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Pellet stoves

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    #32
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 32,987 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Probably right mad lad, and what I fear.

    Don't forget, I also drive a diesel as well as an eV


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    #33
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    NIMAN wrote: »
    Probably right mad lad, and what I fear.

    Don't forget, I also drive a diesel as well as an eV

    lol if you had your way you'd burn Coal in your car , back to steam power ! :D

    Time to invest in a Good Oil stove ! ;) actually, you'll find them really cheap 2nd hand.


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    #34
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 32,987 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Would people buy an oil stove if they have oil heating?


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    #35
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Absolutely, we have one even though it was installed by the previous owner it’s highly useful especially when it’s really cold for extra heat.

    + I use it when I’m off shift rather than have the central heating heating the whole house when I don’t need it.


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    #36
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    NIMAN wrote: »
    Would people buy an oil stove if they have oil heating?


    After considering it I wouldn't.

    Number of reasons
    1. I am trying to get away from oil
    2. Running the pipe from tank would be too difficult
    3. Lack of timer on unit
    4. Leaving it running constant is over kill

    As mentioned above I want something to run for an hour or 2 in morning and maybe in evening...someting that if I am away for weekend I can turn on remote .....I already have the oil heating on Climote so having the pellet stove on something similar would be perfect....

    Pellet storage is not an issue and I dont mind filling/cleaning as it would be a lot better than the current multifuel stove I have in place now


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    #37
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Oil is convenient and it's quiet clean compared to pellets in a modern 90% efficient condenser boiler.

    pellet stoves are a cause for concern and wood stoves as they emit unregulated uncontrolled emissions which are dangerous. In the country it's not as much of an issue but the PM still travels.

    So "getting away from oil" is fine but going to pellets are not a proper solution if it's to benefit the environment.

    Wanting a pellet stove and liking the look of them and their convenience are a completely different matter.

    Too many trees have to be felled for pellets and some come from Canada and shipped on dirty oil burning ships. Ireland has very little hard wood forest compared to the rest of Europe even the U.K and we only plant pine dirt and it's only for industry and not to benefit nature or the landscape and I do not approve of this on such as scale as we do it in Ireland.

    Getting a feed to an Oil stove could be an issue depending on the location to the tank, however another small tank can be installed closer to the stove.

    NIMAN would find going from filthy coal to an Oil stove much more convenient, no ashes , no soot, no carrying bags of coal or having to drag coal in to the house, and can leave it on as much as it's needed without having to refuel and it can be left on all night down low and all it needs is a wipe of the glass and turning of de-coke thing and that's it.

    Oil stoves don't have to be left on all the time but it is an option.

    I'd love to be off fossil fuels but it's not going to happen, the house would have to be gutted and air tight and well insulated , then I'd install a heat pump.

    Pellets and Oil stoves are really useful either way , there are advantages and disadvantages with both.


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    #38
    beveragelady
    Registered Users Posts: 854 ✭✭✭beveragelady


    Hi, I stumbled upon this thread and I thought I'd take the opportunity to ask a couple of questions.
    I bought a house with a Baxi Multiheat wood pellet boiler. The house is well insulated and very small. Downstairs has underfloor heating and there is usually only one radiator on upstairs. When the central heating is on the house is toasty and there is endless hot water. However, I am spending a bleeding fortune on pellets. I get two deliveries a year, €800 each, then I turn the heating off from mid-April until it gets properly cold. There's a solid fuel stove in the kitchen and I can keep the house comfortable by lighting that. I'm spending way more on pellets than I did when I lived in an oil-heated 19th century castle gatelodge with single glazing and no real insulation. I have no idea what I'm doing so I'm afraid to twiddle with the settings on the boiler. Turning the thermostat in the house down doesn't seem to matter, the Baxi seems to use the same amount of fuel. It seems impossible to find somebody who does know what they're doing. I need somebody to tell me (A) is the boiler right for the house. (B) are the settings correct or (C) is there some other problem.
    I'd be grateful if somebody could suggest possible avenues to explore, or even better, an expert to consult in the mid-west.


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    #39
    Barr
    Registered Users Posts: 6,991 ✭✭✭Barr


    Some interesting reading in this thread.

    A lot of comparisons between pellets and oil.

    How would people rate them against the standard wood /multifuel stoves?

    As a fuel , are pellets cheaper to buy rather than wood?


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    #40
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Sorry to pull up old thread....as the winter is about to set in I am looking at this again

    I am intrigued by the comment above about ordering from Italy as a very cheap price...

    I found this website; http://www.italianstoves.com

    It doesn't seem to be that massively cheap compared to Ireland? anyone find an equivalent?


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    #41
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Has anyone changed anything with their heating since this discussion ? we haven't.

    The main issue is eliminating con men.

    2nd issue is finding reliable installers.

    3 rd issue is getting people to come out and give quotes, ( I'll be out Monday ) don't arrive, ( I'll be out Thursday ) don't arrive.

    4th issue, is if they start a job will they work on it all day every day until it's finished or will they do an hour one day and two next week ?

    It's a damn difficult country to get work done !

    I've since being toying with the idea of heat pump using the well supposed to give 6 Kw out with 1 Kw in, that's some efficiency but again, contacted twice and no one called to arrange to come to the house.

    Installing solar PV later on would greatly help offset the cost of running the HP especially if a feed in tariff becomes available, excess in Summer bought back for winter to run the HP.

    Anyway we're still at square 1 and on out 2nd tank of oil since about October. Oil now is 700 per 1000 Litres.

    If you add it up , Oil, Gas, pellets, wood, Coal are all around the same to run if efficiencies are high then all are around the same cost for the same efficiency of your heating, boiler, stove etc for instance, an open coal fire is naturally going to be more expensive to run than a pellet stove but install a much more efficient stove and the cost difference becomes much less.

    SAEI have a handy fuel comparison chart.

    Particularly interesting is that night rate electricity is also comparable to these liquid or solid fuels and could be convenient with storage heaters which are much more controllable today. I have night rate electricity for charging the car so 1 or 2 storage heaters could be a good alternative for me for 1 or two rooms if it;s going to cost the same as oil or gas then probably not, again , if we only had some kind of feed-in-tariff system where we get paid for excess to the grid we could install solar PV and that would help offset the cost of heating and normal electricity bills.


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    #42
    beveragelady
    Registered Users Posts: 854 ✭✭✭beveragelady


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Has anyone changed anything with their heating since this discussion ? we haven't.

    https://www.woodco-energy.com/products/28kw-s-model-external-pellet-boiler/
    I got rid of the Baxi and had one of these installed, only up and running since yesterday. Woodco were doing a scrappage deal and the auger was starting to go on the Baxi so I bit the bullet. It's a more complex animal than the very mechanical Baxi, I'm still not sure what I'm at with it. I had a screw installed too, so I don't have to fill the hopper with a bucket any more.
    The company seem fine to deal with but I suppose I won't really know until there's a problem. I'm optimistic that this will save me money on pellets, it seems to be a very efficient boiler.


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    #43
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    External , interesting, any I saw before had to be inside shed or something.

    Which Kw did you get ?

    How much for installation ?

    Don't think mine would be straight forward because the rads and internal plumbing needs upgrading + electronic controls.

    My other issue is that I don't have much storage space for pellets, do you get them in bulk or bags ?

    Be interesting to know if you get bags how much you get away with.

    We could replace the oil boiler with this and keep the tank for the kitchen oil stove.

    Overall I think the cost difference between oil and pellets might not be much, gas has rental and all that that oil doesn't.


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    #44
    beveragelady
    Registered Users Posts: 854 ✭✭✭beveragelady


    Deleted User wrote: »
    External , interesting, any I saw before had to be inside shed or something.

    Which Kw did you get ?

    How much for installation ?

    Don't think mine would be straight forward because the rads and internal plumbing needs upgrading + electronic controls.

    My other issue is that I don't have much storage space for pellets, do you get them in bulk or bags ?

    Be interesting to know if you get bags how much you get away with.

    We could replace the oil boiler with this and keep the tank for the kitchen oil stove.

    Overall I think the cost difference between oil and pellets might not be much, gas has rental and all that that oil doesn't.

    Mine is 28kw. My house is small and has underfloor heating. The boiler is outside but it's in what used to be a hayshed so it's not completely exposed. There was a silo here when I bought the house so I get bulk delivery. The old boiler got through pellets at a ferocious rate so getting bags would not have been practical. I don't know yet what this one is like.
    It's invoiced as "supply and fit" so I don't know what the installation cost is. The whole thing was €3437.89 plus €464.11 VAT.

    I like the pellets because they're clean and safe. The boiler is about 20 feet from a river and I like not having to worry about polluting due to spills or leaks.


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    #45
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    beveragelady wrote: »
    Mine is 28kw. My house is small and has underfloor heating. The boiler is outside but it's in what used to be a hayshed so it's not completely exposed. There was a silo here when I bought the house so I get bulk delivery. The old boiler got through pellets at a ferocious rate so getting bags would not have been practical. I don't know yet what this one is like.
    It's invoiced as "supply and fit" so I don't know what the installation cost is. The whole thing was €3437.89 plus €464.11 VAT.

    I like the pellets because they're clean and safe. The boiler is about 20 feet from a river and I like not having to worry about polluting due to spills or leaks.

    My Oil tank is a lot closer to a stream !

    So was € 3437 inc fitting ?

    Yes we're a bit snookered because while the oil boiler might be efficient enough the rest of the plumbing is not and is old.

    Keep this thread updated asap, I am interested, would be nice to get off oil all the same even if I keep some for the kitchen stove for now.


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    #46
    beveragelady
    Registered Users Posts: 854 ✭✭✭beveragelady


    Deleted User wrote: »
    My Oil tank is a lot closer to a stream !

    So was € 3437 inc fitting ?

    Yes we're a bit snookered because while the oil boiler might be efficient enough the rest of the plumbing is not and is old.

    Keep this thread updated asap, I am interested, would be nice to get off oil all the same even if I keep some for the kitchen stove for now.

    The €3437 includes fitting. That was the scrappage deal they offered if you had a ten-year-old WP boiler.
    The manual is pretty poor. That's why I'm not in bed. I'm not certain if it's running according to the timer in the house or according to its own notions. None of the words in the manual are the words that appear in the settings display. It definitely says I should run in on a timer but it doesn't say how to do that and it's not common-sense obvious on the display. It's possible I'm missing something, I'll have another serious look at it in the morning.


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    #47
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    beveragelady wrote: »
    The €3437 includes fitting. That was the scrappage deal they offered if you had a ten-year-old WP boiler.
    The manual is pretty poor. That's why I'm not in bed. I'm not certain if it's running according to the timer in the house or according to its own notions. None of the words in the manual are the words that appear in the settings display. It definitely says I should run in on a timer but it doesn't say how to do that and it's not common-sense obvious on the display. It's possible I'm missing something, I'll have another serious look at it in the morning.

    Yeah good luck with that ! :)


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    #48
    GaGa21
    Registered Users Posts: 652 ✭✭✭GaGa21


    We are looking at the MCZ wood pellet boiler. We were looking at the 24kw but were told 16kw is size enough for our number of rads. We are looking at the Club model which is also fully self clean.
    I am a bit wary as I've heard complaints of other brand boilers being noisy.
    Have been told this brand is the best and only one supplier in Ireland.
    But I'm aware of it maybe being just a sales pitch too.
    Anyone have feedback on this make and model?


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    #49
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    My plan long term is to remove the large solid fuel stove in the house, the connection for it into the heating just connect them into a A2W heat pump.....I just need to find the money :-)

    I could get the A2W fairly cheap but the install is huge money!!


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    #50
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    @beveragelady , how are you getting on with the heating ?


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    #51
    beveragelady
    Registered Users Posts: 854 ✭✭✭beveragelady


    Deleted User wrote: »
    @beveragelady , how are you getting on with the heating ?

    I messed about with it for a bit and I think it's doing what I want it to do now. I really don't now for certain. I've searched online but I can't find any other version of the instructions. There are a few vital things missing, such as the settings, what the icons on the display mean, and things like running the auger to fill the chamber. I'll probably end up ringing the chap who sold it to me and asking some stupid questions.

    It's hard to tell for certain but I seem to be getting through a fraction of the pellets compared to the old boiler. I won't really know until I get a delivery and I see how long 3 tonnes last me. The Baxi would burn about 4 buckets of pellets a day, My guess is that this one is using less than half of that, I think probably a lot less. I have to bear in mind though that it's (supposed to be) June so it's bound to be less pellet-hungry.


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    #52
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    beveragelady wrote: »
    I messed about with it for a bit and I think it's doing what I want it to do now. I really don't now for certain. I've searched online but I can't find any other version of the instructions. There are a few vital things missing, such as the settings, what the icons on the display mean, and things like running the auger to fill the chamber. I'll probably end up ringing the chap who sold it to me and asking some stupid questions.

    It's hard to tell for certain but I seem to be getting through a fraction of the pellets compared to the old boiler. I won't really know until I get a delivery and I see how long 3 tonnes last me. The Baxi would burn about 4 buckets of pellets a day, My guess is that this one is using less than half of that, I think probably a lot less. I have to bear in mind though that it's (supposed to be) June so it's bound to be less pellet-hungry.

    Shouldn't the installer have gone through all the settings with you ?

    Definitely call them up. You paid good money.

    I didn't realise your Baxi was a pellet boiler. :)


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    #53
    beveragelady
    Registered Users Posts: 854 ✭✭✭beveragelady


    The last bit of installation happened just as I was leaving for work. In fairness he tried to explain things but I only gave him time to talk me through emptying the ashpan. I foolishly assumed I'd be able to figure it out from the instruction manual.

    The old boiler was a Baxi multiheat. Pleasingly mechanical to deal with. A pain in the arse to clean, impossible to find somebody to service it, and probably wildly inefficient. It was here when I bought the house so it was probably about 15 years old. The instructions were mostly in Dutch with hand-written English annotations.


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    #54
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    beveragelady wrote: »
    The last bit of installation happened just as I was leaving for work. In fairness he tried to explain things but I only gave him time to talk me through emptying the ashpan. I foolishly assumed I'd be able to figure it out from the instruction manual.

    The old boiler was a Baxi multiheat. Pleasingly mechanical to deal with. A pain in the arse to clean, impossible to find somebody to service it, and probably wildly inefficient. It was here when I bought the house so it was probably about 15 years old. The instructions were mostly in Dutch with hand-written English annotations.

    No harm to contact the installer again, I'm sure he won't mind calling around for a cuppa. :)


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    #55
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 32,987 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Only change for me since I last posted was that we pulled out the multi-fuel stove from the living room, as it was just too dirty and the room was getting a revamp.

    We decided to just go with oil for the last winter, although the OH is still keen to get a slack burner in the garage. I am not so keen, as I think there is no future in coal, and to invest €5k in it now is a bad idea (and yes I still drive an EV).

    We found the oil more expensive, as we used to burn a combination of local turf and coal. In fact probably a good bit more expensive, but you have to accept this if you want to get away from dragging big buckets of coals and turf from your garage to your living room constantly. The ambient heat is gone now, and replaced with a bit of "I'm cold, stick on the heating" or "jez I'm roasted, turn off that heating for a while". Plus obviously the living room misses that direct heat from the stove itself.

    Still undecided about what the future holds. I think it'll be oil again next winter, but not really sure what my options are if a slack boiler is excluded. I asked about a A2W heat pump, and it does appear to be an option but an expensive one.


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    #56
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    NIMAN wrote: »
    Only change for me since I last posted was that we pulled out the multi-fuel stove from the living room, as it was just too dirty and the room was getting a revamp.

    We decided to just go with oil for the last winter, although the OH is still keen to get a slack burner in the garage. I am not so keen, as I think there is no future in coal, and to invest €5k in it now is a bad idea (and yes I still drive an EV).

    We found the oil more expensive, as we used to burn a combination of local turf and coal. In fact probably a good bit more expensive, but you have to accept this if you want to get away from dragging big buckets of coals and turf from your garage to your living room constantly. The ambient heat is gone now, and replaced with a bit of "I'm cold, stick on the heating" or "jez I'm roasted, turn off that heating for a while". Plus obviously the living room misses that direct heat from the stove itself.

    Still undecided about what the future holds. I think it'll be oil again next winter, but not really sure what my options are if a slack boiler is excluded. I asked about a A2W heat pump, and it does appear to be an option but an expensive one.

    No definitely stay away from coal if you can, unless it's smokeless which from talking to people who burn it says it's far better than the likes of Polish coal.

    But the work involved is a lot, Chimney cleaning, soot ash dust in the house.

    A2W is expensive but you can get night rate electricity and for 12 hrs per day it will run at half the cost. Worth taking a look.

    I'm getting a company form Galway to come out and take a look at our setup , it will be water to water, the most efficient, they can use the well depending on water quality. That would be amazing but depending on cost whether we go down that road or not.

    Our existing heating needs a complete revamp which is going to add significant cost.

    I'm astonished that coal is much cheaper than bottled gas which is the cleanest source of fossil fuel, bottled gas can cost up to 30 C/Kwh, coal 5-8 cent and oil 6-8 cent. Of course this also depends on the efficiency of how you burn it.


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    #57
    Jimmywangyang
    Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭Jimmywangyang


    Hi @beveragelady,
    Just wondering how you are getting on with the boiler at this point?

    More or less settled on the pellet boiler i want, just looking for some more feedback :)


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    #58
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Jimmywangyang wrote: »
    Hi @beveragelady,
    Just wondering how you are getting on with the boiler at this point?

    More or less settled on the pellet boiler i want, just looking for some more feedback :)


    Feedback on pellet stoves is hard to find. I am looking to buy the room heater, about to pull the trigger on it but was trying to find anyone with them.....very very hard


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    #59
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Feedback on pellet stoves is hard to find. I am looking to buy the room heater, about to pull the trigger on it but was trying to find anyone with them.....very very hard

    I want to change the open gas fire to Pellet, free standing or insert not sure yet, I'd love to open the chimney.

    However, and I'm thinking out loud here, with the recent bad press about pellet stoves in Europe especially in larger towns and cities, pellet stoves are , and for good reason, seen less and less environmentally friendly both due to the emissions and where the pellets come from so, I am wondering how long will it be before restrictions are placed on these pellets and stoves also ? A modern Diesel is said to emit less PM 2.5 than pellet stoves, diesels have emissions control systems , pellet stoves do not.

    Anyway, I live in the sticks so it's not a big deal for me but I do wonder what the future holds for pellets and pellet stoves ?

    I read where pm 2.5 emitted from Pellet burning can be up to 15 times higher than from a modern condenser oil boiler, imagine that ?


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    #60
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I want to change the open gas fire to Pellet, free standing or insert not sure yet, I'd love to open the chimney.

    However, and I'm thinking out loud here, with the recent bad press about pellet stoves in Europe especially in larger towns and cities, pellet stoves are , and for good reason, seen less and less environmentally friendly both due to the emissions and where the pellets come from so, I am wondering how long will it be before restrictions are placed on these pellets and stoves also ? A modern Diesel is said to emit less PM 2.5 than pellet stoves, diesels have emissions control systems , pellet stoves do not.

    Anyway, I live in the sticks so it's not a big deal for me but I do wonder what the future holds for pellets and pellet stoves ?

    I read where pm 2.5 emitted from Pellet burning can be up to 15 times higher than from a modern condenser oil boiler, imagine that ?


    We have a problem room. Either a stove or take off the roof:eek:


    So a stove is perfect, at the moment wood burning but no timer etc. So best option is pellet stove. If we got 10 years out of it then I could decide what to do with the room itself.....


    Its a beautiful room so no point wrecking it....Im kind of in the sticks as well so I doubt they will be worried about me


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    #61
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    We have a problem room. Either a stove or take off the roof:eek:


    So a stove is perfect, at the moment wood burning but no timer etc. So best option is pellet stove. If we got 10 years out of it then I could decide what to do with the room itself.....


    Its a beautiful room so no point wrecking it....Im kind of in the sticks as well so I doubt they will be worried about me


    You have a problem room like conservatory ? same here and attached to the kitchen / dining area so it can make it quite chilly or we close the doors and it gets freezing altogether but have the oil stove which is dead handy one of the best things ever. Effel , I believe they are Nestor Martin today.

    I'd be looking for one for the sitting room when I don't want or need to heat the whole house, can have the stove on low in the kitchen/dining and use the pellet stove.

    I might get the pellets in bags, already get cat little pellets so won't be much of a big deal lol.

    We are still deciding whether to make the conservatory a proper room it's nice in Spring/Summer but a waste in Winter which is much longer lol.


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