Delivery driver sues pub for defamation after barman said €10 note was fake.

Irish Guitarist · 10-02-2018 07:08AM

His compensation should be awarded in 500 fake €10 notes.

In fairness though he was great in Masters of The Universe.

lf?set=path%5B1%2F3%2F3%2F6%2F5%2F13365775%5D%2Csizedata%5B850x600%5D&call=url%5Bfile%3Aproduct.chain%5D

lf?set=path%5B1%2F3%2F3%2F6%2F5%2F13365775%5D%2Csizedata%5B850x600%5D&call=url%5Bfile%3Aproduct.chain%5D

Richard Hillman · 10-02-2018 07:32AM

About 10 years ago I was in the bookies with friends and went up to the counter to put a bet on. As I walked to the counter the price of the horse changed without me noticing. When the lady behind the counter seen the price she started giving out to me saying I was trying to con them. Everyone in the bookies could hear and I got stick for it for ages. In today's climate I probably could have sued them.

kneemos · 10-02-2018 08:18AM

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

"Under common law, to constitute defamation, a claim must generally be false and must have been made to someone other than the person defamed.[2] Some common law jurisdictions also distinguish between spoken defamation, called slander, and defamation in other media such as printed words or images, called libel.[3]"

According to wikipedia it wasn't even defamation.

Similar to being accused of shop lifting I'd have thought. The defamation comes from being accused wrongly in public...or something such.

joeysoap · 10-02-2018 01:00PM

Richard Hillman wrote: »

About 10 years ago I was in the bookies with friends and went up to the counter to put a bet on. As I walked to the counter the price of the horse changed without me noticing. When the lady behind the counter seen the price she started giving out to me saying I was trying to con them. Everyone in the bookies could hear and I got stick for it for ages. In today's climate I probably could have sued them.

Today they shouldn’t even notice, everything controlled remotely from HQ, so it wouldn’t matter when you placed the bet. Bookies can now tell to the point of a second when the price changes. ( to be fair they will pay out on the better price if you query a price change to within a few seconds, but you won’t know the price changed until you collect)

But I take your point, she had no right to challenge you out loud in front of other customers. We are a country gone mad. The latest Iarnrod Eireann case is case springs to mind. I didn’t think you could take anyone’s photo now without their permission ?

Annasopra · 10-02-2018 01:06PM

99 Bortles of Beer wrote: »

Wait a minute.

His story is that he left the pub, got it checked by the Gardand then went back into the pub to inform the barman that the Gardaad verified it was real.

The Garda on the surface of it, as credible a witness you could have in an Irish court case - have denied this and said they don't even have such a machine to check the legitimacy of notes.

And he WON the case?

What the fúck is wrong with the courts?

He won the circuit court case. I have a feeling the gardai evidence was not presented till appeal in high court.

beertons · 10-02-2018 01:17PM

When I worked in a bar, and was presented with a few fakes, I would confiscate them. There's no way I'd allow them to take them back and pull the same stunt on another pub down the road.

BattleCorp · 10-02-2018 01:22PM

Mongfinder General wrote: »

Garnish his salary or welfare payments.

I don't think you can do that in a civil case.

BattleCorp · 10-02-2018 01:30PM

beertons wrote: »

When I worked in a bar, and was presented with a few fakes, I would confiscate them. There's no way I'd allow them to take them back and pull the same stunt on another pub down the road.

I'd be surprised if what you did was legal.

my3cents · 10-02-2018 01:45PM

beertons wrote: »

When I worked in a bar, and was presented with a few fakes, I would confiscate them. There's no way I'd allow them to take them back and pull the same stunt on another pub down the road.

I hope you gave them a receipt for the fakes you confiscated which is what the bank should do if it confiscates notes. I got caught paying some fake money into a bank and had a cashier with your attitude I had to make her show me the banks official procedure for handling such situations. Funny that no one in the bank had a clue and eventually found their written procedure that stated the customer should be given a receipt for and a photo copy of the notes. If they didn't do that how else could they prove they didn't just steal genuine notes from customers.

Armed with the receipt from the bank I went and extracted real money from the place that had palmed if off on me.

Degag · 10-02-2018 01:45PM

BattleCorp wrote: »

I'd be surprised if what you did was legal.

I actually think that is what is supposed to happen.

Don't necessarily agree with it though. What happens if i get the counterfeit money legitimately? I should have the option of going back to the source of the money.

my3cents · 10-02-2018 01:48PM

Degag wrote: »

I actually think that is what is supposed to happen.

Don't necessarily agree with it though. What happens if i get the counterfeit money legitimately? I should have the option of going back to the source of the money.

How do you prove that the money is counterfeit or not and what happens to the confiscated note.

Why not just confiscate real money and put it in your pocket?

kneemos · 10-02-2018 01:53PM

my3cents wrote: »

How do you prove that the money is counterfeit or not and what happens to the confiscated note.

Why not just confiscate real money and put it in your pocket?

Hope you're not suggesting random barmen aren't to be trusted?

Dravokivich · 10-02-2018 01:56PM

Degag wrote: »

I actually think that is what is supposed to happen.

Don't necessarily agree with it though. What happens if i get the counterfeit money legitimately? I should have the option of going back to the source of the money.

How can you prove where you got each note?

Dravokivich · 10-02-2018 01:57PM

my3cents wrote: »

How do you prove that the money is counterfeit or not and what happens to the confiscated note.

Why not just confiscate real money and put it in your pocket?

Most pubs tend to have a machine next to the tills. Most retailers have a marker to check the notes.

kneemos · 10-02-2018 02:02PM

Dravokivich wrote: »

Most pubs tend to have a machine next to the tills. Most retailers have a marker to check the notes.

The barman could be confiscating real cash though.

Odhinn · 10-02-2018 02:05PM

MilesMorales1 wrote: »

Isn't that Libel?

"An actionable defamatory statement has three ingredients:

it must be published,
it must refer to the complainant and
it must be false."
https://www.lawyer.ie/defamation/

endacl · 10-02-2018 10:38PM

Mongfinder General wrote: »

Garnish his salary or welfare payments.

He'd eat it.

Muahahaha · 10-02-2018 11:13PM

Odhinn wrote: »

"An actionable defamatory statement has three ingredients:

it must be published,
it must refer to the complainant and
it must be false."
https://www.lawyer.ie/defamation/

Defamation can be either on paper or verbal. From the same site

Character Defamation
In order to prove a statement is defamatory, or even how to prove defamation of character, the person making the claim must be able to show that:

The statement made was false
The statement was either published or spoken and a third party had read or heard the statement. The reason for this is because if nobody read or hears the defamatory statement then it cannot damage a person reputation. If the statement was heard or read by one person, it can be assumed that it would also be heard by further parties.

One thing I havent heard in this case is if a third person at the bar heard the defamation. The article doesnt say but it is a key ingredient for a defamation action to proceed.

In any case I think the High Court will over turn this decision. Retailers have to have the right to check notes and if they think they are fake say it to the customer that theyre not accepting the note. Its common sense and I would imagine the judge will see it that way.

But as another poster said it is surprising that the pub didnt just pay yer man the 5k. Because now they are risking losing a High Court action and a day out there can cost up to 50k. Itll probably be less as it wont take too long to hear the case but the pub is easily risking a 20k+ bill here.

BowSideChamp · 11-02-2018 12:02AM

Muahahaha wrote: »

In any case I think the High Court will over turn this decision.

Doubt it. Judges in this country don't have common sense.

beertons · 11-02-2018 12:57PM

That lad has a history of doing that in pubs. Barred out of most places in Rathmines, Dundrum and Rathfarnam for the same craic.

Jimbob1977 · 11-02-2018 01:01PM

Reminds me of the 'litmus configuration test' from Midnight Run

De Niro and Grodin at their best.

S. Goodspeed · 11-02-2018 01:09PM

This is almost as absurd as the woman who won compo for intentionally making it look like she was stealing a bottle of wine from a shop. Carried in a bottle she bought earlier that day and unfortunately/ coincidentally left it on the shelf beside other similar bottles of wine in the second shop. When she picked it back up and tried to leave the shop the shop keeper for some crazy reason questioned if she was going to for the bottle. Cue slander and libel and embarrassment and anxiety and compensation.

It is very hard to understand why judges are being so soft in these cases. My suspicion is they don’t want to discourage cases because cases mean more work for them and their solicitor friends. Very sad if that is the case.

Dravokivich · 11-02-2018 01:35PM

kneemos wrote: »

The barman could be confiscating real cash though.

They don't give false negatives.

my3cents · 11-02-2018 02:28PM

Dravokivich wrote: »

They don't give false negatives.

They fortunately give far more false negatives than they do false positives, I tested a few for a project I worked on (same sort of ones as you see in the self service in Tesco and Dunnes). Used to get 1k of mixed used notes from the bank and sit feeding them into a machine about a dozen times then go and try and find somewhere that would swap that 1k of notes for another just to try and use as many different notes a possible.

Never had a false positives but had thousands of false negatives. Provided there weren't obviously damaged notes from a petrol station gave the most false negatives which was due to small amounts of petrol on them, under UV they looked very different. If you didn't know better a UV light behind the counter would also make you think there was something wrong with a good note a machine rejected.

At the end of the day you have to reject rather than accept anything you think may be fake particularly if you may end up handing the same note out in change.

Its not that you know the note is fake its that you don't know for sure its genuine.

I wonder if legally saying you cannot be sure a note is genuine is the same as saying its fake. To my mind if you say it may not be genuine you are leaving open the prospect of being proved wrong and that the note is indeed genuine however once you state its a fake there is no going back.

Stonedpilot · 11-02-2018 02:54PM

BattleCorp wrote: »

If he has feck all money or assets, it won't really matter if costs are awarded against him as he won't be able to pay them.

I'm surprised that the pub appealed €5k. It's highly likely that if the pub win, they will end up paying their own costs which could easily be well in excess of the circuit court costs.

He has no assets delivery driving is basically slave labour not even close to minimum wage. You get like €25 for the night, tips and drop payments like €2 a go. So €50 for the night minus petrol €15 = .€35 a shift. Same for deliveroo etc. Exploitation incorporated.

Fair play to him take the money and run. The way some go on here "assets" etc is a joke. Swear he was Denis O Brien or something.

Trust me if hes delivery driving he has nothing. Nothing of value financial anyway.

endacl · 11-02-2018 06:39PM

S. Goodspeed wrote: »

My suspicion is they don’t want to discourage cases because cases mean more work for them.

You are aware that a judicial appointment is a salaried position?

They get paid whether they're on the bench or not. Your suspicion is silly.

wyf437gn6btzue · 11-02-2018 09:43PM

Stonedpilot wrote: »

He has no assets delivery driving is basically slave labour not even close to minimum wage. You get like €25 for the night, tips and drop payments like €2 a go. So €50 for the night minus petrol €15 = .€35 a shift. Same for deliveroo etc. Exploitation incorporated.

Fair play to him take the money and run. The way some go on here "assets" etc is a joke. Swear he was Denis O Brien or something.

Trust me if hes delivery driving he has nothing. Nothing of value financial anyway.

What a lousy attitude, fair play to him for what? Pursuing & Relieving an honest business of €5,000 for nothing essentially?

You`re trying to justify it by saying he earns x amount, last time I checked what he earns is his problem.

You should go and seek out one of the many business men and women facing the prospect of having to fold up their business this year because of people hopping on the claim bandwagon to get a few bob for nothing, and get their take on things.

Not only do these people cast doubt on the genuine claims & cases of personal injury, they make life hard for the rest of us plebeians when we have to pay inflated insurance premiums to cover the ever growing costs of their nonsensical claims.

punisher5112 · 11-02-2018 09:47PM

Doubt the story of him been a delivery driver as by the time he could get out of the car the food would be eaten....

TheChizler · 11-02-2018 10:09PM

Did the pub not argue that they weren't claiming that he was aware the note was fake? Why not say they only thought that somebody else had passed him the note and this had nothing to do with his character?

I wonder is there more to this than we're hearing, was there a shouting match or something where he was loudly accused of all sorts, or something like that?

Captain Obvious · 11-02-2018 10:35PM

Gatling wrote: »

Even worse is claiming that the local Garda did tests on the note to confirm it was genuine ,only for local Gardai to take the stand as tell the court no such tests are done at any stations and they were not asked by anyone on the particular day at the station ,
So it is blatantly obvious he's lying about what he is claiming,
But expect him to receive compensation of some sort

And the Garda part is irrelevant because there is nothing to say he didn't ditch the dud note as soon as he left the pub and produced a different one at the station.

Delivery driver sues pub for defamation after barman said €10 note was fake.

Comments