Now ye're talking - to an Irishman in China

Sabre0001 wrote: »

I'd have so many questions at the best of times, but with the recent news from that side of the world I'm going to barrage you with related questions! Sorry in advance

What were the early reports about Coronavirus like and how has the news/reporting of it changed?

Do people believe that the reporting of number of cases and/or deaths is accurate?

How surreal was Chinese New Year with this ongoing?

What's the general advice being offered in Chinese media and by the Government? Are you staying home or venturing out?

What is the attitude towards this outbreak - are people heeding warnings, are locals more wary than foreigners living in China, does the slightest cough cause panic or nervous laughter, do people think enough is being done to

What essentials did you stock up on? And what's the first thing that stores run out of in events like this (we've learned over the last few years that bread is the first thing to go at the first sign of snow/storms/other in Ireland)?

I started hearing reports about 2 weeks before Chinese New Year, but at time it just sounded like a local outbreak and I personally paid no attention to it, as did most people. Things started to sound a bit more serious in few days leading up to Chinese New Year, but again I think everyone thought it would just fizzle out.

While I don't necessarily believe that the government are intentionally (go figure), I do believe that there are far more people infected than the number quoted. Why the discrepancy? It seems that the hospitals in Wuhan are only admitting those with serious symptoms as that is all they can cope with. Are they testing every single person with symptoms? I highly doubt that. You've got to remember that in a city that size there are going to be tens of thousands of people every week who are sick with illnesses that are NOT the coronavirus. It's a matter of logistics. I take everything I see online with a grain of salt, especially videos as some of the more popular ones I've seen have turned out to be old. Though this one is particularly eye opening: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AI3R41dGnU&t=40s

Chinese New Year was basically non-existent, everything was cancelled. Since last Friday, almost everyone has been at home 90% of the time. Everything is closed, apart from shops selling the necessities. There are about 50 restaurants on the street I live on, none of them are open. For now at least, shops still have plenty of stuff, but as you alluded to, no bread There's been a huge increase in the number of places selling vegetables the last couple of days, apparently organised by the local government.

As for transport, that has been limited a lot. Most bus routes have closed. The subway is till open for now, but shortened hours and you need to show your passport, wear a mask and have your temperature taken. China's version of Uber has closed, that is a big one. To take a regular taxi you need to show you passport also, as well as wear a mask. Everyone is wearing masks. Streets are pretty empty for the most part, just people venturing out to get what they need and then straight back home.

I've stocked up on noodles and rice/beans, just in case. I venture out maybe once a day to get some vegetables and stuff. I have a dog so I bring him out 3 times a day, but just within the apartment complex I live which is pretty big.

I work in an office how, so I can work from home and will be doing so for at least the next 2 weeks, probably longer.

So yes, the boredom is real!!

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

你好

I know it may be a bit difficult but can you try and explain Chinese society to us stupid westerners.

China is a communist country, I believe the state controls most things. How then, can you get to be a billionaire in China? Is it all who you know? How do ordinary Chinese people, who make the collective effort, put up with the sheer inequality of it all?

I watched American Factory on Netflix last week and the sheep mentality of the Chinese workforce was pretty evident. They are taught ‘life is work’. Do you see it in day to day life over there. How do they regard you as the lazy westerner? Do you think if we worked as hard as them would we be a more successful society?

China is not a communist country, well not in the true sense anyway. It is a capitalist country that retains enough communist ideology to keep the government in control. Chinese people in general are free to make as much money as want. Anyone who has been to China, or plans to visit, would not for one second think they were in a communist country. Nothing would feel out of place apart from the obvious cultural differences, but you get that everywhere. Yes there's censorship and certain things are controlled, but as long as the economy is good and people can make money the vast majority of Chinese people don't particularly care. It's when those things go bad that we might see some unrest.

Yes, there can be a huge disparity in terms of earnings. The average monthly salary is pretty low for your bog standard worker. The cleaner in our office makes 2,500 RMB a month (325 euro). Yet I know a Chinese person who work for the government who has 3 apartments, in 3 different cities, and not cheap cities. But the one thing the Chinese government does well is making sure that as many people as possible have a job. There are more parking attendants in China then there are people in Ireland. Do Chinese people work more hours than those in western countries, definitely. But it also depends on what job you have. The people I work with work 9-6, that's it. Yet just outside my apartment complex are 3 convenience stores, owned by a husband and wife in all cases, who are open from 8am until midnight, every day without fail. So it's a mixture of being told you need to work X amount, versus voluntarily working X amount to make as much as you possibly can. Trust me, there are as many lazy Chinese people as there are Irish.

Like you said above, it can be hard to explain as things here vary so greatly from person to person, and city to city. I guess, in general, inequality is more noticeable when there's 1.4 billion people.

limerickabroad wrote: »

A friend of mine who worked in China some years ago said that, whatever you do, don't talk about 'the three Ts' - Taiwan, Tibet and Tienanmen (i.e. the massacre there in 1989). Is that still the case? Are local people willing/happy/able to talk about these issues, or, say, the Uighur situation in Xinjiang? In other words, how much freedom of speech is there on the ground in China?

Cheers!

You can probably include Hong Kong in that list. But yes, it is advised that you don't discuss these topics, especially in a public setting i.e. in a classroom. In saying that, there are plenty of Chinese people who are willing or even want to discuss these things. Know your audience comes to mind. While some Chinese people like talking about Taiwan or Hong kong, some can get pretty offended if you, for example, believe Taiwan should be an independent country. You've just got to really know the people you're surrounded with then talking about such things. I've seen Chinese people almost start fights over someone saying teh wrong thing. Chinese people, in general, are quite patriotic and proud of their country...and that includes the above mentioned places. And if their views don't follow that of the CCP then, yes, they better not air those thoughts publically. That includes on social media.

The Uighur situation is a bit different. Everyone just turns a blind eye to what's happening there. People from Xinjiang are also, in a lot of cases, treated as second class citizens. I'll give you an example. A former colleague of mine, American guy, lived in Xinjiang for 2 years. He married a girl from Xinjiang and they moved to Tier 2 city in eastern China. She had perfect English and was a qualified dentist, but could not get a job anywhere. On various occasions they even had the police knocking on their door. They eventually had to move to the USA when her brother and father were sent from 're-education'. Mad stuff altogether.

Mars Bar wrote: »

I'm a full time coach in the Middle East. China is where a lot of the jobs are and the packages look decent on paper but I have heard of a lot of exploitation and poor conditions.

I knew quite a few coaches in the previous city I lived in, played football with them every week. They were mostly South American, but I know of a few Irish coaches as well. They had mostly positive experiences from what I remember. But it's like any job in China, there's an element of luck as to how good/bad your employer will be. You can mitigate that somewhat by doing your research on the company, and most importantly asking to speak to current employees. Any good employer will be happy to put you in touch with someone who is working there, or has worked there previously.

cloudatlas wrote: »

Do you feel like you miss out because you can't speak the lingo and therefore are limited to hanging out with Chinese who speak English and other Westerners?

No not really. I have friends, and friends of friends, who don't speak English and it's not really an issue. Issues arise when you need to go the bank or hospital, or something online those lines. That requires a whole other level of Chinese which I certainly don't possess. When I hurt my knee, try to describe that was probably pretty funny for a spectator. But again, in those situations you have plenty of apps that translate voice to text.

JCX BXC wrote: »

Ever encounter people who pry too much into your personal affairs? Asking OTT questions and the like?

From my experience this is more evident in smaller cities, for 2 reasons. First, smaller community that are less likely to see a foreigner so everyone wants to be friends with you. Second, in smaller cities you sometimes have no choice but to only hang out with only Chinese people. That's not to say you wouldn't do that in a bigger city, but certainly not as often. You still get in bigger cities, but not as much and it's more 'controllable'. It doesn't bother me though, I've lived in a small city and loved it. However, I can see how it would annoy some certain people.

I still get asked every now again if I'm married, how old I am, how much money I make etc. They're quite common questions if you meet Chinese people who have had little or no interaction with foreigners. I got asked how old I was in the elevator yesterday by some old dude. But again, not every Chinese person will ask such things.

StringerBell wrote: »

Whats the nightlife like there, or the seedier side of things I mean. In general I have found the Chinese to be a relatively conservative people when dealing with them but assume there is a sex, drug, underworld section of society and is it all gang controlled? With government blessing/cooperation or what do you make of it?

Nightlife is decent enough. I wouldn't be much into clubbing anymore, but there are plenty of bars that would fit whatever type of night you're looking for. Drinking at bars can be expensive, funnily enough. Especially if your tipple of choice is a foreign brand.

Regarding drugs, I'm probably not the right person to ask as to how available they are. I do know some people who have smoked weed from time to time. However in the past year or so there has been a big crackdown by the police. Bars have been raided in several cities and people drug tested. It's not worth it, the minimum you're looking at if you get caught is 2 weeks detention, after which you get deported. I know a couple of people that this has happened to, including a husband and wife.

namenotavailabl wrote: »

Has your time living in China increased your appreciation of the importance of maintaining a good environment e.g. access to good quality water, fresh air, open spaces, even personal space where you can 'get away from it all'?

I've visited China approx 5 or so times (Beijing, Shanghai, Nanjing mainly as well as a few touristy spots) and really noticed these things where they were negative (so much so that I'm not really in any hurry to return, to be honest).

Probably the reason I could never live in Shanghai or Beijing to be honest. Of the above issues you mentioned, the only one that comes to mind as a bit of an issue on occasions is the fresh air. While not constant, pollution in northern China during winter can be terrible some days. Of course, if I had a choice I would prefer that wasn't the case but at the end of the day those are the choices you make.

While I do miss going to the kitchen sink to grab a glass of water, I do have a water dispenser that I can have refilled whenever I want. Even the outdoor and personal space, I can jump on the ebike and go for a walk in the park. Or jump on a train/bus and go out into the sticks If I want, that's always fun to do. I guess living here is just far different to visiting, everything becomes normal. You really notice that when you have people come visit. Now THAT is a fun experience.

Yurt! wrote: »

Do you have any good weird expat stories? China in my experience has been a magnet for oddball expats who get into all sorts of scrapes.

(Not for a moment suggesting you're an odd expat! Just that my in-and-out again experience of the place is that is has become home to a lot of lost souls trying to reinvent themselves)

I don't really have any weird ones of my own, more so just the usual funny stories that happen when you live in a different country. I work in HR, so I deal with English teachers every day. So in a sense I get a front row seat to some of antics and oddballs that end up in China. I'll list some memorable ones, maybe not all weird but ones that definitely stand out. Most of them involve alcohol.

- American teacher who lived in a small city gets drunk on Baijiu and tries to walk home. Gets lost and climbs over a fence into a large field, then falls asleep on the grass. Gets woken up by a bunch of guys with rifles. Turns out he had managed to wander into a military base.

- 2 teachers get drunk and go back to their apartment. Can't open the front door so they decide to play with fire extinguishers. Eventually, in their drunken state, they proceed to try to kick the front door in. And yes, you guessed it, they were on the wrong floor. Chinese guy comes out with knife and they run away but get arrested down the road, one of them with no shoes.

- Dude meets a Chinese girlfriend in a bar and brings her back to his apartment. Goes to work to the next morning only to come home later in the evening to find she is still there, cooking and cleaning. Next day she is still there and is refusing to leave, saying that he has to marry her. This is another small city and he is working for a company that places teachers in public schools. Nobody at his school is willing to help. He tries to tell the police but they don't care. Eventually he has to call the boss who owns the placement company and tell him what's going on. The boss says he has seen this happen before and tells the guy to back his bags on leave immediately. So he leaves in the middle of the might and gets a train to a different city where he is placed in a different school.

- Friend of mine met some Chinese people at a restaurant, started drinking with them. They invite him to a party at one of their homes. No harm in that he thinks. Goes to the apartment only to find about 15 naked people performing all sorts of sex acts on each other. He had been invited to an orgy. Rather than trying to explain that this was not his thing, he just ran.

RiseToMe wrote: »

Great AMA considering the current status over there. So you are not in Wuhan but your city is also in self isolation? Is that the same in all Chinese Provinces? I ask as we inadvertently test products which are mainly made in China obviously around Chinese New Year things are very quiet but nothing has picked up except one box of products that arrived (with no prior notice which is usual). Most of our factories are based in Zhejiang but we have had no contact and are unsure if they are also in a lockdown situation

Every city in China is in some state of self isolation as every province has at least 50 confirmed cases. I'm close enough to Hubei province, but that's in terms of the size of China, still a few hundred kilometers. To give you an idea, because of of my job I know people who live all across China, and their all in the same situation. Pretty much stuck in their apartment, venturing out to just get what they need. There are a number of apartment blocks in the city I'm in that have been quarantined i.e nobody is allowed in or out. They can get stuff delivered once a day, but that's it. This is because people who were confirmed to have been infected with the virus lived in these buildings. Everything is closed, apart from convenience stores, supermarkets and fruit/veg places. And not even all of them are open.

There's also a lot of people who live in China who are stuck abroad. Chinese new year is a popular time of year for people to go on holiday to Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia, Indonesia etc. Indonesia and Vietnam have stopped all flights to and from China. Even those in the likes of Thailand were there is currently no ban on flights are been told by their employers to stay their longer. My girlfriend is currently stuck in Vietnam

Zhejiang, for some reason that I don't know, has the second highest number of confirmed cases. I've heard that Wenzhou is locked down, and that's a huge manufacturing city.

Trojan wrote: »

How do locals view the environment & climate change?

Don't want to generalize, but most of the locals don't really care. There will be of course those that do care, but most don't. They introduced a recycling system last year, every apartment block has 4 bins outside; recyclable, kitchen waste, other waste and hazardous waste. They even have instructions stuck on the walls as to what exactly should be put in each one. Waste of time, everyone just throws random stuff into each bin.

greenttc wrote: »

I have a controversial kind of question that I hope does not come across as racist....

I lived in Australia for a while where there are large populations of Chinese people, i lived in Chinatown in Sydney for a good while. One thing that that really really stood out to me about the Chinese people was their sense of competitiveness or self preservation which i kind of just assumed came from living in a country with such a huge population.

To give an example, I might be in a shop and have picked up all I need and am heading straight for the till to pay but regularly I noticed a Chinese person speed up to get ahead of me in the queue. Or, I might be waiting for a lift in my apartment block, I would stand a normal distance back from the lift doors but when a Chinese person got to the lift after me they wouldn't stand beside me or behind me, instead they slotted themselves in between me and the lift door. This type of behaviour really stood out to me and I asked other westerners if they had noticed it to and they agreed that they had. It's almost like an ingrained mentality of needing to look out for yourself over others. Never bothered me at all but it has always stuck with me. Is this something that you have noticed in your time in China or is my description completely alien to you?

Again, I really hope I am not coming across as racist or anything, it is meant in the same way that we could say Irish people have a habit of apologising too much (saying sorry for everything), just a quirk of our nationality.

Not racist at all, that is pretty much the norm here. There are plenty of Chinese people who will hold the door for you, and thank you if you do that for them. But equally as many that won't. Supermarkets are a good example, people will bump into you with their trolleys and just continue on without saying a word. The amount of times I've had a trolley stoved up my backside when queuing. Queuing is another one, you need to be on the ball or someone could just jump right in front of you. Many Chinese people have no patience for queuing. I don't put up with that kind of stuff anymore, but I see foreigners who are new to China not knowing what to do, it's pretty funny. In saying that, plenty of Chinese people will also call people out for skipping the queue. So like I said, it's not everyone but it is something that just seems to be part of the culture.

mcgucc22 wrote: »

Is there a lot of crime there? I’m sure it probably varies city to city, but in general is there a lot of gang violence or street crime, muggings, burglaries compared to an average European or Irish city.

Crime is pretty much non-existent if you compare it to other countries. It's the safest country I've ever been to, only thing you have to take care with is crossing the road. Yes, crimes happen, but compared to the size of the population it's so small that the odds of you encountering it are extremely low. For most westerners visiting China, the main concern in places like Beijing is just not getting ripped off. You can walk down the street at 4am without a care in the world.