was one of the reasons I left Ireland. I'm wrong to think that? And I was wrong to leave based on that belief? I was wrong to maximise my income?

As I posted earlier, your higher net salary in Dublin may not necessarily equate to more money in your pocket to spend.

Definitely not, but what are the drains on your income, for the type of person who would rent that place, that would be higher in Dublin? Aside from rent. Which is the issue here. Pints?

And yes, having lived in London and New York in the nineties,

Sligo is comparable to London or New York, but not to Berlin.

I paid a lot more for a lot less than this particular apartment.

We should never strive for better. Everyone should suffer as I have.

If I needed a flat to rent and this was the best out there for my budget, damn right I’d rent it.

I'd leave the ****ing country.

03-11-2019 10:07pm

Jadiel Salty Bandana wrote: »

We're not selling underwear at your local street fair here.

This is keeping a roof over peoples heads.

It's one of the necessities of living.

If the powers that be advocate that mentality - then I refer back to my suggestion of shooting them out of a cannon.

The f*** it doesn't.

That's why were called a civilization.

Theoretically - we're only as strong as our weakest link.

Housing is a right - at least when you'e not living some despotic third world culdesac from hell.

Housing is not a right, and the sooner you understand that society owes you nothing, the better your life will be. You must earn the rights you believe you are entitled to. Uncivilised or not, my taxes should not be spent on you if you will not help yourself by earning a living and paying for a nice place to live.

To me you come across as someone who expects society to give you what you feel is your right, without you having to do anything for it. If you want a nice apartment, earn it.

03-11-2019 10:14pm

pinksoir wrote: »

Yep, you're right - I don't understand the very simple concept of supply and demand affecting market rates. I'm clearly an idiot.

Totally agree here. A systemic issue. And also an issue resulting from the lack of regulation of the free market in housing over the longer term with brain dead reactionary government policies trying to remedy it.

Not sure what you think I'm claiming other than my opinion that in no version of current reality should a place in Sligo cost more than a similar place in Berlin, and that it was one of the reasons I left Ireland. I'm wrong to think that? And I was wrong to leave based on that belief? I was wrong to maximise my income?

Definitely not, but what are the drains on your income, for the type of person who would rent that place, that would be higher in Dublin? Aside from rent. Which is the issue here. Pints?

Sligo is comparable to London or New York, but not to Berlin.

We should never strive for better. Everyone should suffer as I have.

I'd leave the ****ing country.

You say you understand supply and demand, yet you don’t understand why an apartment in a large town here where there is no supply and high demand, costs the same as in a big city. That is an oxymoron.

I understood why it cost a lot more for a lot less in New York and London, supply and demand. And in case you think it was primarily because they were in such amazing locations, so can assure you where I lived was not Manhattan nor Notting Hill. I didn’t suffer, I thoroughly enjoyed both places, I certainly strived for better though, as I suspect whoever rents that apartment in Sligo will.

You left, your choice.

Sleeper12 · 03-11-2019 10:15pm

Dav010 wrote:

I see, why did so many people lose their homes/investments if they were â€œlong term investmentsâ€? To say that increase in value is guaranteed and without risk is naive. Tenants do not buy properties for Landlords, the rent they pay is in return for service/accommodation provided. You do not know, nor indeed is it of any concern to you, what that rent is needed or used for by the LL.

There are a lot of foolish people. A lot of people thought that everyone should be a landlord and took out mortgages that they couldn't afford. Now I'm not saying that anyone knew that a word banking crisis would hit & things would get so bad but many bought property that they couldn't afford even if there wasn't a crash

bo0li5eumx12kp · 03-11-2019 10:15pm

ABEasy wrote: »

I'm sure I'll regret the effort but, just to put things in perspective and show the op what the landlord is making charging that rip off rent, below is a reasonable estimation of costs assuming cost of apt is 70k, rent is actually paid and the tenants don't trash the place.

Rent 680x12=8160
Less
PRTB=90
LPT=90
Insurance=300
Agent fees 11%=898
Management fees=1000
Mortgage Interest (70k@4.5%)=3150
Life cover on mortgage=360
Annual maintenance=650
Accountant to file tax return=360
Phone and travel costs=250

Leaves a profit of 1012, eat of tax at higher rate, 606.

So the landlord is left with a net profit of 606, for taking a massive risk in providing a place for you to live!!

Just to put it into perspective

Aw Christ.

Go back to playing videogames pal.

Gumbo · 03-11-2019 10:16pm

Technocentral wrote: »

Plus Germans aren't a bunch of greedy bastards like the Irish.

Didn’t they steal a lot of gold from a particular race?

lalababa · 03-11-2019 10:21pm

680 for a box apartment in Sligo town is a bit on the high side. But sure that's the craic now.

How are landlords getting away with this??

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