Journalism and cycling

Hurrache · 06-12-2018 4:18pm

Clr Ossian Smyth getting a good response in. edit: just to add, he has a thread of such responses to the RSA tweet so it's worth a click through.
https://twitter.com/smytho/status/1070651485829165056

flatface · 06-12-2018 5:50pm

Hurrache wrote: »

Clr Ossian Smyth getting a good response in. edit: just to add, he has a thread of such responses to the RSA tweet so it's worth a click through.
https://twitter.com/smytho/status/1070651485829165056

bookmarking that image for next time there is the thread on RLJ

Fian · 06-12-2018 6:04pm

that article is indeed rage inducing. How can a State agency think it is ok to publish a piece like that based on anecdote and personal opinion rather than research.

And the "busy bee cyclists" is so infantalising and patronising - what on earth is a government funded agency who are charged with promoting road safety for all users, including cyclists, using language like that for.

As a thought experiment imagine replacing the references to cyclists in that article with references to an ethnic minority, to generalise about all other members of that ethnic group, and consider whether the author would remain in their current employment.

AndrewJRenko · 06-12-2018 6:16pm

amcalester wrote: »

amcalester wrote: »

It was the Communications Manager.

No information on his credentials though, or why these weren't included in the article.

I also asked if the RSA would issue a statement clarifying this misleading section, specifically in relation to the up to 1.5m of space comment, but I've been told that this is factually correct.

The RSA's recent advertisement asking motorists to give up to 1.5 metres of space to cyclists when passing has, by and large, yielded a positive response.

I wonder if they could be persuaded to give evidence of the "positive response" and how they measured it. Perhaps they've had a nearmissometer out on the road in recent months?

Eamonnator · 06-12-2018 6:45pm

amcalester wrote: »

The RSA Communications Manager is a member of the Institute of Advance Motorists and also hold an advance driving qualification. This, and their period of employment with the RSA is what qualifies them as an expert.

I also asked if the RSA would issue a statement clarifying this misleading section, specifically in relation to the up to 1.5m of space comment, but I've been told that this is factually correct.

FYI - IAM membership is open to anyone who passes their advance test or qualifies by exemption.

I completed a Garda driving course in 1979. 25 years later, In 2004 I became a member of IAM on the strength of that course, without having to do any test.

amcalester · 06-12-2018 7:23pm

Eamonnator wrote: »

[/B]
I completed a Garda driving course in 1979. 25 years later, In 2004 I became a member of IAM on the strength of that course, without having to do any test.

Boom you can now call yourself an RSA Expert.

Eamonnator · 06-12-2018 8:01pm

amcalester wrote: »

Boom you can now call yourself an RSA Expert.

Thanks.
The only reason, I went to the bother of getting membership, was it entitled me to a discount on my car insurance.

AndrewJRenko · 06-12-2018 8:27pm

amcalester wrote: »

Boom you can now call yourself an RSA Expert.

I suppose one could ask why being an 'expert motorist' qualifies you to write about cycling?

amcalester · 06-12-2018 8:38pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I suppose one could ask why being an 'expert motorist' qualifies you to write about cycling?

I’m not expecting any more replies, I’ve probably been branded a crank at this stage.

But, yeah, I thought the same.

Tell me how · 06-12-2018 8:42pm

amcalester wrote: »

I’m not expecting any more replies, I’ve probably been branded a crank at this stage.

But, yeah, I thought the same.

A friend of mine emailed the RSA also today. They sent me on the email chain earlier. I asked them if I could include some of it here.

In response to credentials.

Our communications manager is a member of the Institute of Advanced Motorists and also has a RoSPA Gold Advanced Driving Qualification. They have also been working in road safety for the past 16 years.

amcalester · 06-12-2018 8:49pm

Word for word the reply I got too.

Am I your friend?

Tell me how · 06-12-2018 8:53pm

amcalester wrote: »

Word for word the reply I got too.

Am I your friend?

Ctrl c
Ctrl v

Corca Baiscinn · 06-12-2018 9:04pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I suppose one could ask why being an 'expert motorist' qualifies you to write about cycling?

There's a thought, The Independent could be asked to publish an article next week by an "expert" cyclist, (Bikeability/Cycle Right) qualifications and experience of commuter cycling in Dublin on a daily basis on their observations of busy bee multi-tasking drivers

Corca Baiscinn · 06-12-2018 9:07pm

amcalester wrote: »

I’m not expecting any more replies, I’ve probably been branded a crank at this stage.

But, yeah, I thought the same.

Many thanks on all our behalf for persevering with it and ensuring they engaged to some limited extent

What Username Guidelines · 06-12-2018 10:28pm

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

There's a thought, The Independent could be asked to publish an article next week by an "expert" cyclist, (Bikeability/Cycle Right) qualifications and experience of commuter cycling in Dublin on a daily basis on their observations of busy bee multi-tasking drivers

Screw it, I've been cycling in and out of Dublin for 10-ish years, I can most certainly use anecdotal crap to reword the article. Hell, most of it I didn't even have to change, just swap around a bit.

We Irish have taken to driving in a big way.

It's great to see the numbers driving to work each morning, expanding our horizons and clearly the boom is back.

On a wet November morning, I admire how motorists can sit comfortably away from the elements and safely get to work to earn a living.

But - and there is always a but - some of these busy bees seem to bending the rules of the road.

Perhaps it's because there has been such a huge decline in enforcing the rules of the road in such a short space of time, with city infrastructures struggling to cope with the swarming masses?

While their country cousins are happy to enjoy quieter roads, some city motorists are battling it out for last person through the red light.

Some veer into cycle lanes like they're part of the road and exit left without so much as a glance in their wing mirror or, more importantly, the blind spot.

I'm not saying that cyclists are without fault - far from it.

No one wants to be stuck behind the poor struggling climber (who is just short of being pushed up the hill), but weaving in and out of traffic and clipping wing mirrors is risky for both cyclists and others.

The RSA's recent advertisement asking cyclists to put on yellow jackets has, by and large, made almost zero difference.

So, if we are beginning to see cyclists wear yellow jackets more, and this placebo effect is believed to have made a difference, then equally motorists need to respect the more vulnerable cyclist

I repeatedly stand at red lights and watch as car and bus after car and bus break the red light, even though the green man crossing light was on.

The worst part of it was that it's in a school area and children are crossing.
We teach our children to always wait for the green man, so what kind of a message does it send when professional bus drivers are whizzing past at speed, ignoring the fact that pedestrians have right of way to cross the road, or the school warden for that matter?

On one particular occasion, I witnessed a Dublin Bus speed through a crossing mere metres from where one of his colleagues had knocked down and killed a cyclist. It might have even been the same driver, given he was allowed to delay his driving ban until after Christmas. The green man couldn't get any greener.

All the driver could say was “**** off“, after which they hurtled onwards, minus any helmet or high-visibility gear.

This is not an isolated incident. I see motorists breaking pedestrian lights all the time.
And it's not a case of 'there's no one crossing. I'll just edge past slowly'.

I'm talking flat out, ****ed-if-I’m-waiting, as pedestrians on opposite sides frantically bump into each other to avoid being flattened.

I accept that stopping to wait at an empty pedestrian crossing can be extremely frustrating.

But in a city, you'll still get to your destination quicker than either the pedestrian or the cyclist if you just plow on through.

On a more serious note, there is also the law.

Apart from the obvious danger, breaking a red light (pedestrian or otherwise) is a fineable offence for everyone, as is disregarding a school warden's sign.

There's no grey area here, just red and green.

The entirety of the Rules of the Road provides detailed safety advice for everyone, and it's free to download.

Motorists, cyclists and pedestrians have to share the road, so we all need to learn to live in harmony and avoid dangerous behaviours.

As the saying goes, if you want to gather honey, don't kick over the beehive (Dale Carnegie).

magicbastarder · 06-12-2018 10:29pm

what's really head scratching is that a head of communications should be good at understanding what will and won't play well with an audience.
that article is so ham-fisted and counterproductive that the talk about whether they're qualified to talk on road safety surely must be eclipsed by the fact that they don't seem qualified to do their own job.
it's the sort of article that you expect the main role of the head of communications would have in its publication would be to prevent its publication.

Tell me how · 06-12-2018 10:34pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

what's really head scratching is that a head of communications should be good at understanding what will and won't play well with an audience.
that article is so ham-fisted and counterproductive that the talk about whether they're qualified to talk on road safety surely must be eclipsed by the fact that they don't seem qualified to do their own job.
it's the sort of article that you expect the main role of the head of communications would have in its publication would be to prevent its publication.

I think he was standing at a crossing when a cyclist went through and in that moment decided he needed to write an article.

It's a subjective piece implying it arose out if research when it was one guy seeing one incident and getting enraged. Road rage of a different kind you might say.

He chickened out when it came to signing it mind.

tomasrojo · 06-12-2018 11:01pm

I think articles by "our RSA expert" have been appearing in the Irish Independent for quite a long time. I don't think it's a failure of nerve over this work of genius.

Macy0161 · 07-12-2018 9:27am

magicbastarder wrote: »

what's really head scratching is that a head of communications should be good at understanding what will and won't play well with an audience.

Judging by the comments, it has played well with the intended audience - motorists!

As you can see from the qualifications as to what they expect of their experts, the RSA is too motorist focused to be effective, hence all the victim blaming nonsense "safety" campaigns.

magicbastarder · 07-12-2018 10:45am

maybe the RSA should be split. i assume a lot of their business is in running the driving tests, so it's probably a culture oriented towards cars.
maybe we need a CSA and PSA section within them - or is there one already?

Seth Brundle · 07-12-2018 10:56am

magicbastarder wrote: »

maybe the RSA should be split. i assume a lot of their business is in running the driving tests, so it's probably a culture oriented towards cars.
maybe we need a CSA and PSA section within them - or is there one already?

Is it that difficult to have a road safety body with actual knowledge of how to improve road safety?
Creating various new bodies won't solve the issue of ignorance.

Macy0161 · 07-12-2018 11:07am

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Is it that difficult to have a road safety body with actual knowledge of how to improve road safety?
Creating various new bodies won't solve the issue of ignorance.

But they also have licencing and testing, which isn't the same thing really. And is leading to them being motorist focused - as seen by what they deem to be a "Road Safety Expert", when the person is really a "Car Driving Expert".

Tell me how · 07-12-2018 11:21am

Macy0161 wrote: »

Judging by the comments, it has played well with the intended audience - motorists!

As you can see from the qualifications as to what they expect of their experts, the RSA is too motorist focused to be effective, hence all the victim blaming nonsense "safety" campaigns.

Most comments on Twitter to the Tweet the RSA sent out are very negative towards the piece.

magicbastarder · 07-12-2018 11:27am

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Is it that difficult to have a road safety body with actual knowledge of how to improve road safety?

i know, i'm conflicted about it. if you go to the RSA site, it's pretty much all about motoring on the front page. but then, most of the risk is created by motor vehicles, so maybe that *should* be their focus.

but with what (assumption alert) must be quite a significant part of their budget being made from driving tests and licences, the corporate culture in there is almost certainly massively skewed towards assuming motoring as a default.

you can see that in the communications they send out.

LeoD · 07-12-2018 9:42pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

but with what (assumption alert) must be quite a significant part of their budget being made from driving tests and licences, the corporate culture in there is almost certainly massively skewed towards assuming motoring as a default.

In 2016, the RSA had a total income of just over €73m - €70m came from driver testing, vehicle testing (private and commercial) and driver license fees - the remainder came from things like digital tachographs, driving instructor approval, sponsorship & dangerous goods carriage fees. They are a motoring organisation, there to serve the motor industry. When it comes to road safety, they are a waste of space. Actually, they are worse than a waste of space because all they do is perpetuate the myth that motor traffic is hard done by and non-motorised traffic - ie: foot and cycle - are a nuisance on the road that needs to be tolerated.

tomasrojo · 07-12-2018 10:42pm

Their funding model and their attitude bring to mind the Upton Sinclair quote: "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it."

Breaking up the RSA: certainly, the campaigning duties and the statistical analysis duties should belong to completely separate bodies. Campaigners, especially when they're "saving lives", have the wrong mindset to do impartial analysis.

Corca Baiscinn · 07-12-2018 11:35pm

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

Screw it, I've been cycling in and out of Dublin for 10-ish years, I can most certainly use anecdotal crap to reword the article. Hell, most of it I didn't even have to change, just swap around a bit.

Brilliant! Your NUJ card is in the post +Institute of Advanced debunking myths about drivers card!

08-12-2018 12:36am

Well thanks to the RSA we'd be well prepared if a yellow vest movement were ever to break out here now wouldn't we

tomasrojo · 08-12-2018 9:01am

Deleted User wrote: »

Well thanks to the RSA we'd be well prepared if a yellow vest movement were ever to break out here now wouldn't we

Funny!

I was going to post something in the Hi-viz thread, but it's quite an exhausting place to be these days. It wasn't as snappy as your post.

zell12 · 08-12-2018 11:48am

Letter in Indo

08-12-2018 11:52am

Unlike the RSA "expert" that fella was willing to sign his name to what he'd written. Fair play to him.

Duckjob · 08-12-2018 12:44pm

Excellent letter whose author, unlike the "RSA Expert", demonstrates some actual understanding of road safety.

Duckjob · 08-12-2018 1:12pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

what's really head scratching is that a head of communications should be good at understanding what will and won't play well with an audience.
that article is so ham-fisted and counterproductive that the talk about whether they're qualified to talk on road safety surely must be eclipsed by the fact that they don't seem qualified to do their own job.
it's the sort of article that you expect the main role of the head of communications would have in its publication would be to prevent its publication.

QFT.

If this article has achieved anything, it has exposed mind-boggling incompetence not only on the part of the person who authored that "piece", but also on the part of the organisation as a whole.

When you have a state body set up with a mission to making the roads safer for all, it's a bad enough reflection on them to think that the roads would be no more dangerous if they were disbanded.

It's an even worse reflection on them to think that the roads would actually be safer were they no longer around to inject their self-branded "expertise" into the national conscience.

Muahahaha · 08-12-2018 11:22pm

The article on the RSA Twitter account has a fair old backlash to it in the comments below. Hopefully between that and the letter to the Indo the RSA expert might learn something from their misguided article.

In other news WTF is this ???

https://twitter.com/DCCTraffic/status/1070222202312843269

Its like they said they would protect the cycle lane but still allow for cars and delivery vans to park up in it. Good jesus, talk about a half baked solution

Seth Brundle · 08-12-2018 11:29pm

I'd say they're regretting that article (and rightly so).
The feedback is spilling into other threads and distracting from their original messages...
https://twitter.com/wideboyy/status/1071151202371600384

https://twitter.com/DublinVelo2019/status/1070446647627431936

Seth Brundle · 08-12-2018 11:31pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

In other news WTF is this ???

https://twitter.com/DCCTraffic/status/1070222202312843269

Its like they said they would protect the cycle lane but still allow for cars and delivery vans to park up in it. Good jesus, talk about a half baked solution

I'm guessing that it prevents moving traffic from using the bus lane. It just ignores that the cyclists now need to move into moving traffic to avoid the parked vehicles.

Valerie Matthews · 08-12-2018 11:31pm

Quite a contraversary point

AndrewJRenko · 08-12-2018 11:51pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

Its like they said they would protect the cycle lane but still allow for cars and delivery vans to park up in it. Good jesus, talk about a half baked solution

Which is exactly what happens:

https://twitter.com/bewkhewker/status/1070289889495838721

08-12-2018 11:55pm

There a gas response to a guy called Craig in the comments on the Orca kerbing with a picture

08-12-2018 11:57pm

From stickybottle

http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/orcas-cycle-lanes-dublin/

Thinkingaboutit · 10-12-2018 10:04am

Some really funny looking bicycles these days. :pac:

Hurrache · 10-12-2018 11:08am

Obviously can't say how it happened, but based on the placement of the cars you could take a reasonable guess
https://twitter.com/DubFireBrigade/status/1072065815447592961?s=19

AndrewJRenko · 10-12-2018 11:30am

Hurrache wrote: »

Obviously can't say how it happened, but based on the placement of the cars you could take a reasonable guess
https://twitter.com/DubFireBrigade/status/1072065815447592961?s=19

I passed by that this morning, at the entrance to the girls school - looked pretty serious at the time, so good to hear it was minor injuries only.

Fian · 10-12-2018 1:50pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I passed by that this morning, at the entrance to the girls school - looked pretty serious at the time, so good to hear it was minor injuries only.

I cycle past there every weekday. Accident had been cleared before i arrived this morning.

It is downhill and with the entrance to the school I have had a few close calls where traffic heading into town helpfully leave a gap and cars swing into the school without considering that cyclists might be coming down in the cycle lane inside the stopped traffic.

Hope cyclist recovers well.

mr spuckler · 10-12-2018 2:29pm

Deleted User wrote: »

From stickybottle

http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/orcas-cycle-lanes-dublin/

I walked down Leeson st at lunchtime today and my optimism around these Orcas faded quite quickly.
first they don't start at the junction with Hatch st lower, they start almost half way down towards Stephens Green.
second there was a Fastway van and a motorbike parked in the cycle lane where the orcas are.
third, almost every single one showed varying levels of damage from being hit by vehicles.

as we've seen so many times before, without enforcement the value of these initiatives fades very quickly.

magicbastarder · 10-12-2018 2:46pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

maybe the RSA should be split. i assume a lot of their business is in running the driving tests, so it's probably a culture oriented towards cars.
maybe we need a CSA and PSA section within them - or is there one already?

am i correct in thinking RoSPA is the body responsible for road safety in the UK? they certainly don't seem as motorist focussed as the RSA (going by their website anyway) but do offer advanced driving and motorcycle training.

https://www.rospa.com/

TheChizler · 10-12-2018 3:29pm

What's the idea behind the orcas? Is it that it stops vehicles driving in them easily? So while you still have all the problems of vehicles parked in them, you're at least protected from moving traffic?

check_six · 10-12-2018 3:33pm

TheChizler wrote: »

What's the idea behind the orcas? Is it that it stops vehicles driving in them easily? So while you still have all the problems of vehicles parked in them, you're at least protected from moving traffic?

I haven't seen these things in the flesh. Can you cycle over them I wonder? Or are they a bit of a low lying trip wire?

zell12 · 10-12-2018 3:37pm

check_six wrote: »

I haven't seen these things in the flesh. Can you cycle over them I wonder? Or are they a bit of a low lying trip wire?

http://www.rediweldtraffic.co.uk/products/cycle-lane-products/orca-cycle-lane-product/

Macy0161 · 10-12-2018 3:38pm

Fian wrote: »

where traffic heading into town helpfully leave a gap and cars swing into the school without considering that cyclists might be coming down in the cycle lane inside the stopped traffic.

It looks like there's a yellow box, so whatever about the cars swinging in, those stopped shouldn't be blocking the yellow box. Another example of poor design.

Journalism and cycling

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