Latest poachers caught in the act?

seoirse1980 · 02-02-2011 1:44pm #1

Anybody know the full story with the lads that drove from the rathdrum direction to clane last week? They allegedly had 31 deer in an open trailer , which also contained two stags. They drove by a ranger and when they arrived at the game dealer there was a ranger waiting for them and were questioned etc???:eek:

bazza888 · 02-02-2011 2:04pm

thats nuts,i dont shoot deer but i cant understand how they can get away with bringing 31 deer in if its true,if you have a sec42 does that mean if theres 30deer on a farmers land you could shoot them all in the one night legally?game dealers paying money makes it to tempting for greedy people to go overboard killing everything in sight.

landkeeper · 02-02-2011 2:20pm

sounds more like npws rangers doing a cull i would have thought

Tackleberrywho · 02-02-2011 2:21pm

seoirse1980 wrote: »

Anybody know the full story with the lads that drove from the rathdrum direction to clan last week? They allegedly had 31 deer in an open trailer , which also contained two stags. Drove by a ranger and when they arrived at the game dealer they were questioned etc???:eek:

Must have been a big trailer, 3-4 deer is most car trailers, did the trailer have creels?

Must have been a turf trailer :rolleyes:

bazza888 · 02-02-2011 2:51pm

yeah tack come to think of it the animal carcass disposal people were about the other day he had a small lorry with a tipper it was pretty full with 3cows and a pony in it!he needed a winch to get the pony in as it had go on top of the cows,31 deer would be a fair stack!

seoirse1980 · 02-02-2011 2:52pm

I believe the trailer was about 12 feet long. The rangers were waiting for them when they arrived at the dealers. There was a bit of a backlog while they lined up the carcasses and photographed and processed them. The lads who brought them in were stood against a wall looking very sorry for themselves.

Glensman · 02-02-2011 2:54pm

Delighted if it's true.
I despise poachers.

Surely you have to give some ID or documentation to game dealers for traceability?

seoirse1980 · 02-02-2011 3:04pm

You would imagine so. I wonder have any of the cases this season in relation to poaching gone to court? I've heard of a few now.

clivej · 02-02-2011 3:06pm

I have read with interest many stories on boards.ie of poachers and game dealers
So what's the story can anyone just bring a deer to the game dealer and get
money for it? What do you have to show

seoirse1980 · 02-02-2011 3:09pm

You have to fill out a form. With your name, deer license number and sex of the animal and area that you shot the animal in. Well that's in Glenmalure anyway.

stick shooter · 02-02-2011 3:09pm

Just your licence

stick shooter · 02-02-2011 3:14pm

seoirse1980 wrote: »

You have to fill out a form. With your name, deer license number and sex of the animal and area that you shot the animal in. Well that's in Glenmalure anyway.

Bad part not all game dealers look for them details. I no a friend of mine droped in a deer to a certon game dealer (one which was surplice to requirement ) and he was shocked ,Never asked for a deer licence or even did he have the correct calibre .

J. Ramone · 02-02-2011 3:15pm

If they hadn't been spotted the ranger, would the delivery have been accepted and processed through the books without any questions or reporting? With 31 animals it would be unlikely that this was the first suspicious delivery. Game dealers to some extent must rely on supply from honest sources. Personally, I'd want some assurance that I am supplying to an honest broker before I would supply a carcass.

ballistic · 02-02-2011 3:15pm

From what I hear there was a major player (150 -200 animals a season) in the wicklow area caught.
Thankfully the powers that be seem to be more successful lately.
Poachers are ruining our sport. Deer numbers in wicklow have taken a serious decline. You will see a system yet where you will be given 5 tags at the start of the season and that will be it. Some believe that numbers will never recover.

How long will these poachers be put out of action for?

Will they be given a hunting licence in 2 years time?

seoirse1980 · 02-02-2011 3:18pm

Well I still have yet to hear of one prosecution apart from the case in Kerry. I think last year or the one before.

J. Ramone · 02-02-2011 3:22pm

ballistic wrote: »

Will they be given a hunting licence in 2 years time?

No, from what I hear it's four. That's with a suspended prison sentence for a wildlife offence.

ballistic · 02-02-2011 3:23pm

seoirse1980 wrote: »

Well I still have yet to hear of one prosecution apart from the case in Kerry. I think last year or the one before.

I heard of a recent one in wicklow 2000 euro and loss of firearm dont no will the poacher be allowed to get a licence in the future though. There are a good few being caught.

clivej · 02-02-2011 3:27pm

J. Ramone wrote: »

No, from what I hear it's four. That's with a suspended prison sentence for a wildlife offence.

Is it classed as a criminal offence if yes then can you get a license with a criminal record against you?

natdog · 02-02-2011 3:30pm

ballistic wrote: »

From what I hear there was a major player (150 -200 animals a season) in the wicklow area caught.

lads I think we should be talking about more facts than just rumours you have 180 days in the season so that would be a Deer every nite of the season seems a bit high to me and I would be suprised if a poacher would be stupid enough turn up with that amount of deer in a trailer I could be wrong.

J. Ramone · 02-02-2011 3:31pm

clivej wrote: »

Is it classed as a criminal offence if yes then can you get a license with a criminal record against you?

Seemingly so. This case involved killing and theft of pheasants from a release pen belonging to a parish gun club.

fish slapped · 02-02-2011 3:33pm

Heard about that, seemingly when the ranger checked the abbaitoirs books they sold 398 deer since sept.!!!!:eek:

J. Ramone · 02-02-2011 3:38pm

fish slapped wrote: »

Heard about that, seemingly when the ranger checked the abbaitoirs books they sold 398 deer since sept.!!!!:eek:

Unless weigh and pay, that would be a very big cheque at the end of the season. The accounting records would highlight such excessive numbers on one licence.

Grizzly 45 · 02-02-2011 3:42pm

Depends again on the conviction.Somthing carrying jail time no doubt pretty hard to apply.With serious money fines,proably.Only way to shut somthing down like this is very hard financial hits in their pockets and loss of equipment,jeeps,firearms etc. Hit the game dealers as well,in to the point that they are barred from dealing game for ten years.It would soon make this unworthwhile.

12 ft long trailer..Hmm They would have to have butcherd and halved the animals already to get that many into somthing that size.If you compare the local butcher's delivery truck .

Going by the story of the 1st post
Sounds like they ran into a sting operation..Good stuff from the NPWS if they did it like that.:) Tailed,and right into a reception comittee!!:D
Feckin Muppett wanna be poachers!!If that is the quality of "poachers " here the NPWS will have no trouble hauling the lot in like that.
Wonder will it be in the papers?

terminator2 · 02-02-2011 4:20pm

excuse my ignorance,i know nothing about deer shooting but how many beasts are you allowed to cull legally in a season

It wasn't me! · 02-02-2011 4:35pm

terminator2 wrote: »

excuse my ignorance,i know nothing about deer shooting but how many beasts are you allowed to cull legally in a season

There isn't a legal limit.

clivej · 02-02-2011 4:37pm

terminator2 wrote: »

excuse my ignorance,i know nothing about deer shooting but how many beasts are you allowed to cull legally in a season

As many as is on the quota for the land as given out by the department.

terminator2 · 02-02-2011 4:38pm

so these boys could escape prosecution on a technicality,would i be right in saying that

It wasn't me! · 02-02-2011 4:39pm

terminator2 wrote: »

so these boys could escape prosecution on a technicality,would i be right in saying that

Nope, shot the stags out of season if that part of the report is true.

ballistic · 02-02-2011 4:46pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Depends again on the conviction.Somthing carrying jail time no doubt pretty hard to apply.With serious money fines,proably.Only way to shut somthing down like this is very hard financial hits in their pockets and loss of equipment,jeeps,firearms etc. Hit the game dealers as well,in to the point that they are barred from dealing game for ten years.It would soon make this unworthwhile.

12 ft long trailer..Hmm They would have to have butcherd and halved the animals already to get that many into somthing that size.If you compare the local butcher's delivery truck .

Going by the story of the 1st post
Sounds like they ran into a sting operation..Good stuff from the NPWS if they did it like that.:) Tailed,and right into a reception comittee!!:D
Feckin Muppett wanna be poachers!!If that is the quality of "poachers " here the NPWS will have no trouble hauling the lot in like that.
Wonder will it be in the papers?

Poachers are making a living out of deer. They are not thick just brazen. Woods were poached on christmas night this year! We are not talking about guys bagging one for the table (not condoning that either) its a commercial operation that suplements the dol. They are going to ruin our sport.

243 SbS · 02-02-2011 4:58pm

Have the revenue commissioners shown any interest in these guys making money from shooting (legally and illegally) and selling on deer to game dealers.

Tackleberrywho · 02-02-2011 5:20pm

terminator2 wrote: »

excuse my ignorance,i know nothing about deer shooting but how many beasts are you allowed to cull legally in a season

Technically on private land there is no limit.
However the licence has to be applied for every year; so If you shoot 15 out of a herd of 20 one year it may be unlikely you get a licence teh next year.

There are different rules for a lease as it's al about making profit (No matter what anyone says)

They want you to shoot feck all on a lease otherwise they can't rent it out again the following year.

The Buck stops with the Game Dealers, If poachers had no outlet then they would not do it.
Simples

GixxerThou · 02-02-2011 5:48pm

ballistic wrote: »

From what I hear there was a major player (150 -200 animals a season) in the wicklow area caught.
Thankfully the powers that be seem to be more successful lately.
Poachers are ruining our sport. Deer numbers in wicklow have taken a serious decline. You will see a system yet where you will be given 5 tags at the start of the season and that will be it. Some believe that numbers will never recover.

How long will these poachers be put out of action for?

Will they be given a hunting licence in 2 years time?

They will not get licences again, I hear neither of them had licences anyway, lost them already.

Deerspotter · 02-02-2011 6:09pm

How can they sell to a game-dealer if they have no licence?
I thought you had to have one?

cavan shooter · 02-02-2011 6:14pm

I wonder how many Poachers have the section 42 etc. I know two at least up my way that in the day time are legitimate stalkers, but can change readily at night.;)

Spunk84 · 02-02-2011 6:32pm

and would there be big money in shooting all these deer? is it sold per pound? they must be making money on them as the result on them being caught is either jail or fine. Found it odd that a trailer held all those deers:eek: actual really odd

they must of had them stacked sky high, with a tarp or something. Making a quick buck now but next season or the season after will suffer a great deal indeed

terminator2 · 02-02-2011 6:42pm

ive never even tasted venison ......anyone got a spare piece;)

ballistic · 02-02-2011 6:44pm

Spunk84 wrote: »

and would there be big money in shooting all these deer? is it sold per pound? they must be making money on them as the result on them being caught is either jail or fine. Found it odd that a trailer held all those deers:eek: actual really odd they must of had them stacked sky high, with a tarp or something. Making a quick buck now but next season or the season after will suffer a great deal indeed

A sikka hind is a small animal. I believe you would fit that many in a trailer easily. Deer makes about 1.80 a kg and a typical hind will weigh in at 25 kg a stag at around 30-35kg. Thats without pluck and hocks but including head and skin. These guys will head shoot almost 100% of their animals as its easy to do at 30 yards under a lamp. So 1.8 times 30 times 200 (per year) = 10800 a year plus social welfare. Think I will go at it:D.
This is not to mention future loss of earnings to coillte, and the tourist stalking industry and my 1000 euro I wasted on a letting that that the ****e was shot out of all summer. The animals in this case were sold to a game dealer as the poacher had a section 42 on another piece of ground.

jap gt · 02-02-2011 6:45pm

terminator2 wrote: »

ive never even tasted venison ......anyone got a spare piece;)

+1 never tasted it

Grizzly 45 · 02-02-2011 7:14pm

ballistic wrote: »

Poachers are making a living out of deer. They are not thick just brazen. Woods were poached on christmas night this year! We are not talking about guys bagging one for the table (not condoning that either) its a commercial operation that suplements the dol. They are going to ruin our sport.

Well that in my books ...brazen equals extreme thickness!!
Thick to think you will get away with it for so long,and keep wiping everyones face in it. Thick to pitch up at your local "fence" aka dodgy game dealer without checking out whats going on.Especially THICK to even let anyone ,not to mind the whole countryside know you are a poacher,on this scale and to be caught with all the evidence to hand.
and to do it for money as well.

While not condonable,the lad taking one for the pot is the least of our worries and the least damage to either stock or sport.

So it is really simple to sort out.More sting operations like these will smash these operations.More people convicted and fined and losing their liscenses and equipment and publshized the better.

Birdnuts · 02-02-2011 7:22pm

jap gt wrote: »

+1 never tasted it

You haven't lived M8;) - its the best part of a hunters grill:)

Spunk84 · 02-02-2011 7:23pm

ballistic wrote: »

A sikka hind is a small animal. I believe you would fit that many in a trailer easily. Deer makes about 1.80 a kg and a typical hind will weigh in at 25 kg a stag at around 30-35kg. Thats without pluck and hocks but including head and skin. These guys will head shoot almost 100% of their animals as its easy to do at 30 yards under a lamp. So 1.8 times 30 times 200 (per year) = 10800 a year plus social welfare. Think I will go at it:D.
This is not to mention future loss of earnings to coillte, and the tourist stalking industry and my 1000 euro I wasted on a letting that that the ****e was shot out of all summer. The animals in this case were sold to a game dealer as the poacher had a section 42 on another piece of ground.

wow very profitable but seriously ruining the sport for others. Pity they couldn't get the Garda actual off their back sides in rural settings to do more sting operations and get these people off the lands. Someone is seriously going to get hurt someday whether walking a dog or shooting, i hope it doesnt take that to realize it, something has to be done

It wasn't me! · 02-02-2011 7:54pm

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

They want you to shoot feck all on a lease otherwise they can't rent it out again the following year.

I know of leases lads were told to shoot as hard as possible to get numbers down. You really have a chip on your shoulder, but you don't have all the information at all.

jellybaby21 · 02-02-2011 7:56pm

natdog wrote: »

lads I think we should be talking about more facts than just rumours you have 180 days in the season so that would be a Deer every nite of the season seems a bit high to me and I would be suprised if a poacher would be stupid enough turn up with that amount of deer in a trailer I could be wrong.

I wouldnt think thats to high at all. I know of a lad that has a fridge unit out his back that can hold up to 40 deer and is making a living shooting them.You talk about a deer a night I know of another lad that shot 5 in a night and came back for them the next day.But im happy to say the farmer ran him and told him never to come back.Now to the lads that got caught I heard it was 16 deer they had not 31 but I dont know the full story either.I hear they had a key to the forestry and came and went whenever they wanted.

jap gt · 02-02-2011 8:13pm

Birdnuts wrote: »

You haven't lived M8;) - its the best part of a hunters grill:)

so iv heard, only one local that i know of that stalks and he is a tool, hopefully in the next year or so i will have the funds to get into it

seoirse1980 · 02-02-2011 10:15pm

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

They want you to shoot feck all on a lease otherwise they can't rent it out again the following year.

I can only speak from my experience. I took a lease this year for the first time. It was in a large forest in wicklow with plenty of deer. Which was one of the reasons i took it , as I wanted a good seasons shooting as last year was terrible on my private leases due to poaching. I was told that I could come as often as I liked but in the first month I shot 4 deer and was told to "calm it down a bit"!

My deer shooting barely covers my diesel, I do it for the sport and as part of an overall cull plan. It's rediculous to have lads in to cull deer, give them a fistfull of deer for the season, take they're money and have lads poach the life out of the same wood at night fall.

On a safety point I went out for an evening stalk the other evening. I was at the edge of a wood and no more than 200 yards from me a shot rang out. I retreated the opposite way to in case he went for a follow up shot. I didn't lay eyes on him as he was gone before I circled around. If I catch him again I'll sit on him until the Gards come!!

newby.204 · 02-02-2011 10:28pm

seoirse1980 wrote: »

I can only speak from my experience. I took a lease this year for the first time. It was in a large forest in wicklow with plenty of deer. Which was one of the reasons i took it , as I wanted a good seasons shooting as last year was terrible on my private leases due to poaching. I was told that I could come as often as I liked but in the first month I shot 4 deer and was told to "calm it down a bit"!

My deer shooting barely covers my diesel, I do it for the sport and as part of an overall cull plan. It's rediculous to have lads in to cull deer, give them a fistfull of deer for the season, take they're money and have lads poach the life out of the same wood at night fall.

On a safety point I went out for an evening stalk the other evening. I was at the edge of a wood and no more than 200 yards from me a shot rang out. I retreated the opposite way to in case he went for a follow up shot. I didn't lay eyes on him as he was gone before I circled around. If I catch him again I'll sit on him until the Gards come!!

re:bold
without wanting to sound melodramatic this may not be the best course of action if A) you mean literally sit on him you would probably have to assault him first and he may be likely to fight back or possibly use his firearm against you afterall hes there illegally in the first place, and chances are you'd get time before he would for assaulting him
if

you mean keep an eye on him till the guards arrive, your in rural wicklow i assume, they would take ages you would probably have to follow him which i have said previously may risk you being shot at by this particular 4rs3hol3!!!

if you could just get his reg plate without risking yourself and report it, let plod take it from there

just my 2 cents, whilst i appreciate it must be infuriating to be doing things by the book and some amadain is taking your meat off your plate!!!

Vizzy · 02-02-2011 10:39pm

Don't take this the wrong way lads !!
I have never shot deer and at this stage don't know if I ever will.
Here's the scenario;
I walk up the woods at 11pm with my .243 ( or worse a .223 or .22lr)
Spot a few deer and drop 1.
Pop the deer in the boot of the jeep.
On the way home I'm stopped by the Warden/Gardai who cop the deer in the back.:eek:
I tell them that "I found the deer on the side of the road and it looked like somebody must have shot it"
"I was out shooting foxes for my local farmer,Guard,honest.":o

What happens,am I prosecuted,do I lose my licence or do I get to keep the deer?
Just a poser to get ye thinking !!

kakashka · 02-02-2011 10:50pm

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

They want you to shoot feck all on a lease otherwise they can't rent it out again the following year.

Or Bag a nice head for themselves /clients

The Buck stops with the Game Dealers, If poachers had no outlet then they would not do it.
Simples

Agree 100%

One shot on kill · 02-02-2011 11:01pm

newby.204 wrote: »

re:bold
without wanting to sound melodramatic this may not be the best course of action if A) you mean literally sit on him you would probably have to assault him first and he may be likely to fight back or possibly use his firearm against you afterall hes there illegally in the first place, and chances are you'd get time before he would for assaulting him
if you mean keep an eye on him till the guards arrive, your in rural wicklow i assume, they would take ages you would probably have to follow him which i have said previously may risk you being shot at by this particular 4rs3hol3!!!
if you could just get his reg plate without risking yourself and report it, let plod take it from there
just my 2 cents, whilst i appreciate it must be infuriating to be doing things by the book and some amadain is taking your meat off your plate!!!

i think he means he will do what ever and as much as he can to make sure there caught. and he is dead right it will only ruin the sport as it. has been said already.

i myself if i knew where they were parked would slash there tyres and ring the warden he would be straight out that way they cant go anywhere to fast and they would be caught red handed

clivej · 02-02-2011 11:12pm

Vizzy wrote: »

Don't take this the wrong way lads !!
I have never shot deer and at this stage don't know if I ever will.
Here's the scenario;
I walk up the woods at 11pm with my .243 ( or worse a .223 or .22lr)
Spot a few deer and drop 1.
Pop the deer in the boot of the jeep.
On the way home I'm stopped by the Warden/Gardai who cop the deer in the back.:eek:
I tell them that "I found the deer on the side of the road and it looked like somebody must have shot it"
"I was out shooting foxes for my local farmer,Guard,honest.":o

What happens,am I prosecuted,do I lose my licence or do I get to keep the deer?
Just a poser to get ye thinking !!

They have that covered
It is illegal to have road kill in your possession

seoirse1980 · 02-02-2011 11:15pm

@~~@ fella, he's an awful poacher altogether, we'll have a word"

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