Noisy Neighbours

Klonker · 08-08-2018 9:11pm #1

As the thread title suggests, I have a very noisy neighbour. I moved into a brand new ground and first floor duplex and on the second floor directly above is another apartment. The occupants are a young couple with a 2 year old child.

The problem is the child is constantly running around making noise like someone is hammering in nails and it can continue for hours at a time. It may sound like I'm making a big deal out of nothing but it can really be unbearable at times and is really hampering our enjoyment of our new home. There were no problems until they moved in a month ago.

I've already called to their door twice explaining the hassle they are causing us and they say they will try minimise the noise but there has been no real change.

So short story long, what are my options? Can I complain to the management company? I doubt anything would happen if I did. I'm pretty sure it is a social housing home as I can see from PPR site that it was sold for less then all other identical apartments in the development, any point complaining to the council? I also think that the man is not supposed to be living there though I have no proof for this, just a feeling. Would it be bad of me to pass this on to the council? Would it make any difference anyway?

Also all owners were supposed to put down the correct sound minimising underlay for their floors, is there any way to check or enforce this in a neighbours home?

Stanford · 08-08-2018 9:14pm

Do you know if the neighbouring house is rented from a Local Authority?

Klonker · 08-08-2018 9:21pm

It's not a HAP rented apartment if that's what you mean. I'm fairly sure the council own it and rent/gave it to the current occupants.

Telly · 08-08-2018 9:23pm

We have the same issue. Management company said our only option is court like some of our other neighbors as we’ve tried everything and now we’ve hit a brick wall so that’s our next step unfortunately

It’s just drama no one wants but the judge will make them sound proof their floors. For now you need to document everything. That’s what we’ve been told.

Stanford · 08-08-2018 9:26pm

I would formally write (Registered Post) to the Local Authority on the assumption that they are ultimately the Landlord and outline my complaint and stating that you have already complained to the Occupier, let them deal with the matter and give them 10 days to respond, cease any interaction with the occupier in the interim to avoid complicating matters

Sleeper12 · 08-08-2018 9:36pm

I wonder is it bad soundproofing that's the real issue. Children make noise. Children run up and down. The child could be autistic or have ADHD. In a modern building this shouldn't be a problem imo

Stanford · 08-08-2018 9:39pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I wonder is it bad soundproofing that's the real issue. Children make noise. Children run up and down. The child could be autistic or have ADHD. In a modern building this shouldn't be a problem imo

The reason for the noise is not the OP's problem, he is entitled to "quiet enjoyment" of his home

Klonker · 08-08-2018 9:43pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I wonder is it bad soundproofing that's the real issue. Children make noise. Children run up and down. The child could be autistic or have ADHD. In a modern building this shouldn't be a problem imo

In what way shouldn't it be a problem, that I shouldn't be able to hear it or I shouldn't complain about it?

imp1 · 08-08-2018 9:44pm

How new is the apartment?

If less than about 2 years it should meet Part E of the building regs for noise, including impact noise, which seems to be the main problem.

Are you an owner occupier?

As part of your completion certificate you should have the results of Part E testing, might be worth looking into?

Sleeper12 · 08-08-2018 9:52pm

Klonker wrote:

In what way shouldn't it be a problem, that I shouldn't be able to hear it or I shouldn't complain about it?

Sorry. I meant that in a modern building you shouldn't hear it to the extent that you are. You are quite entitled to complain to the management company

If the soundproofing is bad then it's not the upstairs tenants fault & you should be able to get out of the lease & get a full refund on your deposit

paddyirish23 · 08-08-2018 9:54pm

Stanford wrote: »

The reason for the noise is not the OP's problem, he is entitled to "quiet enjoyment" of his home

Surely to god if you buy something with an apartment overhead your going to have some sort of noise and should've had that in mind when buying the place? Maybe the child is autistic, I've 1st hand experience of it and believe me it's not anyone's fault if they're noisy!

Sleeper12 · 08-08-2018 9:55pm

Stanford wrote:

The reason for the noise is not the OP's problem, he is entitled to "quiet enjoyment" of his home

The reason for the the noise is very important here. On one side it could be the tenants above at fault or on the other side it could be the building itself at fault. Two different problems handled in two totally different ways.

riemann · 08-08-2018 10:02pm

paddyirish23 wrote: »

Surely to god if you buy something with an apartment overhead your going to have some sort of noise and should've had that in mind when buying the place? Maybe the child is autistic, I've 1st hand experience of it and believe me it's not anyone's fault if they're noisy!

Not quite.

There is an area of expertise called acoustics where noise transfer can be reduced if not eliminated.

In the long run, if you're only renting best case senario is just move. Several quiet evenings will be ruined before any floor upgrade works will commence, and it will require a lot of time on your part to even make that a possibility.

Telly · 08-08-2018 10:06pm

riemann wrote: »

Not quite.

There is an area of expertise called acoustics where noise transfer can be reduced if not eliminated.

In the long run, if you're only renting best case senario is just move. Several quiet evenings will be ruined before any floor upgrade works will commence, and it will require a lot of time on your part to even make that a possibility.

What if both are owner occupiers?

Sleeper12 · 08-08-2018 10:11pm

Telly wrote:

What if both are owner occupiers?

It can go to court. Possible outcome is both parties are ordered to improve soundproofing.

punisher5112 · 08-08-2018 10:15pm

If you honestly want peace and quiet city living and especially apartment living is the last place I would be.

If there are wooden floors fitted then this causes so much noisse instead of carpet.

Klonker · 08-08-2018 10:24pm

OP here, apartments are brand new, we moved in in February and neighbours June/July. If the problem is the build quality who should I take that up with?

The child isn't autistic as the parents didn't mention this in the both times I've made a complaint. I've never once scene them in the communal outside are with the child, they are happy to let him run up and down the apartment all day.

The nose is still going on now at 22.15, the night I first complained was 23.15. On Sunday morning it started at 8.00 and woke us up. We are not being unreasonable, the noise is unlivable with. We can hear it above our television sound if upstairs. Its not a few steps a night, its the running up and down the apartment over 100 times an evening/night.

I think I will start with complaining to management company about Part E noise requirements and get them to test it, if they don't I will get it tested myself as I don't see any other option.

Caranica · 08-08-2018 10:28pm

The management company is the first port of call, they will also be able to contact the owner. There was a thread on here years ago about someone who ended up suing not only the owner of the upstairs unit but also the management company for failing to enforce the development rules. Iirc they won but it took a long time and wasn't cheap.

Sleeper12 · 08-08-2018 10:40pm

Klonker wrote:

The child isn't autistic as the parents didn't mention this in the both times I've made a complaint. I've never once scene them in the communal outside are with the child, they are happy to let him run up and down the apartment all day.

I'm autistic and so is my 23 year old son. I don't tell everyone that knocks at my door. It would also be unusual to have a diagnosis at two years of age.

Being autistic myself I totally understand how noises can really get under your skin and I do sympathise with you.

Children run up and down and make noise. If the couple have a new born baby that cries 24/7 the building should minimise the noise. You can't really complain to a mother about a crying baby as babies cry. A modern building should be built to minimise the noise.

First thing is to find out if the building meets the current building regulations. If it doesn't then your beef will be with the builder. If it does meet current soundproofing standards then you have more or less proved that your neighbours are making excessive noise

imp1 · 08-08-2018 10:50pm

Klonker wrote: »

OP here, apartments are brand new, we moved in in February and neighbours June/July. If the problem is the build quality who should I take that up with?

The child isn't autistic as the parents didn't mention this in the both times I've made a complaint. I've never once scene them in the communal outside are with the child, they are happy to let him run up and down the apartment all day.

The nose is still going on now at 22.15, the night I first complained was 23.15. On Sunday morning it started at 8.00 and woke us up. We are not being unreasonable, the noise is unlivable with. We can hear it above our television sound if upstairs. Its not a few steps a night, its the running up and down the apartment over 100 times an evening/night.

I think I will start with complaining to management company about Part E noise requirements and get them to test it, if they don't I will get it tested myself as I don't see any other option.

Who did you buy from - Part E testing results should be available to you. Testing now will be difficult as you will need access to the apartment above, and that apartment would need to be unoccupied for the test duration.

Klonker · 08-08-2018 10:54pm

Thanks everyone. I've emailed management company to check does our apartment meet Part E sound proofing of the building regulation and can we get this checked because we do not believe it does.

I also asked them to can they check if our neighbours used the correct sound proof flooring as per the regulations of our development.

I will let you know how things go.

riemann · 08-08-2018 10:56pm

Klonker wrote: »

OP here, apartments are brand new, we moved in in February and neighbours June/July. If the problem is the build quality who should I take that up with?

The child isn't autistic as the parents didn't mention this in the both times I've made a complaint. I've never once scene them in the communal outside are with the child, they are happy to let him run up and down the apartment all day.

The nose is still going on now at 22.15, the night I first complained was 23.15. On Sunday morning it started at 8.00 and woke us up. We are not being unreasonable, the noise is unlivable with. We can hear it above our television sound if upstairs. Its not a few steps a night, its the running up and down the apartment over 100 times an evening/night.

I think I will start with complaining to management company about Part E noise requirements and get them to test it, if they don't I will get it tested myself as I don't see any other option.

You should find out who certified the building.

A recently constructed apartment should not have issues like this unless Michael Flatley has moved in.

If noise insulation is not correct this also raises questions as to fireproofing.

ED E · 08-08-2018 10:57pm

Play some Drum N Bass at 4AM a few nights running. They'll get the message.

Klonker · 08-08-2018 10:57pm

imp1 wrote: »

Who did you buy from - Part E testing results should be available to you. Testing now will be difficult as you will need access to the apartment above, and that apartment would need to be unoccupied for the test duration.

MDY Construction Ltd. How would I go about getting the testing results? Would they have tested every apartment individually?

Sleeper12 · 08-08-2018 10:57pm

imp1 wrote:

Who did you buy from - Part E testing results should be available to you. Testing now will be difficult as you will need access to the apartment above, and that apartment would need to be unoccupied for the test duration.

Agreed.

OP we are assuming that you are the owner?

Ask your solicitor that handled the sale about the testing results or you might have them in a file without even realising.

lawred2 · 08-08-2018 10:58pm

Stanford wrote: »

The reason for the noise is not the OP's problem, he is entitled to "quiet enjoyment" of his home

Inadequate sound proofing is of course a reason for the op's problem.

Klonker · 08-08-2018 11:01pm

Am I write in saying that a 2 year old running around in an upstairs apartment should not create an unbearable noise and if it does either the building or occupant is not up to the correct regulation?

FriendsEV · 08-08-2018 11:06pm

ED E wrote: »

Play some Drum N Bass at 4AM a few nights running. They'll get the message.

Why?

The apartment is obviously built from paper

Not the parents fault

Kids run around, you can't tell a 2 year old to stop running.

Apartment must be built like crap if a little 10kg toddler running around is making such noise.

OP can get it sound proofed or buy ear plugs, not parents fault

FriendsEV · 08-08-2018 11:09pm

Klonker wrote: »

Am I write in saying that a 2 year old running around in an upstairs apartment should not create an unbearable noise and if it does either the building or occupant is not up to the correct regulation?

It shouldnt i would think

Your average toddler is like 10kg ffs

How can such a little thing make such noise from running around

Must sound like a war zone if your average 90kg man was walking around quickly

Sleeper12 · 08-08-2018 11:10pm

Klonker wrote:

Am I write in saying that a 2 year old running around in an upstairs apartment should not create an unbearable noise and if it does either the building or occupant is not up to the correct regulation?

Let's say a two year old wearing clogs (not likely) & running up and down a wooden floor could make a racket.

If it's the building then it's most likely both apartments to blame and not just one.

Again assuming you bought your apartment then you would have a copy of testing already somewhere. Possibly your solicitor has it

CollyFlower · 08-08-2018 11:11pm

wherever you live, house or apartment, you'll get the sound of children, be it apartment or house, .you really can't stop a small child from running around, when they are older they settle down, I don't know what age that will happen. 6-8?!

Is it wooden floors?

Can you ask the parents or the landlord of properly to soundproof the floor to decrease the noise... Or..

riemann · 08-08-2018 11:13pm

Also a toddler running around at 11pm?

That doesn't bode well.

Again if you're renting I'd just move. If you've bought I'd kick up an almighty fuss.

FriendsEV · 08-08-2018 11:15pm

riemann wrote: »

Also a toddler running around at 11pm?

That doesn't bode well.

Again if you're renting I'd just move. If you've bought I'd kick up an almighty fuss.

They run around alot before bed

Klonker · 08-08-2018 11:23pm

I own the apartment so moving isn't an option. I only hear the child moving around, never hear tv or anything else or if I do it's almost minimal. It's only from the child, it's the impact noise.

Also to the people saying it's expected noise from a child, you wouldn't be saying that if you were in my position. Is it expected for the child to be doing this until 11.15pm (last week) and 10.30pm (when it finally stopped tonight). Anyway I've emailed management and I've a few things to check up on tomorrow in our contracts etc.

riemann · 08-08-2018 11:26pm

CollyFlower wrote: »

wherever you live, house or apartment, you'll get the sound of children, be it apartment or house, .you really can't stop a small child from running around, when they are older they settle down, I don't know what age that will happen. 6-8?!

Is it wooden floors?

Can you ask the parents or the landlord of properly to soundproof the floor to decrease the noise... Or..

That's just not true, especially in a new build considering the currency building standards.

Its almost certainty a timber floor, if not paper mache.

My apt is 15 years old, not particularly well built and the only noise i hear from upstairs is the washing machine once in a blue moon when it's on a particularly vicious cycle.

lawred2 · 08-08-2018 11:27pm

Klonker wrote: »

I own the apartment so moving isn't an option. I only hear the child moving around, never hear tv or anything else or if I do it's almost minimal. It's only from the child, it's the impact noise.

Also to the people saying it's expected noise from a child, you wouldn't be saying that if you were in my position. Is it expected for the child to be doing this until 11.15pm (last week) and 10.30pm (when it finally stopped tonight). Anyway I've emailed management and I've a few things to check up on tomorrow in our contracts etc.

Impact noise of the little feet???

Do you hear anyone else walking around?

FriendsEV · 08-08-2018 11:31pm

Klonker wrote: »

I own the apartment so moving isn't an option. I only hear the child moving around, never hear tv or anything else or if I do it's almost minimal. It's only from the child, it's the impact noise.

Also to the people saying it's expected noise from a child, you wouldn't be saying that if you were in my position. Is it expected for the child to be doing this until 11.15pm (last week) and 10.30pm (when it finally stopped tonight). Anyway I've emailed management and I've a few things to check up on tomorrow in our contracts etc.

Its a 10kg toddler

Get onto management about shoddy sound insulation

Wasting your time asking parents to ask a toddler to stop running

It can't be done and shouldn't be done

Klonker · 08-08-2018 11:34pm

lawred2 wrote: »

Klonker wrote: »

I own the apartment so moving isn't an option. I only hear the child moving around, never hear tv or anything else or if I do it's almost minimal. It's only from the child, it's the impact noise.

Also to the people saying it's expected noise from a child, you wouldn't be saying that if you were in my position. Is it expected for the child to be doing this until 11.15pm (last week) and 10.30pm (when it finally stopped tonight). Anyway I've emailed management and I've a few things to check up on tomorrow in our contracts etc.

Impact noise of the little feet???

Do you hear anyone else walking around?

Yes I hear the little steps, he runs from one end of the room and back and does this for hours with little breaks in between. I can hear other steps but very minimal, not an issue at all. It's just the child who is causing the unbearable noise.

FriendsEV · 08-08-2018 11:35pm

riemann wrote: »

Its almost certainty a timber floor, if not paper mache.

Could OP pay to put carpet down if it is the wooden floor or get it soundproofed

I have lived in apartments too and never experienced anything like this

cocaliquid · 08-08-2018 11:35pm

Klonker wrote: »

I own the apartment so moving isn't an option. I only hear the child moving around, never hear tv or anything else or if I do it's almost minimal. It's only from the child, it's the impact noise.

Also to the people saying it's expected noise from a child, you wouldn't be saying that if you were in my position. Is it expected for the child to be doing this until 11.15pm (last week) and 10.30pm (when it finally stopped tonight). Anyway I've emailed management and I've a few things to check up on tomorrow in our contracts etc.

Had the same problem except child was running until 3.am in the morning later found out none of the family wore shoes inside. Parents making a lot of noise as well moving furniture dropping stuff. Your management company should have house rules in place. Fine the owner of the apartment if they are broken.

Klonker · 08-08-2018 11:37pm

@FriendsEV

Not even after 11pm, no? Or the fact I have not once seen the parents bring the child out in the communal outside area?
And me pay for their carpet, is that a joke?

riemann · 08-08-2018 11:41pm

Klonker wrote: »

@FriendsEV

Not even after 11pm, no? Or the fact I have not once seen the parents bring the child out in the communal outside area?
And me pay for their carpet, is that a joke?

Why stop there, just buy them a new apartment somewhere else.

It would be the decent thing to do, maybe a new car aswell to sweeten the deal.

CollyFlower · 08-08-2018 11:46pm

riemann wrote: »

That's just not true, especially in a new build considering the currency building standards.

Its almost certainty a timber floor, if not paper mache.

My apt is 15 years old, not particularly well built and the only noise i hear from upstairs is the washing machine once in a blue moon when it's on a particularly vicious cycle.

I'm living in the same apartment for over 15 years, with wood floors above, don't think there has ever been toddlers living above as I've never heard any 'kid' noises or any footsteps, I do hear the odd Drop of something, like, keys, coins or the remote..

Has anyone ever had a mouse running between their floorboards,?

imp1 · 09-08-2018 7:02am

Klonker wrote: »

MDY Construction Ltd. How would I go about getting the testing results? Would they have tested every apartment individually?

Not all apartments in a development would be tested, but enough to get representative results, yours might, or might not have been tested. From what you describe it sounds like they might have laid laminate or other similar loose finish over the structural part of the floor. Laminate laid without underlay may give the effect you are experiencing. Part E impact testing would be carried out on the builders finish floor, and not a carpeted or laminate floor.

Pretzeluck · 09-08-2018 7:07am

Bought an apartment and then act surprised that other people are causing issues. Would never live in an apartment unless it was a choice between apartment or being homeless.

Fann Linn · 09-08-2018 7:25am

Pretzeluck wrote: »

Bought an apartment and then act surprised that other people are causing issues. Would never live in an apartment unless it was a choice between apartment or being homeless.

For some that is the choice.

Klonker · 09-08-2018 8:27am

Pretzeluck wrote: »

Bought an apartment and then act surprised that other people are causing issues. Would never live in an apartment unless it was a choice between apartment or being homeless.

I'd expect to hear a bit of noise but not like this. This is not normal noise you'd expect to hear in an apartment.

Klonker · 09-08-2018 8:36am

imp1 wrote: »

Klonker wrote: »

MDY Construction Ltd. How would I go about getting the testing results? Would they have tested every apartment individually?

Not all apartments in a development would be tested, but enough to get representative results, yours might, or might not have been tested. From what you describe it sounds like they might have laid laminate or other similar loose finish over the structural part of the floor. Laminate laid without underlay may give the effect you are experiencing. Part E impact testing would be carried out on the builders finish floor, and not a carpeted or laminate floor.

Thanks, I think first port of call is check the Part E sound testing, if all that seems to be up to scratch the neighbours flooring will be next focus point. I really think they haven't used the current underlay, if any at all.

italodisco · 09-08-2018 8:40am

I've had first hand experience with this, we had temporary tenants upstairs for a month, a lovely couple from India who had two children.

Sweet jesus the children were still running around at 2am some nights.

I flipped out in the end and really lost it with the father after him not dealing with it, went quiet after that.

I can tell you now that there are ways to fix that issue, I have put down those giant jigsaw type mats all over the living room in my apartment and the toddler always wears soft slippers, my neighbours downstairs can't here her running about now.

I did that out of decency for my neighbours below, I'm sure your neighbours upstairs could do the same if they wanted but more than likely have no respect for anyone else

lawred2 · 09-08-2018 9:31am

cocaliquid wrote: »

Had the same problem except child was running until 3.am in the morning later found out none of the family wore shoes inside. Parents making a lot of noise as well moving furniture dropping stuff. Your management company should have house rules in place. Fine the owner of the apartment if they are broken.

is that not a normal thing to do no?

SuperS54 · 09-08-2018 9:33am

italodisco wrote: »

I can tell you now that there are ways to fix that issue, I have put down those giant jigsaw type mats all over the living room in my apartment and the toddler always wears soft slippers, my neighbours downstairs can't here her running about now.

I did that out of decency for my neighbours below, I'm sure your neighbours upstairs could do the same if they wanted but more than likely have no respect for anyone else

This! My daughter is 2 and like her brother before her and like every toddler she runs around with that weird flat foot run so it sounds like an elephant approaching. Perhaps it's their short feet but toddlers running are way nosier that older kids, they really make their 10Kg count!

We have wooden floors in our apartment and any floor area the kids use is covered in jigsaw play matting, have never had a complaint from downstairs but the kids are well tucked up in bed by 8.30pm at the latest anyway.

If your neighbour wants to fix the issue it should be quite easy for them considering the only noise that's an issue is the kid running around.

Noisy Neighbours

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