Delivery driver sues pub for defamation after barman said €10 note was fake.

MilesMorales1 · 09-02-2018 9:01pm #1

A man says he was defamed when he was told by a barman that a €10 note he used to pay for a pint of lager was fake, the High Court heard.
Leonard Nolan (53) sued Laurence Lounge Ltd, trading as Grace's Pub of Rathmines, Dublin, for alleged defamation in the pub on April 24, 2013.
He was awarded €5,000 plus costs in the Circuit Court in 2016.

The pub appealed to the High Court which, on Friday, adjourned the matter to next week for legal submissions.

Asked by his counsel Jeremy Maher how he felt: "First I was nervous then I was devastated, words could not describe what I felt at being called a cheat".

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/delivery-driver-sues-south-dublin-pub-for-defamation-after-barman-said-10-note-was-fake-high-court-hears-36587091.html
Seems a bit strong to get money and claim to be defamed about it. I've been questioned about the legitimacy of money before when buying or selling in various shops or restaurants, its a tad irritating but not giving me an anxiety attack.

Odyssey 2005 · 09-02-2018 9:04pm

Compo culture. Probably needed the money to get a curry.

:).
Not a small chap.

Gatling · 09-02-2018 9:06pm

MilesMorales1 wrote: »

Seems a bit strong to get money and claim to be defamed about it. I've been questioned about the legitimacy of money before when buying or selling in various shops or restaurants, its a tad irritating but not giving me an anxiety attack.

Even worse is claiming that the local Garda did tests on the note to confirm it was genuine ,only for local Gardai to take the stand as tell the court no such tests are done at any stations and they were not asked by anyone on the particular day at the station ,
So it is blatantly obvious he's lying about what he is claiming,
But expect him to receive compensation of some sort

SEPT 23 1989 · 09-02-2018 9:11pm

Leonard was nervous and devastated

badboyblast · 09-02-2018 9:12pm

Wasters , how are we entertaining them , the mind boggles

SeaFields · 09-02-2018 9:15pm

Gatling wrote: »

But expect him to receive compensation of some sort

Well he has. €5k awarded by the circuit court. The pub has appealed it to the high. If overturned and the costs are awarded against him in the high, he won't be drinking any pints for awhile.

enricoh · 09-02-2018 9:19pm

A fairly sensitive soul. A 53 year old delivery driver I would have thought would be used to the trials and tribulations of life. Obviously not, especially with no win no fee solicitors about!

whisky_galore · 09-02-2018 9:21pm

Fast food delivery man, I'd say he takes some work home with him.

We have turned into one compo chasing, litigious little country.

99 Bortles of Beer · 09-02-2018 9:25pm

Wait a minute.

His story is that he left the pub, got it checked by the Gardaí and then went back into the pub to inform the barman that the Gardaí had verified it was real.

The Gardaí - on the surface of it, as credible a witness you could have in an Irish court case - have denied this and said they don't even have such a machine to check the legitimacy of notes.

And he WON the case?

What the fúck is wrong with the courts?

Odhinn · 09-02-2018 9:28pm

I thought defamation had to be written/published...

badboyblast · 09-02-2018 9:29pm

A friend of mine clipped another drivers wing mirror in traffic and they claimed for whiplash.

cars were barely moving , the claimant said she couldn't attend work, my friend knew where she worked ( polish community , they all know each other ) and went and took pictures of her at work and her car being there and gave them to the insurance company but they said they couldn't use them .

They also said they were going to pay out as when the judge sees there was impact he will rule against them , over ten grand the c##£ got for a broken wing mirror.

My friend had to sell their car and go down to one car between them after the claim as the insurance was too high , this country is a joke when it comes to claims

Roger Hassenforder · 09-02-2018 9:30pm

The bottom button on the shirt said "fcuk this" and let go...

Cherry_Cola · 09-02-2018 9:31pm

Haha the gut hanging out in the picture of him and all! Maybe he needs the money for tailored clothes!

Atoms for Peace · 09-02-2018 9:46pm

"Under common law, to constitute defamation, a claim must generally be false and must have been made to someone other than the person defamed.[2] Some common law jurisdictions also distinguish between spoken defamation, called slander, and defamation in other media such as printed words or images, called libel.[3]"

According to wikipedia it wasn't even defamation.

MilesMorales1 · 09-02-2018 9:48pm

Odhinn wrote: »

I thought defamation had to be written/published...

Isn't that Libel?

beertons · 09-02-2018 9:54pm

Wasn't even the same note Des was given, that was presented in court. And they sided with yer man anyway. Good job he likes take aways, as he'll be drinking a fair bit at home from now on. The likes of him won't be welcome in many a public house.

Obi_Wan_Kenobi · 09-02-2018 9:56pm

Something needs to be done about this compo entitlement culture, otherwise insurance will just be unaffordable for the rest of us plebs.

BattleCorp · 09-02-2018 10:08pm

SeaFields wrote: »

Well he has. €5k awarded by the circuit court. The pub has appealed it to the high. If overturned and the costs are awarded against him in the high, he won't be drinking any pints for awhile.

If he has feck all money or assets, it won't really matter if costs are awarded against him as he won't be able to pay them.

I'm surprised that the pub appealed €5k. It's highly likely that if the pub win, they will end up paying their own costs which could easily be well in excess of the circuit court costs.

wyf437gn6btzue · 09-02-2018 10:21pm

I`m starting to get more and more convinced that we are starting to pour an unhealthy amount of resources into stupid people.

How on earth does any sane judge decide to relieve a business of over 5k to give to some doughnut who got his feelings hurt

enricoh · 09-02-2018 11:25pm

Just saw the photo of him, I wonder do any of the customers chips or chicken balls etc go astray during the delivery!

NinjaTruncs · 09-02-2018 11:33pm

For a man with no neck, he has some fecking neck on him to be suing over that.

rawn · 09-02-2018 11:45pm

I really don't see the point of commenting on his physical appearance, it's irrelevant and immature.

You all should be ashamed of yourselves. What if he is reading this?

Don't mind them, Leonard. Chins up.

Mongfinder General · 09-02-2018 11:55pm

BattleCorp wrote: »

If he has feck all money or assets, it won't really matter if costs are awarded against him as he won't be able to pay them.

I'm surprised that the pub appealed €5k. It's highly likely that if the pub win, they will end up paying their own costs which could easily be well in excess of the circuit court costs.

Garnish his salary or welfare payments.

Odyssey 2005 · 10-02-2018 12:23am

Cherry_Cola wrote: »

Haha the gut hanging out in the picture of him and all! Maybe he needs the money for tailored clothes!

O maera camping ya mean

Odyssey 2005 · 10-02-2018 12:24am

I'd love to see his insurance policy for delivering fast food for profit .

Odyssey 2005 · 10-02-2018 12:26am

enricoh wrote: »

Just saw the photo of him, I wonder do any of the customers chips or chicken balls etc go astray during the delivery!

You mean get delivered.:)

jacksie66 · 10-02-2018 12:30am

This post has been deleted.

ED E · 10-02-2018 12:37am

Has anyone been to Rathmines Station recently? Its a very narrow pair of doors into the public office. Nooooooo way he's getting in there.

NinjaTruncs · 10-02-2018 12:45am

Mongfinder General wrote: »

BattleCorp wrote: »

If he has feck all money or assets, it won't really matter if costs are awarded against him as he won't be able to pay them.

I'm surprised that the pub appealed €5k. It's highly likely that if the pub win, they will end up paying their own costs which could easily be well in excess of the circuit court costs.

Garnish his salary or welfare payments.

Hmmmm garnish....

dense · 10-02-2018 12:47am

If a lady can get compo for being asked of she's going to pay for a bottle of wine she'd already bought and paid for in another shop, I can't see how someone publicly raising doubts about the authenticity of the note you're tendering can be any different.

I certainly wouldn't like to be accused in public of passing a suspected dud note, I doubt anyone would.

Establishments do need to protect themselves against counterfeit notes, but it needs to be done discreetly, not as a triumphant announcement to anyone in earshot if there is a suspicion.

-Nice jibes about his looks too folks.

jaxxx · 10-02-2018 1:47am

Hold the f*cking phone, he won?!

That's it, I don't want to live on this planet anymore... When's the shuttle for the first colony to Mars taking off?????

Irish Guitarist · 10-02-2018 7:08am

His compensation should be awarded in 500 fake €10 notes.

In fairness though he was great in Masters of The Universe.

lf?set=path%5B1%2F3%2F3%2F6%2F5%2F13365775%5D%2Csizedata%5B850x600%5D&call=url%5Bfile%3Aproduct.chain%5D

lf?set=path%5B1%2F3%2F3%2F6%2F5%2F13365775%5D%2Csizedata%5B850x600%5D&call=url%5Bfile%3Aproduct.chain%5D

Richard Hillman · 10-02-2018 7:32am

About 10 years ago I was in the bookies with friends and went up to the counter to put a bet on. As I walked to the counter the price of the horse changed without me noticing. When the lady behind the counter seen the price she started giving out to me saying I was trying to con them. Everyone in the bookies could hear and I got stick for it for ages. In today's climate I probably could have sued them.

kneemos · 10-02-2018 8:18am

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

"Under common law, to constitute defamation, a claim must generally be false and must have been made to someone other than the person defamed.[2] Some common law jurisdictions also distinguish between spoken defamation, called slander, and defamation in other media such as printed words or images, called libel.[3]"

According to wikipedia it wasn't even defamation.

Similar to being accused of shop lifting I'd have thought. The defamation comes from being accused wrongly in public...or something such.

joeysoap · 10-02-2018 1:00pm

Richard Hillman wrote: »

About 10 years ago I was in the bookies with friends and went up to the counter to put a bet on. As I walked to the counter the price of the horse changed without me noticing. When the lady behind the counter seen the price she started giving out to me saying I was trying to con them. Everyone in the bookies could hear and I got stick for it for ages. In today's climate I probably could have sued them.

Today they shouldn’t even notice, everything controlled remotely from HQ, so it wouldn’t matter when you placed the bet. Bookies can now tell to the point of a second when the price changes. ( to be fair they will pay out on the better price if you query a price change to within a few seconds, but you won’t know the price changed until you collect)

But I take your point, she had no right to challenge you out loud in front of other customers. We are a country gone mad. The latest Iarnrod Eireann case is case springs to mind. I didn’t think you could take anyone’s photo now without their permission ?

Annasopra · 10-02-2018 1:06pm

99 Bortles of Beer wrote: »

Wait a minute.

His story is that he left the pub, got it checked by the Gardand then went back into the pub to inform the barman that the Gardaad verified it was real.

The Garda on the surface of it, as credible a witness you could have in an Irish court case - have denied this and said they don't even have such a machine to check the legitimacy of notes.

And he WON the case?

What the fúck is wrong with the courts?

He won the circuit court case. I have a feeling the gardai evidence was not presented till appeal in high court.

beertons · 10-02-2018 1:17pm

When I worked in a bar, and was presented with a few fakes, I would confiscate them. There's no way I'd allow them to take them back and pull the same stunt on another pub down the road.

BattleCorp · 10-02-2018 1:22pm

Mongfinder General wrote: »

Garnish his salary or welfare payments.

I don't think you can do that in a civil case.

BattleCorp · 10-02-2018 1:30pm

beertons wrote: »

When I worked in a bar, and was presented with a few fakes, I would confiscate them. There's no way I'd allow them to take them back and pull the same stunt on another pub down the road.

I'd be surprised if what you did was legal.

my3cents · 10-02-2018 1:45pm

beertons wrote: »

When I worked in a bar, and was presented with a few fakes, I would confiscate them. There's no way I'd allow them to take them back and pull the same stunt on another pub down the road.

I hope you gave them a receipt for the fakes you confiscated which is what the bank should do if it confiscates notes. I got caught paying some fake money into a bank and had a cashier with your attitude I had to make her show me the banks official procedure for handling such situations. Funny that no one in the bank had a clue and eventually found their written procedure that stated the customer should be given a receipt for and a photo copy of the notes. If they didn't do that how else could they prove they didn't just steal genuine notes from customers.

Armed with the receipt from the bank I went and extracted real money from the place that had palmed if off on me.

Degag · 10-02-2018 1:45pm

BattleCorp wrote: »

I'd be surprised if what you did was legal.

I actually think that is what is supposed to happen.

Don't necessarily agree with it though. What happens if i get the counterfeit money legitimately? I should have the option of going back to the source of the money.

my3cents · 10-02-2018 1:48pm

Degag wrote: »

I actually think that is what is supposed to happen.

Don't necessarily agree with it though. What happens if i get the counterfeit money legitimately? I should have the option of going back to the source of the money.

How do you prove that the money is counterfeit or not and what happens to the confiscated note.

Why not just confiscate real money and put it in your pocket?

kneemos · 10-02-2018 1:53pm

my3cents wrote: »

How do you prove that the money is counterfeit or not and what happens to the confiscated note.

Why not just confiscate real money and put it in your pocket?

Hope you're not suggesting random barmen aren't to be trusted?

Dravokivich · 10-02-2018 1:56pm

Degag wrote: »

I actually think that is what is supposed to happen.

Don't necessarily agree with it though. What happens if i get the counterfeit money legitimately? I should have the option of going back to the source of the money.

How can you prove where you got each note?

Dravokivich · 10-02-2018 1:57pm

my3cents wrote: »

How do you prove that the money is counterfeit or not and what happens to the confiscated note.

Why not just confiscate real money and put it in your pocket?

Most pubs tend to have a machine next to the tills. Most retailers have a marker to check the notes.

kneemos · 10-02-2018 2:02pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

Most pubs tend to have a machine next to the tills. Most retailers have a marker to check the notes.

The barman could be confiscating real cash though.

Odhinn · 10-02-2018 2:05pm

MilesMorales1 wrote: »

Isn't that Libel?

"An actionable defamatory statement has three ingredients:

it must be published,
it must refer to the complainant and
it must be false."
https://www.lawyer.ie/defamation/

endacl · 10-02-2018 10:38pm

Mongfinder General wrote: »

Garnish his salary or welfare payments.

He'd eat it.

Muahahaha · 10-02-2018 11:13pm

Odhinn wrote: »

"An actionable defamatory statement has three ingredients:

it must be published,
it must refer to the complainant and
it must be false."
https://www.lawyer.ie/defamation/

Defamation can be either on paper or verbal. From the same site

Character Defamation
In order to prove a statement is defamatory, or even how to prove defamation of character, the person making the claim must be able to show that:

The statement made was false
The statement was either published or spoken and a third party had read or heard the statement. The reason for this is because if nobody read or hears the defamatory statement then it cannot damage a person reputation. If the statement was heard or read by one person, it can be assumed that it would also be heard by further parties.

One thing I havent heard in this case is if a third person at the bar heard the defamation. The article doesnt say but it is a key ingredient for a defamation action to proceed.

In any case I think the High Court will over turn this decision. Retailers have to have the right to check notes and if they think they are fake say it to the customer that theyre not accepting the note. Its common sense and I would imagine the judge will see it that way.

But as another poster said it is surprising that the pub didnt just pay yer man the 5k. Because now they are risking losing a High Court action and a day out there can cost up to 50k. Itll probably be less as it wont take too long to hear the case but the pub is easily risking a 20k+ bill here.

BowSideChamp · 11-02-2018 12:02am

Muahahaha wrote: »

In any case I think the High Court will over turn this decision.

Doubt it. Judges in this country don't have common sense.

beertons · 11-02-2018 12:57pm

That lad has a history of doing that in pubs. Barred out of most places in Rathmines, Dundrum and Rathfarnam for the same craic.

Delivery driver sues pub for defamation after barman said €10 note was fake.

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