65 year old man dies in UK jobcentre

katiek102010 · 19-11-2019 3:06pm #1

https://theliberal.ie/man-dies-inside-a-job-centre-shortly-after-being-deemed-fit-for-work/amp/

Over the last few years UK have been increasing the retirement age. It is currently 65 years 6 months and due to increase again on 1st Jan.

The poor man died just after he was declared fit to work.

He's not the first and won't be the last. This is the system our current government are keen to bring in here.

mariaalice · 19-11-2019 3:15pm

Retirement age is going up incrementally to age 70 in Ireland.

Moshman · 19-11-2019 3:20pm

katiek102010 wrote: »

https://theliberal.ie/man-dies-inside-a-job-centre-shortly-after-being-deemed-fit-for-work/amp/

Over the last few years UK have been increasing the retirement age. It is currently 65 years 6 months and due to increase again on 1st Jan.

The poor man died just after he was declared fit to work.

He's not the first and won't be the last. This is the system our current government are keen to bring in here.

Too many old, not enough young to pay their pensions. Suits the govt. to work people until they drop. You're right, Irish govt. nearly always follows the initiatives brought in in the UK.

Trigger Happy · 19-11-2019 3:21pm

Sensationalist bollocks. If he had died in church would you be calling for the banning of religion?
Now let the man rest in peace.

Cabaal · 19-11-2019 3:21pm

The first issue with this "story" is your source is theliberal.ie

Its below the Daily Mail for being utter gutter, hate mongering trash.
Anyone reading it needs to really take a long hard look at themselves in a mirror if they think its a real news source.

Better Than Christ · 19-11-2019 3:22pm

The rules are very strict over there. He's probably still classed as fit for work.

Scoundrel · 19-11-2019 3:24pm

The deceased reportedly suffered from diabetes and was clearly not well, but officials at the centre had nonetheless deemed him ‘fit for work.’

Heartless bastards maybe some of the posters here want to work till they die but most normal people would like a few years of retirement I dont think that's too much to ask from a first world country.

Cabaal · 19-11-2019 3:24pm

Trigger Happy wrote: »

Sensationalist bollocks. If he had died in church would you be calling for the banning of religion?
Now let the man rest in peace.

Given theliberals links to religious groups.....they'll never call for religion to be banned.

The owner is after all Leo Sherlock, who is brothers with Cora Sherlock who just happened to be debuty head for the NO compaign in 2018. Sherlock has spoken on television and radio on behalf of the Pro-Life Campaign and the Love Both campaigns.

Leo is a class guy and does crap like this https://www.thejournal.ie/the-liberal-apology-3494523-Jul2017/

heebusjeebus · 19-11-2019 3:27pm

You'll be shocked when you hear how many people die in hospitals :rolleyes:

badabing106 · 19-11-2019 3:29pm

Better Than Christ wrote: »

The rules are very strict over there. He's probably still classed as fit for work.

Reminds me of this elderly guy on living on the streets in that channel 4 documentary recently.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LczGgfxqnYI

chrissb8 · 19-11-2019 3:30pm

He was 25 when he went in.

mariaalice · 19-11-2019 3:33pm

The UK system has become very ruthless in its approach to welfare and people do fall between the cracks, parts of the UK are noticeably poorer than here now.

I know there is a huge cohort on AH who would love that approach here, be carefull what you wish for.

Raconteuse · 19-11-2019 3:41pm

What's the point being made? That being in the job centre caused him to die?

Scoundrel · 19-11-2019 3:42pm

OSI wrote: »

Yeah, very convenient that there happened to be 2 people in the centre that knew him, knew he had diabetes, knew the Job Centre had declared him fit to work, but didn't notice him sitting their dying in the chair and weren't able to identify him to the press don't you think?

Most media outlets in UK are reporting he was declared fit for work earlier in the year despite being unwell maybe they're all lying in a giant conspiracy to promote dole scrounging. There are thousands of cases in the UK of critically or even terminally ill people being declared fit for work anyone in favour of adopting that policy here is quite frankly evil.

Ursus Horribilis · 19-11-2019 3:45pm

If The Liberal (hilarious name, given the agenda of the right-winger who runs it) told me the sky was blue, I'd look out the window to double check.

lawred2 · 19-11-2019 3:52pm

katiek102010 wrote: »

https://theliberal.ie/man-dies-inside-a-job-centre-shortly-after-being-deemed-fit-for-work/amp/

Over the last few years UK have been increasing the retirement age. It is currently 65 years 6 months and due to increase again on 1st Jan.

The poor man died just after he was declared fit to work.

He's not the first and won't be the last. This is the system our current government are keen to bring in here.

what's your point?

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 19-11-2019 3:53pm

Published by: Fernando Sanchez

I'd treat theliberal.ie the same as Boris Johnson and them, it's more effective to just start from the assumption they're lying until proved otherwise.

The welfare situation in the UK seems to have become incredibly bleak under Tory austerity but still, not believing one fcuking word from that source.

topper75 · 19-11-2019 4:04pm

Moshman wrote: »

You're right, Irish govt. nearly always follows the initiatives brought in in the UK.

If the Brits just had the decency to let us paint the postboxes green we needn't have bothered with that whole 1916 business at all.

badabing106 · 19-11-2019 4:07pm

It's in all the British papers anyway

https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/b/man-dies-job-centre-assessment-ban

BattleCorp · 19-11-2019 4:09pm

Thousands of people with diabetes are fit for work here in Ireland. Once it is controlled, I don't see the problem.

This is a load of me bollix story.

jimgoose · 19-11-2019 4:12pm

BattleCorp wrote: »

Thousands of people with diabetes are fit for work here in Ireland. Once it is controlled, I don't see the problem.

This is a load of me bollix story.

Quite. Mate of mine is Type II, considerably overweight, and drives a digger every day. Come to think of it, those may be related... :pac:

Ray Palmer · 19-11-2019 4:15pm

Well some of it is absolute nonsense and also not unique to the UK.
We have practically the identical system here. The staff do not say if a person is fit to work a doctor does. The give a full assessment of a person's abilities such as ability to walk, pick up things, mental awareness etc.. then there is an education assessment. So if you spent your life as a brick layer and now can't lift anything they don't say the person is fit to work in an office doing admin work. They will say the person isn't fit for work at 64 due to retirement age.

You can be deemed fit for work and still die of an illness. It is not the same as a clean bill of health

I see sheep · 19-11-2019 4:23pm

By some of the comments here you'd think people living in Ireland really want a system like the scumbag Tories are running over here, universal credit has been an absolute disaster.

Ray Palmer · 19-11-2019 4:34pm

I see sheep wrote: »

By some of the comments here you'd think people living in Ireland really want a system like the scumbag Tories are running over here, universal credit has been an absolute disaster.

We basically run the exact same system of assessment and have done for over decade which is just a modification of the prior system. Earlier systems were basically just a physical assessment and didn't use a doctor. They would ask you to pick up a potatoe from a standing position and other simple physical tests.

There was a program a few years ago where modern social welfare recipients were assessed using the old standard. One woman claimed she was unable to work was assesd by the old standard and deemed fit to work. The sent her to a job where she met an old class mate that lost her hand working there. She moaned that the job wasn't worth it because it was so little extra than payments it didn't make sense to commute and work there. Her old class mate was obviously disgusted at the attitude given the women claimed disability without any major issue while she only had one hand.

corner of hells · 19-11-2019 4:44pm

Ray Palmer wrote: »

We basically run the exact same system of assessment and have done for over decade which is just a modification of the prior system. Earlier systems were basically just a physical assessment and didn't use a doctor. They would ask you to pick up a potatoe from a standing position and other simple physical tests.

There was a program a few years ago where modern social welfare recipients were assessed using the old standard. One woman claimed she was unable to work was assesd by the old standard and deemed fit to work. The sent her to a job where she met an old class mate that lost her hand working there. She moaned that the job wasn't worth it because it was so little extra than payments it didn't make sense to commute and work there. Her old class mate was obviously disgusted at the attitude given the women claimed disability without any major issue while she only had one hand.

Wait , what ?
She tried to pick up a potato with one hand ?

Raconteuse · 19-11-2019 5:02pm

I see sheep wrote: »

By some of the comments here you'd think people living in Ireland really want a system like the scumbag Tories are running over here

Calling out an article for being sensationalist bullsh1t doesn't mean that whatsoever.

Steer55 · 19-11-2019 5:08pm

The poverty in the UK is horrendous, their.Universal Social benefits has been nothing short of a complete disaster. Hope Jeremy.wins.next election....

Idbatterim · 19-11-2019 5:08pm

look, someone has to keep the gravy train going for all of the gravy trains here, margaret cash and the twenty billion plus welfare spend, the politicians (although a pittance in the overall scheme of things) the lads in RTE etc...

Let the workers continue to slave away, retire at 70 etc. Why should anyone shoulder a reasonable tax burden, appropriate rates of LPT , water charges etc, when the workers can just pay for everything? :rolleyes:

Ray Palmer · 19-11-2019 5:10pm

corner of hells wrote: »

Wait , what ?
She tried to pick up a potato with one hand ?

Could have been written better but the woman's disability is not something I remember but not severe and she qualified under current rules. While they sent her to work in a place she met and old school mate. That school mate only had one hand which is certainly a disability and way more severe that the original woman's disability.

I vaguely recall the women's disability was a bad back that prevented her lifting heavy items and quite minor

katiek102010 · 19-11-2019 5:29pm

mariaalice wrote: »

Retirement age is going up incrementally to age 70 in Ireland.

Maybe so we will hopefully all die before they have to pay us back the money, we have paid in all our lives

katiek102010 · 19-11-2019 5:30pm

OSI wrote: »

Any chance of a reliable source?

I don't really see the issue with his age to be honest. Plenty of people dying in their 20s every day, should we all retire at 19?

Only source I can link but all UK media have it.

His age is relevant as if he had turned 65 pre April he would have been able to retire

katiek102010 · 19-11-2019 5:36pm

Better Than Christ wrote: »

The rules are very strict over there. He's probably still classed as fit for work.

Along with many others. I have a relative who worked as a teacher over. She did her time and had to retire but got her job back on temp 0hr contracts. She is in her 60's.

She had a stroke last year, in a wheelchair as lost the use of her left side. Speech extremely poor. Just been declared fit for work.

Dravokivich · 19-11-2019 5:36pm

katiek102010 wrote: »

Only source I can link but all UK media have it.

His age is relevant as if he had turned 65 pre April he would have been able to retire

And if my Auntie had balls she'd be my Uncle.

katiek102010 · 19-11-2019 5:37pm

badabing106 wrote: »

Reminds me of this elderly guy on living on the streets in that channel 4 documentary recently.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LczGgfxqnYI

Have you seen I Daniel Blake, based on a true story

katiek102010 · 19-11-2019 5:40pm

lawred2 wrote: »

what's your point?

My point is this is just an example of people being forced to work even though they have serious health issues, at an age whereby they shough be retired and being refused disability or health benefits, by civil servants who ignore medical professionals

katiek102010 · 19-11-2019 5:45pm

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Well some of it is absolute nonsense and also not unique to the UK.
We have practically the identical system here. The staff do not say if a person is fit to work a doctor does. The give a full assessment of a person's abilities such as ability to walk, pick up things, mental awareness etc.. then there is an education assessment. So if you spent your life as a brick layer and now can't lift anything they don't say the person is fit to work in an office doing admin work. They will say the person isn't fit for work at 64 due to retirement age.

You can be deemed fit for work and still die of an illness. It is not the same as a clean bill of health

In the UK anyone who apply for illness /disability has to apply and be assessed by a private contractor called ATOS. ATOS are admin staff not medical.

They have the final say if you are for for work not a doctor or specialist.

They are also paid commission for how much they save the government on an annual basis

Idbatterim · 19-11-2019 5:47pm

katiek102010 wrote: »

In the UK anyone who apply for illness /disability has to apply and be assessed by a private contractor called ATOS. ATOS are admin staff not medical.

They have the final say if you are for for work not a doctor or specialist.

They are also paid commission for how much they save the government on an annual basis

neither system sounds perfect, here you go in, just lash out the sob story and bobs your uncle! $$$

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo · 19-11-2019 5:47pm

The real problem is that the old age pension and disability allowance is too much to sustain. We should bring in a gradual rate of pension payment at 65 instead of raising the age over and over. Many 65 year olds might not be capable of working a 40 hour week. But if some level of payment kicks in at 65 they can top up their income with a part time job.

If I make it to to old age I can see the retirement age being over 70 if we don't come up with some compromised solution.

There is enough money in the social welfare system, it's just not being targeted correctly.

Steer55 · 19-11-2019 5:51pm

katiek102010 wrote: »

My point is this is just an example of people being forced to work even though they have serious health issues, at an age whereby they shough be retired and being refused disability or health benefits, by civil servants who ignore medical professionals

Whats going on in uk.job.centers is nothing short of cruelty . The Tories for 3 years have done nothing.but.arsed about with their Brexit, in the meanwhile, the homeless numbers continue to mount up on the streets, anyone.notice the huge increase in amount.of homeless.people sleeping in Manchester, London and.numerous other British cities these days.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2019/jun/19/london-rough-sleeping-hits-record-high-with-18-rise-in-2018-19

Harry Palmr · 19-11-2019 6:00pm

Scoundrel wrote: »

The deceased reportedly suffered from diabetes and was clearly not well, but officials at the centre had nonetheless deemed him ‘fit for work.’

Heartless bastards maybe some of the posters here want to work till they die but most normal people would like a few years of retirement I dont think that's too much to ask from a first world country.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/dwp-denies-man-who-died-17274929

It is being widely reported that the man died after being declared fit to work.

Websites are running quotes from an unnamed witness saying: "I didn't know him myself, but the man who was sat next to me told me that he had grown up with the guy. The man next to me told me that the poorly guy had diabetes and had been declared fit for work by the Job Centre earlier in the year, but he was obviously ill. The ambulance came, but he sadly died, and they had to take his body out of the Job Centre. It was awful."

But a DWP source said reports the man had been declared fit to work were inaccurate and that he had been attending routine appointments for more than a year.

So this appears to be a story based on hearsay

Raconteuse · 19-11-2019 6:01pm

Not for or against working after 65 and I don't know how I'll feel until that age, but unless the person has health issues, 65 now isn't the frail old age people claim it is. There might be people who want to keep working that bit longer. I know two who do. And only because they want to - not have to.

Harry Palmr · 19-11-2019 6:06pm

QFT, as a 54 year old diabetic I'd be mightily pissed off if I wasn't still fighting fit in 10 years time. No two diabetics are the same of course but so much about the condition is dictated by how you live your life, the choices you make.

katiek102010 · 19-11-2019 6:11pm

Harry Palmr wrote: »

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/dwp-denies-man-who-died-17274929

So this appears to be a story based on hearsay

Routine appts with the DWP are not the same as here. While you are awaiting illness payments etc you have to attend weekly,

They tell you when to go, the appointment cannot be changed. If you have a hospital appt or therapy appt the DWP don't care. Your appts have to be cancelled. You can br the Letter to them before the schedule the appt. If you don't go you are sanctioned they call it. As a result you miss your appt with the hospital can't get your meds etc.

katiek102010 · 19-11-2019 6:13pm

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

The real problem is that the old age pension and disability allowance is too much to sustain. We should bring in a gradual rate of pension payment at 65 instead of raising the age over and over. Many 65 year olds might not be capable of working a 40 hour week. But if some level of payment kicks in at 65 they can top up their income with a part time job.

If I make it to to old age I can see the retirement age being over 70 if we don't come up with some compromised solution.

There is enough money in the social welfare system, it's just not being targeted correctly.

People pay into their pensions they are entitled to draw them. It's the governments fault for not investing correctly

bennyineire · 19-11-2019 6:15pm

Around 1400 people die every day in England/Wales

Care to tell us what age they were and where and why they died ?

silver2020 · 19-11-2019 6:18pm

Thankfully Ireland will never ever drop to the depths of the UK social welfare system.

When you pay an extra couple fo cent here and there, or pay a little extra tax, think of all those you know that are getting a pension, those who are genuinely out of work, those who are too ill to work, parents who receive children's allowances etc.

Yes, our system is generous and yes there are those who will take advantage.

But if you are out of work, if you are long term ill, if you are on a state pension and if you have children, be thankful you live here and not in the UK.

There are many families in the UK that cannot afford sanitary towels for their teenage children - that along is a disgusting statement and says a lot about how the UK cares for those less fortunate

Steer55 · 19-11-2019 6:26pm

silver2020 wrote: »

Thankfully Ireland will never ever drop to the depths of the UK social welfare system.

When you pay an extra couple fo cent here and there, or pay a little extra tax, think of all those you know that are getting a pension, those who are genuinely out of work, those who are too ill to work, parents who receive children's allowances etc.

Yes, our system is generous and yes there are those who will take advantage.

But if you are out of work, if you are long term ill, if you are on a state pension and if you have children, be thankful you live here and not in the UK.

There are many families in the UK that cannot afford sanitary towels for their teenage children - that along is a disgusting statement and says a lot about how the UK cares for those less fortunate

Very well said

katiek102010 · 19-11-2019 6:34pm

silver2020 wrote: »

Thankfully Ireland will never ever drop to the depths of the UK social welfare system.

When you pay an extra couple fo cent here and there, or pay a little extra tax, think of all those you know that are getting a pension, those who are genuinely out of work, those who are too ill to work, parents who receive children's allowances etc.

Yes, our system is generous and yes there are those who will take advantage.

But if you are out of work, if you are long term ill, if you are on a state pension and if you have children, be thankful you live here and not in the UK.

There are many families in the UK that cannot afford sanitary towels for their teenage children - that along is a disgusting statement and says a lot about how the UK cares for those less fortunate

Having worked andived over there you are very right. Everyday I saw people working over there who could not afford to feed themselves.

Avg wage over is 8-10k p Pay tax on that and see how much money you have to live on. Not forgetting you have to pay council tax water gas and elec too.

A Co in civil service over at the top end gets 16k pa
.

Idbatterim · 19-11-2019 6:36pm

silver2020 wrote: »

Thankfully Ireland will never ever drop to the depths of the UK social welfare system.

When you pay an extra couple fo cent here and there, or pay a little extra tax, think of all those you know that are getting a pension, those who are genuinely out of work, those who are too ill to work, parents who receive children's allowances etc.

Yes, our system is generous and yes there are those who will take advantage.

But if you are out of work, if you are long term ill, if you are on a state pension and if you have children, be thankful you live here and not in the UK.

There are many families in the UK that cannot afford sanitary towels for their teenage children - that along is a disgusting statement and says a lot about how the UK cares for those less fortunate

yeah? think of all the hard working people f*cked, paying for it! Cant afford the basics themselves. But yeah, keep on supporting the welfare trap, the welfare state! A marginal tax rate of FIFTY percent over a pittance of an income, it will really encourage enterprise and commitment, keep the bright sparks here :rolleyes:

But we have have an obscene welfare state, to keep the likes of margaret cash etc from leaving us :rolleyes:

There are many families in the UK that cannot afford sanitary towels for their teenage children - that along is a disgusting statement and says a lot about how the UK cares for those less fortunate

yeah? you know how cheap that stuff is over there? probably a few p! I bet the folks can afford takeaways and the essentials of sky tv and expensive mobile phones though! Throwing more money at people who are appalling with it, isnt the solution!

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo · 19-11-2019 6:40pm

katiek102010 wrote: »

People pay into their pensions they are entitled to draw them. It's the governments fault for not investing correctly

I know that people are entitled to draw their pension. My point is that the government will continue to increase the age that someone will qualify for it.

My point is that instead of raising the age of retirement (which is what the plan is right now), surely a better alternative would be to bring in some level of payment for those turning 65 but on an upward sliding scale. That allows people to work less while still being comfortable as they approach their 70's.

I mean it'll be 2060 before I'm entitled to one. The retirement age will have increased substantially by then if we don't implement some other way of doing this.

I mean my dad is getting close to retirement age. But he works as an independent contractor so can take on as much or as little work as he feels able for. I can see him working until his late 70's on a reduced schedule if his health allows it. And he has his house paid off and is not hurting for money. I just know he'll want to keep active.

NIMAN · 19-11-2019 6:47pm

Won't someone think of the children oul wans.

65 year old man dies in UK jobcentre

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