Catholic sacraments to become optional in schools?

buckwheat · 15-05-2019 10:18am #1

https://jrnl.ie/4635169

About time imo.

One eyed Jack · 15-05-2019 10:22am

buckwheat wrote: »

https://jrnl.ie/4635169

About time imo.

Thanks for the news update?

TheValeyard · 15-05-2019 10:23am

Think the Journal phrased it badly. They are already optional but prep for them may now take place outside of school hours instead of taking up class time.

kal7 · 15-05-2019 10:29am

I am delighted to hear parents and clergy view that schools should do less of the sacrament preparation.

Do it outside school, or at least outside school hours. Those that want it can go those that don't not affected.

Walter Bishop · 15-05-2019 10:32am

Good. This way those who are genuinely interested in religion can do the preparation on their own time, will be interesting to see what participation levels are like when it's not just done automatically by schools.

kowloon · 15-05-2019 10:35am

While it's great separating religion from regular education, it's going to suck for children with religious parents.

lawred2 · 15-05-2019 10:37am

kowloon wrote: »

While it's great separating religion from regular education, it's going to suck for children with religious parents.

Why? Is something preventing them from doing it themselves?

kowloon · 15-05-2019 10:41am

lawred2 wrote: »

Why? Is something preventing them from doing it themselves?

No, that's the problem, the poor kids will have to sit through a bunch of religion on top of school.

lawred2 · 15-05-2019 10:44am

kowloon wrote: »

No, that's the problem, the poor kids will have to sit through a bunch of religion on top of school.

Sorry misread you... Yeah it might suck for some kids alright. Won't make a jot of difference for the kids of the majority part time party time 'Catholic' parents.

One eyed Jack · 15-05-2019 10:46am

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

Think the Journal phrased it badly. They are already optional but prep for them may now take place outside of school hours instead of taking up class time.

I’d imagine what’s more likely to happen is it’ll be a matter to be decided upon by the Board of Management of the school, rather than the idea that some posters here appear to have taken from what is literally only a survey on the proposal as an indication that it will actually happen at all.

Your Face · 15-05-2019 11:57am

That article is a disaster.

TheValeyard · 15-05-2019 12:10pm

Your Face wrote: »

That article is a disaster.

Well......it is TheJournal.ie. They are probably the people who failed the Media Studies course.

EuKaryMe · 15-05-2019 12:11pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Thanks for the news update?

test

Mrs OBumble · 15-05-2019 7:45pm

kowloon wrote: »

No, that's the problem, the poor kids will have to sit through a bunch of religion on top of school.

Even worse for Polish kids: they'll have to go to Polish-language school on Saturday and Sunday school on Sunday!

Except ....

lawred2 wrote: »

Sorry misread you... Yeah it might suck for some kids alright. Won't make a jot of difference for the kids of the majority part time party time 'Catholic' parents.

Wrong: kids aren't stupid, they do the sacraments for the dosh. It won't bother 'em to have to give up an hour a week when they could be doing homework, in order to get €500+ in return.

Feisar · 15-05-2019 7:49pm

I've no interest in religion. Why would a Catholic school not force feed it shtick though?

Ubbquittious · 15-05-2019 7:49pm

I never had to do any sacrements when I was going to primary school. Got exempted. How is this anything new?

mad muffin · 15-05-2019 7:55pm

What mental retard parents wants to have this after school hours? There’s enough going on.

Soccer, GAA, swimming, beavers, and other after school activities. Definitely would not want this as well to be after school. I’m very happy that it’s done during school.

It doesn’t take up that much school time, and at 8 years old, it’s not like they are going to be missing too much.

lawred2 · 15-05-2019 8:14pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Wrong: kids aren't stupid, they do the sacraments for the dosh. It won't bother 'em to have to give up an hour a week when they could be doing homework, in order to get €500+ in return.

whose filling their kid's heads with such crap?

15-05-2019 8:46pm

It's always hypocritical when people give out about the Roman Church having the gall to teach their religion, or prepare children for their Roman Catholic sacraments, in schools which are the property of the same Roman Church.

The Irish state, and Irish citizens, are guests on the private property of a foreign business. They - the vast majority of schools in Ireland - are not owned by the Irish taxpayer, no matter how much funding the state gives to pay the current expenditure of these schools (the vast majority of such expenditure).

Until this situation is ended, beggars can't be choosers and the Roman Church should tell these people where to get off. Now, how many Irish people would be willing to pay billions of our taxes to buy that church out of its ownership of all these school properties? Or would you prefer the current rent-free situation and spend the billions elsewhere?

kowloon · 15-05-2019 8:47pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Wrong: kids aren't stupid, they do the sacraments for the dosh. It won't bother 'em to have to give up an hour a week when they could be doing homework, in order to get €500+ in return.

Wouldn't they still be getting the money if it was done during school hours? Nothing has changed for them other than extra hours lost not having fun.

freshpopcorn · 15-05-2019 8:51pm

The local parish around me tried to phase in a similar system a few years ago.
It involved the Communion being on Sunday instead of Saturday.
Most of the preparation being done outside of school.
Parents had to bring kids a few evenings or early to a few masses to prepare.(It wasn't a lot).
A massive fuss was kicked up by parents saying they were taking the faith out of school/etc. It was mostly caused by people who didn't believe or a la carte Catholics and some of those were always used always be on about separating church from state.
To parish caved in the end and moved the prep work back to the class room and a few other things.

Always number 1 · 15-05-2019 8:55pm

As someone who (will be lambasted for saying this) chose to enrol their child in a Catholic school (through the parish) it annoys me that my child may have to do Religious studies out of school.

While i do feel for anyone who had no choice but put their child in a Catholic school, surely they can be catered for with a different activity while others do Religious studies in the school environment

eviltwin · 15-05-2019 8:59pm

Can religion just not be moved to the last half hour of the day and those who aren't doing it just go home early?

freshpopcorn · 15-05-2019 8:59pm

Always number 1 wrote: »

As someone who (will be lambasted for saying this) chose to enrol their child in a Catholic school (through the parish) it annoys me that my child may have to do Religious studies out of school.

While i do feel for anyone who had no choice but put their child in a Catholic school, surely they can be catered for with a different activity while others do Religious studies in the school environment

In schools near me now.
Relgion is at last subject of the day. You can do it, get collected earlier or go into a room and do stuff with another teacher.

SEPT 23 1989 · 15-05-2019 9:01pm

It must be a total shock for parents who enrolled their children in a Catholic School to have that forced on them

One eyed Jack · 15-05-2019 9:12pm

eviltwin wrote: »

Can religion just not be moved to the last half hour of the day and those who aren't doing it just go home early?

That wouldn’t be feasible for a lot of parents who are already paying exorbitant after-school childminders fees or having to leave their work early to collect their children from school (there’s also the issue of once the children see one group of children leaving school early they’ll all want to leave early). There’s talks of extending the school day to accommodate working parents.

eviltwin · 15-05-2019 9:16pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

That wouldn’t be feasible for a lot of parents who are already paying exorbitant after-school childminders fees or having to leave their work early to collect their children from school (there’s also the issue of once the children see one group of children leaving school early they’ll all want to leave early). There’s talks of extending the school day to accommodate working parents.

Well it seems to work just fine in my school where there are children staying behind for other activities. If it can work for sport or music it can work for everything.

This is just another excuse. If those who want their child to do wherever want to get the school to assume responsibility then be willing to compromise

Fr_Dougal · 15-05-2019 9:19pm

Deleted User wrote: »

It's always hypocritical when people give out about the Roman Church having the gall to teach their religion, or prepare children for their Roman Catholic sacraments, in schools which are the property of the same Roman Church.

The Irish state, and Irish citizens, are guests on the private property of a foreign business. They - the vast majority of schools in Ireland - are not owned by the Irish taxpayer, no matter how much funding the state gives to pay the current expenditure of these schools (the vast majority of such expenditure).

Until this situation is ended, beggars can't be choosers and the Roman Church should tell these people where to get off. Now, how many Irish people would be willing to pay billions of our taxes to buy that church out of its ownership of all these school properties? Or would you prefer the current rent-free situation and spend the billions elsewhere?

You make some great points.

I’d be happy if the Church sorted out the payments that are due. https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/church-yet-to-pay-out-promised-millions-to-abuse-survivors-871806.html

ArnoldJRimmer · 15-05-2019 9:28pm

Deleted User wrote: »

It's always hypocritical when people give out about the Roman Church having the gall to teach their religion, or prepare children for their Roman Catholic sacraments, in schools which are the property of the same Roman Church.

The Irish state, and Irish citizens, are guests on the private property of a foreign business. They - the vast majority of schools in Ireland - are not owned by the Irish taxpayer, no matter how much funding the state gives to pay the current expenditure of these schools (the vast majority of such expenditure).

Until this situation is ended, beggars can't be choosers and the Roman Church should tell these people where to get off. Now, how many Irish people would be willing to pay billions of our taxes to buy that church out of its ownership of all these school properties? Or would you prefer the current rent-free situation and spend the billions elsewhere?

Do you reckon if we offer to clean up their grounds of all the child corpses, or maybe make those pesky abuse survivors keep quiet, they'd give us a discount?

Charles Ingles · 15-05-2019 9:33pm

Lets keep the sacraments holy for genuine Catholics .
I prayed the holy rosary with my children everyday until they left home,
I still pray it everyday, faith is a gift and should be treated as such.

One eyed Jack · 15-05-2019 9:34pm

eviltwin wrote: »

Well it seems to work just fine in my school where there are children staying behind for other activities. If it can work for sport or music it can work for everything.

This is just another excuse. If those who want their child to do wherever want to get the school to assume responsibility then be willing to compromise

I’ve no doubt it does, but what works in one school hardly sets the standards for what should work in all schools when every school community is different.

That’s why I said at the beginning of the thread that it would be most likely a decision made by the Board of Management of each school as opposed to the idea being rolled out to all schools on a blanket basis. It’s like freshpopcorn posted above too - schools in his area allow the parents the choice of collecting their children early or allowing their children to do other activities until the whole school finishes for the day.

In schools in my area, some schools allow some of the parents to take their children home on half days when religion is being taught, and I’ve met plenty of parents and people involved in education and employment who are of the opinion that the school day should be extended to accommodate working parents who have to either leave work early to collect their children from school or pay a childminder extra.

The OP appears to have gotten over-excited at the thoughts of a survey carried out in Dublin as though it could be applied to the rest of the country. In practice of course it’s unlikely even to apply in Dublin where we recently saw the parents and staff in a number of schools kick off because they wanted to maintain their school communities as they are. We’ve also seen parents go to the media when the local parish priest made not so thinly veiled threats against parents who’s children were receiving the sacraments.

People are often known to say one thing because it feels like the right thing to say, but when it comes down to it, they had no intention of compromising if it means they have to compromise anything.

OldMrBrennan83 · 15-05-2019 9:37pm

Yet another Ireland = bad. I hope all these twats learn some day what they're taking from us all in an effort to look modern on Twitter.

slavetothegrind · 15-05-2019 9:43pm

Charles Ingles wrote: »

Lets keep the sacraments holy for genuine Catholics .
I prayed the holy rosary with my children everyday until they left home,
I still pray it everyday, faith is a gift and should be treated as such.

feck off you arsonist!
Whole town up in smoke at the end!

ILoveYourVibes · 15-05-2019 9:46pm

buckwheat wrote: »

https://jrnl.ie/4635169

About time imo.

They already are in reality.

Charles Ingles · 15-05-2019 9:46pm

slavetothegrind wrote: »

feck off you arsonist!
Whole town up in smoke at the end!

I've no idea what you mean

ILoveYourVibes · 15-05-2019 9:48pm

Ubbquittious wrote: »

I never had to do any sacrements when I was going to primary school. Got exempted. How is this anything new?

Beats me.

Maybe some schools were difficult about it. I think that is the principle in that case.

I never did them or any religion.

slavetothegrind · 15-05-2019 9:49pm

Charles Ingles wrote: »

I've no idea what you mean

AH you choose to forget how you ended things!

The little house on the prairie ending?

Only having the craic with you ....:D

MrFresh · 15-05-2019 9:50pm

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

It must be a total shock for parents who enrolled their children in a Catholic School to have that forced on them

It couldn't be. It's been talked about for quite some time. State schools should be free from religious indoctrination. If you want a child to undergo religious teaching then private religious schools are for you.

Peatys · 15-05-2019 9:52pm

Mixed feelings on this.. obviously the whole thing is a load of nonsense. But still want the kids to make their communion and confirmation with their buddies and get a nice day out, few quid then forget all about it.

Feisar · 15-05-2019 9:59pm

MrFresh wrote: »

It couldn't be. It's been talked about for quite some time. State schools should be free from religious indoctrination. If you want a child to undergo religious teaching then private religious schools are for you.

Aye but the are not state schools

One eyed Jack · 15-05-2019 10:01pm

MrFresh wrote: »

It couldn't be. It's been talked about for quite some time. State schools should be free from religious indoctrination. If you want a child to undergo religious teaching then private religious schools are for you.

Most of the schools in Ireland are private religious schools owned by religious organisations who receive funding from Government to provide education as mandated by the national curriculum. Those private religious schools who choose to provide only religious education receive no funding from Government.

There are only a handful of State schools in the country of which the Minister for Education is the patron. They’re certainly not free of religious indoctrination as that appears to be the type of education the parents who enrol their children in those schools want for their children. It’s also worth noting too that parents are not obligated to enrol their children in a school which is in conflict with their values, beliefs or world views. The Irish Constitution is pretty specific about that, yet I constantly hear from parents that they are being “forced” to enrol their children in Catholic schools and being “forced” to have their children participate in the sacraments.

I’m attending my Godson’s FHC this weekend, both his parents are vehement anti-theists. I don’t bother asking what that’s about tbh.

SoundsRight · 15-05-2019 10:55pm

I think of you don't want your children learning the Catholic faith, maybe don't send them to a Catholic school.

eviltwin · 15-05-2019 10:58pm

SoundsRight wrote: »

I think of you don't want your children learning the Catholic faith, maybe don't send them to a Catholic school.

It's not that easy. 90% of schools are catholic.

lawred2 · 15-05-2019 11:04pm

Dick Swiveller II wrote: »

And?

And what?

Mrs OBumble · 15-05-2019 11:08pm

eviltwin wrote: »

It's not that easy. 90% of schools are catholic.

So if you want a different type, get off your butt and set it up.

Sardonicat · 15-05-2019 11:10pm

Peatys wrote: »

Mixed feelings on this.. obviously the whole thing is a load of nonsense. But still want the kids to make their communion and confirmation with their buddies and get a nice day out, few quid then forget all about it.

It's a load of nonsense but you want your kids to have a nice day out and make a few quid?

No wonder hypocrisy and two-facedness are national traits when this is how children are reared.

One eyed Jack · 15-05-2019 11:14pm

eviltwin wrote: »

It's not that easy. 90% of schools are catholic.

Now see that for me, is people making excuses. 90% of schools wouldn’t be Catholic now if people who were children 40 and 50, hell even 20 years ago if parents decided they weren’t going to enrol their children in Catholic schools - Government would have no choice but to fund the building of State schools and we wouldn’t be messing around with divestment now which in reality is going nowhere.

It’s a joke, and the Church Hierarchy know it’s a joke, and politicians and many stakeholders involved know it’s a joke, yet the idiots in the Irish Times and the Journal are practically creaming themselves every time they can publish a story about the supposed “decline” of the Catholic Church in Ireland, because they know it’ll be lapped up on social media. Meanwhile on the ground in reality, nothing actually changes.

Charles Ingles · 15-05-2019 11:15pm

We wouldn't have a school system in this country if it wasn't for the Catholic church in this country people seem to forget that.

Hotblack Desiato · 15-05-2019 11:17pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

So if you want a different type, get off your butt and set it up.

How do I set up a new school in an area where there is no population growth to sustain a new school?

One eyed Jack · 15-05-2019 11:17pm

Charles Ingles wrote: »

We wouldn't have a school system in this country if it wasn't for the Catholic church in this country people seem to forget that.

We would of course, it just wouldn’t be dominated by the Catholic Church.

Someone wasn’t paying attention in history class :rolleyes:

Hotblack Desiato · 15-05-2019 11:19pm

Charles Ingles wrote: »

We wouldn't have a school system in this country if it wasn't for the Catholic church in this country people seem to forget that.

That's also BS.

Why do you think they are called "National Schools"?

Catholic sacraments to become optional in schools?

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