Pellet stoves

27-05-2020 7:55pm

Sophir wrote: »

Thanks . I don't think I can really add more insulation. Insulated slabs on inside walls, artic well insulated, walls were pumped but a while ago. It look like oil is the way to go. Solid fuel is cheap. Cost me only 400 euro a year, but lots of disadvantages with it. Can u regulate the room temp with oil or every time u turn on the rads they are piping hot? I know smb who hears the house with wood pellet boiler stove and delighted with it. I have a shed to store them in. But again dragging them in and out again the same as turf at the moment....the only good thing about the pellet stove is that u can turn it on and off any time, set the temp. Hard to make a decision.

I wouldn't rule out HP, if you're in the sticks and have a well then a water to water HP is the way to go but you'd need the company to come out and inspect the house first, you would need a night meter to to avail of the cheap electricity at night. Think about if the energy companies are made to pay consumers for energy to the grid that this could greatly help run the heat pump, depending on how much you would get paid for the energy to the grid + how much they charge to buy back.

Oil is install and forget, yes you can control the heating in each room with TRVs which are valves on the rads that you set to 1-5 usually , usually 3 is fine for living area and 2-2.5 for bedrooms, they're not perfect but probably the best you'll get coming from solid fuel.

Either way it's a lot better way to heat the house if you ask me, coming on in the morning when you need it and evening and off when you don't want it, there's no way I'd have solid fuel as the main heating these days with so much other options.

Pellet stove, I would be afraid if it broke it would take days for someone to come out and fix it, or ages to get parts and how reliable it would be with all the moving parts. As a space heater for the sitting room yes, but I don't think I would do it for main heating.

Sophir · 27-05-2020 9:37pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I wouldn't rule out HP, if you're in the sticks and have a well then a water to water HP is the way to go but you'd need the company to come out and inspect the house first, you would need a night meter to to avail of the cheap electricity at night. Think about if the energy companies are made to pay consumers for energy to the grid that this could greatly help run the heat pump, depending on how much you would get paid for the energy to the grid + how much they charge to buy back.

Oil is install and forget, yes you can control the heating in each room with TRVs which are valves on the rads that you set to 1-5 usually , usually 3 is fine for living area and 2-2.5 for bedrooms, they're not perfect but probably the best you'll get coming from solid fuel.

Either way it's a lot better way to heat the house if you ask me, coming on in the morning when you need it and evening and off when you don't want it, there's no way I'd have solid fuel as the main heating these days with so much other options.

Pellet stove, I would be afraid if it broke it would take days for someone to come out and fix it, or ages to get parts and how reliable it would be with all the moving parts. As a space heater for the sitting room yes, but I don't think I would do it for main heating.[/quote

Thanks a lot for ur advice. I was told today in order to apply for a grant for HP I need to get a guy from SEAI to access the house and it will cost 400-600 euro. It's a lot of work to organise it and get it installed. But who will give a guarantee it will be cheaper to run than oil for example? It's hard to know especially for an old house. Probably less hassle to get oil in.

27-05-2020 10:03pm

Sophir wrote: »

[

Thanks a lot for ur advice. I was told today in order to apply for a grant for HP I need to get a guy from SEAI to access the house and it will cost 400-600 euro. It's a lot of work to organise it and get it installed. But who will give a guarantee it will be cheaper to run than oil for example? It's hard to know especially for an old house. Probably less hassle to get oil in.

No harm getting someone out to have a look and give you their opinion on hp, This company that installs the water to water is based in Galway, forget the name now, and the name of the company that makes the HP is Heliotherm, one of the best if not the best manufacturer of heat pumps.

Regarding the BER, I think you can claim part of this with the grant but not sure.

I might re-investigate the HP because we really need to update the heating and I would like to get away from Oil as cheap as oil is atm it probably won't stay that way for more than a year, who knows ?

The issue is for me getting the sales man out from Galway, I had to call them several times and still nothing so I just gave up, it's difficult getting things done in Ireland and especially, done properly.

Sophir · 27-05-2020 10:46pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No harm getting someone out to have a look and give you their opinion on hp, This company that installs the water to water is based in Galway, forget the name now, and the name of the company that makes the HP is Heliotherm, one of the best if not the best manufacturer of heat pumps.

Regarding the BER, I think you can claim part of this with the grant but not sure.

I might re-investigate the HP because we really need to update the heating and I would like to get away from Oil as cheap as oil is atm it probably won't stay that way for more than a year, who knows ?

The issue is for me getting the sales man out from Galway, I had to call them several times and still nothing so I just gave up, it's difficult getting things done in Ireland and especially, done properly.

I just googled and rang absolute clever heating ltd, they rang me back very quick, asked for pictures of hot press, plumbing ect and said that can give a quote after that but they r based in Waterford. Do u know smb in Galway who install HP? Can u tell me the advantages of HP Vs oil please? 35 degree of rads doesn't sound very appealing to me. The guy said today no need to change the existing ones...

Sophir · 27-05-2020 10:46pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No harm getting someone out to have a look and give you their opinion on hp, This company that installs the water to water is based in Galway, forget the name now, and the name of the company that makes the HP is Heliotherm, one of the best if not the best manufacturer of heat pumps.

Regarding the BER, I think you can claim part of this with the grant but not sure.

I might re-investigate the HP because we really need to update the heating and I would like to get away from Oil as cheap as oil is atm it probably won't stay that way for more than a year, who knows ?

The issue is for me getting the sales man out from Galway, I had to call them several times and still nothing so I just gave up, it's difficult getting things done in Ireland and especially, done properly.

I just googled and rang absolute clever heating ltd, they rang me back very quick, asked for pictures of hot press, plumbing ect and said that can give a quote after that but they r based in Waterford. Do u know smb in Galway who install HP? Can u tell me the advantages of HP Vs oil please? 35 degree of rads doesn't sound very appealing to me. The guy said today no need to change the existing ones...

Shefwedfan · 28-05-2020 9:20am

Sophir wrote: »

I just googled and rang absolute clever heating ltd, they rang me back very quick, asked for pictures of hot press, plumbing ect and said that can give a quote after that but they r based in Waterford. Do u know smb in Galway who install HP? Can u tell me the advantages of HP Vs oil please? 35 degree of rads doesn't sound very appealing to me. The guy said today no need to change the existing ones...

You have two options
1. Replace all your rads with aluminum ones. Expensive
2. Ask them about a high temp heat pump/hybrid

https://airflow.ie/high-temperature-heat-pumps/

You also have hybrid systems
https://www.daikin.ie/en_gb/product-group/hybrid-heat-pump.html

This one is gas but you have oil as well.

Most of these companies will think you know nothing and come in and tell you a load of BS.....you need to nail them on what you want otherwise they will quote to install an entire new heating system

28-05-2020 7:58pm

Sophir wrote: »

I just googled and rang absolute clever heating ltd, they rang me back very quick, asked for pictures of hot press, plumbing ect and said that can give a quote after that but they r based in Waterford. Do u know smb in Galway who install HP? Can u tell me the advantages of HP Vs oil please? 35 degree of rads doesn't sound very appealing to me. The guy said today no need to change the existing ones...

I never heard of them.

35 degrees is not a lot but they can go higher.

Advantage of oil vs HP ? no need for oil/solid fuel, gas etc, running costs might not be lower to could be lower or could be higher depending on install, electricity cost, dual meter would be essential to avail of the cheap night rate.

+ with HP there is the strong possibility a feed-in-tariff might be offered which would allow anyone with Solar pv or wind turbine to get paid for electricity sent to the grid and buy back when needed. So the potential to install solar PV if this happens is huge, it could greatly reduce energy costs depending on how much solar you can install.

28-05-2020 8:40pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

https://airflow.ie/high-temperature-heat-pumps/

Very interesting never heard of this, might take up a lot of space though, I wonder what the COP is ?

Indeed, getting companies to do things right and be honest is a challenge. Not to mention not ripping you off especially if they're the only companies in Ireland with this type of HP.

It would be interesting to start a new thread on this HP.

Shefwedfan · 28-05-2020 9:05pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Very interesting never heard of this, might take up a lot of space though, I wonder what the COP is ?

Indeed, getting companies to do things right and be honest is a challenge. Not to mention not ripping you off especially if they're the only companies in Ireland with this type of HP.

It would be interesting to start a new thread on this HP.

Mitsubishi done one and I got quote for them, would need to go back and look but they seemed decent money. The supplier in Dublin sizes the system and all, I just needed to get installer but they wanted crazy money and I switched to PV instead

Will find info and post

Shefwedfan · 28-05-2020 9:30pm

No wonder I couldnt find the Mitsubishi one.......because it was Panasonic :-)

https://www.heatmerchants.ie/panasonic-high-temperature-12kw-monobloc-heat-pump-g-generation-u72265

You also have this system: https://www.nibe.eu/en-eu/products/heat-pumps/air-water-heat-pumps/NIBE-F2040-_-228

That will sit along with your boiler, then you can add in an electric top up to get rid of oil altogether.

Interesting idea if I could have got for decent money

Shefwedfan · 28-05-2020 9:36pm

I have no idea what COP is by the way :-)

28-05-2020 9:51pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

https://airflow.ie/high-temperature-heat-pumps/

Cop of 3.08 isn't fantastic is it ? probably be higher if you can get away with 60 or 70 deg if you have more rads in the rooms. Might give higher COP.

Airflow claim up to 60% reduction in running costs. with 3.08 Cop ?

So if you get the 16 Kw

https://www.pmcoppack.com/products/any/daikin-altherma-16kw-single-phase-high-temperature-split-heat-pump-/0012919.html

That would need 5.19 Kw to get 16 out if my calculations are correct ? and that might depend on ambient temp too, they claim down to -25 deg C but how am I or anyone to know what the cop is at any temp ?

5.19 Kw running how many hrs ? though if it heats to 80 deg C you could run it the same as an oil boiler for the same time but this would be on day rate if home most of the day and half that if running on night rate a few hrs.

But if running like say I would for maybe 3 hrs in the morning from 6-9 am cost @7.4 C/Kwh

5.19 Kw x 7.4 cent/Kwh = 38.40 cent per hour x3 hrs = 1 Euro 15 cent

on day rate for say 6 hrs @17.4 cent/ Kwh = 4 .51

So If all this is right then for me = 5.66 per day x 28 days a month or 158,48 PM.

Heat, say October to May ? x 8 months = 1,264 a year over the heating season, now, this is assuming continuous operation of the heat pump not allowing cutting in and out.

If heating to 80 deg C then I assume it's going to be cutting in and out especially as rooms get to temp and trv's switch off ?

If it cuts in and out then this cost would be lower, heating to maybe 60 Deg C could see a good decrease in running costs.

But what would the life of the system be, problems ? expense ?

it costs us around 1500+ a year in Oil anyway over 2 tanks, ok maybe not this year considering Oil but it will still be around 1000-1200.

+ if we get a FIT then solar PV could knock a few hundred a year off the leccy bill.

I might have to upgrade the leccy supply esp if upgrading to 7.4 Kw charging.

28-05-2020 9:54pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I have no idea what COP is by the way :-)

Cop is measured like this

Cop of 3 means for every 1 KW in 3 out

cop of 5 means 1 Kwh in 5 out.

This is where I got 5 Kw odd to run the hp

12 Kw output 3. something cop, I just divided the cop into the output and got 5.

Sophir · 28-05-2020 9:54pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

You have two options
1. Replace all your rads with aluminum ones. Expensive
2. Ask them about a high temp heat pump/hybrid

https://airflow.ie/high-temperature-heat-pumps/

You also have hybrid systems
https://www.daikin.ie/en_gb/product-group/hybrid-heat-pump.html

This one is gas but you have oil as well.

Most of these companies will think you know nothing and come in and tell you a load of BS.....you need to nail them on what you want otherwise they will quote to install an entire new heating system[/quote

Replacing rads is definitely not an option.
The guy did actually mentioned the hybrid system which is around 5-7 k. Does it take space inside as well? I'm limited with space unfortunately.

Oh, lads, i really don't know what to do as I don't have a clue about HP, afraid to be fooled...I will ask for the quote and see. Do u think I should bury the oil option? It's more straghtforward than HP though.

Sophir · 28-05-2020 9:54pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

You have two options
1. Replace all your rads with aluminum ones. Expensive
2. Ask them about a high temp heat pump/hybrid

https://airflow.ie/high-temperature-heat-pumps/

You also have hybrid systems
https://www.daikin.ie/en_gb/product-group/hybrid-heat-pump.html

This one is gas but you have oil as well.

Most of these companies will think you know nothing and come in and tell you a load of BS.....you need to nail them on what you want otherwise they will quote to install an entire new heating system[/quote

Replacing rads is definitely not an option.
The guy did actually mentioned the hybrid system which is around 5-7 k. Does it take space inside as well? I'm limited with space unfortunately.

Oh, lads, i really don't know what to do as I don't have a clue about HP, afraid to be fooled...I will ask for the quote and see. Do u think I should bury the oil option? It's more straghtforward than HP though.

28-05-2020 10:00pm

Sophir wrote: »

Oh, lads, i really don't know what to do as I don't have a clue about HP, afraid to be fooled...I will ask for the quote and see. Do u think I should bury the oil option? It's more straghtforward than HP though.

I'm in the same boat the last 2 years, need to upgrade heat not much options, don't want to be conned, ripped off, don't want cowboys etc.

Which pump is best etc etc. It's a head wrecking to be honest.

I think HP is the way to go but depends a lot on cost.

Sophir · 28-05-2020 10:00pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

You have two options
1. Replace all your rads with aluminum ones. Expensive
2. Ask them about a high temp heat pump/hybrid

https://airflow.ie/high-temperature-heat-pumps/

You also have hybrid systems
https://www.daikin.ie/en_gb/product-group/hybrid-heat-pump.html

This one is gas but you have oil as well.

Most of these companies will think you know nothing and come in and tell you a load of BS.....you need to nail them on what you want otherwise they will quote to install an entire new heating system[/quote

Replacing rads is definitely not an option.
The guy did actually mentioned the hybrid system which is around 5-7 k. Does it take space inside as well? I'm limited with space unfortunately.

Oh, lads, i really don't know what to do as I don't have a clue about HP, afraid to be fooled...I will ask for the quote and see. Do u think I should bury the oil option? It's more straghtforward than HP though.

Shefwedfan · 28-05-2020 10:36pm

Sophir wrote: »

Replacing rads is definitely not an option.
The guy did actually mentioned the hybrid system which is around 5-7 k. Does it take space inside as well? I'm limited with space unfortunately.

Oh, lads, i really don't know what to do as I don't have a clue about HP, afraid to be fooled...I will ask for the quote and see. Do u think I should bury the oil option? It's more straghtforward than HP though.

Buy a second hand oil boiler: https://www.donedeal.ie/heating-for-sale/firebird-120-oil-burner/24914861?campaign=14

Fire it in and off you go.....

29-05-2020 12:54pm

No Condensing boiler 98% efficient ?

That's probably what 70% efficient ?

But compared to the cost of HP I suppose Oil is by far the cheapest.

HP really needs to come down in cost but the installation too, this is a real issue.

Shefwedfan · 29-05-2020 1:18pm

Deleted User wrote: »

No Condensing boiler 98% efficient ?

That's probably what 70% efficient ?

But compared to the cost of HP I suppose Oil is by far the cheapest.

HP really needs to come down in cost but the installation too, this is a real issue.

The issue is how long will you be allowed to keep an oil boiler? buying a new high efficient one now might not pay off if you have to rip out in 5-10 years time.

29-05-2020 2:20pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The issue is how long will you be allowed to keep an oil boiler? buying a new high efficient one now might not pay off if you have to rip out in 5-10 years time.

Not going to happen. They can't force People to install new heating systems. They can make the oil more expensive and prevent new installations of oil in new builds but that's about it.

Shefwedfan · 29-05-2020 2:36pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Not going to happen. They can't force People to install new heating systems. They can make the oil more expensive and prevent new installations of oil in new builds but that's about it.

Oh I know but the price of oil been driven up will mean people will have to move. Its a small house, investing in a brand new boiler now might be crazy

Other option is Calour LPG, they stick a tank into the ground and offered a free boiler for a while....it is supposed to be 100% renewable isnt it

29-05-2020 2:39pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Oh I know but the price of oil been driven up will mean people will have to move. Its a small house, investing in a brand new boiler now might be crazy

Other option is Calour LPG, they stick a tank into the ground and offered a free boiler for a while....it is supposed to be 100% renewable isnt it

LPG isn't renewable and bottled gas is expensive + rental charge for tank.

Shefwedfan · 29-05-2020 2:44pm

Deleted User wrote: »

LPG isn't renewable and bottled gas is expensive + rental charge for tank.

They have a new renewable one. It was on the radio not so long ago.

https://www.calorgas.ie/about-us/biolpg

https://www.calorgas.ie/for-home/new-to-lpg/switch-from-solid-fuel

Its not by the bottle. They put a tank into the garden underground. I dont know the full in's and outs of it. I loved my gas connection when in the big City.....:p

29-05-2020 2:46pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

They have a new renewable one. It was on the radio not so long ago.

https://www.calorgas.ie/about-us/biolpg

https://www.calorgas.ie/for-home/new-to-lpg/switch-from-solid-fuel

Its not by the bottle. They put a tank into the garden underground. I dont know the full in's and outs of it. I loved my gas connection when in the big City.....:p

Still too espensive, they're having a laugh, better off with HP and using night rate electricity + option to install solar PV with future f-i-t.

Shefwedfan · 29-05-2020 3:11pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Still too espensive, they're having a laugh, better off with HP and using night rate electricity + option to install solar PV with future f-i-t.

I agree, but if you dont know HP and are looking at huge investment then you are going either

A. Oil

or in most cases
B. Oil

THis is just an alternative which is renewable so "should" have a longer term solution

29-05-2020 3:28pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I agree, but if you dont know HP and are looking at huge investment then you are going either

A. Oil

or in most cases
B. Oil

THis is just an alternative which is renewable so "should" have a longer term solution

Yeah Oil is the cheapest way to go for now.

GaGa21 · 30-05-2020 5:45pm

We did refurb of a 70s bungalow last year and went for wood pellet boiler. Heat pump was not an option with our insulation. We would have needed external wall insulation and it was just not in our budget with a replumb and rewire needed also, as well as everything else.
We were originally going for oil condenser boiler until we came across a local business that supplies MCZ boiler stoves and we loved the look of them. We were told the running cost would be half of oil too. And our local hardware delivers pellets by the pallet which we store in our shed.
We went for a self cleaning model so we only need to clean out once a week. We time it to come on in the morning and evening but haven't needed it on at all these past couple weeks, and hopefully rest of summer!
It heats the water, but if not using, we use the immersion. It is a quiet model and we have no issue with noise from it.
Will need a service from engineer once a year to maintain but have had no bother with it at all l,hope it stays that way.
Takes a bit of time to get used to and set accordingly if too hot or too cold. But we have no regrets installing into our home.
Hope that helps.

Shefwedfan · 30-05-2020 5:54pm

GaGa21 wrote: »

We did refurb of a 70s bungalow last year and went for wood pellet boiler. Heat pump was not an option with our insulation. We would have needed external wall insulation and it was just not in our budget with a replumb and rewire needed also, as well as everything else.
We were originally going for oil condenser boiler until we came across a local business that supplies MCZ boiler stoves and we loved the look of them. We were told the running cost would be half of oil too. And our local hardware delivers pellets by the pallet which we store in our shed.
We went for a self cleaning model so we only need to clean out once a week. We time it to come on in the morning and evening but haven't needed it on at all these past couple weeks, and hopefully rest of summer!
It heats the water, but if not using, we use the immersion. It is a quiet model and we have no issue with noise from it.
Will need a service from engineer once a year to maintain but have had no bother with it at all l,hope it stays that way.
Takes a bit of time to get used to and set accordingly if too hot or too cold. But we have no regrets installing into our home.
Hope that helps.

How big is the hopper on it?

Sophir · 31-05-2020 9:46am

GaGa21 wrote: »

We did refurb of a 70s bungalow last year and went for wood pellet boiler. Heat pump was not an option with our insulation. We would have needed external wall insulation and it was just not in our budget with a replumb and rewire needed also, as well as everything else.
We were originally going for oil condenser boiler until we came across a local business that supplies MCZ boiler stoves and we loved the look of them. We were told the running cost would be half of oil too. And our local hardware delivers pellets by the pallet which we store in our shed.
We went for a self cleaning model so we only need to clean out once a week. We time it to come on in the morning and evening but haven't needed it on at all these past couple weeks, and hopefully rest of summer!
It heats the water, but if not using, we use the immersion. It is a quiet model and we have no issue with noise from it.
Will need a service from engineer once a year to maintain but have had no bother with it at all l,hope it stays that way.
Takes a bit of time to get used to and set accordingly if too hot or too cold. But we have no regrets installing into our home.
Hope that helps.

Sorry are you talking about the wood pellets boiler stove in the house or a boiler outside?

Pellet stoves

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