Registration of classic vehicles after Brexit

Esel · 07-12-2020 9:04pm

dublin7runner wrote: »

Hi Guys,

If you import a vehicle from NI after brexit, I believe by reading the revenue website you dont have to pay VAT or DUTY is this true? ( If its not a new vehicle )

Only the VRT has to be paid.

Thanks

Someone recently posted a link to the Revenue site where that was stated alright.

Edit: found the link

https://www.revenue.ie/en/customs-traders-and-agents/brexit/brexit-for-individuals/importing-a-vehicle-from-great-britain-gb-or-northern-ireland.aspx

RobAMerc · 07-12-2020 9:49pm

so you'll be able to reg a car in NI and then bring it down ? Is there a way to know its NI reg other than the address on the V5 ?
As far as I know NI cars brought over from UK to NI currently dont have to be re-reg'd do they ?

w124man · 07-12-2020 10:37pm

RobAMerc wrote: »

so you'll be able to reg a car in NI and then bring it down ? Is there a way to know its NI reg other than the address on the V5 ?
As far as I know NI cars brought over from UK to NI currently dont have to be re-reg'd do they ?

Its the details on the V5 that they use. If it has an NI address then it may be okay but no one knows for sure yet

Isambard · 08-12-2020 9:14am

w124man wrote: »

Its the details on the V5 that they use. If it has an NI address then it may be okay but no one knows for sure yet

absolutely, and it supposes there is a deal done.

unkel · 08-12-2020 10:37am

Hold on lads, the revenue site is running ahead of itself like I said a few weeks ago. There is NO deal done yet on the backstop at all. As things stand any car coming into Ireland from the UK (and that includes Northern Ireland) from next month is subject to import duty and VAT (and VRT) as per international trading agreements

KevRossi · 09-12-2020 12:39am

If VAT is applied, then I wonder if you can claim back on VAT owed from UK Revenue once the car is registered here.

I've done this in Germany a few times exporting trucks to Africa, takes about 2 months and a bit of paperwork. Would be handy if it applied to UK-Ireland as well.

I suppose if the NI exemption does happen then there will be some dealers in NI taking cars from the mainland, changing the address and selling them on down here. Or there will be a system where you find a car from a UK dealer, bring it to NI, register it there under some companies name and then 'purchase' it from them. Could be an opening there for a business if a deal is done on the backstop.

lomb · 09-12-2020 3:55am

A deal will happen but it could be next year...

unkel · 09-12-2020 10:21am

KevRossi wrote: »

I suppose if the NI exemption does happen then there will be some dealers in NI taking cars from the mainland, changing the address and selling them on down here. Or there will be a system where you find a car from a UK dealer, bring it to NI, register it there under some companies name and then 'purchase' it from them.

Exactly. The modern equivalent of the butter smuggling across the border. Will be a lovely source of income for the paramilitaries and other criminals :rolleyes:

galwaytt · 09-12-2020 10:47am

unkel wrote: »

Hold on lads, the revenue site is running ahead of itself like I said a few weeks ago. There is NO deal done yet on the backstop at all. As things stand any car coming into Ireland from the UK (and that includes Northern Ireland) from next month is subject to import duty and VAT (and VRT) as per international trading agreements

Not according to the Revenue site today. And it says VAT will only be for new cars.

It says you may (assume "will") have to pay Customs Duty for cars from Great Britain. NI is not in Great Britain. Which is why it's referred to as 'Great Britain & Northern Ireland'. So the arrangements for NI may be unique.

So the Revenue statement here: https://www.revenue.ie/en/customs-traders-and-agents/brexit/brexit-for-individuals/importing-a-vehicle-from-great-britain-gb-or-northern-ireland.aspx stating Customs won't apply to NI imports.

So, I rang the VRT Inspection line just now and asked:

For a vehicle imported into the State before the deadline of 31st December, and where a booking is made online before 31st December, but no VRT inspection is possible (because she just confirmed there is no availability- in Galway at least) until 2nd week of January. I asked what is the story on the VRT/Customs amount to be paid. The import having taken place, and the car in the State, and the Declaration being made then..........

The lady told me they don't know, as Revenue hasn't told them, and they literally have no idea.

There's a car in NI I've been watching, and I'm curious how those NI traders are viewing all their potential stock becoming unsaleable to RoI customers due to the impending deadline. To wit, the car dropped £1200 since yesterday......

unkel · 09-12-2020 10:56am

galwaytt wrote: »

Not according to the Revenue site today. And it says VAT will only be for new cars.

That's my point. Their site is wrong. Very wrong as things stand, unless a deal with a backstop is done at the last minute.

And yes, the value of cars on UK plates on this island that were destined to be sold in the Republic, will likely drop like a brick as I expected. Interesting that you have seen it happen already...

galwaytt · 09-12-2020 12:34pm

unkel wrote: »

That's my point. Their site is wrong. Very wrong as things stand, unless a deal with a backstop is done at the last minute.

And yes, the value of cars on UK plates on this island that were destined to be sold in the Republic, will likely drop like a brick as I expected. Interesting that you have seen it happen already...

I think they fact they can't tell VRT offices that it'll be either Option A or Option B (or, indeed, Option C) is shocking. The no of outcomes is small, even a bloody excel sheet would only take 10 minutes.

Would it be that much to ask...............oh, wait.......... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Yeah, I noticed an awful lot of stock being piled into garage forecourts around me recently, and I'd say all those small traders in NI who have stuff from GB (sic) but with an eye to RoI as the outlet must surely be wondering what/if they have a bunch of unsaleable-to-RoI cars outside the door in 2 weeks time.............

w124man · 09-12-2020 9:17pm

I dont think its fair to be giving out about either the VRT or Revenue as neither knows what is going to happen until it happens.

However, if cars in the North could be tariff and VAT free if we go up there and buy, is it not the case that 'the North' will have to pay VAT and tariffs on UK cars coming in as they are possibly still in the EU customs area?

Isambard · 09-12-2020 9:25pm

w124man wrote: »

I dont think its fair to be giving out about either the VRT or Revenue as neither knows what is going to happen until it happens.

However, if cars in the North could be tariff and VAT free if we go up there and buy, is it not the case that 'the North' will have to pay VAT and tariffs on UK cars coming in as they are possibly still in the EU customs area?

i think that's already been said. I don't know how reliable that is, but NI dealers will have to pay VAT on the whole value of a GB car rather than just on the profit margin as now, eroding the benefit of buying "up North"

hi5 · 10-12-2020 12:16pm

It has to do with the Northern Ireland Protocol.

Goods exported from Britain to NI that are not 'at risk' of being re exported to the EU will not have to pay tariffs.
Goods that may be deemed to be 'at risk' will pay tariffs and then refunded once proven they were not re exported to the EU.
I would say second hand cars would be 'at risk' and so tariffs will have to be paid between GB and NI.

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/brexit-deal-northern-ireland-protocol

Customs, movement of goods

For Northern Ireland–Republic of Ireland trade, the EU’s Union Customs Code (customs rules) apply and there would be no tariffs or restrictions.

Goods moving directly from Great Britain to Northern Ireland won’t be subject to a tariff unless the good is “at risk” of being moved into the EU afterwards. Likewise, goods from third countries entering Northern Ireland will be subject to the UK tariff, unless they are at risk of being moved to the EU.

For goods deemed “at risk”, the EU tariff will be applied. If the UK tariff is lower, and those goods are proved to have stayed in Northern Ireland, the UK can reimburse traders.

The Joint Committee will establish further conditions under which goods coming into Northern Ireland from Great Britain would have to pay the EU tariff.

No duties will be paid on personal baggage and goods of “negligible value”, which will be defined by the Joint Committee.

unkel · 10-12-2020 12:35pm

Every single car exported from Britain to NI after 01/01/2021 in a no deal brexit is at risk of being moved into the EU (Ireland) afterwards.

I think it's safe to say that cars will not be exempt unless the implementation of this is completely retarded / not enforced

galwaytt · 10-12-2020 2:10pm

I enquired of Revenue for clarification of vehicles imported before Christmas, but no possible VRT inspection being available, of what the VRT/import situation will be afterwards, but still awaiting a response.

They've literally had 4 years to have a plan for this, there's no excuse for them not having a hard Brexit plan. If they don't, they're no better than the clowns on the other side of the Irish Sea.

KevRossi · 10-12-2020 6:02pm

I find it odd that the government/Revenue never looked into getting an exemption for 2nd hand cars. The VRT on them is a majpr contribution to the Irish budget. Surely they're not going to just forget about this over night. I read before that it's worth just over a billion euro a year for second hand cars.

92,508 used cars were imported into Ireland in 2018
49.2% of these vehicles were between three and five years old
4.8% of these vehicles were over 10 years old
141,931 fewer vehicles were bought and registered in 2017 than the previous year
8,131 vehicles were imported into Ireland in January 2019
The January 2019 figure is an increase of 1.3% in January 2018
Sales of new cars bought in Ireland has decreased in 2019 by 4.6%

macplaxton · 10-12-2020 9:37pm

galwaytt wrote: »

I enquired of Revenue for clarification of vehicles imported before Christmas, but no possible VRT inspection being available, of what the VRT/import situation will be afterwards, but still awaiting a response.

Don't hold your breath. I made an enquiry at the end of October. Got a reply after 6 days which just had a Word doc attached, which had links to how to register a vehicle (currently).

The key is an invoice dated.

In my case I probably have the invoice for one (dated 1991

)

I'll post some photos up soon. Only way I can think of time-stamping that they were in State before year end.

Having said that, it might be down to the old hand-written receipt being accepted.

Captain Lugger · 28-12-2020 3:35pm

This is dispiriting. I live near enough to the main MG dealer in Tyrone, and I've had my eye on the compact MG3 which isn't currently available in the Republic. And I won't be in a position to buy any new/newish car for a few months yet. Oh well, will have to scour the 1200 page withdrawal agreement to find out the devil in the detail.

unkel · 28-12-2020 3:58pm

Captain Lugger wrote: »

This is dispiriting. I live near enough to the main MG dealer in Tyrone, and I've had my eye on the compact MG3 which isn't currently available in the Republic. And I won't be in a position to buy any new/newish car for a few months yet. Oh well, will have to scour the 1200 page withdrawal agreement to find out the devil in the detail.

In case you hadn't noticed, this is the classic cars forum

Welcome to boards anyway. And there are now several official MG dealers in the Republic, like Frank Keane. You should be able to buy a brand new MG3 from them.

Captain Lugger · 29-12-2020 12:50pm

unkel wrote: »

In case you hadn't noticed, this is the classic cars forum

Welcome to boards anyway. And there are now several official MG dealers in the Republic, like Frank Keane. You should be able to buy a brand new MG3 from them.

Thanks! Noted. Its the default boards on signup thing threw me off the right track.

w124man · 29-12-2020 8:39pm

KevRossi wrote: »

I find it odd that the government/Revenue never looked into getting an exemption for 2nd hand cars. The VRT on them is a majpr contribution to the Irish budget.

Did you not notice that the government are actively trying to discourage the importation of secondhand cars and encouraging the purchase of those ridiculous battery cars. Fines for not reaching the Co2 targets are expensive too.

unkel · 29-12-2020 9:22pm

w124man wrote: »

Did you not notice that the government are actively trying to discourage the importation of secondhand cars and encouraging the purchase of those ridiculous battery cars. Fines for not reaching the Co2 targets are expensive too.

LOL that's exactly why. We need to lower our emissions so import EVs, not cancerous diesels, from the UK

Tae laidir · 30-12-2020 12:54am

w124man wrote: »

Did you not notice that the government are actively trying to discourage the importation of secondhand cars and encouraging the purchase of those ridiculous battery cars. Fines for not reaching the Co2 targets are expensive too.

I believe CO2 targets and fines are only based on new vehicle sales.

w124man · 30-12-2020 6:32pm

Tae laidir wrote: »

I believe CO2 targets and fines are only based on new vehicle sales.

I think Ireland's Co2 targets are based on a lot more than just new vehicle sales.

macplaxton · 30-12-2020 11:57pm

Ok, less of the modern stuff and more about 20+ stuff.

w124man · 01-01-2021 7:45pm

Its possible that if you bring a car in from the UK via the North, you will have to pay VAT and duty as the North are considered in the EU as the 'border' is down the Irish sea. It seems as though if the value is over £135 then VAT and duty apply.

I'm not 100% sure though but time will tell

Isambard · 01-01-2021 7:57pm

w124man wrote: »

Its possible that if you bring a car in from the UK via the North, you will have to pay VAT and duty as the North are considered in the EU as the 'border' is down the Irish sea. It seems as though if the value is over £135 then VAT and duty apply.

I'm not 100% sure though but time will tell

If you can't prove it was in the North pre 2021 there will be 21% VAT charged, no duty though, that's gone by the board in the "deal"

https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/guide-to-vrt/registration-of-imported-used-vehicles/vehicles-imported-from-gb-and-ni.aspx

unkel · 01-01-2021 8:17pm

Isambard wrote: »

If you can't prove it was in the North pre 2021 there will be 21% VAT charged, no duty though, that's gone by the board in the "deal"

And if the car was in the North by 31/12/2020, then there is no VAT if you import it down here?

Isambard · 01-01-2021 8:29pm

unkel wrote: »

And if the car was in the North by 31/12/2020, then there is no VAT if you import it down here?

Looks that way

unkel · 01-01-2021 8:33pm

Isambard wrote: »

Looks that way

Damn. I should have brought 100 Teslas into the north last month

Isambard · 01-01-2021 8:42pm

i reckon you still can, see the link! well maybe not you, but a NI Resident or business.

unkel · 01-01-2021 9:00pm

You can, but the aim would be to sell them down here for a profit. That no longer works as 21% VAT is due on them (plus a bit of VRT) when you bring them in.

w124man · 01-01-2021 10:48pm

unkel wrote: »

Damn. I should have brought 100 Teslas into the north last month

Why would anyone want to do that?

From the Revenue site on NI vehicles. Not as straightforward as one would hope.

Proof will be in the form of:

A copy of the customs declaration showing the importation of the vehicle into Northern Ireland
or A T2L document issued by HMRC. The vehicle must be identifiable from the supporting documentation.

You should not purchase a vehicle from Northern Ireland with either:

a Great Britain registration
or
which had previously been registered in Great Britain where this documentation is not available.

unkel · 01-01-2021 10:57pm

Even for cars "imported" into Northern Ireland last year?

Isambard · 02-01-2021 10:29am

unkel wrote: »

You can, but the aim would be to sell them down here for a profit. That no longer works as 21% VAT is due on them (plus a bit of VRT) when you bring them in.

you need to read the link. A qualifying person or organisation can sell a car into the Republic tax free as I read it provided they have all their paperwork "ducks in a row"

Winterman1234 · 02-01-2021 11:58pm

Sorry for the repeat question. But I want to reassure myself that I am correct. Looking to "purchase" a 30 year old car from Northern Ireland. Car just turns 30 on the 7th of January 2021. The car was only registered in northern Ireland by the gentlemen in July 2020.
Am I reading this correct that this car will not aquire any VAT, so should just be the €200 vrt.

Just looking for some reassurance before I start any import process. Thanks for any feedback.

BorneTobyWilde · 03-01-2021 12:05am

UK will need to weaken their currency for people to trade with them. Yet they seem to want it to be stronger, weird. Everyone wants a weak currency, China love it . If one euro only got you 50p then who the fck would buy anything in uk.

unkel · 03-01-2021 12:15am

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

UK will need to weaken their currency for people to trade with them. Yet they seem to want it to be stronger, weird. Everyone wants a weak currency, China love it . If one euro only got you 50p then who the fck would buy anything in uk.

It's not that simple. A weak currency makes stuff you need to import expensive. Of course China loves it, but that's because they export a lot more than they import. That is not the case for Britain, which imports a lot more than it exports. For them a strong Sterling is better.

BorneTobyWilde · 03-01-2021 4:20pm

A parity, or something close would ease the pain of the VAT though .

w124man · 03-01-2021 6:11pm

Its going the wrong way at the moment but who knows where its going

Tomal · 08-01-2021 3:05pm

Hi.

Would be grateful for clarification to get me through the haze of VAT, Import declarations etc....

If I want to buy a 31 year old vehicle registered on NI plates but I think could have been stored in ROI what will I have to pay above the price and VRT. Will I have VRT liabilities? Do I pay VAT or import duties.

Thanks for reading. Any advice welcome?

Tomal · 08-01-2021 3:05pm

Oh and car originally from UK into NI - all pre 2021.

Emmetb786 · 08-01-2021 5:21pm

Does anyone have any idea how this will affect me importing a vintage car? Online in the FAQ, it states that clearing a vintage car (over 30 years old) is 200 euro. I feel as if there is probably some hidden cost that I’m missing and I don’t want to get an unwanted surprise when I go to clear it. Would anyone know if this would affect me importing a 1987 e30 bmw 325i sport ? Any help would be greatly appreciated as I’m trying to gauge the total cost of the purchase before I make it. Thanks in advance !

MAJJ · 08-01-2021 5:24pm

Emmetb786 wrote: »

Does anyone have any idea how this will affect me importing a vintage car? Online in the FAQ, it states that clearing a vintage car (over 30 years old) is 200 euro. I feel as if there is probably some hidden cost that I’m missing and I don’t want to get an unwanted surprise when I go to clear it. Would anyone know if this would affect me importing a 1987 e30 bmw 325i sport ? Any help would be greatly appreciated as I’m trying to gauge the total cost of the purchase before I make it. Thanks in advance !

I don't have an answer but am likely doing the same shortly for a 30 year old Merc 300CE C124. I'd appreciate you sharing how you get on and good luck with it.

Neilw · 08-01-2021 9:30pm

Emmetb786 wrote: »

Does anyone have any idea how this will affect me importing a vintage car? Online in the FAQ, it states that clearing a vintage car (over 30 years old) is 200 euro. I feel as if there is probably some hidden cost that I’m missing and I don’t want to get an unwanted surprise when I go to clear it. Would anyone know if this would affect me importing a 1987 e30 bmw 325i sport ? Any help would be greatly appreciated as I’m trying to gauge the total cost of the purchase before I make it. Thanks in advance !

If it’s from the UK you’ll have to pay 21% vat on the value of the car, this is collected at the port of entry.
Once that’s paid the car will be released and you’ll have 30 days to get a vrt inspection done, then pay your €200.

Car99 · 08-01-2021 10:19pm

Emmetb786 wrote: »

Does anyone have any idea how this will affect me importing a vintage car? Online in the FAQ, it states that clearing a vintage car (over 30 years old) is 200 euro. I feel as if there is probably some hidden cost that I’m missing and I don’t want to get an unwanted surprise when I go to clear it. Would anyone know if this would affect me importing a 1987 e30 bmw 325i sport ? Any help would be greatly appreciated as I’m trying to gauge the total cost of the purchase before I make it. Thanks in advance !

VRT will still be €200 . Whether VAT is charged or not depends on where the car us being imported from.

w124man · 08-01-2021 10:39pm

Emmetb786 wrote: »

Online in the FAQ, it states that clearing a vintage car (over 30 years old) is 200 euro.

VRT is €200. VAT and duty if applicable are separate.

Isambard · 09-01-2021 10:46am

Neilw wrote: »

If it’s from the UK you’ll have to pay 21% vat on the value of the car, this is collected at the port of entry.
Once that’s paid the car will be released and you’ll have 30 days to get a vrt inspection done, then pay your €200.

It's not paid at the Port, you complete an electronic declaration in advance of import and it's collected with the VRT. You can't VRT without the declaration. Thus it covers the VAT on NI imports too.

ccmp · 09-01-2021 12:03pm

looks like the nct cert of equivalence is a thing of the past. I presented car on December 10 after waiting a month for the date. Didn't get my figure of 200 until Thursday. Signs up at nct saying that they no longer accept the mot.
Bit unfair in my case when I should have had it all done in december. Such is life.

Registration of classic vehicles after Brexit

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