Family saloon for under €12K

Shefwedfan · 19-09-2019 6:34pm

JayZeus wrote: »

Real world about 9.5L/100km on a 3800km European trip. Heavy car and not particularly nice to drive. 2015 2L petrol auto version. Good on paper, crap in the real world.

Look a little more and ignore the people too busy trying to convince the world that they make a smart purchasing decision and you’ll find a lot of similar reports. I’d give it 5/10 in all regards.

Not really a car I would be buying if I was doing 3800km across Europe....diesel is your man

How was it on short journeys on battery alone? which is what OP will use it for

Belfast · 19-09-2019 6:34pm

2014 (142) Skoda Superb 1.4 TSI S 125PS 5DR
€9,900 Price: €9,900
Odometer: 106,576 miles /
171,513 km
d43864c90df075c94489ddbe4ca5ffe9ff279ea1dddffedb7fb993ec1e19f279.jpg

d43864c90df075c94489ddbe4ca5ffe9ff279ea1dddffedb7fb993ec1e19f279.jpg

https://www.carsireland.ie/detail.php?ad_id=2343087&r=s.php%3Fm%5B%5D%3D80%26o%5B%5D%3D683%26e%3D12000%26f%3D1%26t%3D1%26g%3D0

Shefwedfan · 19-09-2019 6:36pm

colm_mcm wrote: »

It’s where all the owners are, for sure. Same as if someone has a Superb vs Mondeo question, would you direct them to Briskoda.com or talkford.net or whatever? Not if they needed an unbiased opinion.

I don’t agree with segregating electric cars from the main forums, it just encourages groupthink, and anyone with a differing opinion is pounced upon.
I think electric cars warrant discussion, and that it’s handy to have the threads all in one place, but we didn’t create a diesel subforum 10 years ago. The EV forum was created for the wrong reasons in my opinion.

I agree....electric/PHEV etc is just a fuel....same as diesel/petrol. I have no idea why a seperate forum was created. I think it should all be in the one....better open discussion then

Shefwedfan · 19-09-2019 6:38pm

bear1 wrote: »

I'd agree with that.
There also seems to be animosity between those that own ev/phevs and those that don't.
I'm party to that sometimes but it does get tiring seeing people suggest cars, both electric/hybrid or diesel/petrol wljust because it suits the person posting it more.

Which is what you done??

The OP posted they drive short distances and that they liked the idea of PHEV....

bear1 · 19-09-2019 6:44pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Which is what you done??

The OP posted they drive short distances and that they liked the idea of PHEV....

I just admitted it?

19-09-2019 8:15pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Not really a car I would be buying if I was doing 3800km across Europe....diesel is your man

How was it on short journeys on battery alone? which is what OP will use it for

The point which you are absolutely ignoring, is that it is not in any way a fuel efficient hybrid, measured against others. It wasn't bought for the purpose of the trip. The point is that over a two week trip covering the whole gamut of different roads, terrain and traffic, it returned a consumption rate of 9.5L/100km. Which is obvious to everyone else, but I'm happy to explain it to you if you didn't understand it first time. It was also noisy. Whiney transmission and not capable of higher speeds in any degree of comfort.

How was it on short journeys? :rolleyes: It's 'meh' on short journeys. 25km on a charge.

I love the way you recommend a car you have no experience with and then argue with someone who has some. Stop trying to score points arguing from a point of zero experience while giving somebody a bum steer on where to spend their money.

€12k spent on an Outlander with the intention of selling it in 2 years isn't a good move. Ignore anyone who tries to tell you otherwise. Go with a low tax, lower mileage petrol family car with a decent spec and leave the Outlanders for people trying to buy champagne with too little in their pocket. They'll be ending up with apple cider vinegar and telling you it tastes just like Bollinger.

Shefwedfan · 19-09-2019 8:32pm

JayZeus wrote: »

The point which you are absolutely ignoring, is that it is not in any way a fuel efficient hybrid, measured against others. It wasn't bought for the purpose of the trip. The point is that over a two week trip covering the whole gamut of different roads, terrain and traffic, it returned a consumption rate of 9.5L/100km. Which is obvious to everyone else, but I'm happy to explain it to you if you didn't understand it first time. It was also noisy. Whiney transmission and not capable of higher speeds in any degree of comfort.

How was it on short journeys? :rolleyes: It's 'meh' on short journeys. 25km on a charge.

I love the way you recommend a car you have no experience with and then argue with someone who has some. Stop trying to score points arguing from a point of zero experience while giving somebody a bum steer on where to spend their money.

€12k spent on an Outlander with the intention of selling it in 2 years isn't a good move. Ignore anyone who tries to tell you otherwise. Go with a low tax, lower mileage petrol family car with a decent spec and leave the Outlanders for people trying to buy champagne with too little in their pocket. They'll be ending up with apple cider vinegar and telling you it tastes just like Bollinger.

Interesting to know what you tested it against? You mentioned you measured it against others?

Also no mention of what you used it for? Was it alway off battery? Or you keep it in range of battery and the odd time using petrol?

I’m not sure what’s obvious to everyone else but not to me so can you explain?

19-09-2019 8:38pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Interesting to know what you tested it against? You mentioned you measured it against others?

Also no mention of what you used it for? Was it alway off battery? Or you keep it in range of battery and the odd time using petrol?

I’m not sure what’s obvious to everyone else but not to me so can you explain?

I've done all the explaining I'll be doing for you.

Edited for clarity: I don't mean that to be offensive, simply that I'm not interested in entertaining your questions any longer on this subject. I've provided my input, stood over it and it's based on real world experience with the car you recommended. I disagree with the recommendation strongly and I've already explained why. So now, I'll leave you to it.

listermint · 19-09-2019 8:49pm

bear1 wrote: »

I seem to have touched a nerve here.
You see quite often someone posts about buying a new car or just a car in general and needs it to be this that and the other and you're almost guaranteed someone will come on and say buy a leaf cause even though you can go max 200km and take an hour at a time to charge it up but it's great cause it doesn't cause pollution and it's perfect for your 5km trip per day.
Anyway, just my own opinion.

Touched a nerve ?

I've two diesels out in the garden for long commutes. No nerve touched here.

Your brown corolla was a depressing place in life. Jesus is that it...

bennyineire · 19-09-2019 8:59pm

Thanks for all the input and discussion peeps, it's great to see the debate on different fuel types. I'm not wedded to any fuel type but would prefer not to go diesel.

Again just looking for someting that I can sell/trade in 2 years time that will hold its value. BTW I will have a fuel card from work

Shefwedfan · 19-09-2019 9:10pm

JayZeus wrote: »

I've done all the explaining I'll be doing for you.

Edited for clarity: I don't mean that to be offensive, simply that I'm not interested in entertaining your questions any longer on this subject. I've provided my input, stood over it and it's based on real world experience with the car you recommended. I disagree with the recommendation strongly and I've already explained why. So now, I'll leave you to it.

Not sure what the aggressive posting is about?

From your post and description it sound like you bought a PHEV for the wrong type of driving. The main benefit of the PHEV is trying to drive as much as possible in battery mode and also it’s a car which is more suited to city driving than constantly on the motorway

The OP has a requirement to drive lots of short 5km trips which will all be on the battery. In the odd situation he needs to go further the petrol will kick in so no need to use those pesky charge points....

If you buy a PHEV to hammer it along the motorway day in day out then your buying the wrong vehicle, get yourself a diesel for that job

I don’t see how you have stood over anything to be honest, you quoted some vague numbers about 3800 km across Europe and high ltr/100km but in same post says it will do 25km on battery.

I think it’s a fairly easy question in regards to the outlander mostly running on battery mode or was it mostly running off petrol?

Shefwedfan · 19-09-2019 9:11pm

bennyineire wrote: »

Thanks for all the input and discussion peeps, it's great to see the debate on different fuel types. I'm not wedded to any fuel type but would prefer not to go diesel.

Again just looking for someting that I can sell/trade in 2 years time that will hold its value. BTW I will have a fuel card from work

If you have fuel card does that mean you get vat off diesel?

Shefwedfan · 19-09-2019 9:20pm

bennyineire wrote: »

Thanks for all the input and discussion peeps, it's great to see the debate on different fuel types. I'm not wedded to any fuel type but would prefer not to go diesel.

Again just looking for someting that I can sell/trade in 2 years time that will hold its value. BTW I will have a fuel card from work

Anything petrol/hybrid/PHEV/electric seems to be the way to go, the closer to full BEV the better

The tax is only going one way on diesel from the reports. It’s seems the common train of thought is being diesel in line with petrol so that’s an extra 10 c per ltr, but all guess work

If you look at the world market that’s the way it’s going. Ireland is still buying diesel, mostly dumped here from the UK as the value has dropped over those. Will that last? I don’t know

Best bet at the moment is move away from diesel....could I be wrong, of course

bennyineire · 19-09-2019 10:02pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Anything petrol/hybrid/PHEV/electric seems to be the way to go, the closer to full BEV the better

The tax is only going one way on diesel from the reports. It’s seems the common train of thought is being diesel in line with petrol so that’s an extra 10 c per ltr, but all guess work

If you look at the world market that’s the way it’s going. Ireland is still buying diesel, mostly dumped here from the UK as the value has dropped over those. Will that last? I don’t know

Best bet at the moment is move away from diesel....could I be wrong, of course

Not likely, diesels day is done. It's the easiest way for all Governments in the world to reduce emissions and everyone is expecting it. A free hit for the Government TBH

Shefwedfan · 19-09-2019 10:07pm

bennyineire wrote: »

Not likely, diesels day is done. It's the easiest way for all Governments in the world to reduce emissions and everyone is expecting it. A free hit for the Government TBH

The government answer to everything is tax

Diesel is now bad and is currently earning 10c less a ltr, so expect them to bring that up. No chance they would reduce petrol to the diesel tax level.

I was in VW recently, even the VW dealer said for my driving I need a hybrid but best he could sell was a straight petrol Tiguan Allspace.....I have bought a lot of VW/Audi over my life and I nearly dropped when they didn't push me into a diesel.....just shows you the way the market is going when VW are saying to go petrol

colm_mcm · 19-09-2019 10:09pm

VW dealers want to sell cars, they’ll sell whatever they’re given.

Shefwedfan · 19-09-2019 10:27pm

colm_mcm wrote: »

VW dealers want to sell cars, they’ll sell whatever they’re given.

Check the stock of diesel in VW Liffey valley

bennyineire · 19-09-2019 10:33pm

Mmmm thoughts on this https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/mitsubishi-lancer-1-6-mivec-intense-4dr-low-mile/22887501

colm_mcm · 19-09-2019 10:40pm

It was outdated in 2008!

They are reliable at least, a few family members had them. They are way off the pace of other 2016 cars, but if you put simplicity over refinement, style and technology then they’re not a bad shout considering tax is only €280, no turbo to worry about etc.
it would kill me to pay that much for such a mediocre car. You might as well get a brown Corolla!

bennyineire · 19-09-2019 11:11pm

This brown Corrola could become a meme for the motor forum, if its not already lol

Shefwedfan · 20-09-2019 5:51am

bennyineire wrote: »

This brown Corrola could become a meme for the motor forum, if its not already lol

Someone will love it

Yes the colour is bad....the fact the seller has a ass cushion and doesn’t want to take pictures of the inside says it all....

pwurple · 20-09-2019 6:47am

Just on the outlander, while we do like ours, a word of warning, while the fuel and tax savings are there, the service costs are up there with the fossil cars (obvious given the fuel in it I suppose). Our last EV service was 90 euro, the PHEV was over 500.

Tax on EV is 120. PHEV is 160.
That lancer is 280 tax? Servicing probably 400?

Tax plus servicing
EV 210
PHEV 660
Lancer 680

Not much saving in it really... if the decision is PHEV Vs petrol.

For 25km a day, I don't know why you would go with anything other than an EV (or even bicycle!). Looks like a no brainer to me.

Shefwedfan · 20-09-2019 7:24am

pwurple wrote: »

Just on the outlander, while we do like ours, a word of warning, while the fuel and tax savings are there, the service costs are up there with the fossil cars (obvious given the fuel in it I suppose). Our last EV service was 90 euro, the PHEV was over 500.

Tax on EV is 120. PHEV is 160.
That lancer is 280 tax? Servicing probably 400?

Tax plus servicing
EV 210
PHEV 660
Lancer 680

Not much saving in it really... if the decision is PHEV Vs petrol.

For 25km a day, I don't know why you would go with anything other than an EV (or even bicycle!). Looks like a no brainer to me.

Why was the PHEV 500 for service?

Was this standard service?

pwurple · 20-09-2019 9:26am

Yes, standard service, didn't take any of their optional extras like battery conditioning etc. PHEVs are a combo, so you end up servicing both the combustion system with all it's oil, coolants, and other dirty systems like that , as well as the electric system, and the additional integration system which links the two together. That is the main downside of any PHEV, the servicing complexity.

Don't get me wrong, we like the car, the size is very handy when you've got 4 bikes, a dog, beach gear, and a family to jam into it, and you can't afford the Tesla equiv. The type of driving we do (90% of our trips are ~30km) means we only need to put petrol in once or twice a year... But our pure EV is still way ahead for cost effectiveness due to the few hundred a year saved on servicing. There isn't that much saving over petrol at low mileage between an efficient petrol and a PHEV, compared to the EV.

kirving · 20-09-2019 9:48am

pwurple wrote: »

Just on the outlander, while we do like ours, a word of warning, while the fuel and tax savings are there, the service costs are up there with the fossil cars (obvious given the fuel in it I suppose). Our last EV service was 90 euro, the PHEV was over 500.

Tax on EV is 120. PHEV is 160.
That lancer is 280 tax? Servicing probably 400?

Tax plus servicing
EV 210
PHEV 660
Lancer 680

Not much saving in it really... if the decision is PHEV Vs petrol.

For 25km a day, I don't know why you would go with anything other than an EV (or even bicycle!). Looks like a no brainer to me.

A standard service for my Diesel Hybrid is €180. What makes the PHEV cost €500? I would have my doubts about it being the basics only. It's a big car where parts wear more quickly so cost will be more, regardless of the fuel.

I also don't think EV is necessarily the right choice if you only do 25k per day. Would cost about €900 in petrol, vs say €250 in electricity?

€650 saving sure, but the benefits of a petrol are worth more than that to most people I would say. The sweet spot would be ~100k per day I think. Great savings vs ICE, not too long of a time spend in a small car.

Idbatterim · 20-09-2019 10:24am

I’m assuming the point of a non Ev is for the odd few longer trips a year that have been mentioned. Assuming there is no appropriate second car in the house that could do that job ...

I sure as hell wouldn’t be going diesel!

kirving · 20-09-2019 10:26am

Agreed, recipe for disaster with that kind of use.

Shefwedfan · 20-09-2019 10:58am

pwurple wrote: »

Yes, standard service, didn't take any of their optional extras like battery conditioning etc. PHEVs are a combo, so you end up servicing both the combustion system with all it's oil, coolants, and other dirty systems like that , as well as the electric system, and the additional integration system which links the two together. That is the main downside of any PHEV, the servicing complexity.

Don't get me wrong, we like the car, the size is very handy when you've got 4 bikes, a dog, beach gear, and a family to jam into it, and you can't afford the Tesla equiv. The type of driving we do (90% of our trips are ~30km) means we only need to put petrol in once or twice a year... But our pure EV is still way ahead for cost effectiveness due to the few hundred a year saved on servicing. There isn't that much saving over petrol at low mileage between an efficient petrol and a PHEV, compared to the EV.

I would look into that, something doesn’t sound right....did you price around?

What exactly did they do with the electric motor?

bennyineire · 20-09-2019 9:37pm

Any thing to be said for a petrol Mazda 3 ? Yep looks smaller than what I said but we are a family of 4. How big/small inside are they.

They look like a nice car with some decent up to date tech in them (unlike the Lancer)

JJJJNR · 20-09-2019 10:02pm

GTI

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/2009-volkswagen-golf-2-0-tsi-gti-5dr-full-history/23010534

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/vw-golf-gti-dsg-210/22918180

rn · 20-09-2019 10:21pm

I'm going to swing the thread back in favour of vw passat. IMHO in the vintage of your price range, it's a nicer looking car. I've the 1.6 diesel and I'm doing 8k each way morning and evening. I'm getting 5.1l/100km. It's got an enormous diesel tank, so I'm only filling up about once a month.

Servicing done by my local, trusty independent garage. Cheap as chips to service. And they're so common, independent lads are used to working on them.

The next I'd favour is petrol over phev. I just don't trust batteries to age.

colm_mcm · 20-09-2019 10:34pm

rn wrote: »

I'm going to swing the thread back in favour of vw passat. IMHO in the vintage of your price range, it's a nicer looking car. I've the 1.6 diesel and I'm doing 8k each way morning and evening. I'm getting 5.1l/100km. It's got an enormous diesel tank, so I'm only filling up about once a month.

Servicing done by my local, trusty independent garage. Cheap as chips to service. And they're so common, independent lads are used to working on them.

The next I'd favour is petrol over phev. I just don't trust batteries to age.

I’d trust batteries a lot more than a 1.6 TDI

bennyineire · 20-09-2019 10:51pm

Mmm I start looking at Lexus Lexus IS 300H in England, 15 plates for around €12-13k plus about €1,700 vrt. Yep its blowing my budget but I think I would get a good price for it in about 2 years time. Lovely looking car and hybrid.

Is it worth it ?

colm_mcm · 20-09-2019 11:04pm

bennyineire wrote: »

Mmm I start looking at Lexus Lexus IS 300H in England, 15 plates for around €12-13k plus about €1,700 vrt. Yep its blowing my budget but I think I would get a good price for it in about 2 years time. Lovely looking car and hybrid.

Is it worth it ?

Yes.

bennyineire · 20-09-2019 11:12pm

colm_mcm wrote: »

Yes.

Concise and to the point, I like your style

colm_mcm · 21-09-2019 8:42am

bennyineire wrote: »

Concise and to the point, I like your style

My friend got one last year, it’s been faultless so far. It’s able to get good fuel economy, even on long motorway trips.
Servicing isn’t cheap (most people stick with main dealer as you get warranty extension on the hybrid components) but it’s still relatively painless to own one.
They’re not overly big inside, they’re not small, but they can feel a bit snug up front if you’re any way tall. They’re a bit low slung. I like them. There are a few specs I’d avoid in them, and there are a few spec must-haves.
I’d say drive one locally and see what you think first. Used prices are stronger on them than they were a few years ago, but they’re still good value.

Idbatterim · 21-09-2019 9:11am

Came across the below thread yesterday evening op, might be of interest to you ...

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057976964/1/#post110062038

Shefwedfan · 21-09-2019 11:25am

rn wrote: »

I'm going to swing the thread back in favour of vw passat. IMHO in the vintage of your price range, it's a nicer looking car. I've the 1.6 diesel and I'm doing 8k each way morning and evening. I'm getting 5.1l/100km. It's got an enormous diesel tank, so I'm only filling up about once a month.

Servicing done by my local, trusty independent garage. Cheap as chips to service. And they're so common, independent lads are used to working on them.

The next I'd favour is petrol over phev. I just don't trust batteries to age.

The1.6 was underpowered for the Passat....I wouldn’t even buy it in the Golf

Shefwedfan · 21-09-2019 11:27am

bennyineire wrote: »

Mmm I start looking at Lexus Lexus IS 300H in England, 15 plates for around €12-13k plus about €1,700 vrt. Yep its blowing my budget but I think I would get a good price for it in about 2 years time. Lovely looking car and hybrid.

Is it worth it ?

Lexus are beautiful and the hybrid engine is well tested and easy to repair as a toyota

Lexus will hold it value as good as the next.....the hybrid over a straight petrol is great

Redsoxfan · 21-09-2019 12:07pm

Duke O Smiley wrote:

And yeah, there are a few places that will change the console language to English, think the cost is â‚¬200 or thereabouts.

Interesting, any links?

bennyineire · 21-09-2019 12:30pm

Redsoxfan wrote: »

Interesting, any links?

You do know there is a thread for the Outlander PHEW

rn · 21-09-2019 1:36pm

colm_mcm wrote: »

I’d trust batteries a lot more than a 1.6 TDI

Really? I thought it was a reliable enough engine. I agree with other poster that it's underpowered.

I see a good few complaints on batteries losing a good bit of range after a few years of charging. Similar battery technology in phones and I see how their life span is relatively short v whats expected from a car.

If battery upgrades and replacements were reasonable cost I'd probably have a different view. Renaults model of renting the battery is possibly something worth looking at.

Shefwedfan · 21-09-2019 1:46pm

rn wrote: »

Really? I thought it was a reliable enough engine. I agree with other poster that it's underpowered.

I see a good few complaints on batteries losing a good bit of range after a few years of charging. Similar battery technology in phones and I see how their life span is relatively short v whats expected from a car.

If battery upgrades and replacements were reasonable cost I'd probably have a different view. Renaults model of renting the battery is possibly something worth looking at.

Comparing a phone battery to a car battery is not really a comparison

Easiest to leave it at that.....I wouldn’t read a lot of the rubbish posted about battery degradation......

Family saloon for under €12K

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