Dishwasher necessary?

imokyrok · 03-08-2018 12:47pm #1

I'm planning a small kitchen in a property to rent out. How essential is it to have a dishwasher installed? It's going to be tight to fit a washer/dryer and dishwasher.

GingerLily · 03-08-2018 12:51pm

Have you check out those slim fit dishwashers? They're ideal for smaller properties!

03-08-2018 12:52pm

Who is your target market?

The Student · 03-08-2018 12:55pm

imokyrok wrote: »

I'm planning a small kitchen in a property to rent out. How essential is it to have a dishwasher installed? It's going to be tight to fit a washer/dryer and dishwasher.

The more items you provide the more you have to fix/replace. In the current rental market you will have no problem renting without a dishwasher.

Remember being a landlord is a business!

seamus · 03-08-2018 1:00pm

One bed apartment or studio and you'll get away without a dishwasher. Just remember to put in plenty of rack space for letting stuff dry or tenants will come up with their own solutions that may cause damp and/or rot.

Two-bed or bigger, not a hope.

Idbatterim · 03-08-2018 1:02pm

you can get slim / small dishwashers. If its a studio or one bed, you can probably get away without it...

how.gareth · 03-08-2018 1:04pm

I’m 42 and have never owned a dishwasher in me life. They are far from necessary. If it’s tight for space I reckon most people would prefer the extra kitchen press for storage

imokyrok · 03-08-2018 1:06pm

Eventually it will be a self contained 3 bed. I could possibly plumb in a washer dryer in the large upstairs airing cupboard but would have to come up with a way to contain inevitable leaks. I wonder how that's done in apartments to prevent water staining ceilings below.

beauf · 03-08-2018 1:13pm

I wouldn't bother in a small place.

Doop · 03-08-2018 1:16pm

imokyrok wrote: »

Eventually it will be a self contained 3 bed. I could possibly plumb in a washer dryer in the large upstairs airing cupboard but would have to come up with a way to contain inevitable leaks. I wonder how that's done in apartments to prevent water staining ceilings below.

Its called tanking and is entirely possible via specialist liquid applied products.

imokyrok · 03-08-2018 1:18pm

Doop wrote: »

Its called tanking and is entirely possible via specialist liquid applied products.

Is it relatively inexpensive? I was also imagining installing it over a container drained to the waste water.

imokyrok · 03-08-2018 1:33pm

Might be worth going into a bit of detail. This is a project with short, medium and long terms goals. I'm a widow with offspring between 20 and 26. Daughter moved out but sons unlikely to go for a few years yet. I want them to be more independent and I want my own space. The house isn't huge but because of a granny flat built before we bought it it is laid out in such a way I could divide it so that there is one 3 bedroomed home and one 1 bedroomed home each with their own kitchens and living rooms.

So short term plan is turn an existing downstairs bedroom into kitchen. Rent out a currently unused single room. Maybe get hundred a week for it and say another hundred for electricity. Leave the two sons and the new tenant to sort themselves just like any other rental situation.

Medium term - as sons move take on more single tenants. (Scare stories have put me off renting to a family).

Long term - comfortable 3 bed home available for one of my offspring to rent from me when they have a family.

So my first step is a basic but solid Ikea kitchen.

Thoughts?

Minderbinder · 03-08-2018 1:49pm

I think that kind of project might take value off of the property. Maybe that’s not a concern for you as you won’t be selling.

€100 a week I take it you’re not in a city? Had you considered airbnb for the extra income? It’s also a fun little business.

JupiterKid · 03-08-2018 1:54pm

I live in a 2 bed apt and don't have a dishwasher and really don't need one. Only takes 10 mins to wash the dishes and saucepans and put them on the drying rack. I let a 1 bed out and it doesn't have a dishwasher and the tenants have never requested one.

That said, dishwashers are very handy. Grew up in a house with one and rented places with one. Slimline ones are ideal for apartment kitchens. If you're not opting for one, at least get a chrome metal drying rack from Ikea or Woodies. Plastic ones collect dirt and dont stack as effeciently.

Doop · 03-08-2018 2:03pm

imokyrok wrote: »

Is it relatively inexpensive? I was also imagining installing it over a container drained to the waste water.

Yeah it wouldn't be big job for a contractor, little more work to it if you want to install a flush floor mounted drain (ie plumber involved) but still not a big job and you'd be getting a plumber in anyway for the washing machine pipework.
Contractor would probably need to over board the floor and maybe sides of cupboard up to height of 300mm or so. Would probably want to build up a lip at the door also to prevent water spilling out onto landing.

Water proofing product is then painted on eg. MAPEI - mapegum WPS

All in all fairly straight forward.

imokyrok · 03-08-2018 2:42pm

Minderbinder wrote: »

I think that kind of project might take value off of the property. Maybe that’s not a concern for you as you won’t be selling.

€100 a week I take it you’re not in a city? Had you considered airbnb for the extra income? It’s also a fun little business.

I'm in Rush. I have considered Air BNB but a lot of the reason I'm doing this is to stop having others to sort out.

As regards the value of the property the only thing that would have to be done to return it to how it is now is remove the kitchen cabinets. Even the plumbing is minimal since my utility room backs onto the position for a new sink unit.

imokyrok · 03-08-2018 2:44pm

imokyrok wrote: »

I'm in Rush. I have considered Air BNB but a lot of the reason I'm doing this is to stop having others to sort out.

As regards the value of the property the only thing that would have to be done to return it to how it is now is remove the kitchen cabinets. Even the plumbing is minimal since my utility room backs onto the position for a new sink unit.

Also as regards air BNB I'm not really well located. Couple of km from shops or public transport.

Mrs OBumble · 03-08-2018 2:57pm

JupiterKid wrote: »

I live in a 2 bed apt and don't have a dishwasher and really don't need one. Only takes 10 mins to wash the dishes and saucepans and put them on the drying rack.

#meToo.

I haven't lived with one since 1994.

Dishwashers are for lazy feckers who don't want to clean up after themselves.

Don't get one and you get a better class of tenant.

seamus · 03-08-2018 3:07pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Dishwashers are for lazy feckers who don't want to clean up after themselves.

Yeah, and cookers are for people who are too lazy to light a fire.

And washing machines are for people too lazy to break out a bucket and a bar of soap.

Don't get one and you get a better class of tenant.

Or you get people who leaves piles of dirty dishes and cutlery sitting around to attract flies, cockroaches and rodents because they can't be bothered washing up more than once a week.

Bojill · 03-08-2018 3:12pm

It all depends on the amount of people living in the space.
No dishwasher is fine for 1 or 2, but try it with a family.
Washing/drying after every meal, no thanks.
Dishwasher cleans better and is more efficient than washing by hand, and you can put the dishes etc in the washer instead of leaving them piled in the sink.

Minderbinder · 03-08-2018 3:33pm

How are you going to divide up the electricity bills and heating bills etc if you don’t mind me asking OP?

Also do you currently have a dishwasher in your kitchen?

Personally I think there’s no need for them at all. Anyone know what they add to an electricity bill if used daily?

jester77 · 03-08-2018 3:36pm

Can't believe in 2018 that there is even discussion about not having one in an apartment. :eek: Dishwashers are more economical, and waste less water than washing by hand and cost less to run than what you waste in water.

Absolute must have unless there is not kitchen being provided at all.

seamus · 03-08-2018 3:47pm

Minderbinder wrote: »

Personally I think there’s no need for them at all. Anyone know what they add to an electricity bill if used daily?

Fairly easy to calculate:
https://www.did.ie/bosch-serie-2-60cm-freestanding-standard-dishwasher-silver-sms25ai00g-sms25ai00g-prd

0.9kWh.

If you're putting it on daily, you'd only need the 30minute quick wash, so that's 0.45kWh per day. If we take the current average of 17.5 cent per unit, then it'll cost you 7.9 cents per day to run it.

That's €2.40 per month.

Using a dishwasher is actually cheaper than using hot water from immersion or a combi boiler because less water is used overall.

McCrack · 03-08-2018 3:51pm

Some folk around here have far too much time on their hands

Dial Hard · 03-08-2018 4:58pm

Minderbinder wrote:

Personally I think thereâ€™s no need for them at all. Anyone know what they add to an electricity bill if used daily?

Who in God's name runs their dishwasher daily? I grew up in a family of 7 and the dishwasher still didn't go on every day.

Samuel T. Cogley · 03-08-2018 5:00pm

Dial Hard wrote: »

Who in God's name runs their dishwasher daily? I grew up in a family of 7 and the dishwasher still didn't go on every day.

Did you eat off the floor or just resue the plates and delf? :pac:

Gumbo · 03-08-2018 5:03pm

I find them irreplaceable tbh.

OP, think about next year or the year after. When your swapping tenants etc
There’s loads of item that can be threw on the dishwasher and cleaned as part of the clean up between tenancy.

If you have the space I’d fit one

Dial Hard · 03-08-2018 5:07pm

Samuel T. Cogley wrote:

Did you eat off the floor or just resue the plates and delf?

We had a lot of delph. Also, cooking utensils and good kitchen knives were verboten from going in the dishwasher.

pxdf9i5cmoavkz · 03-08-2018 5:08pm

A dishwasher is not a need but it must always be the first "want" you buy.

Graces7 · 03-08-2018 5:47pm

There have been dishwashers in a few rentals. Only use I ever had for them was storing crockery..

Mrs OBumble · 03-08-2018 5:55pm

jester77 wrote: »

Can't believe in 2018 that there is even discussion about not having one in an apartment. :eek: Dishwashers are more economical, and waste less water than washing by hand and cost less to run than what you waste in water.

Except that you still end up hand washing all the stuff thats not diswasher safe or that you want to use immediately and not wait for the next cycle. Very little savings IMHO.

Dial Hard · 03-08-2018 6:20pm

Graces7 wrote:

There have been dishwashers in a few rentals. Only use I ever had for them was storing crockery..

We get it, Peig Sayer.

jester77 · 03-08-2018 6:33pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Except that you still end up hand washing all the stuff thats not diswasher safe or that you want to use immediately and not wait for the next cycle. Very little savings IMHO.

In over 20 years of always having a dishwasher that has yet to happen. I've enough dishes and cutlery and everything is dishwasher safe apart from some electrical attachments. More than worth the savings and effort involved.

Kalyke · 03-08-2018 6:37pm

Minderbinder wrote: »

I think that kind of project might take value off of the property. Maybe that’s not a concern for you as you won’t be selling.

€100 a week I take it you’re not in a city? Had you considered airbnb for the extra income? It’s also a fun little business.

Or Ireland??

Creamy Goodness · 03-08-2018 7:26pm

The amount of time they save is unreal and I don’t even have kids. I couldn’t live without one. If I was looking to rent I wouldn’t even view a place without one.

meeeeh · 03-08-2018 8:56pm

Dial Hard wrote: »

Who in God's name runs their dishwasher daily? I grew up in a family of 7 and the dishwasher still didn't go on every day.

Family of four and we probably do two loads per day. I cook most days and we don't really eat preprepared diners or take outs.

I could live without if there were only two of us but as a family you need one.

awec · 03-08-2018 9:20pm

Dial Hard wrote: »

Who in God's name runs their dishwasher daily? I grew up in a family of 7 and the dishwasher still didn't go on every day.

Pretty much everybody?

doolox · 03-08-2018 10:13pm

She brought me into the world and gave me life. She looked after me until I was old enough to cook,clean and look after myself in an approximate way. She looked out for all the trials and tribulations in life.

My mother was a great dishwasher.

My Father, possessing the diplomatic skills of Mike O'Leary actually bought an electrical version the week my mother was in hospital having an operation that could have changed or ended her life. ( It didn't, she was a tough old bird....).

The appalling timing and unilateral purchase of the dishwasher did not go down well with her when she was discharged from hospital because my father had asserted we could not afford one until she became unable to do the dishes because of illness.

When it came to him or one of us children having to do the dishes the will and money were somehow found to get the machine.

ShatterProof · 03-08-2018 11:11pm

Dial Hard wrote: »

Who in God's name runs their dishwasher daily? I grew up in a family of 7 and the dishwasher still didn't go on every day.

That’s because you did the washing up by hand every day !!!!

Dial Hard wrote: »

We had a lot of delph. Also, cooking utensils and good kitchen knives were verboten from going in the dishwasher.

McGrath5 · 04-08-2018 12:18am

A dishwasher is a must.

My girlfriend & I would usually run ours 4 to 5 times a week, very handy after cooking to throw everything in and let it run, also I do be in no mood for washing up and drying after a long days work.

dennyk · 04-08-2018 12:27am

awec wrote: »

Pretty much everybody?

Either you have a really tiny dishwasher, a really small set of plates and flatware, or a really big household. I use way too many dishes and it still takes me at least half a week to run out of stuff and/or fill up the dishwasher.

antoinolachtnai · 04-08-2018 12:44am

If you are doing up a flat, put a dishwasher in. It isn’t essential but it is a good thing to have. Irish and English people are often not that bothered about it but the French in particular and Americans often really expect it. The more bedrooms there are, the more important it is.

If I were living in it myself I would definitely have one, even for myself alone.

If you want to put a washer but are concerned about leaks put in a drip tray, like this.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Camco-20752-Washing-Machine-Fitting/dp/B000PS8J64

It is basically a shower tray that the machine sits in. I have never had occasion to fit one yet but I can see the logic of habibg a washing machine upstairs and using one of these to protect against leaks.

imokyrok · 04-08-2018 1:54am

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

If you are doing up a flat, put a dishwasher in. It isn’t essential but it is a good thing to have. Irish and English people are often not that bothered about it but the French in particular and Americans often really expect it. The more bedrooms there are, the more important it is.

If I were living in it myself I would definitely have one, even for myself alone.

If you want to put a washer but are concerned about leaks put in a drip tray, like this.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Camco-20752-Washing-Machine-Fitting/dp/B000PS8J64

It is basically a shower tray that the machine sits in. I have never had occasion to fit one yet but I can see the logic of habibg a washing machine upstairs and using one of these to protect against leaks.

Thanks for that link. That's the sort if thing I was thinking of for an upstairs washer but had never seen one.

imokyrok · 04-08-2018 1:59am

The more I think of it and see posts here the more I think the dishwasher must go in. I myself run one daily and I have vivid memories of the state of shared men's houses way back in my student days. In one house I watched a chap take an encrusted saucepan from a pile of dirty dishes and open another can of beans into it to heat. Then someone picked up an old piece of bread and butter sitting on the table and underneath was crawling with maggots.

Minderbinder · 04-08-2018 2:47am

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

If you are doing up a flat, put a dishwasher in. It isn’t essential but it is a good thing to have. Irish and English people are often not that bothered about it but the French in particular and Americans often really expect it.

It seems from this thread that Irish people for the most part do think it’s essential.

I still think you wouldn’t be saving anything and they must be more expensive than washing by hand after you consider the price of the machine, electricity and tablets.

As the landlord you’d also have to take into account that your tenant isn’t going to care about the lifespan of electrical appliances they don’t own. You will definitely find a tenant without installing a dishwasher.

I did find it surprising that it would only cost €2.40 a month to run it daily though. That is good if it’s the right figure. Depends on a number of variables I’m sure.

04-08-2018 3:42am

100% necessary imo, I wouldn’t rent a place that didn’t have one it’s a complete necessity as I have no desire or inclination whatsoever to have to wash up by hand. I’d gar prefer a dishwasher than an extra cupboard contrary to a few other posters. You can use the dishwasher as a cupboard anyway.

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

#meToo.

I haven't lived with one since 1994.

Dishwashers are for lazy feckers who don't want to clean up after themselves.

Don't get one and you get a better class of tenant.

This post is in with a shout of winning the “biggest load of nonsense ever posted on boards” award that’s for sure.

Noo · 04-08-2018 7:55am

Essential. My boyfriend and I rented a place for about two years that didn't have one, talk about an absolute pain in the arse. A dishwasher was no.1 on our priority list when looking for a new place, or even just the connections for dishwasher so we could buy our own.

RocketRaccoon · 04-08-2018 8:03am

This thread hurts my brain. It's very very simple to live without a dishwasher, just don't be a lazy <mod snip> and take 5-10 minutes in the evening to wash the dishes at the sink.

We're a family of 4, myself and my wife both work 40+ hours a week so I don't buy for a second that they are essential for a family.

awec · 04-08-2018 12:22pm

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

This thread hurts my brain. It's very very simple to live without a dishwasher, just don't be a lazy bastard and take 5-10 minutes in the evening to wash the dishes at the sink.

We're a family of 4, myself and my wife both work 40+ hours a week so I don't buy for a second that they are essential for a family.

Well of course, if you're willing to put the effort in you could live without anything. If you were willing to walk everywhere you could live without your car etc etc.

But dishwashers are cheap, incredibly convenient and save on the mundane task of washing dishes so people can do more interesting things with their life. They will also, invariably, do a better job with the dishes than dishes washed in a sink (especially glassware). It is unsurprising that they are considered essential in 2018.

Gumbo · 04-08-2018 12:30pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

#meToo.

I haven't lived with one since 1994.

Dishwashers are for lazy feckers who don't want to clean up after themselves.

Don't get one and you get a better class of tenant.

Nonsense. Dishwasher’s and class of tenants are so far apart from been connected.

I think it’s clear from this thread that it’s a personal choice. It’s not essential but it sure helps with everyday life. Washing machines are not essential, clothes can be washed by hand also, but they sure do help.

Freezers are not essential, same goes for tv, internet, kettles and toasters. None are essential but they sure help out with everyday life.

Everybody to their own so don’t get upset if another poster doesn’t need one but don’t attack the loser because of their choice of what appliances they deem necessary.

04-08-2018 1:02pm

awec wrote: »

Well of course, if you're willing to put the effort in you could live without anything. If you were willing to walk everywhere you could live without your car etc etc.

But dishwashers are cheap, incredibly convenient and save on the mundane task of washing dishes so people can do more interesting things with their life. They will also, invariably, do a better job with the dishes than dishes washed in a sink (especially glassware). It is unsurprising that they are considered essential in 2018.

Exactly, if your are happy to waste time doing tasks like that fire away but I’ve no interest.

I wouldn’t be without a cleaner coming into clean the house either, I’m sure some would say its a waste but to me it’s some of the best value for money I get never having to hover, dust or wash floors etc is well worth the money and the time and effort saved too.

Dishwasher necessary?

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