Animals are here for us to kill, eat..

fergus1001 · 07-07-2019 8:37am

"Vegans are wrong"

Change my mind

gozunda · 07-07-2019 9:39am

fergus1001 wrote: »

"Vegans are wrong"

Change my mind

Ah now we already had that on another thread ...

jackboy · 07-07-2019 9:59am

Blaizes wrote: »

We don’t or at least didn’t educate children ( from primary school level upwards ) enough about the eco system and wildlife. How many kids could name ten or fifteen birds or name wildlife particular to Ireland? Few I’d say.

Probably less than 10% children could identify more than 10 native Irish birds. How are these children expected to protect wildlife or the environment in the future. When it comes down to it, they won’t.

The saddest thing is that most young children are interested in learning about wildlife, if only they had someone to take them outside and show them. It’s not an urban vs rural thing either. I know many farmers that have no interest or respect for nature, who teach their children nothing.

Buford T. Justice XIX · 07-07-2019 10:32am

pheasant tail wrote: »

So Coillte released pine marten beside me, they eat pheasants, which are game, which people release for shooting, should they be vermin?

Deer beside me eat grass, should they be defined as vermin? How dare they eat grass like.

What about all our native predatory birds that are seemingly a threat to livestock, should they be classed as vermin? Why are they protected?

A game species such as salmon, dolphins and seals eat them. Should they be vermin? They eat our game species such as salmon. How dare they!!! Also, our native and protected otter eats our salmon and trout, should we cull them? If it suits us, like, why not..

What an amazing job we have done at culling badgers by the way, we are really winning that war on TB &#55357;&#56834;

So how do we class what is vermin and what is not?
Seems the class is very suited to our own selfish agenda to justify needless killing, maybe you can enlighten me though!

That would class them as vermin. It costs about 12c/kg to grow grass and a mature deer could eat up to 10kg grass/day. Now, that eaten grass has to be replaced with purchase feed at approx 30c/kg so that will have to be paid for as well.

When you have your own grass, you can do what you wish with it but my grass is there for my stock. If you want deer eating my grass then pay the replacement cost of that grass.

gozunda · 07-07-2019 11:48am

jackboy wrote: »

Probably less than 10% children could identify more than 10 native Irish birds. How are these children expected to protect wildlife or the environment in the future. When it comes down to it, they won’t.

The saddest thing is that most young children are interested in learning about wildlife, if only they had someone to take them outside and show them. It’s not an urban vs rural thing either.
I know many farmers that have no interest or respect for nature, who teach their children nothing.

I wouldn't agree there tbh. Of the kids from farming families I know most would have an interest in wildlife. When you grow up surrounded by fields and trees - it's hard not to absorb and be interested in those things. The kids may not be experts but the ones I know could tell you more about trees, vegetation and the more common wild animals compared to some of their counterparths in urban areas.

rob316 · 07-07-2019 11:49am

There's a food chain respect it. Vegans are the by product of an increasingly whingey and PC society.

jackboy · 07-07-2019 12:21pm

gozunda wrote: »

I wouldn't agree there tbh. Of the kids from farming families I know most would have an interest in wildlife. When you grow up surrounded by fields and trees - it's hard not to absorb and be interested in those things. The kids may not be experts but the ones I know could tell you more about trees, vegetation and the more common wild animals compared to some of their counterparths in urban areas.

As far as I can see it is more related to the size of the farm. The bigger farms are little more than green deserts where every last square meter is utilized. The smaller farms operated by part time or hobby farmers are more of a haven for wildlife. Hard to blame the big farmers though, most of them are very busy trying to keep the business going.

rob316 · 07-07-2019 1:03pm

gozunda wrote: »

I wouldn't agree there tbh. Of the kids from farming families I know most would have an interest in wildlife. When you grow up surrounded by fields and trees - it's hard not to absorb and be interested in those things. The kids may not be experts but the ones I know could tell you more about trees, vegetation and the more common wild animals compared to some of their counterparths in urban areas.

Nah half my family are farmers and all they care about are tractors and the milk quota

Buford T. Justice XIX · 07-07-2019 1:17pm

jackboy wrote: »

As far as I can see it is more related to the size of the farm. The bigger farms are little more than green deserts where every last square meter is utilized. The smaller farms operated by part time or hobby farmers are more of a haven for wildlife. Hard to blame the big farmers though, most of them are very busy trying to keep the business going.

That's because if there is any encroachment into the fields by hedges or any covers of non agricultural species in any fields, the farmers are fined for allowing that natural cover to grow.

But get this! They will allow you to grow artificial 'natural' covers and pay you for them but only on designated areas.

You couldn't make this stuff up:rolleyes:

Uncharted · 07-07-2019 1:25pm

rob316 wrote: »

There's a food chain respect it. Vegans are the by product of an increasingly whingey and PC society.

This x 1000.

It's like Chris Rock said ...... We've so much fcukin food on the planet,people can choose what to be ' allergic ' to :pac:

I'll bet nobody in Sierra Leone is lactose intolerant.

auspicious · 07-07-2019 2:05pm

After 5 days and 26 pages of replies I'm sure the OP has had some questions answered by now. Even though much of it has not been addressed and we'll ignore the contradiction in it, does the OP care to share her current knowledge as to why people think 'animals' have feelings?

Greyfox · 07-07-2019 2:26pm

Uncharted wrote: »

It's like Chris Rock said ...... We've so much fcukin food on the planet,people can choose what to be ' allergic ' to :pac:

That's due to the western world producing far more food than it needs. Plenty of those chickens that have a crap life before there death end up in the bin anyway.

gozunda · 07-07-2019 3:51pm

rob316 wrote: »

Nah half my family are farmers and all they care about are tractors and the milk quota

All the kids care about 'milk quotas'? Really never knew that. You do knew that the old quota system is gone yeah? I think you might be imagining things there tbh ...

dodderangler · 10-07-2019 9:26am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You can’t 100% guarantee anything.

By claiming you can you’re sounding like one of those Americans you’re talking about.

‘I won’t shoot unless it’s going to die on the spot’

Nostradamus is it ?

‘And they always drop’

John Rambo is it ?

I can guarantee it. I’ve been shooting since childhood. I learned from my mistakes at a young age and was brought up proper in hunting. I won’t shoot unless it’s safe and guarantee to be a kill shot.
Now if you can’t understand that then that’s your problem not mine

Seanachai · 10-07-2019 9:56am

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

That's because if there is any encroachment into the fields by hedges or any covers of non agricultural species in any fields, the farmers are fined for allowing that natural cover to grow.

But get this! They will allow you to grow artificial 'natural' covers and pay you for them but only on designated areas.

You couldn't make this stuff up:rolleyes:

Is this EU regulations?

Buford T. Justice XIX · 10-07-2019 10:04am

Seanachai wrote: »

Is this EU regulations?

Yeah, or at least, the Irish interpretation of those regulations.

Graces7 · 10-07-2019 1:01pm

n97 mini wrote: »

Haven't read the thread, but I find it ironic that many vegans own cats as pets. Cats are obligate carnivores and cannot survive on a meat free diet (ideally their diet is 100% meat).

Realistically vegans should be also campaigning for the end of cats.

why ironic? I am not vegan but . I had a discussion with a sweet vegan lady at the cat food shelves; we love our cats and they are not vegan etc. So they get what they need; period, as our love for them means we care for them.

Nothing ironic and why should vegans campaign like that? They may speak against animals as pets but not to end them!

Former Observer · 10-07-2019 1:41pm

rob316 wrote: »

There's a food chain respect it.

I very much hope you do. By buying ethically sourced meat. Chances are you're just another low IQ hot chicken roll guzzler. Probably estrogen dominant from all the hormones and antibiotics in the factory farmed meat you consume.

gozunda · 10-07-2019 1:48pm

Former Observer wrote: »

I very much hope you do. By buying ethically sourced meat. Chances are you're just another low IQ hot chicken roll guzzler. Probably estrogen dominant from all the hormones and antibiotics in the factory farmed meat you consume.

You do know that hormones have been banned for many years here yeah and antibiotic use in animal husbandry is strictly regulated and used for medical purposes only when required?

But hey more bs - what new?

To parody that - 'probably growing man boobs and getting dementia from all that soya crap that you eat' or something ...

jim o doom · 10-07-2019 1:59pm

Former Observer wrote: »

I very much hope you do. By buying ethically sourced meat. Chances are you're just another low IQ hot chicken roll guzzler. Probably estrogen dominant from all the hormones and antibiotics in the factory farmed meat you consume.

I love triggered vegans. Nothing makes me smile more, thanks for making my day

:pac:

weldoninhio · 10-07-2019 2:11pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Just to probe that line of thinking for the fun of it. Could Human Slavery be justified - or at least made less unjustifiable - if the slaves in question were bred under the right conditions?

To use your words as much as possible to word this: If they were bred entirely in captivity - exclusively for the slave industry - and as products - then by the reasoning you offer above they are products and not "wild sentient" and free. So it would be ok? Or at least not as bad? For them to be slaves.

Not sure this line of reasoning works for me. Their level of rights and freedoms should be based on who/what they are - not their pedigree, lineage, or breeding conditions.

Rights and Freedoms are man made concepts to keep the proletariat in their place and stop then from killing each other. It does not apply to animals.

Former Observer · 10-07-2019 3:10pm

gozunda wrote: »

You do know that hormones have been banned for many years here yeah and antibiotic use in animal husbandry is strictly regulated and used for medical purposes only when required?

I'm not a vegan. And I see you didn't address my point about ethics. That doesn't surprise me, because most of the reactionary anti-vegan cretins on this site and elsewhere are just shallow losers without the moral courage or discipline to find or eat ethically farmed meat. Get back to your half eaten three euro spicy chicken roll with bacon fat boy.

Also, I've worked in a meat packing plant and been involved in animal slaughter, whilst let's face it, your formative life experiences consist of repeated trips to the deli counter in your local Supervalu.

I'm laughing at the idea you think you even know where your meat is coming from. :rolleyes:

gozunda · 10-07-2019 3:50pm

Former Observer wrote: »

I'm not a vegan. And I see you didn't address my point about ethics. That doesn't surprise me, because most of the reactionary anti-vegan cretins on this site and elsewhere are just shallow losers without the moral courage or discipline to find or eat ethically farmed meat. Get back to your half eaten three euro spicy chicken roll with bacon fat boy .Also, I've worked in a meat packing plant and been involved in animal slaughter, whilst let's face it, your formative life experiences consist of repeated trips to the deli counter in your local Supervalu. I'm laughing at the idea you think you even know where your meat is coming from. :rolleyes:

Didnt say you were - the soya thing was a parody of your last comment btw. Dont give a donkies about your take on 'ethics' or otherwise considering the crap written about 'hormones' etc

But no I dont like misinformation. Anyway always love the a small number of plant advocates that get all personal and throw ad-hominmens around like they dont have a decent argument to offer. But yes indeed - I am involved with food production, and I know where exactly where my meat is coming from - so I can spot crap like the often repeat bull****e about "hormones and antibiotics" repeated like diarrhoea. Same **** - different thread.

But hey what's new lol

Thelonious Monk · 10-07-2019 4:02pm

jim o doom wrote: »

I love triggered vegans. Nothing makes me smile more, thanks for making my day :pac:

All these threads are started by non vegans who feel insecure about the very existence of vegans for some reason

Graces7 · 11-07-2019 6:51am

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

All these threads are started by non vegans who feel insecure about the very existence of vegans for some reason

Oh so true!.

GreeBo · 11-07-2019 6:40pm

dodderangler wrote: »

I can guarantee it. I’ve been shooting since childhood. I learned from my mistakes at a young age and was brought up proper in hunting. I won’t shoot unless it’s safe and guarantee to be a kill shot.
Now if you can’t understand that then that’s your problem not mine

The Irish Olympic Shooting team doesn't know what its missing.

Dakota Dan · 11-07-2019 8:39pm

StinkyMunkey wrote: »

The first rule of being a vegan, is letting everyone know your a vegan.

Each to their own I say.

The second rule is treat all animals as if they are human. If a cat kills a mouse he should be arrested for murder in their deluded minds.

Dakota Dan · 11-07-2019 8:43pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I'm pretty sure 30% or so of India is vegetarian. The planet would be a better place if we all ate less meat. The seas are almost out of fish too.

Did you ever hear of fishing quotas that have been around for years they were brought in to prevent over dissing and there are still plenty fish in the sea.

Thelonious Monk · 11-07-2019 8:50pm

Dakota Dan wrote: »

Did you ever hear of fishing quotas that have been around for years they were brought in to prevent over dissing and there are still plenty fish in the sea.

Yeah the quotas aren't strict enough

11-07-2019 9:48pm

dodderangler wrote: »

I can guarantee it. I’ve been shooting since childhood. I learned from my mistakes at a young age and was brought up proper in hunting. I won’t shoot unless it’s safe and guarantee to be a kill shot.
Now if you can’t understand that then that’s your problem not mine

If I can’t understand you’re some sort of fictional robotic character capable of the above ?

Well I’m afraid I don’t believe that.

And if you’re human then I also don’t believe the above.

igCorcaigh · 11-07-2019 9:52pm

Dakota Dan wrote: »

The second rule is treat all animals as if they are human. If a cat kills a mouse he should be arrested for murder in their deluded minds.

You just made that up.

Zillah · 11-07-2019 9:58pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

All these threads are started by non vegans who feel insecure about the very existence of vegans for some reason

I hear smug blowhards complaining about pushy vegans one hundred times as often as I encounter pushy vegans. Every vegan I have met in person has been a lovely person, and every single person I have met who felt the need to complain about vegans has been unbearable.

gozunda · 12-07-2019 12:41am

Zillah wrote: »

I hear smug blowhards complaining about pushy vegans one hundred times as often as I encounter pushy vegans.

Every vegan I have met in person has been a lovely person, and every single person I have met who felt the need to complain about vegans has been unbearable.

Not really a realistic viewpoint is it tbh? Humans are humans - there's all types of eejits in every walk of life

This from a previous posters comment which I think about covers it ...

I’ve a problem with extremist vegan groups, your average vegan is of no interest to me, they’re just doing their own thing which is what we all have a right to do without abuse or ridicule or anybody trying to take our choices away from us.

The OP explained that they were been baraged on social media - hence the thread. They don't come across as a 'smug blowhard' (sic) by any means imo.

I don't believe the OP was referring to the 'average ' person here tbh and that's the point. Suggesting that any criticism somehow makes a person 'unbearable' is daft. It also seems to suggest that no matter what - no criticism is permitted else the risk being labelled and accused of being "smug blowhards" or words to that effect...

Graces7 · 12-07-2019 6:25am

Dakota Dan wrote: »

Did you ever hear of fishing quotas that have been around for years they were brought in to prevent over dissing and there are still plenty fish in the sea.

Nope

https://www.breakingnews.ie/discover/chippy-closes-after-deciding-theres-not-plenty-more-fish-in-the-sea-935727.html

dodderangler · 12-07-2019 10:02am

Former Observer wrote: »

I'm not a vegan. And I see you didn't address my point about ethics. That doesn't surprise me, because most of the reactionary anti-vegan cretins on this site and elsewhere are just shallow losers without the moral courage or discipline to find or eat ethically farmed meat. Get back to your half eaten three euro spicy chicken roll with bacon fat boy.

Also, I've worked in a meat packing plant and been involved in animal slaughter, whilst let's face it, your formative life experiences consist of repeated trips to the deli counter in your local Supervalu.

I'm laughing at the idea you think you even know where your meat is coming from. :rolleyes:

My meat comes straight from the field because I’m the one pulling the trigger as it’s about to eat it’s last meal.
Try again princess

12-07-2019 10:05am

John Rambo everyone. John Rambo.

Chiparus · 12-07-2019 10:05am

Far more animals are killed to produce vegan food, but we dont talk about that.

dodderangler · 12-07-2019 10:07am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If I can’t understand you’re some sort of fictional robotic character capable of the above ?

Well I’m afraid I don’t believe that.

And if you’re human then I also don’t believe the above.

No point in being jealous. I don’t miss. Simple as that. Because I find myself rarely able to take the shot unless it’s safe or definite kill. Like every respectful hunter you don’t shoot unless it’s on.
Aim small miss small

Thelonious Monk · 12-07-2019 10:08am

Chiparus wrote: »

Far more animals are killed to produce vegan food, but we dont talk about that.

Like the soy that is imported to feed cows?

12-07-2019 10:09am

dodderangler wrote: »

No point in being jealous. I don’t miss. Simple as that. Because I find myself rarely able to take the shot unless it’s safe or definite kill. Like every respectful hunter you don’t shoot unless it’s on.
Aim small miss small

Hunting. The game where no one misses.

An Ri rua · 12-07-2019 10:10am

dodderangler wrote: »

Former Observer wrote: »

I'm not a vegan. And I see you didn't address my point about ethics. That doesn't surprise me, because most of the reactionary anti-vegan cretins on this site and elsewhere are just shallow losers without the moral courage or discipline to find or eat ethically farmed meat. Get back to your half eaten three euro spicy chicken roll with bacon fat boy.

Also, I've worked in a meat packing plant and been involved in animal slaughter, whilst let's face it, your formative life experiences consist of repeated trips to the deli counter in your local Supervalu.

I'm laughing at the idea you think you even know where your meat is coming from. :rolleyes:

My meat comes straight from the field because I’m the one pulling the trigger as it’s about to eat it’s last meal.
Try again princess

The worms will have a field day with you. They're licking their lips, watching your every move.

weldoninhio · 12-07-2019 10:20am

Chiparus wrote: »

Far more animals are killed to produce vegan food, but we dont talk about that.

Yeah, but its not the cuddly animals.

Zillah · 12-07-2019 11:18am

Chiparus wrote: »

Far more animals are killed to produce vegan food, but we dont talk about that.

Well that is not true.

gozunda · 12-07-2019 11:47am

Just on what animals including beef cattle are fed in this country. Grazing and fodder make up the bulk of what is fed to cattle - over and above this is mostly supplementary type feed. Now for those getting wet thinking about all the 'grain and soy ' fed to cattle - the fact is the bulk of that is made up of by-products or waste from human food production..

This from the FAO.

The "study determines that 86% of livestock feed is not suitable for human consumption. If not consumed by livestock, crop residues and by-products could quickly become an environmental burden as the human population grows and consumes more and more processed food."

http://www.fao.org/ag/againfo/home/en/news_archive/2017_More_Fuel_for_the_Food_Feed.html

And that also goes for all that soy grown. The soy used in animal feed is largely derived from the primary processing of soy beans for soya oil. After the oil is extracted , what is left over is processed into animal feeds - this includes the outer shell of the soy bean called the husk and the pulp or 'meal' from which the oil has been extracted.

So there it is - all of the soy grown in south America for the primary extraction of soya oil of which afaik the processed food industry and China are the biggest users. If the left over meal wasnt been fed to cattle and other animals - they'd be most likely land spreading it as waste somewhere ...

Short version: Cattle eat grass. Humans cannot eat grass. This is good because grass grows exceptionally well in this country where many crops would struggle to grow commercially. Most of the rest of what cattle eat are the leftovers of the human food industry.

Thelonious Monk · 12-07-2019 11:58am

Also meat eaters eat vegan food too and cows eat vegan food.

Graces7 · 12-07-2019 12:27pm

Greyfox wrote: »

The reality is amazing people do care about all living things but most people are like myself in that they only care about what's close to them

Ultimitaly is comes down to the fact that meat tastes 100 times better than any vegetable and giving up meat after a lifetime of eating it is so so difficult

Not.. I stopped eating most meat because of the cost etc years ago after a long, long life of beef etc. Did not ever miss it and now yukk. Now good fresh vegetables are wonderful. I occasionally stray into a little bacon or chicken. maybe twice a week but never beef or lamb etc.

Dakota Dan · 12-07-2019 12:49pm

igCorcaigh wrote: »

You just made that up.

Did you ever hear vegans going on about murdering animals in slaughter houses? If not you might want to pull your head out of the clouds.

Dakota Dan · 12-07-2019 12:51pm

Zillah wrote: »

I hear smug blowhards complaining about pushy vegans one hundred times as often as I encounter pushy vegans. Every vegan I have met in person has been a lovely person, and every single person I have met who felt the need to complain about vegans has been unbearable.

Did you ever hear of Joey crabbrain and his followers? A lovely person for sure.

Thelonious Monk · 12-07-2019 12:53pm

Dakota Dan wrote: »

Did you ever hear of Joey crabbrain and his followers? A lovely person for sure.

Who on earth is that?

pheasant tail · 12-07-2019 1:09pm

dodderangler wrote: »

I can guarantee it. I’ve been shooting since childhood. I learned from my mistakes at a young age and was brought up proper in hunting. I won’t shoot unless it’s safe and guarantee to be a kill shot.
Now if you can’t understand that then that’s your problem not mine

This made me laugh. Would you quit. There is absolutely no way that anyone can guarantee a 100% kill shot off a moving animal with a shotgun. No matter how good you are. And I’m someone who use to do a lot of shooting.

Animals are here for us to kill, eat..

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