AMD Zen Discussion Thread

Cuddlesworth · 09-02-2017 10:29pm

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

That's some incredible pre-availability, pre-conducting-any-tests assumptions about performance going on there!

However for all our sakes let's hope it's at least competitive at a lower price.

Few people have confirmed the source of the pricing. Its expected to be within 10% of that figure for most large scale retailers.

BloodBath · 10-02-2017 5:10pm

That's insanely good. Intel can do what they want now. Drop prices, release higher clocked variants but there's nothing they can do short term to compete with this AMD line up.

Just gotta wait for more benchmarks now to see how much they whup their intel counterparts.

EoinHef · 10-02-2017 7:52pm

No Ryzen drivers for windows 7 from what i read today. Bummer for anyone clinging onto 7.

Slutmonkey57b · 10-02-2017 7:54pm

Bang goes corporate sales if that's true. Microsoft is still forcing people off xp!

wotzgoingon · 10-02-2017 7:55pm

I don't know why people want to stay on 7. Yes it was good but I moved onto 8 then 8.1 and now 10 when they were first released and I never had any problem.

I see the post above me yes corporates may want to stay but general users should just update

EoinHef · 10-02-2017 8:28pm

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Bang goes corporate sales if that's true. Microsoft is still forcing people off xp!

PCWorld,PCGamer and Tech-PowerUp all running the story so id say it is. Im sure confirmation will start popping up elsewhere now

EoinHef · 10-02-2017 8:38pm

wotzgoingon wrote: »

I don't know why people want to stay on 7. Yes it was good but I moved onto 8 then 8.1 and now 10 when they were first released and I never had any problem.

I see the post above me yes corporates may want to stay but general users should just update

At this point moving to 10 is a no brainer,pretty much free too. Also Kaby Lake is windows 10 too,so if corprates want to upgrade to the latest stuff,windows 10 is the only option. So no loss to AMD there really.

Venom · 10-02-2017 9:25pm

EoinHef wrote: »

At this point moving to 10 is a no brainer,pretty much free too. Also Kaby Lake is windows 10 too,so if corprates want to upgrade to the latest stuff,windows 10 is the only option. So no loss to AMD there really.

The big problem with corporate upgrades of windows is not so much just the cost of new hardware which can be alot, but compatibility issues with older software not being supported on the newer OS. This can be a huge problem for a business due to buying a new package, transferring data from the old to new system and then having to train in staff on it.

wotzgoingon · 10-02-2017 9:53pm

When I was in college they upgraded from XP to 7 and loads of programs wouldn't work. I think for some programs we used VM's and not all would work through them either.

EoinHef · 10-02-2017 11:03pm

Venom wrote: »

The big problem with corporate upgrades of windows is not so much just the cost of new hardware which can be alot, but compatibility issues with older software not being supported on the newer OS. This can be a huge problem for a business due to buying a new package, transferring data from the old to new system and then having to train in staff on it.

Aye i get that,what i mean is they would also need to upgrade their OS for Kaby Lake too so Ryzen not having windows 7 drivers wont be a hinderance against kaby lake anyway.

Venom · 10-02-2017 11:08pm

EoinHef wrote: »

Aye i get that,what i mean is they would also need to upgrade their OS for Kaby Lake too so Ryzen not having windows 7 drivers wont be a hinderance against kaby lake anyway.

What does the Kabylake/i7 combo boost tho?

EoinHef · 10-02-2017 11:33pm

Venom wrote: »

What does the Kabylake/i7 combo boost tho?

Not sure what ye mean there?

If a company decides to upgrade now,kaby lake and ryzen both dont support windows 7. Just meant in that sense neither has an advantage there.

Cuddlesworth · 11-02-2017 12:44am

EoinHef wrote: »

Not sure what ye mean there?

If a company decides to upgrade now,kaby lake and ryzen both dont support windows 7. Just meant in that sense neither has an advantage there.

They work on Windows 7, its just that they won't supply a specific driver or try get specific newer low level chip features working on the OS in future or try fix and weird bugs that come up(which is unlikely). This is normal, Microsoft are dropping all support for Win7 next year. They don't support XP either, or NT, or Win95 but you can still install them and they will probably work fine.

extra-ordinary_ · 11-02-2017 2:21am

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

...Microsoft are dropping all support for Win7 next year. ...

They extended it to 2020 no?

Cuddlesworth · 11-02-2017 9:38am

extra-ordinary_ wrote: »

They extended it to 2020 no?

I would guess thats paid support from Enterprise if its the case.

Venom · 11-02-2017 1:51pm

EoinHef wrote: »

Not sure what ye mean there?

If a company decides to upgrade now,kaby lake and ryzen both dont support windows 7. Just meant in that sense neither has an advantage there.

My bad, I ment the CPU has extra instructions if you pair an i7 kabylake with Windows 10 but it rather vague on what they actually do

K.O.Kiki · 11-02-2017 3:43pm

Looks like some R7 1700x benchmarks leaked

K.O.Kiki · 12-02-2017 2:52am

RyZen reference coolers with LEDs

Icyseanfitz · 12-02-2017 3:20am

Wonder will they all come with coolers.

Cuddlesworth · 12-02-2017 11:02am

AMD would never put out a render like that, even internally.

Alpha8 · 12-02-2017 9:06pm

http://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-full-lineup-pricing-clock-speeds-leaked/

The 4c/4t one is a steal for 129

Icyseanfitz · 13-02-2017 12:06am

i wonder how the single core performance of the 1800x will stack up to say the i7 7700k, thats what has me interested, if its at skylake ipc with 8 cores 16 threads id be very interested. That and the am4 socket will be around for 3-4years

Skerries · 13-02-2017 1:11am

some leaked benchmarks

http://www.forbes.com/sites/antonyleather/2017/02/12/amd-ryzen-biggest-leak-yet-amazing-benchmarks-and-prices-starting-at-just-129/#4a2ebf7f4bb7

and more expected pricing

Digital Solitude · 13-02-2017 1:28am

For anyone who doesn't want to read Forbes stupid quote.

https://videocardz.com/65825/first-amd-ryzen-7-1700x-benchmarks-are-here

Single thread performance is a little behind Intel but the pricing is so much lower it makes Ryzen a much better idea if it holds up down to the weaker CPUs.

X versions don't come with a fan apparently, surprised to hear that but I probably shouldn't be

wotzgoingon · 13-02-2017 1:30am

Digital Solitude wrote: »

For anyone who doesn't want to read Forbes stupid quote.

https://videocardz.com/65825/first-amd-ryzen-7-1700x-benchmarks-are-here

Single thread performance is a little behind Intel but the pricing is so much lower it makes Ryzen a much better idea if it holds up down to the weaker CPUs.

X versions don't come with a fan apparently, surprised to hear that but I probably shouldn't be

Sure most who would be getting them will want their own I know if I do upgrade I will get a X model and I will get my own cooler.

But then on the other hand my PC is perfectly fine so I am still on the fence if I will upgrade or not.

AlmightyCushion · 13-02-2017 1:56am

Digital Solitude wrote: »

For anyone who doesn't want to read Forbes stupid quote.

https://videocardz.com/65825/first-amd-ryzen-7-1700x-benchmarks-are-here

Single thread performance is a little behind Intel but the pricing is so much lower it makes Ryzen a much better idea if it holds up down to the weaker CPUs.

X versions don't come with a fan apparently, surprised to hear that but I probably shouldn't be

The X version is the one that can be overclocked so I'd say any one buying that would be after a better cooler anyway.

wotzgoingon · 13-02-2017 2:12am

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Digital Solitude wrote: »

For anyone who doesn't want to read Forbes stupid quote.

https://videocardz.com/65825/first-amd-ryzen-7-1700x-benchmarks-are-here

Single thread performance is a little behind Intel but the pricing is so much lower it makes Ryzen a much better idea if it holds up down to the weaker CPUs.

X versions don't come with a fan apparently, surprised to hear that but I probably shouldn't be

The X version is the one that can be overclocked so I'd say any one buying that would be after a better cooler anyway.

They can all be overclocked with an unlocked multiplier.

Digital Solitude · 13-02-2017 2:12am

Ah you've some people who just want the higher clocks and aren't arsed with the whole third party cooler or overclocking lark, we get a bit of that in B&U regards like the 6700 or 6700k

dazberry · 13-02-2017 9:52am

Digital Solitude wrote:

Ah you've some people who just want the higher clocks and aren't arsed with the whole third party cooler or overclocking lark, we get a bit of that in B&U regards like the 6700 or 6700k

The X variants have XFR (eXtended Frequency Range) enabled so can automatically over clock beyond the boost clock if the cooling solution is good enough. In that respect they could be considered enthusiast parts, so it would be reasonable to expect 3rd party cooling in that case.

Cuddlesworth · 13-02-2017 12:56pm

dazberry wrote: »

The X variants have XFR (eXtended Frequency Range) enabled so can automatically over clock beyond the boost clock if the cooling solution is good enough. In that respect they could be considered enthusiast parts, so it would be reasonable to expect 3rd party cooling in that case.

I am interested in the reviews, as in theory it could mean that single threaded tasks can ramp up cores to a extreme that you might not normally get with a all round overclock.

Skerries · 14-02-2017 9:33pm

Icyseanfitz · 15-02-2017 9:39am

if thats legit and the pricing leaks are right intel is in for a rough time

wotzgoingon · 15-02-2017 2:35pm

One pricing I didn't see was Euro. The leaks have always been US dollar or some asian price.
It would be nice to know the Euro price.

Icyseanfitz · 15-02-2017 2:42pm

take the dollar price and go about 1:1 is what I'd be thinking

dazberry · 15-02-2017 3:42pm

wotzgoingon wrote: »

One pricing I didn't see was Euro. The leaks have always been US dollar or some asian price.
It would be nice to know the Euro price.

A Belgian retailer leaked the prices a couple of days ago - recorded here

D.

wotzgoingon · 15-02-2017 3:52pm

dazberry wrote: »

A Belgian retailer leaked the prices a couple of days ago - recorded here

D.

Damn the chip I had my eye on is a lot more expensive in Euro.

Icyseanfitz · 15-02-2017 4:42pm

Yeah from all the price leaks I had looked at was expecting the 1800x to be around 500 euro

Venom · 15-02-2017 9:02pm

wotzgoingon wrote: »

Damn the chip I had my eye on is a lot more expensive in Euro.

We always get screwed on the price of tech

Cuddlesworth · 15-02-2017 9:10pm

Venom wrote: »

We always get screwed on the price of tech

Intels lowest 8 core is a grand and its lowest 6 core is 440, even if Ryzen is 20% less IPC thats still a really good deal.

EoinHef · 15-02-2017 9:19pm

Im wondering how much use all these cores are going to be for games,even ones coming out over the next year or so. Its only performance in that department that interests me,when you see i3's performing exactly the same as i7's im thinking that bar the odd outlier that most games will perform similarly on a ryzen quad core as they will on a ryzen octo core.

Lu Tze · 15-02-2017 9:27pm

EoinHef wrote: »

Im wondering how much use all these cores are going to be for games,even ones coming out over the next year or so. Its only performance in that department that interests me,when you see i3's performing exactly the same as i7's im thinking that bar the odd outlier that most games will perform similarly on a ryzen quad core as they will on a ryzen octo core.

You are probably right, but most of us would run some software which would make use off it, or multiple programs simultaneously. That said, I'll not be upgrading for a good while, a 3770 still doing me fine, and not bottlenecking me in anything, or rarely at least.

BloodBath · 15-02-2017 10:07pm

EoinHef wrote: »

Im wondering how much use all these cores are going to be for games,even ones coming out over the next year or so. Its only performance in that department that interests me,when you see i3's performing exactly the same as i7's im thinking that bar the odd outlier that most games will perform similarly on a ryzen quad core as they will on a ryzen octo core.

8 real cores are going to be better than 4 with SMT though but I doubt many games use anything past 4 cores heavily. The SMT on the 8/16's is not gonna do much for gaming.

I'm thinking the 6/12 will be the sweet spot for price/performance in the high end while being easier to cool and overclock. The 4/8's should be the go to processor for mid range gaming PC's and the cheapest 4/4 for budget builds.

We'll have to see if the XFR is worth paying a premium for or whether manual overclocking will achieve similar results.

EoinHef · 15-02-2017 10:13pm

Lu Tze wrote: »

You are probably right, but most of us would run some software which would make use off it, or multiple programs simultaneously. That said, I'll not be upgrading for a good while, a 3770 still doing me fine, and not bottlenecking me in anything, or rarely at least.

Oh yeah im sure theres plenty of people who could make use of the cores,just cant see lots of games taking much advantage for awhile yet.

On ivy bridge myself,3570K,its been really good to me but ive decided to upgrade this year while i can still get a few bob for the old gear. Ill be waiting for Ryzen benches to make a final decision what way im going to go.

The way its looking to me now though a lot is going to depend on pricing in the EU. Like the RX480 was supposed to be a $200 card,not in the bloody EU it isnt,no reason to think ryzen wont be the same imo.

wotzgoingon · 15-02-2017 10:14pm

I was all set on the 1700X last night until I seen the euro prices today.

Now I'm just thinking to myself do I need to upgrade as my current PC is fine. Plays all games perfectly.

I will wait for reviews and then reviews from general users on different forums. If people start raving about how good their new CPU is then I may budge and bite the bullet. But as I said I am on the fence atm as my current setup is fine.

Lu Tze · 15-02-2017 10:23pm

EoinHef wrote: »

Oh yeah im sure theres plenty of people who could make use of the cores,just cant see lots of games taking much advantage for awhile yet.

On ivy bridge myself,3570K,its been really good to me but ive decided to upgrade this year while i can still get a few bob for the old gear. Ill be waiting for Ryzen benches to make a final decision what way im going to go.

The way its looking to me now though a lot is going to depend on pricing in the EU. Like the RX480 was supposed to be a $200 card,not in the bloody EU it isnt,no reason to think ryzen wont be the same imo.

If you don't nees the extra cores go with that new overclockable i3 and over clock the bejaysis out of it! Or one of the 4c ryzens seeing as they are all unlocked.

I reckon we won't know really how good or how much value they are until some legit reviews start to land

EoinHef · 15-02-2017 10:23pm

BloodBath wrote: »

8 real cores are going to be better than 4 with SMT though but I doubt many games use anything past 4 cores heavily. The SMT on the 8/16's is not gonna do much for gaming.

I'm thinking the 6/12 will be the sweet spot for price/performance in the high end while being easier to cool and overclock. The 4/8's should be the go to processor for mid range gaming PC's and the cheapest 4/4 for budget builds.

We'll have to see if the XFR is worth paying a premium for or whether manual overclocking will achieve similar results.

Yeah the overclocking potential is going to be important,if games are not going to use all the cores at least could get more from them with clock speeds. Was delighted to see they are going to unlock the multipliers across the range,very consumer friendly.

Hopefully the single core performance is up to it,if its not with games only starting to make use of a lot of cores i feel ryzen may not be great for gaming currently. That may change of course over the next few years. Be just like AMD to release something that gets better over time rather than concentrating on the now.

EoinHef · 15-02-2017 10:32pm

Lu Tze wrote: »

If you don't nees the extra cores go with that new overclockable i3 and over clock the bejaysis out of it! Or one of the 4c ryzens seeing as they are all unlocked.

I reckon we won't know really how good or how much value they are until some legit reviews start to land

For me the new i3 k sku is too close in price to the i5's,four genuine cores for a very similar price sounds like a better deal for me,givin the clock speeds of the i5's out of the box.

The 4c\8t or 6c\12t ryzen if we can overclock the pants off them would interest me. After that i feel anymore cores would be wasted on my machine. Be interesting to see how they line up against the 7600k and 7700k. For gaming i think thats going to be the most competitive section of the line ups. Then the i3 vs the 4c ryzen for the budget end.

dazberry · 16-02-2017 12:40am

Budget wise I had a figure in my mind of ~around~ €350 for a new cpu, so it looks like a toss up between a 1700 8/16 or a 1600X 6/12. I'll be replacing a Phenom II x6 so leaning towards the 8/16 but I'll be reading the reviews and make a call then. Board wise I'll be looking mid-range, just need something that will eventually take 64GB and 6 SATA ports, should be able to pickup a B350 for less than €100, and 32GB DDR4 initially.

I bought 120 AMD shares last June to help fund this, while their shares can be a bit volatile, I'm hoping they take a bit of a stretch when Ryzen finally appears, hope to only flog half to put towards this build, and the remainder next year towards something else - all my kit is either AM2+ or AM3+ so it all needs a refresh.

D.

smacl · 17-02-2017 9:34am

dazberry wrote: »

Budget wise I had a figure in my mind of ~around~ €350 for a new cpu, so it looks like a toss up between a 1700 8/16 or a 1600X 6/12. I'll be replacing a Phenom II x6 so leaning towards the 8/16 but I'll be reading the reviews and make a call then. Board wise I'll be looking mid-range, just need something that will eventually take 64GB and 6 SATA ports, should be able to pickup a B350 for less than €100, and 32GB DDR4 initially.

Interesting, currently running an 8350 @ 4ghz on my main development PC on Windows 7. Might do something like this when I'm upgrading to Windows 10, something I've been putting off for awhile now. Most important thing for me is multi-core performance, as the software I develop and tools I'm using are heavily multi-threaded. So couple of questions for those with more knowledge than myself;

- I wonder how much of the current build I could keep? Obviously case, PSU, drives, and graphics card but what about RAM? Currently have 32gb but not sure on spec.

- There are no Win7 drivers for the Zen, would this mean that Win7 wouldn't run at all, or just that it would run sub-optimally with generic drivers? Reason I ask is that normally on a big OS upgrade I stick a new drive in, install to that, and keep the old drive as a 2nd boot option for legacy installations.

FWIW, the original plan for replacement was this 32 thread xeon build which would be a fantastic PC for my needs but quite a bit more expensive.

K.O.Kiki · 17-02-2017 11:36am

smacl wrote: »

Interesting, currently running an 8350 @ 4ghz on my main development PC on Windows 7. Might do something like this when I'm upgrading to Windows 10, something I've been putting off for awhile now. Most important thing for me is multi-core performance, as the software I develop and tools I'm using are heavily multi-threaded. So couple of questions for those with more knowledge than myself;

- I wonder how much of the current build I could keep? Obviously case, PSU, drives, and graphics card but what about RAM? Currently have 32gb but not sure on spec.

- There are no Win7 drivers for the Zen, would this mean that Win7 wouldn't run at all, or just that it would run sub-optimally with generic drivers? Reason I ask is that normally on a big OS upgrade I stick a new drive in, install to that, and keep the old drive as a 2nd boot option for legacy installations.

FWIW, the original plan for replacement was this 32 thread xeon build which would be a fantastic PC for my needs but quite a bit more expensive.

Your RAM is DDR3 so you can't use it on AM4 motherboards; however you should still get a good price for it on the 2nd-hand market (new kits are hovering around €170 on e-tailers).

AMD Zen Discussion Thread

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