JP Morgan Boss Slams Dublin Transport Infrastructure

bk · 23-05-2017 10:53am

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

PS - does anyone know do/will the NTA have the same short lifespan?

Ideally they should (reduces maintenance and fuel costs and keeps the fleet looking well with greater reliability).

However over the last two years they have been instructing DB to hold onto buses longer in order to expand the fleet and this trend is expected to continue with this new big order.

Eventually the NTA will have to do a bigger order to get rid of these older buses in order to keep the fleet age down. However it is a relatively easy way for them to quickly increase capacity as demand quickly increases.

On the other hand, the NTA is going to be buying lots of new very high capacity single decker bendi buses for the new BRT routes, so maybe that is where they will be focusing their resources to really increase capacity.

LXFlyer · 23-05-2017 11:12am

There is some totally wrong and misleading information being posted here by people who ought to know better. But why I am surprised?

The NTA new bus order is NOT for 300 buses in 2017 - the NTA put out a speculative tender in line with the practice followed by Dublin Bus in recent years. This practice is done to cover for a range funds being made available by the Department of Transport - they don't know until the current year starts how many buses they can actually fund.

In answer to several parliamentary questions, the Minister has since confirmed that the funding that has been provided in 2017 will provide for 110 new buses for the Dublin PSO bus network and 70 buses for the Bus Eireann PSO network.

He went on to confirm that of that 110 buses on order for Dublin, 90 would be replacement vehicles and 20 would be for fleet expansion.

That's a massive difference from the 300 buses that are being quoted here and people should really check their facts before posting complete nonsense figures as they have been.

Recruiting drivers been a serious issue for Dublin Bus and this has been reported here several times over. A reasonable number of the new recruits have left the company not long after they started, which has meant that they had to go back to square one. At the same time the training school can only cope with so many new trainees at any time. This has probably been one of the main blocks to service expansion.

Finally, Dublin Bus replace their fleet over a 12 year life span. This is the normal average life cycle that most city operators use - it is not "needlessly short" as some people seem to think. At present some buses have had their useful life extended to 16 years to facilitate expanding the fleet.

Anyone over 40 will remember what used to happen on a daily basis on the streets of Dublin because the bus fleet was well past their useful lives. The recovery vehicles spent virtually their entire day out on the roads recovering broken down buses to the depots. Let's be honest, that is very much the exception to the rule nowadays.

Having a modern reliable bus fleet that is replaced every 12 years is important towards instilling customer confidence in the vehicles and attracting new people.

Finally, reducing roadspace for private vehicles and increasing the space/priority for public transport will have a direct impact, as it will inevitably reduce running times, in other words end to end journey times, which means that you can get more trips out of the existing vehicles and staff than currently. Admittedly the impact of that in the morning peak is limited as vehicles will be on their first round trip, but it will make a difference throughout the day.

HivemindXX · 23-05-2017 11:21am

Even if not a single bus was added (which you'd have to be very foolish to believe) clearing cars out of the way would increase the speed of the existing bus journeys. It would be very difficult to argue that isn't an improvement for bus users, which means the majority of people.

Those who are incapable of moving on from the idea they should be entitled to drive their private car wherever they want, whenever they want are really clutching at straws here.

I guess that is the unfortunate (for them) other side of the AAs argument that we can't do anything to reduce pandering to private cars until public transport is good enough (whatever that means). Public transport is already good enough in Dublin city centre to transport the majority of people. Now is the time we follow through, making it even better by taking space away from inefficient users of the public space.

bk · 23-05-2017 11:38am

lxflyer wrote: »

He went on to confirm that of that 110 buses on order for Dublin, 90 would be replacement vehicles and 20 would be for fleet expansion.

Yes, though it should be pointed out that if there was a sudden increase in demand, that they could instruct DB to hold onto even more.

Given that they buy buses at a rate of about 100 a year for DB, that gives them the potential ability to increase capacity by up to 10% per year if the demand arises.

It many ways it doesn't make sense to suddenly increases capacity suddenly if the road space isn't there and the bus lanes are already congested. You just end up queuing the new buses behind old buses and the perennial problem of bunching.

You really need to free up the road space for more buses first with more bus lanes and more bus priority. Then you can increase the number of buses into that space.

As I said it is a chicken and egg problem. People drive because buses are full, buses are full because the bus lanes are full.

You fix this problem by reversing it. You free up road space first, which decreases running times, which means existing buses can be turned around faster, increasing utilisation and capacity and you also increase the number of buses into the more lanes all of which lead to increased passenger capacity and thus public transport becomes "better" and more people take it.

And of course all of that ignores the new BRT routes where realistically most of the capacity is going to be added.

n97 mini · 23-05-2017 1:31pm

lxflyer wrote: »

A reasonable number of the new recruits have left the company not long after they started,

Any idea why?

LXFlyer · 23-05-2017 1:47pm

n97 mini wrote: »

Any idea why?

No idea - but several of the driver contributors here have posted that fact.

Recruitment is an issue - you can have all the buses you want but without drivers to drive them they won't be going anywhere. If they cannot recruit and retain staff there will be problems.

To date virtually all of the new drivers and buses have been used to maintain existing schedules rather than add extra ones. There have been some limited morning peak extras on certain corridors and three new single departure routes to DCU added, but virtually no expansion of overall service levels.

At a time when the city badly needs extra services on most routes, the response has been well below what is needed.

BlinkingLights · 23-05-2017 2:05pm

BK: It's a vicious circle:

1) Provide inadequate bus service.
2) Customers try it a few times.
3) Customers are late for work / left at bus stop
4) Customers never use it again.
5) Causes more cars on the road.
6) CIE concludes there must be lack of demand (Outlying suburbs, Bus Eireann services in Cork etc suffer this dramatically).
7) Go to 1.

murphaph · 23-05-2017 9:45pm

HivemindXX wrote: »

Even if not a single bus was added (which you'd have to be very foolish to believe) clearing cars out of the way would increase the speed of the existing bus journeys. It would be very difficult to argue that isn't an improvement for bus users, which means the majority of people.

Those who are incapable of moving on from the idea they should be entitled to drive their private car wherever they want, whenever they want are really clutching at straws here.

I guess that is the unfortunate (for them) other side of the AAs argument that we can't do anything to reduce pandering to private cars until public transport is good enough (whatever that means). Public transport is already good enough in Dublin city centre to transport the majority of people. Now is the time we follow through, making it even better by taking space away from inefficient users of the public space.

Exactly. Even without buying a single extra bus you can shift many more people buy banning cars because a single bus can now make more journeys in and out of town in the same period.

Time some unpopular decisions were made to give massive priority to public transport and cycling.

AlekSmart · 23-05-2017 11:14pm

lxflyer wrote: »

No idea - but several of the driver contributors here have posted that fact.

Recruitment is an issue - you can have all the buses you want but without drivers to drive them they won't be going anywhere. If they cannot recruit and retain staff there will be problems.

To date virtually all of the new drivers and buses have been used to maintain existing schedules rather than add extra ones. There have been some limited morning peak extras on certain corridors and three new single departure routes to DCU added, but virtually no expansion of overall service levels.

At a time when the city badly needs extra services on most routes, the response has been well below what is needed.

Busdriver recruitment into Dublin Bus is not quite "the issue" many contributors suggest.

With recruitment currently "on hold",there remain several hundred existing applicants,awaiting the resumption Training activity.

Significantly more than 90% of those drivers recruited since the current drive began in 2014 remain in the company,becoming appointed to the permanent staff on completion of a satisfactory 12 month probation period.

This is an extremely high staff retention rate in an industry where,the mix of highly anti-social shift working,poor image and a,sometimes fickle or aggressve customer base,all contribute to high turnover rates.

One of the most restrictive elements industry wide,is the age profile for new entrants to the Busdriving world.
One needs to be 21, if the holder of a valid Certificate of Proffessional Competency or 24 without one.

These age limits need to be reassesssed at E.U. level,as they exclude a large pool of enthusiastic and eminently trainable 18+ year olds,many of whom would be prepared to make a career within the Industry,but are well established elsewhere by the time their 21st has come around.

It is 30+ years since Dublin Bus embarked upon the City Swift programme,which was based upon the policy of the then MD,Bob Montgomery,that 10 Minutes,was the maximum waiting time a potential passenger was comfortable with.

Today,30 years later,we still have far too many routes with 20 - 30 minute headways.

It is to be hoped that Jarret Walker's review may result in a focus on improved frequencies across the system,but unless it is understood and implemented,then it will be just another report for the Top Shelf.

Frequency Sells

!

LXFlyer · 24-05-2017 5:49am

That's good news Alek although some other driver posters here were suggesting otherwise which is what I was basing my comment on. If the issue of retention is not as great as they have suggested, then I'm happy to be corrected.

However, it still does not change the fact that the lack of expansion of the bus service (in terms of frequency on key routes) is woeful - the service has not expanded to meet the upswing in the economy - it's far too far behind it.

AlekSmart · 25-05-2017 3:17pm

lxflyer wrote: »

That's good news Alek although some other driver posters here were suggesting otherwise which is what I was basing my comment on. If the issue of retention is not as great as they have suggested, then I'm happy to be corrected.

However, it still does not change the fact that the lack of expansion of the bus service (in terms of frequency on key routes) is woeful - the service has not expanded to meet the upswing in the economy - it's far too far behind it.

Depending upon the Day,Weather,and frame of mind of the individual,I have been robustly assured that 90%....yes....NINETY PER CENT of ALL the new entrants had left the job within the first 3 months.

There are always people,staff and outside observers alike,who's Glass is permanently half-full,and emptying rapidly.
Very little positivity ever lights up their world,and the dark storm clouds of doom'n gloom tend to hover menacingly over each and every topic.

Reality,when it intrudes,does tend to provide a chink of sunlight,with the reality that Full Time steadily paid Driving jobs with a high degree of Job Security and support are valued as a rule,particularly by those who experienced the worst of our Fiscal Collapse at first hand,of which group,there are now many working as Busdrivers.

The nature of Busdriving,worldwide,makes it an employment category unsuitable for a large cohort of people.

Shift Work,often of the most intrusive kind,and the constant requirement to deal effectively,yet firmly & fairly,with a vast swathe of humanity is not something which many people can combine with the actual mechanics of Urban Bus Driving,without at times,suffering a moment of self-doubt and what iff'ery.

Each year,in Garages throughout the City,Drivers retire after 30 to 40 years service,and do so often with reluctance,whilst in many cases their colleagues of far lesser service grind their teeth in glum exasperation,at the prospect of having to work on...

Eventually,I feel,Society will recognise the sense in allowing the 66 year old positive and happy Driver to simply work on,whilst facilitating the unhappy,dour uncomfortable staff member to head off to newer and greener pastures,perhaps with a little gratuity (and a smile

)

Oh and BTW, you are 100% correct,we...as in Dublin Bus/The NTA/and The Dept of Transport are FAR behind the upswing...but they are playing a cautious waiting game...Just in Case......( It's a Irish thing) :eek:

JP Morgan Boss Slams Dublin Transport Infrastructure

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