2020 officially saw a record number of $1 billion weather and climate disasters.

Oneiric 3 · 16-02-2021 11:56pm

Thargor wrote: »

No idea what that gibberish is meant to mean like most of your posts, bloodthirsty racist liberal? Lol.

'Lol'. :rolleyes:

Not gibberish, just answer the question.

Thargor · 17-02-2021 12:01am

Of how Im a bloodthirsty racist liberal? Im not a psychiatrist so I have no idea.

Oneiric 3 · 17-02-2021 12:06am

Thargor wrote: »

I have no idea.

You are right. You don't.

But do tell me again about misinformation in 'climate blogs', which are something I don't even go near.

Birdnuts · 17-02-2021 12:09am

Have to say its been very interesting the number of cold and snow records in the Northern Hemisphere that have been approached or exceeded in recent weeks. It puts into sharp focus much of the climate hysteria whipped up by the usual suspects. The near total failure of wind power dependent grids is also telling. Good discussion on the latter on bloomberg today about the matter with many energy experts saying that nuclear and NG will have to be invested in much more than wind to deal with these issues

Thargor · 17-02-2021 12:16am

Oneiric 3 wrote: »

You are right. You don't.

But do tell me again about misinformation in 'climate blogs', which are something I don't even go near.

No as you can see by the posts I quoted that was directed at the person before you, you seem to prefer to get your disinformation from Youtube videos from the likes of Tucker Carlson and other liars that serve your confirmation bias, those are usually easier to disprove than the denier blogs.

Do you want to retract any of your lies in the face of the actual evidence you've been given or just carry on with the racist/bloodthirsty/liberal lunacy (and not forgetting your Attenborough/penguin sex abuse theories lol)

Oneiric 3 · 17-02-2021 12:33am

Thargor wrote: »

No as you can see by the posts I quoted that was directed at the person before you, you seem to prefer to get your disinformation from Youtube videos from the likes of Tucker Carlson and other liars that serve your confirmation bias, those are usually easier to disprove than the denier blogs.

Do you want to retract any of your lies in the face of the actual evidence you've been given or just carry on with the racist/bloodthirsty/liberal lunacy (and not forgetting your Attenborough/penguin sex abuse theories lol)

You haven't disproving anything I have said or posted, but yeah, you and your sort calling the shots on what is 'disinformation' or not really cuts it.

Oneiric 3 · 17-02-2021 12:36am

Birdnuts wrote: »

Have to say its been very interesting the number of cold and snow records in the Northern Hemisphere that have been approached or exceeded in recent weeks. It puts into sharp focus much of the climate hysteria whipped up by the usual suspects. The near total failure of wind power dependent grids is also telling. Good discussion on the latter on bloomberg today about the matter with many energy experts saying that nuclear and NG will have to be invested in much more than wind to deal with these issues

Cold spells are just weather though Birdnuts. Weather only becomes climate when there is an agenda to push. Thagor speaks with moral authority about 'misinformation', but yet we see this every day when it comes to how the concept of climate change is presented to us and nothing is said.

For example, just today:

"When Climate Change and Xenophobia Collide"
https://www.newyorker.com/news/dispatch/when-climate-change-and-xenophobia-collide

Thagor?

Thargor · 17-02-2021 12:41am

Oneiric 3 wrote: »

You haven't disproving anything I have said or posted, but yeah, you and your sort calling the shots on what is 'disinformation' or not really cuts it.

Conveniently ignoring the posts disproving your misinformation about the failures in the Texas power grid there but yeah

As for your accusations of bloodthirsty racism, as I said Im not a psychiatrist.

Oneiric 3 · 17-02-2021 12:46am

Thargor wrote: »

Conveniently ignoring the posts disproving your misinformation about the failures in the Texas power grid there but yeah

I never mentioned the 'Texas power grid'. Old Tuck might have, but that wasn't my point, was it, dear Thagor?

Thargor · 17-02-2021 12:55am

Oneiric 3 wrote: »

I never mentioned the 'Texas power grid'. Old Tuck might have, but that wasn't my point, was it, dear Thagor?

"Its not my disinformation your honour, I just spread it!" :pac:

Oneiric 3 · 17-02-2021 1:03am

Thargor wrote: »

"Its not my disinformation your honour, I just spread it!" :pac:

To wit: 'I can't answer anything Oneric3 has asked of me, your honour, so I'll just fire out the usual baseless labels in the hope that they'll stick'.

Thargor · 17-02-2021 1:17am

You posted these lies:

Oneiric 3 wrote: »

At least 6 dead now from the cold in Texas:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/winter-storm-frigid-temperatures-deaths-power-outages/

with millions without power. I wonder why?

Tucker Carlson (oh my God, the horror!) here gives as good an explanation as anyone:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lA46v_aMidQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lA46v_aMidQ

And there seems to be a new narrative being woven now, as shown in the video above, in that anyone who might dare to question 'the science' is now fair game to be labelled a 'Nazi'. :rolleyes:

I posted the actual case:

Thargor wrote: »

This is pure disinformation, which is going to be a continuing problem for you both if you think climate denial blogs like "notalotofpeopleknowthat" and "notrickszone" (why the stupid names does anyone know? Is it how the bullsh1t artists signal to each other? See also "wattsupwiththat") and Tucker Carlson (lol). The Texas power grid collapses every time they have a bad Winter, also ERCOTs own data shows wind energy is currently generating significantly above forecasts, interesting article here:

https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/02/texas-power-grid-crumples-under-the-cold/

Texas refusal to integrate with neighbouring states and refusal to spend money on Winter proofing their infrastructure means power from gas/coal and nuclear all failing to reach customers.

Strange that you would choose to focus on the 20% minority of power produced by wind and ignore the rest, wonder why that would be?

Rebut the point if you want or just throw your toys out of the pram and start calling people bloodthirsty racists, I dont really care, its pretty obvious you have no coherent point to make and just want the last word in the thread.

Pa ElGrande · 17-02-2021 1:24am

The narrative says it is supposed to get warmer not colder. The problem now, in Texas, is the lack of sufficient natural gas due to the unprecedented deep cold over the entire state during a period of so-called global warming. The gas production infrastructure can’t handle the cold very well and the natural gas suppliers curtailed gas to selected power plants, so that the population can keep the heat on. It is true that the remaining operating wind turbines are performing better than expected while half the turbines are out of commission because these are not designed or expected to run in freezing rain or ice storms.
Texas has a wind power total nameplate capacity between 25,100 MW and 30,000MW. Oklahoma and other plains states may also experience problems if the cold does not lift soon.

The Texan authorities did not prepare for cold weather, why would they be expected to in an era of global warming, all the models are run exclusively in the "what happens when the world gets 2 degrees warmer" mode. Texas also has to plan for economic expansion, being a major destination for inward migration within the United States.

In Ireland we got off lightly with the recent weather, however, we should not be complacent, Ireland set a new record consumption level in December 2020. Norway recently set a new electricity consumption record. Like it or not, we are becoming more dependent on the electricity grid, month long freezes are an uncommon but not unusual occurrence in Ireland and they usually impact our neighbour at the same time so good luck finding extra supply, it will be a case of load shedding.

When demand exceeds supply or pipeline capacity, natural gas plants drop off-line. There is one major advantage of coal, it can store weeks or even months of fuel right at the generating plant and storage is an even bigger advantage for nuclear. If all our future energy planning is built around unproven models that project warming, what happens when we grow demand for electricity and run into the Winter 1947 scenario?

Oneiric 3 · 17-02-2021 1:45am

Thargor wrote: »

You posted these lies:
I posted the actual case:

Rebut the point if you want or just throw your toys out of the pram and start calling people bloodthirsty racists, I dont really care, its pretty obvious you have no coherent point to make and just want the last word in the thread.

Again, no answer to any of my points or questions, just the usual meaningless codswallop. But do continue to use your base 'rebuttal' points, such as a selection of these classics below

1. 'Misinformation'
2. 'Conspiracy theory'
3. 'This/these lad/s is/are nut/s'
4. 'The science says'
5. 'Climate blogs'

I have no interest in getting the 'last word', but you firing out labels without any real substance to back them up is not a good look.

And there is nothing 'ol Tuck said in that video that you could call a lie. You are just saying that to keep in vogue with your peers.

Thargor · 17-02-2021 1:52am

Oneiric 3 wrote: »

Again, no answer to any of my points or questions, just the usual meaningless codswallop. But do continue to use your base 'rebuttal' points, such as a selection of these classics below

1. 'Misinformation'
2. 'Conspiracy theory'
3. 'This/these lad/s is/are nut/s'
4. 'The science says'
5. 'Climate blogs'

I have no interest in getting the 'last word', but you firing out labels without any real substance to back them up is not a good look.

And there is nothing 'ol Tuck said in that video that you could call a lie. You are just saying that to keep in vogue with your peers.

You didnt have any points, just rambling bullsh1t and lies, thats the problem...

Oh sorry, it was "Ol tuck" doing the lying, nothing to do with you then.

Oneiric 3 · 17-02-2021 1:53am

Pa ElGrande wrote: »

The Texan authorities did not prepare for cold weather, why would they be expected to in an era of global warming, all the models are run exclusively in the "what happens when the world gets 2 degrees warmer" mode.

And this is a crucial point.

Oneiric 3 · 17-02-2021 1:58am

Thargor wrote: »

You didnt have any points, just rambling bullsh1t and lies, thats the problem...

Oh sorry, it was "Ol tuck" doing the lying, nothing to do with you then.

Yeah yeah.

Thargor · 17-02-2021 2:00am

Oneiric 3 wrote: »

Yeah yeah.

Glad you agree.

Oneiric 3 · 17-02-2021 10:26am

Climate change to blame for the fatal cold spell across the States, scientists say:

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/feb/17/arctic-heating-winter-storms-climate-change

"Associating climate change, normally connected with roasting heat, with an unusual winter storm that has crippled swaths of Texas and brought freezing temperatures across the southern US can seem counterintuitive. But scientists say there is evidence that the rapid heating of the Arctic can help push frigid air from the north pole much further south, possibly to the US-Mexico border."

Gaoth Laidir · 17-02-2021 10:45am

Oneiric 3 wrote: »

Climate change to blame for the fatal cold spell across the States, scientists say:

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/feb/17/arctic-heating-winter-storms-climate-change

"Associating climate change, normally connected with roasting heat, with an unusual winter storm that has crippled swaths of Texas and brought freezing temperatures across the southern US can seem counterintuitive. But scientists say there is evidence that the rapid heating of the Arctic can help push frigid air from the north pole much further south, possibly to the US-Mexico border."

You forgot to add this bit...

There is no consensus among scientists over the interaction between Arctic heat and cold weather further south – Francis calls the topic an “active area of research”. Global heating is causing warmer winters, and record cold temperatures are now being clearly outpaced by record hot temperatures, but the complex interplay of climatic conditions still requires further scrutiny, to the consternation of some and even mockery among others, including former US presidents.

Oneiric 3 · 17-02-2021 11:00am

I wonder why that wasn't the headline...

But I'm still intrigued by the 'rapidly heating Arctic is pushing frigid air from the north pole' line.

And funny how 'frigid air' from the Artic when it was in a far colder state never bought temperatures this cold to the southern states when it did occasional visit to the region.

But yeah, scientists say...

Oneiric 3 · 17-02-2021 11:20am

We can see from this animation just how that warm Artic air pushed down frigid north pole air down over the N American continent:

Nabber · 17-02-2021 12:54pm

Deep freeze sends Texas electricity prices soaring 10,000%

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/16/business/nightcap-texas-energy-mcdonalds-citibank/index.html

Seems to a calamity of issues there. There is fundamental lack of connection from cold weather disasters to AGW.
If it was tornadoes or floods it would be the leading title of such an event. The usual “Global warming causes extreme flooding/hurricane/tornado devastation”

Where as with the Texas weather the line taking in the media is to defend renewables and tone down the AGW doom and gloom.
It’s bizarre to say the least.

Oneiric 3 · 17-02-2021 3:03pm

Nabber wrote: »

Where as with the Texas weather the line taking in the media is to defend renewables and tone down the AGW doom and gloom

Don't get too comfortable:

"You Can Thank Climate Change For Extreme Weather Patterns Wreaking Havoc in Texas and Across the U.S".

https://www.nbcdfw.com/lx/you-can-thank-climate-change-for-extreme-weather-patterns-wreaking-havoc-in-texas-and-across-the-u-s/2553835/

Gaoth Laidir · 17-02-2021 3:14pm

Oneiric 3 wrote: »

Don't get too comfortable:

"You Can Thank Climate Change For Extreme Weather Patterns Wreaking Havoc in Texas and Across the U.S".

https://www.nbcdfw.com/lx/you-can-thank-climate-change-for-extreme-weather-patterns-wreaking-havoc-in-texas-and-across-the-u-s/2553835/

There are waves in the jet stream and because of climate change and the warmer air in the Arctic and the largely ice-free Arctic sea, those waves are able to go far south," said Gloninger. "So places like Alaska or Iceland, which today is in the low 40s, is warmer than places like Texas, Louisiana or Oklahoma. That's why we're seeing these extremes."

It's currently full of ice up there!

Nabber · 18-02-2021 3:36am

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

It's currently full of ice up there!

Easy now, can't let facts get in the way of an agenda :pac::pac:

Banana Republic 1 · 18-02-2021 8:09am

Podcast about the blackout in Texas.

https://podcasts.apple.com/ie/podcast/the-daily/id1200361736?i=1000509520078

The podcast is called The Daily and the episode is titled The Blackout in Texas.

Danno · 21-02-2021 1:01am

If you've a few moments to spare and in need of a little laugh, take a ride on the mental rollercoaster that is this article: https://www.technologyreview.com/2019/08/02/646/electric-scooters-arent-so-climate-friendly-after-all-lime-bird/

Birdnuts · 21-02-2021 1:51am

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

Podcast about the blackout in Texas.

https://podcasts.apple.com/ie/podcast/the-daily/id1200361736?i=1000509520078

The podcast is called The Daily and the episode is titled The Blackout in Texas.

https://politics.ie/attachments/1613750582198-png.160387/

This image tells u all you need to know about the black out issue in Texas ie. near total failure of wind/solar when needed most

Banana Republic 1 · 21-02-2021 9:10am

Birdnuts wrote: »

https://politics.ie/attachments/1613750582198-png.160387/

This image tells u all you need to know about the black out issue in Texas ie. near total failure of wind/solar when needed most

You should have listened to the podcast.

Banana Republic 1 · 21-02-2021 9:59am

Danno wrote: »

If you've a few moments to spare and in need of a little laugh, take a ride on the mental rollercoaster that is this article: https://www.technologyreview.com/2019/08/02/646/electric-scooters-arent-so-climate-friendly-after-all-lime-bird/

Read the article, three points:
1 The Bikes do reduce emissions, maybe it a small amount in the global scheme but they do. far more significant is the clean breathable air the leave behind, no unburnt hydrocarbons and NOX that destroy lung function.

2 The throw away culture does have to change going into the future, how that will work with capitalism I don’t know.

3 The solution to the polluting vans going around collecting these yokes is below, this particular example is from an English company.

https://cleantechnica.com/files/2016/11/Charge-Electric-Truck.png

Pa ElGrande · 22-02-2021 12:06am

Birdnuts wrote: »

https://politics.ie/attachments/1613750582198-png.160387/

This image tells u all you need to know about the black out issue in Texas ie. near total failure of wind/solar when needed most

Random energy generation needs fair weather conditions to operate. Their key problem was their entire infrastructure is not designed for the weather conditions they experienced nor the surge in demand (1,2). Many of the states also experienced blackouts, Texas was the largest. If their grid had been tied into the other grids (which struggled as well) is it not beyond possibility that this event would have pulled down a much larger grid area and affected a lot more people than it did.

There appears to have been a range of problems hitting the Texas power plants, but the common theme was equipment failure at facilities that were not fully prepared for the bitterly cold temperatures they faced. ERCOT had modelled various scenarios for difficult winter conditions, in its Seasonal Assessment of Resource Adequacy, published last November, but it had not reckoned on such a broad-based collapse in the availability of generation capacity.

source

Weeks to Restart Damaged Texas Refineries

The market regulation in Texas makes random energy sources like wind and solar much more competitive that it would otherwise be in different circumstances. The combined cycle gas plants have enough peaking gas power to cover any shortfall, not much good though when the pipes are frozen and demand for electricity surges. What the author of the article below is saying is that ERCOT is an energy only market — meaning that there is no compensation for reserve power, hence the sky high bills for Texans on variable plans. Something they might have to rethink in future.

Traditional planning studies might recognize that wind needs to be backed up by fossil fuel (more so under extreme conditions) such that if you have these backup generators its much cheaper to use and fuel them, than to add wind farms with the accompanying significant investment for concrete, rare earth metals, vast swaths of land …. . Traditional planning approaches often have to go to get around this “bias” of favoring capacity providing resources over intermittent resources.

When capacity value is rewarded, this makes the economics of renewables much less competitive. Texas has stacked the deck to make wind and solar more competitive than they could be in a system that better recognizes the value of dependable resources which can supply capacity benefits. An energy only market helps accomplish the goal of making wind and solar more competitive. Except capacity value is a real value. Ignoring that, as Texas did, comes with real perils.

source

Other factors to consider in Texas are population growth, (25.2 million to 29.3 million between 2010 and 2020), almost all of it in or near major urban centres. Another big issue in the region are ground water aquifers depleting, you may have already heard of the Ogallala Aquifer..

Nabber · 22-02-2021 4:45pm

Record cold levels in many parts of the world and others seeing coldest winters in 10-15 years.

Wait till the droughts and heat waves come in the summer. Back to "we're all dead"

Green energy would be adopted by almost all of society if it was publicly acknowledged that compliments Fossil fuels as they are still required (short-mid term) and if it didn't come with the unicorn, rainbow fairy dust that people think it is.

It's dirty to make, it's really bad for the local environment and if a resident objects to the eye sores then they are surely Right Wing Nazis. I like green energy, I really dislike the people who champion it as squeaky clean.
Imagine if it was sold on it's merits alone.

Banana Republic 1 · 22-02-2021 6:00pm

Nabber wrote: »

Record cold levels in many parts of the world and others seeing coldest winters in 10-15 years.

Wait till the droughts and heat waves come in the summer. Back to "we're all dead"

Green energy would be adopted by almost all of society if it was publicly acknowledged that compliments Fossil fuels as they are still required (short-mid term) and if it didn't come with the unicorn, rainbow fairy dust that people think it is.

It's dirty to make, it's really bad for the local environment and if a resident objects to the eye sores then they are surely Right Wing Nazis. I like green energy, I really dislike the people who champion it as squeaky clean.
Imagine if it was sold on it's merits alone.

Globally fossil fuel inc gets about $5 trillion in subsidies annually, they're dirty to dig up and dirty to burn. They are horrendous for the environment in so many ways; there is NOX, SO2 and particulate matter that destroys lung function and causes cancers in just about everything that lives on this planet and breaths oxygen. For example the liquid solution used for fracking is radioactive on return and is used in many America states as a deicer on roads and footpaths which intern gets into the drinking water supply.

I recently got a flyer in the post from an anti wind farm campaign about 25 miles away from me. They listed the reasons why they were objecting to this installation. I often wonder do the people who're involved which such campaigns realise that the air they are breathing now is what's killing them not the wind or solar farm that will deafen or blind the local cattle.

Green energy is not causing droughts, heatwaves or freezing conditions that is climate change.

Gaoth Laidir · 22-02-2021 6:20pm

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

Globally fossil fuel inc gets about $5 trillion in subsidies annually, they're dirty to dig up and dirty to burn. They are horrendous for the environment in so many ways; there is NOX, SO2 and particulate matter that destroys lung function and causes cancers in just about everything that lives on this planet and breaths oxygen. For example the liquid solution used for fracking is radioactive on return and is used in many America states as a deicer on roads and footpaths which intern gets into the drinking water supply.

I recently got a flyer in the post from an anti wind farm campaign about 25 miles away from me. They listed the reasons why they were objecting to this installation. I often wonder do the people who're involved which such campaigns realise that the air they are breathing now is what's killing them not the wind or solar farm that will deafen or blind the local cattle.

Green energy is not causing droughts, heatwaves or freezing conditions that is climate change.

Do you have a source for the info on the fracking solution?

Banana Republic 1 · 22-02-2021 7:40pm

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

Do you have a source for the info on the fracking solution?

Yes but none that you’ll ever read, do your own research.

Gaoth Laidir · 22-02-2021 8:00pm

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

Yes but none that you’ll ever read, do your own research.

:rolleyes: FFS. Great attitude there.

Banana Republic 1 · 22-02-2021 8:19pm

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

:rolleyes: FFS. Great attitude there.

Ive posted stuff before and people ignore it and carry on as normal. I read articles that others post, Dannos link on electric scooters for example I also replied. I also researched MT's Bearing Straits proposition in another tread. Do your own research and if you can find a counter fine, I'll read that.

"If the facts change I'll change my mind"

Gaoth Laidir · 22-02-2021 8:29pm

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

Ive posted stuff before and people ignore it and carry on as normal. I read articles that others post, Dannos link on electric scooters for example I also replied. I also researched MT's Bearing Straits proposition in another tread. Do your own research and if you can find a counter fine, I'll read that.

"If the facts change I'll change my mind"

So you don't have a source, then. Fair enough.

Gaoth Laidir · 22-02-2021 8:52pm

Anyone else with a less childish attitude able to shed some light on BR's claim that

For example the liquid solution used for fracking is radioactive on return and is used in many America states as a deicer on roads and footpaths which intern gets into the drinking water supply.

Having done some searching I was unable to find anything to back up the above, and BR refuses to cooperate.

Pa ElGrande · 22-02-2021 9:09pm

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

. . .
Green energy is not causing droughts, heatwaves or freezing conditions that is climate change.

By that logic neither are fossil fuels. How are the raw materials that make up the wind turbines mined and extracted and produced into the final product (Steel, Concrete, plastic, fibreglass, Aluminium, Copper, rare earth metals). When all the assembly and maintenance is taken into account what is the energy returned on energy invested (EROEI) and likewise what is the process for Solar panels. The fibreglass blades have a lifespan anywhere between 10 to 30 years depending on the design and environment they operate in and they have to be disposed of eventually. Some of these products tend to go off-line in the evening when electricity demand peaks and only operate reliably in fair weather conditions, and must be backed up by 100% fossil fuel reserve, that requires capital expenditure and maintenance when they are not producing anything. They are not good for grid inertia and cannot be enabled on demand, the cost of their being intermittent is borne by the fossil fuel operators who pass the costs onto the consumer and then we get onto the subject of burning timber . . . this is classified as renewable. Michael Moore and co. covered that last year. Hydro electricity works (most of the time), however it's killed way more people to date than nuclear energy.

Gaoth Laidir · 22-02-2021 9:41pm

I managed to find something relating to questions asked of authorities for spreading AquaSalina (refined brine water from below oil fields, not related to fracking) as deicer in limited extreme cold weather events in Ohio but the fears of the environmentalists are grossly unfounded, it seems. The actual exposure to the public was found to be about 0.6 millirem per year, which is negligible. It's the same as eating 60 bananas in a year. Typical human exposure from natural background radiation is around 620 mrem/year.

https://local12.com/news/investigates/serious-questions-about-radioactive-element-in-highway-de-icer

Just for comparison and perspective, 1 millirem is the equivalent of

- Three days of living in Atlanta
- Two days of living in Denver
- About seven hours in some spots in the Espirito Santo State of Brazil.

- an average year of TV watching
- a year of wearing a luminous dial watch
- a coast-to-coast airline flight
- a year living next door to a normally operating nuclear power plant

The loss in life-expectancy from a 1-mrem exposure is about 1.2 minutes, equivalent to:

- crossing the street three times
- three puffs on a cigarette
- 10 extra Calories for an overweight person

So Banana Republic, I would ease off the scaremongering a bit and try to look at these things in perspective a bit before posting a claim like that. As you say, do your research. Now that the facts have changed, maybe you'll change your mind...

Banana Republic 1 · 22-02-2021 10:03pm

Pa ElGrande wrote: »

By that logic neither are fossil fuels. How are the raw materials that make up the wind turbines mined and extracted and produced into the final product (Steel, Concrete, plastic, fibreglass, Aluminium, Copper, rare earth metals). When all the assembly and maintenance is taken into account what is the energy returned on energy invested (EROEI) and likewise what is the process for Solar panels. The fibreglass blades have a lifespan anywhere between 10 to 30 years depending on the design and environment they operate in and they have to be disposed of eventually. Some of these products tend to go off-line in the evening when electricity demand peaks and only operate reliably in fair weather conditions, and must be backed up by 100% fossil fuel reserve, that requires capital expenditure and maintenance when they are not producing anything. They are not good for grid inertia and cannot be enabled on demand, the cost of their being intermittent is borne by the fossil fuel operators who pass the costs onto the consumer and then we get onto the subject of burning timber . . . this is classified as renewable. Michael Moore and co. covered that last year. Hydro electricity works (most of the time), however it's killed way more people to date than nuclear energy.

Well for one fossil fuels totally are!

Nuclear power is part of the solution I’ve not argued against it. I would have reservations about it being in Ireland, power plants that is, purely because the state has given us the luas that didn’t join up, the dail printer and the fiasco of the children’s hospital.

Hydro works and could really utilise wind power but Ireland would need about 30 turlough hill installations. They are studying/building a hydro station in Japan utilising sea water, although you’d imagine the maintenance of such a thing would be never ending.

There are plans put forward to have massive solar farms in North Africa connected to Europe via DC current cables either through Spain or under the med.

The answer for Ireland is wind and solar backed by battery and hydro storage with the interconnection to the European grid.

Oneiric 3 · 23-02-2021 12:42am

Nabber wrote: »

It's dirty to make, it's really bad for the local environment and if a resident objects to the eye sores then they are surely Right Wing Nazis. I like green energy, I really dislike the people who champion it as squeaky clean.
Imagine if it was sold on it's merits alone.

That doc I posted on here last year really reveal just how environmentally destructive 'clean energy' is. People who champion wind farms / solar etc don't seem to consider where the materials come from (and which depend totally on fossil fuels to extract) to produce them in the first place, but instead, as you say, just call those who say 'hey, wait a minute...' every name under the sun. Thankfully, society is slowly but surely waking up to these frauds.

Gaoth Laidir · 23-02-2021 12:55am

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

Well for one fossil fuels totally are!

Nuclear power is part of the solution I’ve not argued against it. I would have reservations about it being in Ireland, power plants that is, purely because the state has given us the luas that didn’t join up, the dail printer and the fiasco of the children’s hospital.

Hydro works and could really utilise wind power but Ireland would need about 30 turlough hill installations. They are studying/building a hydro station in Japan utilising sea water, although you’d imagine the maintenance of such a thing would be never ending.

There are plans put forward to have massive solar farms in North Africa connected to Europe via DC current cables either through Spain or under the med.

The answer for Ireland is wind and solar backed by battery and hydro storage with the interconnection to the European grid.

Do you have a source for the 30 Turlough Hill installations? Can't take anything you say seriously without a proper source.

Banana Republic 1 · 23-02-2021 1:29am

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

Do you have a source for the 30 Turlough Hill installations? Can't take anything you say seriously without a proper source.

Yes I have a source.

Pa ElGrande · 23-02-2021 7:28am

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

. . .
The answer for Ireland is wind and solar backed by battery and hydro storage with the interconnection to the European grid.

The physical, regulatory, diplomatic and security infrastructure to support and maintain that has to be paid for by the end consumer and fundamentally production and availability of supply are tied to fair weather conditions. I would not like to be the people on an island at the end of the distribution supply chain during a month of severe winter weather that affects much of Europe.

Banana Republic 1 · 23-02-2021 8:45am

Pa ElGrande wrote: »

The physical, regulatory, diplomatic and security infrastructure to support and maintain that has to be paid for by the end consumer and fundamentally production and availability of supply are tied to fair weather conditions. I would not like to be the people on an island at the end of the distribution supply chain during a month of severe winter weather that affects much of Europe.

You’d best move then as the future is coming. “Fossil fuel inc get €5 trillion in subsidies annually”.

Pa ElGrande · 23-02-2021 9:20am

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

You’d best move then as the future is coming. “Fossil fuel inc get €5 trillion in subsidies annually”.

Fantasy make believe accounting by the IMF. I'm not kidding, they count fixing pot holes as a subsidy to the fossil fuel industry.

Broader externalities associated with the use of road fuels in vehicles, such as traffic congestion and accidents (most important) and road damage (less important). Although motorists may take into account (“internalize”) some of these costs in their driving decisions (for example, the average amount of congestion on the road, the risk of injuring themselves in single-vehicle collisions), they do not take into account other costs such as their own contribution to congestion and slower travel speeds, injury risks to pedestrians and cyclists and occupants of other vehicles, and the burden on third parties of property damage and medical costs (van Bentham 2015).

source

23-02-2021 4:50pm

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

Well for one fossil fuels totally are!

Nuclear power is part of the solution I’ve not argued against it. I would have reservations about it being in Ireland, power plants that is, purely because the state has given us the luas that didn’t join up, the dail printer and the fiasco of the children’s hospital.

Hydro works and could really utilise wind power but Ireland would need about 30 turlough hill installations. They are studying/building a hydro station in Japan utilising sea water, although you’d imagine the maintenance of such a thing would be never ending.

There are plans put forward to have massive solar farms in North Africa connected to Europe via DC current cables either through Spain or under the med.

The answer for Ireland is wind and solar backed by battery and hydro storage with the interconnection to the European grid.

Pity you can't harvest the energy of damp.

2020 officially saw a record number of $1 billion weather and climate disasters.

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