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Now ye're talking - to an Irishman in China

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  • 31-01-2020 10:57am
    #1
    Boards.ie Employee Posts: 12,597 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Boards.ie Community Manager


    Our next AMA guest is an Irishman living in China. He lives in a city about 800km from Wuhan* so is hopefully safe from anyone infected with the coronavirus, however as a precaution some public services in his city have been shut down and things are a lot quieter than normal for New Year.

    You can ask him questions about his experience here.

    *Wuhan is a city in Hubei province in China and is believed to be where the novel coronavirus was recently transmitted to humans. The WHO have now declared the coronavirus to be a global emergency.


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 654 ✭✭✭Gonad


    How’s the bat soup over there ?


  • Posts: 11,614 [Deleted User]


    Do you speak Mandarin?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,214 ✭✭✭sonic85


    How did you end up in China?

    What's it like living there day to day - are you a fluent speaker, are there any customs you have to follow etc?

    Would there be a big contingent of foreigners over there or could you go a while without seeing anyone who's not local?


  • Administrators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,947 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Neyite


    How concerned are you?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,709 ✭✭✭cloudatlas


    Is there a lot of superstition and alternative medicine use around you or is that a misconception?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,499 ✭✭✭Sabre0001


    I'd have so many questions at the best of times, but with the recent news from that side of the world I'm going to barrage you with related questions! Sorry in advance :D

    What were the early reports about Coronavirus like and how has the news/reporting of it changed?

    Do people believe that the reporting of number of cases and/or deaths is accurate?

    How surreal was Chinese New Year with this ongoing?

    What's the general advice being offered in Chinese media and by the Government? Are you staying home or venturing out?

    What is the attitude towards this outbreak - are people heeding warnings, are locals more wary than foreigners living in China, does the slightest cough cause panic or nervous laughter, do people think enough is being done to

    What essentials did you stock up on? And what's the first thing that stores run out of in events like this (we've learned over the last few years that bread is the first thing to go at the first sign of snow/storms/other in Ireland)?

    🤪



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,167 ✭✭✭Fr_Dougal


    Are they a great bunch of lads?


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,291 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    Have your family contacted you to try to convince you to move home a lot since the coronavirus thing?


  • Company Representative Posts: 39 Verified rep I'm in China, AMA


    Gonad wrote: »
    How’s the bat soup over there ?

    I've tried some strange food things here, but I do have my limits :D
    Do you speak Mandarin?

    I know enough to get by, not fluent by any means. You really need to put the effort in to learn it, especially the characters. I'm always too busy with work to attend proper lessons, though I do hope to do that this year.
    sonic85 wrote: »
    How did you end up in China?

    What's it like living there day to day - are you a fluent speaker, are there any customs you have to follow etc?

    Would there be a big contingent of foreigners over there or could you go a while without seeing anyone who's not local?

    By accident, sort of. I had done some teaching and really enjoyed it. I also love to travel, so basically combined the two in a sense. Why I choose China? Curiosity mainly, but ended up loving it. So much so that I left for China for a year to teach somewhere else and ended up missing it.

    Yeah there are a decent amount of foreigners here. How many depends on the city. There would be thousands in Beijing and Shanghai, but for example I lived in a really small city my first year here and there were 6 of us. But most larger cities have a pretty decent foreign community.

    Living here in general in pretty easy to be honest. Like every country there are some great things about living here and some downright annoying things. Thankfully the great things outnumber the annoying ones, for me anyway.
    Neyite wrote: »
    How concerned are you?

    I'm not overly concerned at the moment, but certainly wary. Everyone is basically confined to their apartments at the moment, only venturing out to get what they need. Both Chinese and foreign I might add. Why is everyone staying at home? Well, because of everything is closed apart from conveniences stores and most supermarkets. Transport is also severely limited. Plus the fact that nobody wants to get sick, of course. It's a bit of a weird situation to be in, that's for sure. But I will say that they seem to be doing everything they can to make sure things don't get worse. I get my temperature checked every time I enter my apartment complex :pac:
    cloudatlas wrote: »
    Is there a lot of superstition and alternative medicine use around you or is that a misconception?

    Chinese medicine is very common. I really don't know a whole lot about it as I never use it. I always ask for the had stuff if I'm sick. That would be my advice to anyone who ever visits China and gets ill...know what you want before you go into a pharmacy. They will have most popular western medications, but will often give you the herbal stuff. Does it work? Some say it does, I have my doubts. Acupuncture on the other hand, is like black magic. I don't know how, but from my own personal experience that stuff works, and well.

    There is definitely superstition, though it's not extremely obvious in everyday life. Numbers, for example. 4 and 7 are considered unlucky. 8 is THE lucky number in China. People will actually seek out the number 8 i.e. living on the 8th floor, having 8's in your phone number etc. But again, it's not something that really stands out and you probably wouldn't even notice these things unless someone told you.


  • Posts: 11,614 [Deleted User]


    I know enough to get by, not fluent by any means. You really need to put the effort in to learn it, especially the characters. I'm always too busy with work to attend proper lessons, though I do hope to do that this year.

    I got berrated on another thread for pointing out how difficult it is.

    I was in Shanghai for two weeks back in July, so I have first hand experience of it. I can count to 5 and say thank you, and thats about it.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,340 ✭✭✭nozzferrahhtoo


    How many different forms of moon cake did you eat a few weeks ago?

    I should be in taipei for a week for the first time ever this year, so have you been over that way? Any cultural do's or don't I should know about?

    And is stinky tofu all I hear it is? :)


  • Company Representative Posts: 39 Verified rep I'm in China, AMA


    Sabre0001 wrote: »
    I'd have so many questions at the best of times, but with the recent news from that side of the world I'm going to barrage you with related questions! Sorry in advance :D

    What were the early reports about Coronavirus like and how has the news/reporting of it changed?

    Do people believe that the reporting of number of cases and/or deaths is accurate?

    How surreal was Chinese New Year with this ongoing?

    What's the general advice being offered in Chinese media and by the Government? Are you staying home or venturing out?

    What is the attitude towards this outbreak - are people heeding warnings, are locals more wary than foreigners living in China, does the slightest cough cause panic or nervous laughter, do people think enough is being done to

    What essentials did you stock up on? And what's the first thing that stores run out of in events like this (we've learned over the last few years that bread is the first thing to go at the first sign of snow/storms/other in Ireland)?

    I started hearing reports about 2 weeks before Chinese New Year, but at time it just sounded like a local outbreak and I personally paid no attention to it, as did most people. Things started to sound a bit more serious in few days leading up to Chinese New Year, but again I think everyone thought it would just fizzle out.

    While I don't necessarily believe that the government are intentionally (go figure), I do believe that there are far more people infected than the number quoted. Why the discrepancy? It seems that the hospitals in Wuhan are only admitting those with serious symptoms as that is all they can cope with. Are they testing every single person with symptoms? I highly doubt that. You've got to remember that in a city that size there are going to be tens of thousands of people every week who are sick with illnesses that are NOT the coronavirus. It's a matter of logistics. I take everything I see online with a grain of salt, especially videos as some of the more popular ones I've seen have turned out to be old. Though this one is particularly eye opening: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AI3R41dGnU&t=40s

    Chinese New Year was basically non-existent, everything was cancelled. Since last Friday, almost everyone has been at home 90% of the time. Everything is closed, apart from shops selling the necessities. There are about 50 restaurants on the street I live on, none of them are open. For now at least, shops still have plenty of stuff, but as you alluded to, no bread :( There's been a huge increase in the number of places selling vegetables the last couple of days, apparently organised by the local government.

    As for transport, that has been limited a lot. Most bus routes have closed. The subway is till open for now, but shortened hours and you need to show your passport, wear a mask and have your temperature taken. China's version of Uber has closed, that is a big one. To take a regular taxi you need to show you passport also, as well as wear a mask. Everyone is wearing masks. Streets are pretty empty for the most part, just people venturing out to get what they need and then straight back home.

    I've stocked up on noodles and rice/beans, just in case. I venture out maybe once a day to get some vegetables and stuff. I have a dog so I bring him out 3 times a day, but just within the apartment complex I live which is pretty big.

    I work in an office how, so I can work from home and will be doing so for at least the next 2 weeks, probably longer.

    So yes, the boredom is real!!


  • Company Representative Posts: 39 Verified rep I'm in China, AMA


    gmisk wrote: »
    Have your family contacted you to try to convince you to move home a lot since the coronavirus thing?

    Yeah I speak with them about twice a week. As long as I'm not worried, they're fine. They've of course asked if I am going to stay, but have in no way tried to convince me to leave. In a weird way I think it helps that they've been here to visit.
    How many different forms of moon cake did you eat a few weeks ago?

    I should be in taipei for a week for the first time ever this year, so have you been over that way? Any cultural do's or don't I should know about?

    And is stinky tofu all I hear it is? :)

    I'm really not a fan of moon cakes, so zero :D I adore the food here, but mooncakes are an exception.

    I actually haven't been to Taiwan would you believe, which is actually annoying me at this point as it's one of the few places I haven't been to in east/south east. I've been to a tonne of provinces here in China, Hong kong, Macau etc. But not Taiwan. This year, hopefully.

    Good stinky tofu is really nice. Smells terrible but can taste amazing. It's very popular in Changsha, were I lived previously. Unfortunately it can be pretty terrible in other parts of China. That and Durian, you can find them a 100 meters away just using your nose :D
    Fr_Dougal wrote: »
    Are they a great bunch of lads?

    Yes father!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭Loomis


    I got berrated on another thread for pointing out how difficult it is.

    I was in Shanghai for two weeks back in July, so I have first hand experience of it. I can count to 5 and say thank you, and thats about it.

    Anyone who has a go at you for this doesn't have a notion how difficult the language is to learn for native English speakers. Mandarin (and Cantonese) are classified as Category V languages, meaning it takes roughly 88 weeks (2200 hours) of study (note study, not casual) to reach general proficiency.

    Setting reading aside (and the massive difference in their characters to Latin based languages), the tones are extremely difficult to master. My wife has taught me a little, but without actually studying it, it's just very difficult. The few things I can say, probably only she would understand what I'm attempting to say. Without the correct tones, it could be incomprehensible to a native speaker or just as easily come out meaning something I didn't intend.
    Chinese medicine is very common. I really don't know a whole lot about it as I never use it.

    Just drink some warm water and you'll be grand. :P


  • Registered Users Posts: 160 ✭✭Urquell


    What do you wish you could say, but if you said it, would get you sent to a Re-education camp for 10 years?

    You can tell us.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,373 ✭✭✭Gloomtastic!


    你好

    I know it may be a bit difficult but can you try and explain Chinese society to us stupid westerners.

    China is a communist country, I believe the state controls most things. How then, can you get to be a billionaire in China? Is it all who you know? How do ordinary Chinese people, who make the collective effort, put up with the sheer inequality of it all?

    I watched American Factory on Netflix last week and the sheep mentality of the Chinese workforce was pretty evident. They are taught ‘life is work’. Do you see it in day to day life over there. How do they regard you as the lazy westerner? Do you think if we worked as hard as them would we be a more successful society?


  • Company Representative Posts: 39 Verified rep I'm in China, AMA


    Loomis wrote: »
    Anyone who has a go at you for this doesn't have a notion how difficult the language is to learn for native English speakers. Mandarin (and Cantonese) are classified as Category V languages, meaning it takes roughly 88 weeks (2200 hours) of study (note study, not casual) to reach general proficiency.

    Setting reading aside (and the massive difference in their characters to Latin based languages), the tones are extremely difficult to master. My wife has taught me a little, but without actually studying it, it's just very difficult. The few things I can say, probably only she would understand what I'm attempting to say. Without the correct tones, it could be incomprehensible to a native speaker or just as easily come out meaning something I didn't intend.

    Just drink some warm water and you'll be grand. :P

    I mean I can't really say much, I've been here over 4 years in total and my Chinese is only passable. I know 2 people who have gotten pretty good at Chinese in the space of a year, but they studied 4+ hours every single day.

    The hot and cold thing is pretty funny, hot water fixes everything. You get sick, thats because the air conditioner is bad for you, everything cold is bad for you. Drink hot water, that will make you better. Yet on numerous occasions I've seen Chinese people in McDonalds ordering ice cream at 10am in the morning. Logic!!


  • Company Representative Posts: 39 Verified rep I'm in China, AMA


    你好

    I know it may be a bit difficult but can you try and explain Chinese society to us stupid westerners.

    China is a communist country, I believe the state controls most things. How then, can you get to be a billionaire in China? Is it all who you know? How do ordinary Chinese people, who make the collective effort, put up with the sheer inequality of it all?

    I watched American Factory on Netflix last week and the sheep mentality of the Chinese workforce was pretty evident. They are taught ‘life is work’. Do you see it in day to day life over there. How do they regard you as the lazy westerner? Do you think if we worked as hard as them would we be a more successful society?

    China is not a communist country, well not in the true sense anyway. It is a capitalist country that retains enough communist ideology to keep the government in control. Chinese people in general are free to make as much money as want. Anyone who has been to China, or plans to visit, would not for one second think they were in a communist country. Nothing would feel out of place apart from the obvious cultural differences, but you get that everywhere. Yes there's censorship and certain things are controlled, but as long as the economy is good and people can make money the vast majority of Chinese people don't particularly care. It's when those things go bad that we might see some unrest.

    Yes, there can be a huge disparity in terms of earnings. The average monthly salary is pretty low for your bog standard worker. The cleaner in our office makes 2,500 RMB a month (325 euro). Yet I know a Chinese person who work for the government who has 3 apartments, in 3 different cities, and not cheap cities. But the one thing the Chinese government does well is making sure that as many people as possible have a job. There are more parking attendants in China then there are people in Ireland. Do Chinese people work more hours than those in western countries, definitely. But it also depends on what job you have. The people I work with work 9-6, that's it. Yet just outside my apartment complex are 3 convenience stores, owned by a husband and wife in all cases, who are open from 8am until midnight, every day without fail. So it's a mixture of being told you need to work X amount, versus voluntarily working X amount to make as much as you possibly can. Trust me, there are as many lazy Chinese people as there are Irish.

    Like you said above, it can be hard to explain as things here vary so greatly from person to person, and city to city. I guess, in general, inequality is more noticeable when there's 1.4 billion people.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,546 ✭✭✭Pauliedragon


    How's the interest in soccer over there? It seems the last few years the money players moving from Europe are getting has exploded exponentially. Has it always been like that or has China all of a sudden become a mad soccer nation overnight? Do they get massive crowds, tv money etc to pay these massive contracts?


  • Registered Users Posts: 95 ✭✭limerickabroad


    A friend of mine who worked in China some years ago said that, whatever you do, don't talk about 'the three Ts' - Taiwan, Tibet and Tienanmen (i.e. the massacre there in 1989). Is that still the case? Are local people willing/happy/able to talk about these issues, or, say, the Uighur situation in Xinjiang? In other words, how much freedom of speech is there on the ground in China?

    Cheers!


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  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators Posts: 12,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭miamee


    I started hearing reports about 2 weeks before Chinese New Year, but at time it just sounded like a local outbreak and I personally paid no attention to it, as did most people. Things started to sound a bit more serious in few days leading up to Chinese New Year, but again I think everyone thought it would just fizzle out.

    While I don't necessarily believe that the government are intentionally (go figure), I do believe that there are far more people infected than the number quoted. Why the discrepancy? It seems that the hospitals in Wuhan are only admitting those with serious symptoms as that is all they can cope with. Are they testing every single person with symptoms? I highly doubt that. You've got to remember that in a city that size there are going to be tens of thousands of people every week who are sick with illnesses that are NOT the coronavirus. It's a matter of logistics. I take everything I see online with a grain of salt, especially videos as some of the more popular ones I've seen have turned out to be old. Though this one is particularly eye opening: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AI3R41dGnU&t=40s

    Chinese New Year was basically non-existent, everything was cancelled. Since last Friday, almost everyone has been at home 90% of the time. Everything is closed, apart from shops selling the necessities. There are about 50 restaurants on the street I live on, none of them are open. For now at least, shops still have plenty of stuff, but as you alluded to, no bread :( There's been a huge increase in the number of places selling vegetables the last couple of days, apparently organised by the local government.

    As for transport, that has been limited a lot. Most bus routes have closed. The subway is till open for now, but shortened hours and you need to show your passport, wear a mask and have your temperature taken. China's version of Uber has closed, that is a big one. To take a regular taxi you need to show you passport also, as well as wear a mask. Everyone is wearing masks. Streets are pretty empty for the most part, just people venturing out to get what they need and then straight back home.

    I've stocked up on noodles and rice/beans, just in case. I venture out maybe once a day to get some vegetables and stuff. I have a dog so I bring him out 3 times a day, but just within the apartment complex I live which is pretty big.

    I work in an office how, so I can work from home and will be doing so for at least the next 2 weeks, probably longer.

    So yes, the boredom is real!!

    I've watched some of that video you posted earlier, it is very scary isn't it? Hopefully it's as contained as it possibly can be for you but it seems like a total nightmare for people in Wuhan. A dreadful situation. Has your workplace closed down or are there others who are still going to the office - was it a choice to work from home I mean or were you all told to do so?

    Have you stockpiled any food and water just in case or are you reasonably happy that the stores will remain open?

    Have you a plan to fill all of your spare time for the next while indoors? At least having a dog gets you out of the apartment a few times a day and you have some company :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭vriesmays


    Will you ever be considered Chinese living there.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,231 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    Have you recently visited Hong Kong? It has been a few years since I was there to present a paper at a conference. It was expensive when I went. But fortunately, someone was paying my way. Still expensive to stay? Anything else to be mindful about?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,709 ✭✭✭cloudatlas


    is veganism/vegetarianism a thing?


  • Company Representative Posts: 39 Verified rep I'm in China, AMA


    How's the interest in soccer over there? It seems the last few years the money players moving from Europe are getting has exploded exponentially. Has it always been like that or has China all of a sudden become a mad soccer nation overnight? Do they get massive crowds, tv money etc to pay these massive contracts?

    I would say interest is on the rise, but not enough to actually make the Chinese team decent :pac:. The've built lot's academies in recent years and hired lots of coaches from abroad, so they're trying. Maybe in a few years. Interest can be quite regional too, for example Dalian is known as a football city, mainly because they used to have the best team. Whereas in other cities basketball would be the most popular sport.

    I believe they've capped the salaries now, no they won't get getting the big name players anymore. I play football every week, though it dies down a bit in the winter. There are some really decent Chinese players, they're always very technical. But if anything they try to be too technical, and no matter who we play we always win. They're also awful in the air.
    vriesmays wrote: »
    Will you ever be considered Chinese living there.

    Nope. Getting Chinese citizenship is next to impossible, so you will always need a visa that has to be renewed every year.
    Black Swan wrote: »
    Have you recently visited Hong Kong? It has been a few years since I was there to present a paper at a conference. It was expensive when I went. But fortunately, someone was paying my way. Still expensive to stay? Anything else to be mindful about?

    I haven't been to Hong kong since 2015. I was supposed to go last October but decided against it and went to Macau instead. I really liked it, buut going from China it was pretty expensive. In saying that, the local food street food was cheap enough. I've heard that hotels and stuff have gotten a little cheaper because of the recent unrest. A friend was there last week and he didn't seem to have any problems, he loved it.
    cloudatlas wrote: »
    is veganism/vegetarianism a thing?

    Among Chinese people, not really. There are vegetarian/vegan restaurants, very few though. So perhaps there has been a small increase in the number of people adopting a veggie diet, but not a noticeable amount.

    There are plenty of vegan/veggie foreigners here. My girlfriend is one of them :pac: Most of them don't actually find it too bad here being a veggie, contrary to what most people would think. Chinese people live their meat, but they eat more fruit and veg than the average Irish person. The issue is that in typical Chinese restaurants they often find a way to sneak a little bit of meat into dishes. Eating culture is different. A group of people would share multiple dishes rather than having their own dish. I love this aspect.
    miamee wrote: »
    I've watched some of that video you posted earlier, it is very scary isn't it? Hopefully it's as contained as it possibly can be for you but it seems like a total nightmare for people in Wuhan. A dreadful situation. Has your workplace closed down or are there others who are still going to the office - was it a choice to work from home I mean or were you all told to do so?

    Have you stockpiled any food and water just in case or are you reasonably happy that the stores will remain open?

    Have you a plan to fill all of your spare time for the next while indoors? At least having a dog gets you out of the apartment a few times a day and you have some company :)

    Yes my workplace is closed completely, along with most most other peoples. The official government set Chinese holiday was extended from January 30th until February 2nd, but I believe that has been extended again. No it wasn't a choice on my behalf, we were told to work from home for the next 2 weeks, that will probably be extended. The consensus is that the the number of confirmed cases is going to continue to rise for the next 2 weeks, at least. They slowly reduce, but nobody really knows.

    I've stockpiled certain things, but for the moment shops are still open so no cause for concern just yet. As I mentioned previously, shops (convenience stores, supermarkets) are the only things open.

    I won't lie, it can be mind numbingly boring. I've never been in a situation where I've been stuck inside for so long...and for the foreseeable future. Crazy when you think about it. I've done lots of reading, watched tonnes of TV shows and movies, lots of cooking and cleaning etc. I'll have work to do next week so that will help. I'll have to come up with something else to so though. Any ideas? :pac:


  • Company Representative Posts: 39 Verified rep I'm in China, AMA


    A friend of mine who worked in China some years ago said that, whatever you do, don't talk about 'the three Ts' - Taiwan, Tibet and Tienanmen (i.e. the massacre there in 1989). Is that still the case? Are local people willing/happy/able to talk about these issues, or, say, the Uighur situation in Xinjiang? In other words, how much freedom of speech is there on the ground in China?

    Cheers!

    You can probably include Hong Kong in that list. But yes, it is advised that you don't discuss these topics, especially in a public setting i.e. in a classroom. In saying that, there are plenty of Chinese people who are willing or even want to discuss these things. Know your audience comes to mind. While some Chinese people like talking about Taiwan or Hong kong, some can get pretty offended if you, for example, believe Taiwan should be an independent country. You've just got to really know the people you're surrounded with then talking about such things. I've seen Chinese people almost start fights over someone saying teh wrong thing. Chinese people, in general, are quite patriotic and proud of their country...and that includes the above mentioned places. And if their views don't follow that of the CCP then, yes, they better not air those thoughts publically. That includes on social media.

    The Uighur situation is a bit different. Everyone just turns a blind eye to what's happening there. People from Xinjiang are also, in a lot of cases, treated as second class citizens. I'll give you an example. A former colleague of mine, American guy, lived in Xinjiang for 2 years. He married a girl from Xinjiang and they moved to Tier 2 city in eastern China. She had perfect English and was a qualified dentist, but could not get a job anywhere. On various occasions they even had the police knocking on their door. They eventually had to move to the USA when her brother and father were sent from 're-education'. Mad stuff altogether.


  • Registered Users Posts: 187 ✭✭Ulmus


    I read the sad news of Wu Huayan, a 24-year-old student, on the BBC website (which is banned in China). It was reported she died from malnutrition as she scrimped money to pay her younger brother's medical bills. However, it appears she actually had a rare genetic condition which causes advanced aging of the body. It must be really scary in China if you are poor and need medical intervention. Do you have medical insurance?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,749 ✭✭✭Smiles35


    What are the supermarkets like over there? Is there the same range and diversity of goods as over here?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,943 ✭✭✭6541


    Do Chinese people know anything about Ireland.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 31,826 ✭✭✭✭Mars Bar


    I would say interest is on the rise, but not enough to actually make the Chinese team decent :pac:. The've built lot's academies in recent years and hired lots of coaches from abroad, so they're trying. Maybe in a few years. Interest can be quite regional too, for example Dalian is known as a football city, mainly because they used to have the best team. Whereas in other cities basketball would be the most popular sport.
    :

    I'm a full time coach in the Middle East. China is where a lot of the jobs are and the packages look decent on paper but I have heard of a lot of exploitation and poor conditions.


This discussion has been closed.
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