Budget 2020, Another tenner or is it twenty

Geuze · 09-10-2019 1:29pm

LiamoSail wrote: »

Our higher rate of income tax kicks in at €35k. In England by way of comparison, it’s approx €50k.

Add to that we have USC and PRSI. End result being a marginal tax rate of close to 50%. It’s a ****ing scandalous rate to be paying.

Yes.

48.5% MTR after 35k is crazy.

But it's also true that effective income tax rates are much lower.

Geuze · 09-10-2019 1:32pm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

True but we have no pay-related benefit. You get little or nothing more out of the system than someone who has never worked in their life. That's very different in most other European countries - you get a substantial % of your pay at first, which tapers down over time. So genuine working people who lose their job are supported, and have a large incentive to find another job quickly. Our system supports the "no job for life" mentality and even gives extra benefits (Xmas bonus) the longer you manage to avoid work.

Yes.

Leo Varadker said he was a supporter of Social Insurance.

What I then expected was the following:

A bigger gap than 11 euro between the non-con pension and the SPC

A gap between JSB and JSA

Xmas bonus only for people on SI, not SA.

Mad_maxx · 09-10-2019 1:36pm

Edgware wrote: »

scamalert wrote: »

this qualifies for most idiotic post of the year :cool:

The truth hurts. There are thousands in this country who have never worked in their life. Then they turn 65/66 get the O.A.P. and we are supposed to be sorry for them. No Sir, not me.

We need to stop this endless soft headed eulogising of pensioners

Akabusi · 09-10-2019 3:48pm

marcos_94 wrote: »

Funny how you mention other countries who put us to shame. Quite possibly the only thing we lead the world in in terms of renewable energy is the integration of wind. Ireland at any instantaneous moment can meet 70% of its power needs with wind (System Non-Synchronous Penetration SNSP). Grid Operators from around the world come here to see how we have integrated such a high level of "variable" wind on our grid.

With regards to building onshore, Ireland has the capacity to power the whole of Europe and more with the wind resource we have off the South and West coast. We have the technology to build offshore wind further offshore so as to minimise environmental impact and keep locals happy that its not ruining their views. Offshore offers more secure and dependable power versus onshore (capacity factor).

Your comments on Germany are quite funny as there is huge backlash against the Energiewende move for local electricity production through wind. they have been incredibly good in the adoption of rooftop solar but their approach to wind has set them back and also angered all parties in the industry (the public, certain political parties, developers, Turbine manufacturers). they are only now correcting their mistakes by building large scale offshore wind 100km off the German North Sea coast.

Germany are indeed testing overhead lines for a 5 mile stretch on the autobahn but my god what a highly inefficient solution. Battery Electric Vehicles orr eve hydrogen fuel cell vehicles are better suited, and they are on the way. For example, Shenzhen has electrified their fleet of electric buses (16,000 in total) while China as a whole has approximately 420,000 electric buses on their roads. that is what we should be aiming for.

Finally, id like to bring attention to your comment on where Germany is getting its energy from. Germany has plans to retire its entire nuclear fleet by the mid to end of the 2020s (a non GHG emitting source of power). This may not seem like a bad thing until you see that Germany is retiring its nuclear fleet before its coal fleet, which is pencilled in to be retired by early 2030s

Good points Marcos.

I want to explain that they have been working on the whole package of options the wind is only one part of it.

Yes when it blows here we have more than enough wind, however as you know it can only be part of the solution unless we decide to use the excess electricity generated to pump water into giant reservoirs on the west coast for release to power hydro when the wind isn't blowing.

They also have a new stretch of the autobahn electrified near Hamburg for testing. I take you point that it may not be the most efficient solution.

The main point is they are trying things and for the most part doing a good job at it. We haven't.

marcos_94 · 09-10-2019 3:59pm

Akabusi wrote: »

The main point is they are trying things and for the most part doing a good job at it. We haven't.

I completely agree! Over time it gets quite depressing to see all the negative comments against Ireland and our, to date, lack of serious action against climate change. I try to highlight our vast amount of wind as I think its quite incredible we have achieved such a high penetration of wind on our grid system without the need for major storage.

I actually Ireland is in a great position to export vast amounts of clean energy to mainland Europe and the UK. Through this, we would be displacing huge amounts of our own agricultural emissions. One solution to reduce the amount of curtailed wind power is the deeper interconnection of national grids along with storage near high demand centres.

Im very interested to see how the overhead lines pan out as large German truck manufacturers such as Daimler and MAN are investing heavily in electric drivetrains for commercial vehicles

scamalert · 09-10-2019 4:10pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Explain?

explain what ? That according to poster pensioners are living, the dream life ? 250 avg a week for non contributory is f all.

blueshade · 09-10-2019 4:47pm

Keyzer wrote: »

Lol, quotes the daily mail.... lol

Lol, you can't disprove the facts in the article so you slate the source. Lol, you don't like losing the argument so you behave like a petulant teenager, lol. perhaps educate yourself a little with sources a little more to your liking, the facts will remain the same though.

Yer Da sells Avon · 09-10-2019 5:08pm

Antares35 wrote: »

Fair play to them sure. I don't smoke myself but sure f*ck it - why give all that money to the government when they are just going to p*ss it waay on HSE middle management doing sweet f*ck all? And sure aren't they keeping O'Leary in profit

Chemotherapy drugs are enormously expensive too. Paying taxes on your cigarettes is a good way of contributing in advance towards inevitable future health bills.

I'd sooner get annoyed about that than about single parents or the dole, tbh. The sheer entitlement of smoking your brains out, evading tobacco taxes and then expecting the state to pay tens of thousands for your treatment.

Idbatterim · 09-10-2019 5:13pm

hard to believe the world class welfare system spend only increased by a few hundred million! Absolute waste of money, every other area is far more worthy! another waste of several hundred million...

dxhound2005 · 09-10-2019 6:58pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

hard to believe the world class welfare system spend on increased by a few hundred million! Absolute waste of money, every other area is far more worthy! another waste of several hundred million...

It shouldn't be hard to believe. People are living longer, so there are more pensioners every year. They get the biggest slice of the welfare budget.

Ago1960 · 09-10-2019 7:00pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

It shouldn't be hard to believe. People are living longer, so there are more pensioners every year. They get the biggest slice of the welfare budget.

And most of these pensioners have contributed all of their working lives to the system and as such are entitled .

Hotblack Desiato · 09-10-2019 7:10pm

Keyzer wrote: »

Perhaps you should open google and look for the report yourself - unbelievable laziness.

No, unbelieveable laziness is claiming a report backs up what you're saying while refusing to link to it or even provide relevant quotes from it.

dxhound2005 · 09-10-2019 8:15pm

Ago1960 wrote: »

And most of these pensioners have contributed all of their working lives to the system and as such are entitled .

A common misunderstanding is that they are building up individual pension pots with their contributions. But their taxes are used up during their working lifetimes to pay current pensions, not provide for their future pensions. And to pay for all the other expenditure. Often the tax take is not enough, and that necessitates borrowing to fill the gap. Which is where the high national debt came from.

There are changes happening already, with the gradual increase in the pension age. And in future workers will have to pay to build up their own pension pots, because demographic changes will make the current system unsustainable.

The number of people aged over 65 is projected to increase from one in eight to one in six by 2030 while the number of people aged above 85 is projected to almost double.

At the same time the number of people in the workforce compared to those in retirement will fall, putting a greater strain on public finances.

Even with the gradual increase in the retirement age to 68 by 2028 there will be more than 1.4 million people eligible to claim a State pension by 2055.

This compares to 586,000 people who were eligible in 2015.

The report warns: "The task of financing increasing pension spending will fall to a diminishing share of the population as projections indicate the ratio of people of working age to every person aged over State pension age will reduce from its current rate of 4.9:1 to 2.3:1 over the next 40 years."

Fr_Dougal · 09-10-2019 8:44pm

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

Chemotherapy drugs are enormously expensive too. Paying taxes on your cigarettes is a good way of contributing in advance towards inevitable future health bills.

I'd sooner get annoyed about that than about single parents or the dole, tbh. The sheer entitlement of smoking your brains out, evading tobacco taxes and then expecting the state to pay tens of thousands for your treatment.

How would you feel about people on the dole smoking and evading tobacco taxes then expecting the State to pay tens of thousands on their treatment? :eek:

Mad_maxx · 09-10-2019 9:38pm

scamalert wrote: »

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Explain?

explain what ? That according to poster pensioners are living, the dream life ? 250 avg a week for non contributory is f all.

That's just the cash payment, the litany of additional benefits leave it worth at least 400,everything bar food is subsidised to some degree

Mad_maxx · 09-10-2019 9:40pm

Ago1960 wrote: »

dxhound2005 wrote: »

It shouldn't be hard to believe. People are living longer, so there are more pensioners every year. They get the biggest slice of the welfare budget.

And most of these pensioners have contributed all of their working lives to the system and as such are entitled .

That meme is getting old

Quantum Erasure · 09-10-2019 11:12pm

...like our population

Hotblack Desiato · 10-10-2019 1:03am

The solution to the pensions crisis:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4M2vx_RCwSs

twowheelsonly · 10-10-2019 2:08am

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

Chemotherapy drugs are enormously expensive too. Paying taxes on your cigarettes is a good way of contributing in advance towards inevitable future health bills.

I'd sooner get annoyed about that than about single parents or the dole, tbh. The sheer entitlement of smoking your brains out, evading tobacco taxes and then expecting the state to pay tens of thousands for your treatment.

What about the people that never smoked ? Who pays for their cancer treatment ? At least smokers contribute €1bn in takes towards their treatment

Only one in five people smoke but one in two are expected to get cancer during their lifetimes. Certain types of cancer are associated with smoking but it's rare that any Doctor or medical professional will say with 100% confidence that it was definitely smoking that caused Mr Xs' cancer. Not trying to justify it at all BTW, but I've been smoking for 42 years and would be happiest if I had never started but I am where I am unfortunately

(Just out of interest, Sweden, one of the healthiest countries in the world and the lowest rate of smokers in Europe - 20 smokes cost €5. Belgium on the other hand, which has the highest rate of smokers in Europe is also €5 for 20.)

Ireland has the third highest rate of Cancer in the world and the blame is apportioned between Smoking, drinking, obesity, sun, poor diet and lack of exercise.

Hotblack Desiato · 10-10-2019 11:14am

The link between cancer and smoking is far greater than the other risk factors you mentioned. Half of smokers will die prematurely from smoking-related illnesses.

"But my grandad lived to be 99 and smoked all his life"

(a) Learn statistics.
(b) What about quality of life? My mother's aunt was a fiend for the John Player Special and lived until well into her 80s. But the last 20 years of her life were an increasingly distressing and miserable existence of doctors, lengthy hospital admissions each winter, endless tests, struggling for breath, oxygen therapy. She was housebound on oxygen plumbed around her home, in the end. Used to take the oxygen mask off and have a puff.

If she'd never smoked then she may well have died at a similar age, but had much better quality of life and consumed a fraction of the health service resources.

CobraClan · 10-10-2019 7:53pm

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Could you perhaps give a few links or back up for those points?

Why are there so many Nigerians in Ireland? No war going on there or in India, Pakistan or Brazil.

CobraClan · 10-10-2019 8:00pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Ok but they still are actually rich just not spreading this wealth and are more then happy to see their people die.

Us giving more money is actually just giving more to the rich...

That's already happening here in Ireland!

Budget 2020, Another tenner or is it twenty

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