Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

Shefwedfan · 13-10-2019 10:29am

Former Former wrote: »

Depends what the question is.

If we're talking successor to Murray as first-choice in two or three years, then I don't think either McGrath or Marmion is up to it. Both are more than capable but not really what we need IMO.

I think our next long term solutions at hooker, scrum half and maybe out half are yet to be capped.

I agree, I think we need someone to step up, McGrath has done ok at WC but not lighting it up....maybe blade? Maybe O’Sullivan or maybe Cronin isanswer?

Shefwedfan · 13-10-2019 10:31am

Wegians89 wrote: »

Think people forget Connacht and marmion/carty have played and won in the champions cup

I said play regular, they need to be in it every season

As Connacht fans I would think you would want the same

Also JGP hasn’t got many chance in Europe because of the rules so Fardy and Lowe couldn’t start....let’s see this season

ClanofLams · 13-10-2019 10:32am

Shefwedfan wrote: »

When we had no other option, where we had options he hasn’t been picked.....not travelling to WC would suggest Joe and Farrell see better options

They had Luke McGrath who has been ahead of Gibson Park for three years now sitting on the bench......

Not traveling to World Cup suggests McGrath got ahead of Marmion for some reason. It’s the first time in three years he has. He might stay ahead under Farrell, he might not. Fair leap to Gibson-Park getting ahead of either.

Jump_In_Jack · 13-10-2019 10:35am

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I agree, I think we need someone to step up, McGrath has done ok at WC but not lighting it up....maybe blade? Maybe O’Sullivan or maybe Cronin isanswer?

The two players I would see huge potential in are Craig Casey And Caolin Blade.
Both diminutive but aggressive and fiery.

Shefwedfan · 13-10-2019 10:37am

ClanofLams wrote: »

They had Luke McGrath who has been ahead of Gibson Park for three years now sitting on the bench......

Not traveling to World Cup suggests McGrath got ahead of Marmion for some reason. It’s the first time in three years he has. He might stay ahead under Farrell, he might not. Fair leap to Gibson-Park getting ahead of either.

I don’t think JGP is long term option, as I posted above we need a young player to step up....whichever province it’s from.....

Shefwedfan · 13-10-2019 10:38am

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

The two players I would see huge potential in are Craig Casey And Caolin Blade.
Both diminutive but aggressive and fiery.

Forgot about Casey, if he get any chances at Munster?

ClanofLams · 13-10-2019 10:38am

9 isn’t an immediate issue anyway. Murray is 30, form permitting, he’s likely to be first choice for at least the next two seasons.

Wegians89 · 13-10-2019 10:39am

Shefwedfan wrote: »

When we had no other option, where we had options he hasn’t been picked.....not travelling to WC would suggest Joe and Farrell see better options

That’s bull, marmion has been on the bench when e er fit this cycle. It was a real shock to most that he was left at home and if it wasn’t for toner being left home the media would have made a bigger deal. Reasons for McGrath being picked we’re hes a better defender and he has a better kicking game, the more pragmatic aspects of Schmidt’s game plan. If the values and styles of the game plan were more expansive or entertaining marmion would have got the nod

Shefwedfan · 13-10-2019 10:40am

ClanofLams wrote: »

9 isn’t an immediate issue anyway. Murray is 30, form permitting, he’s likely to be first choice for at least the next two seasons.

I doubt he will make another WC so they need to pick 2 young 9s now and start building them up now

Jump_In_Jack · 13-10-2019 10:41am

Wegians89 wrote: »

That’s bull, marmion has been on the bench when e er fit this cycle. It was a real shock to most that he was left at home and if it wasn’t for toner being left home the media would have made a bigger deal. Reasons for McGrath being picked we’re hes a better defender and he has a better kicking game, the more pragmatic aspects of Schmidt’s game plan. If the values and styles of the game plan were more expansive or entertaining marmion would have got the nod

No, Joe Schmidt gave a very specific reason, he said they were equal in defence and attack but McGrath has a slightly better kicking game.

ClanofLams · 13-10-2019 10:42am

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I don’t think JGP is long term option, as I posted above we need a young player to step up....whichever province it’s from.....

You said he might jump everyone. He’s 27 with one champions cup start to his name, sure there were times he was out of 23 due to Kolpak but there were plenty of games he was on the bench too. As I said it’s a fair leap for him to jump everyone.

Wegians89 · 13-10-2019 10:42am

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I said play regular, they need to be in it every season

As Connacht fans I would think you would want the same

Also JGP hasn’t got many chance in Europe because of the rules so Fardy and Lowe couldn’t start....let’s see this season

Oh I do agree every season would be ideal and I would be very optimistic that the current playing pool and coaching staff are capable of doing that for Connacht. I know you’re not cartys biggest fan but can you imagine the improvement in him this time next year after a season where he’d been thrown in at the deep end on the international stage, learnt a lot from the World Cup exposure and played in champions cup? I’m very excited to see that carty.

Wegians89 · 13-10-2019 10:44am

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

No, Joe Schmidt gave a very specific reason, he said they were equal in defence and attack but McGrath has a slightly better kicking game.

The point was marmion was the 2nd choice 9 for the whole cycle bar the World Cup, not that he was the only option available like you said

Shefwedfan · 13-10-2019 10:44am

ClanofLams wrote: »

You said he might jump everyone. He’s 27 with one champions cup start to his name, sure there were times he was out of 23 due to Kolpak but there were plenty of games he was on the bench too. As I said it’s a fair leap for him to jump everyone.

Sorry to be clear he could jump Marmion and McGrath as back up to Murray.....Could

The replacement for Murray needs to come from the young Irish 9 in the provinces

ClanofLams · 13-10-2019 10:45am

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I doubt he will make another WC so they need to pick 2 young 9s now and start building them up now

They don’t and won’t. Andy Farrell is going to be under pressure to maintain standards, he’ll want to get as good a start as possible and certainly won’t be focusing on a World Cup four years away that he may or may not be around for. Murray could even make that World Cup, Sexton is the same age now as he will be in 2023.

Jump_In_Jack · 13-10-2019 10:47am

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Forgot about Casey, if he get any chances at Munster?

Mathewson will be gone before Christmas but Murray will return then so game time will be a problem.
McCarthy, Cronin still ahead of Casey at the moment based on selections this season, and Stafford is not to be dismissed as competition also.
It’s great though because if Casey has what it takes to push past those guys he will have to earn it and drive his standards up.
His pass is reminiscent of Stringer, like a bullet and on the money, gives the backs an unbelievable platform, like handing it to them on a plate to attack the line every time.

Wegians89 · 13-10-2019 10:47am

Just like to say I’m very biased in the marmion vs McGrath thing, kinda sick of talking about it, so sorry for bringing it up again

Shefwedfan · 13-10-2019 10:49am

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Mathewson will be gone before Christmas but Murray will return then so game time will be a problem.
McCarthy, Cronin still ahead of Casey at the moment based on selections this season, and Stafford is not to be dismissed as competition also.
It’s great though because if Casey has what it takes to push past those guys he will have to earn it and drive his standards up.
His pass is reminiscent of Stringer, Like a bullet and On the money, gives the backs an unbelievable platform, like handing it to them on a plate to attack the line every time.

Seen a lot of him in u20 really exciting.....

That’s why I had the problem with Mathewson signing....they should have been playing all the young 9 during the WC....

If another 12 months goes on and he isn’t playing then IRFU should step in and move him to another province

Wegians89 · 13-10-2019 10:50am

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Mathewson will be gone before Christmas but Murray will return then so game time will be a problem.
McCarthy, Cronin still ahead of Casey at the moment based on selections this season, and Stafford is not to be dismissed as competition also.
It’s great though because if Casey has what it takes to push past those guys he will have to earn it and drive his standards up.
His pass is reminiscent of Stringer, like a bullet and on the money, gives the backs an unbelievable platform, like handing it to them on a plate to attack the line every time.

I’d be very surprised if Casey didn’t pass out croinin before the end of the season. Not so sure he’ll pass out McCarthy who seems to be going well

Jump_In_Jack · 13-10-2019 10:51am

Wegians89 wrote: »

The point was marmion was the 2nd choice 9 for the whole cycle bar the World Cup, not that he was the only option available like you said

You’re attributing a post to me that wasn’t mine.

My only point was that Joe Schmidt made it very clear why McGrath edged Marmion, and it was kicking only, not defence. He was very specific about saying that.

Wegians89 · 13-10-2019 10:51am

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Seen a lot of him in u20 really exciting.....

That’s why I had the problem with Mathewson signing....they should have been playing all the young 9 during the WC....

If another 12 months goes on and he isn’t playing then IRFU should step in and move him to another province

I’d agree with this, they have plenty of talent to get by with out Mathewson

Shefwedfan · 13-10-2019 10:52am

Wegians89 wrote: »

Just like to say I’m very biased in the marmion vs McGrath thing, kinda sick of talking about it, so sorry for bringing it up again

I hadn’t noticed....haha

In regards to McGrath he is hugely underrated by people on here but I would never see him as a long term replacement for Murray

I put Marmion, JGP and Cooney in that pot, ok as a back up but not really a long term starter

Shefwedfan · 13-10-2019 11:02am

Hooker

What’s the SA for Munster? He is qualified now after WC?

I would drop Cronin and Best after WC out of squad....Scannell as starter and look at two options which we will bring to next WC all working out well

Wegians89 · 13-10-2019 11:08am

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Hooker

What’s the SA for Munster? He is qualified now after WC?

I would drop Cronin and Best after WC out of squad....Scannell as starter and look at two options which we will bring to next WC all working out well

Marshall from NZ? He qualifies soon.

Hooker could be tricky for a year or two. Similar to scrum half there’s a pool of decent players who probably aren’t Going to be world class. Scannell would be the stand out, with the likes of herring, Tracy Marshall, delahunt and heffernan there’s abouts. I’d expect a few to pick up random caps with the likes of kelleher and Tierney-Martin are developed. Those two have very high potential and will be a great battle for years hopefully. I’d expect kelleher to get capped soon

salmocab · 13-10-2019 11:18am

Wegians89 wrote: »

Just like to say I’m very biased in the marmion vs McGrath thing, kinda sick of talking about it, so sorry for bringing it up again

The thing is pretty much everyone has biases about players, often it’s at the surface as pure provincialism but I think more often it’s purely that as supporters of certain provinces we see a particular player more so subconsciously decide he’s better than the guy from elsewhere but it’s often only based on seeing him a lot more.

Wegians89 · 13-10-2019 11:21am

salmocab wrote: »

The thing is pretty much everyone has biases about players, often it’s at the surface as pure provincialism but I think more often it’s purely that as supporters of certain provinces we see a particular player more so subconsciously decide he’s better than the guy from elsewhere but it’s often only based on seeing him a lot more.

This is very true, I try to watch as much of the provinces as I can but I’d happily miss a Munster, ulster or Leinster match if I had to, but it has to big a big event to miss a Connacht one

troyzer · 13-10-2019 12:58pm

So.....New Zealand then....

joseywhales · 13-10-2019 1:00pm

That six point loss is not looking so bad anymore

Nigzcurran · 13-10-2019 1:08pm

So if Scotland win and Japan gets TBP and LBP do we go home?

troyzer · 13-10-2019 1:08pm

Nigzcurran wrote: »

So if Scotland win and Japan gets TBP and LBP do we go home?

No, we're through no matter what.

Squidgy Black · 13-10-2019 1:09pm

Nigzcurran wrote: »

So if Scotland win and Japan gets TBP and LBP do we go home?

No, we can't be caught by Scotland

Nigzcurran · 13-10-2019 1:10pm

Cheers, so what do Scotland need to go through? Sorry I missed the pre match chat

Squidgy Black · 13-10-2019 1:11pm

Nigzcurran wrote: »

Cheers, so what do Scotland need to go through? Sorry I missed the pre match chat

Need to win and deny Japan a losing bonus point, so win by more than 7

Nigzcurran · 13-10-2019 1:13pm

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Need to win and deny Japan a losing bonus point, so win by more than 7

Ah ok thanks yep that makes sense now

joseywhales · 13-10-2019 1:25pm

Are they realistically going to get 3 scores in 13 minutes?

Nigzcurran · 13-10-2019 1:31pm

joseywhales wrote: »

Are they realistically going to get 3 scores in 13 minutes?

Unfortunately not but it’s a good game to watch, bit too much stop start now though

joseywhales · 13-10-2019 1:37pm

Collapsing the scrum, so frustrating

joseywhales · 13-10-2019 1:37pm

Kick penalty

Shefwedfan · 13-10-2019 1:39pm

For everyone complaining about Ireland and how terrible we are

Imagine been a Scottish fan.....the team and management never shut up about how good they are. Gregor got the previous manager sacked so he could take over and they have delivered nothing. They would have been better sticking with Cotter

Watching on ITV and they keep talking about the spirit of Twickenham.....a game which they couldn't even win.....

Niallof9 · 13-10-2019 1:46pm

That’s that so. Four year cycles etc. talking of South Africa has been foolhardy for us all

We have shown nothing in the last year to worry New Zealand. 2018 seems an age away.

sydthebeat · 13-10-2019 1:47pm

And for those complaining about how Ireland play, and how great and expansive Japans play is..

Ireland have a points difference of +94 to japan's +53....

Rugby is a game where you need to play both sides of the ball.

Bring on the all blacks!!

Niallof9 · 13-10-2019 1:50pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

And for those complaining about how Ireland play, and how great and expansive Japans play is..

Ireland have a points difference of +94 to japan's +53....

Rugby is a game where you need to play both sides of the ball.

Bring on the all blacks!!

Summed up by the 20 phases under the Samoan posts. It’s ugly rugby lets at least be honest but winning rugby in certain situations. Hats off to Japan and their kiwi coaching for playing with width, pace, offloading.

Squidgy Black · 13-10-2019 1:52pm

Niallof9 wrote: »

Summed up by the 20 phases under the Samoan posts. It’s ugly rugby lets at least be honest but winning rugby in certain situations. Hats off to Japan and their kiwi coaching for playing with width, pace, offloading.

We were down to 14 men, and trying to run down the clock. They're the exact situations that you play 'ugly rugby'.

DGRulz · 13-10-2019 1:53pm

For all the talk of how imaginative and skillful Japan are with the ball they're incredibly naive at times. Several times this world cup they've insisted on going for the try when all they needed was 3 points.

Sanjuro · 13-10-2019 1:55pm

Niallof9 wrote: »

Summed up by the 20 phases under the Samoan posts. It’s ugly rugby lets at least be honest but winning rugby in certain situations. Hats off to Japan and their kiwi coaching for playing with width, pace, offloading.

Nonsense. Ireland has the game won, we're down to 14 and didn't have to give anything away. All they had to do is keep it tight and wind the clock down. And they still scored.

BonnieSituation · 13-10-2019 1:56pm

DGRulz wrote: »

For all the talk of how imaginative and skillful Japan are with the ball they're incredibly naive at times. Several times this world cup they've insisted on going for the try when all they needed was 3 points.

Sounds familiar.

Niallof9 · 13-10-2019 1:58pm

Sanjuro wrote: »

Nonsense. Ireland has the game won, we're down to 14 and didn't have to give anything away. All they had to do is keep it tight and wind the clock down. And they still scored.

But we did the exact same thing in multiple games. Japan for instance

Oh yeah sorry I forgot we have hidden moves we will see them next week hopefully

Cypher_sounds · 13-10-2019 2:02pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

And for those complaining about how Ireland play, and how great and expansive Japans play is..

Ireland have a points difference of +94 to japan's +53....

Rugby is a game where you need to play both sides of the ball.

Bring on the all blacks!!

When on form we play the brand of rugby that the all blacks don’t like. We slow the game down. We bash them up front.
NZ want every team to throw the ball around, that’s when they are at their best. It’s gonna be fascinating next weekend.

Niallof9 · 13-10-2019 2:12pm

Cypher_sounds wrote: »

When on form we play the brand of rugby that the all blacks don’t like. We slow the game down. We bash them up front.
NZ want every team to throw the ball around, that’s when they are at their best. It’s gonna be fascinating next weekend.

That’s true. Hopefully we have the game of our lives. Can’t change our style now

AbusesToilets · 13-10-2019 2:13pm

I'm really excited for the match myself. We usually play NZ tight, potentially last game ever for coach and captain. Should be a cracker.

Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

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