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Belfast rape trial discussion thread II

  • 12-04-2018 8:12am
    #1
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,534 CMod ✭✭✭✭


    This thread is for continuing the discussion of the recent Belfast rape trial. The old thread can be found here.

    Thanks,
    The AH mods.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



«134567…65

Comments

  • #2
    tritium
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,455 ✭✭✭tritium


    “Oh my god we’re so outraged”

    “Burn them they’re scum”


    “What, we have to click on a different link now?”

    “Nah, we couldn’t be arsed, not that pushed really”

    Feckin twitter generation
    :pac:


  • #3
    mariaalice
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,615 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    Why does it need another discussion?


  • #4
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    But sure the spit roast video sent the following day had nothing to do with the night before ......... unless it was a bit of fingering in the video.

    And Harrison was the one who sent it after getting the girl home......... and sent her a "chin up you wonderful women text"

    Can't fathom how that wasn't inlcuded in evidense.


  • #5
    goz83
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭goz83


    mariaalice wrote: »
    Why does it need another discussion?

    It's not another discussion, it's a continuation of the same discussion. Look at the mod post on the last page of the other thread for the hint.


  • #6
    Zulu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    These threads need to be killed.



    With fire.


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  • #7
    kneemos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,450 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Let me guess.

    You said he said but I'm right


  • #8
    tretorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭tretorn


    mariaalice wrote: »
    Why does it need another discussion?

    Because its one of the busiest threads on boards.

    Can someone PM me the juicy whatsapps.

    I need a good laugh before I go to the dentist.

    Will I get into trouble though If I open them. I suppose its not my fault if a bold person sennds them but then omg, poor Jackson got into more trouble becasue Harrison sent him juicy stuff from the internet.

    The woman in the juicy stuff may be happy to be in the threesome because she is paid for it, she is probably gorgeous and the harpies think they should tell other women not to capitalise on their good looks, the harpies are just jealous because no one would invite them to join a threesome.

    The harpies shouldnt die wondering what a threesome would be like, if they go online they could probably find a website where male escorts would do a threesome if you pay them.


  • #9
    Bunny12345
    Registered Users Posts: 21 ✭Bunny12345


    Wouldn't mind being PM'd the whatsapps if anyone has them


  • #10
    BBDBB
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,899 ✭✭✭✭BBDBB


    Augeo wrote: »
    But sure the spit roast video sent the following day had nothing to do with the night before ......... unless it was a bit of fingering in the video.

    And Harrison was the one who sent it after getting the girl home......... and sent her a "chin up you wonderful women text"

    Can't fathom how that wasn't inlcuded in evidense.

    Because it was prejudicial rather than probative, ie it doesnt prove anything in relation to the case but would serve only to stir the ****

    Evidence for a trial has to have purpose in relation to either proving or disproving guilt of the accusation. This piece of evidence didn't meet that criteria according to the Judge.


  • #11
    meeeeh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    tretorn wrote: »
    Because its one of the busiest threads on boards.

    Can someone PM me the juicy whatsapps.

    I need a good laugh before I go to the dentist.

    Will I get into trouble though If I open them. I suppose its not my fault if a bold person sennds them but then omg, poor Jackson got into more trouble becasue Harrison sent him juicy stuff from the internet.

    The woman in the juicy stuff may be happy to be in the threesome because she is paid for it, she is probably gorgeous and the harpies think they should tell other women not to capitalise on their good looks, the harpies are just jealous because no one would invite them to join a threesome.

    The harpies shouldnt die wondering what a threesome would be like, if they go online they could probably find a website where male escorts would do a threesome if you pay them.

    I wouldn't worry about 'harpies'. No sane sponsor would want to be on the same side as the likes of you. Can you imagine sponsoring a club and then you discover you are lumped together with people with no class and their behaviour casts a shadow on your business.


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  • #12
    givyjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 3,287 ✭✭✭givyjoe


    Bunny12345 wrote: »
    Wouldn't mind being PM'd the whatsapps if anyone has them

    I wonder are the same ones that were going around at the beginning of the trial?


  • #13
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    People here talk about the 'frenzied mob' and what have you.

    Yet if anyone suggests that sponsors might pull out they get all defensive and almost offended themselves.


  • #14
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Why is a spit roast video more shocking than the use of the term spit roast?


  • #15
    ArthurDayne
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,818 ✭✭✭ArthurDayne


    Not to judge anyone, or to purport to dictate to people what they should and should not read (though I would tread very very carefully on material relating to a trial), but before asking to be PM'd these Whatsapps it's worth asking yourself -- why do you want to see them? Is there any public or private interest in being any further privy to the private lives of these people than we already are? The trial is over. Any relevant evidence has been assessed, weighed up and scrutinised in a court of law. There is no further value in reading anyone's Whatsapps.

    The thing that made this trial an affront to the principles of a fair trial was the sensationalist and even borderline voyeuristic nature of the media reporting and public discourse around the trial. I would merely humbly implore people to resist the temptation to be drawn any further into peeking under the veil between peoples' private and public lives -- make a principled stand against this obsession and instead focus on the substantive areas of debate.


  • #16
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,894 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Woman from Rape Crisis on radio this morning basically. ..'men men men men bad bad bad, rugby bad, but not a mention of the behaviour of young women needing moderation.
    Irrational, 'we need a win' no matter what the human cost, unchallenged rant actually sponsored by weak RTE


  • #17
    BBDBB
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,899 ✭✭✭✭BBDBB


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    Why is a spit roast video more shocking than the use of the term spit roast?


    surround sound and HD quality


  • #18
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Woman from Rape Crisis on radio this morning basically. ..'men men men men bad bad bad, rugby bad, but not a mention of the behaviour of young women needing moderation.
    Irrational, 'we need a win' no matter what the human cost, unchallenged rant actually sponsored by weak RTE
    The more terrible men are the more funding she receives


  • #19
    Grayson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,312 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Faugheen wrote: »
    People here talk about the 'frenzied mob' and what have you.

    Yet if anyone suggests that sponsors might pull out they get all defensive and almost offended themselves.

    Looking at the first page of this thread shows who's frenzied and who's action sanely.


  • #20
    Grayson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,312 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Woman from Rape Crisis on radio this morning basically. ..'men men men men bad bad bad, rugby bad, but not a mention of the behaviour of young women needing moderation.
    Irrational, 'we need a win' no matter what the human cost, unchallenged rant actually sponsored by weak RTE

    I'm sure that's completely accurate. I'm sure she spent most of her time saying men are bad. Do you happen to have a transcript?


  • #21
    monkeybutter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,894 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    Why is a spit roast video more shocking than the use of the term spit roast?


    I agree, I found the video, not for the squeamish to be sure

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fC-Q5ehbICI


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  • #22
    upandcumming
    Registered Users Posts: 2,718 ✭✭✭upandcumming


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Woman from Rape Crisis on radio this morning basically. ..'men men men men bad bad bad, rugby bad, but not a mention of the behaviour of young women needing moderation.
    Irrational, 'we need a win' no matter what the human cost, unchallenged rant actually sponsored by weak RTE

    What station was that on?


  • #23
    BBDBB
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,899 ✭✭✭✭BBDBB


    upandcumming wrote: »
    What station was that on?

    AllMenRBastards106FM


  • #24
    upandcumming
    Registered Users Posts: 2,718 ✭✭✭upandcumming


    BBDBB wrote: »
    AllMenRBastards106FM

    My mistake! Thanks for that!


  • #25
    NAGDEFI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭NAGDEFI


    Faugheen wrote: »
    People here talk about the 'frenzied mob' and what have you.

    Yet if anyone suggests that sponsors might pull out they get all defensive and almost offended themselves.

    Hilarious, the amount of times some posters are using the words 'mob', 'twitterati', 'feminazi', 'pound of flesh'. You'd be bored to death. This mob crack... i half expect to wake up and find a pack of wolves at the door..

    They can't get it into their heads that ordinary people, rugby supporters, sports people, non sports people, men and women who were never next to near twitter, or anything online, or marched, just might not want to see Jacko and Whacko play for Ireland. The 2/3rds or so who don't want the boys playing with Ireland are ordinary men and women, not the dyed pink hair brigade. But we hear the same oul sh*te, 'the mob must have its pound of flesh'. The pro Jackson/Olding Ireland playing group are a little mob themselves who go bananas if any argument against their heroes return to Irish rugby is made.

    My first look on here in 6 days and a small few posters have been saying the same stuff every hour of the day for those 6 days, and weeks before. I don't get how you'd put so much time into it, waste of time. I'm not putting myself on some high pedestal but why would you be bothered posting the same stuff about 500 times.. am i missing something.

    A world war could be going on and the talk in the Irish bunker would be the Belfast Rape Trial.


  • #26
    SEPT 23 1989
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,028 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    so guilty or not guilty these men will lose everything


  • #27
    facehugger99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,376 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »
    so guilty or not guilty these men will lose everything

    Deservedly so.


  • #28
    Zulu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    Deservedly so.
    :confused:
    Trolling 101?


  • #29
    tretorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭tretorn


    NAGDEFI wrote: »
    Hilarious, the amount of times some posters are using the words 'mob', 'twitterati', 'feminazi', 'pound of flesh'. You'd be bored to death. This mob crack... i half expect to wake up and find a pack of wolves at the door..

    They can't get it into their heads that ordinary people, rugby supporters, sports people, non sports people, men and women who were never next to near twitter, or anything online, or marched, just might not want to see Jacko and Whacko play for Ireland. The 2/3rds or so who don't want the boys playing with Ireland are ordinary men and women, not the dyed pink hair brigade. But we hear the same oul sh*te, 'the mob must have its pound of flesh'. The pro Jackson/Olding Ireland playing group are a little mob themselves who go bananas if any argument against their heroes return to Irish rugby is made.

    My first look on here in 6 days and a small few posters have been saying the same stuff every hour of the day for those 6 days, and weeks before. I don't get how you'd put so much time into it, waste of time. I'm not putting myself on some high pedestal but why would you be bothered posting the same stuff about 500 times.. am i missing something.

    A world war could be going on and the talk in the Irish bunker would be the Belfast Rape Trial.


    Not half as bored to death as people are about the metoo movement and all that other rubbish thats prefixed with a hashtag.


  • #30
    Uncharted
    Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭Uncharted


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    Deservedly so.

    This thread in a nutshell..... ignore the ruling. Mob man hater mentality. Pitiful ignorance of the law and democracy!


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  • #31
    givyjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 3,287 ✭✭✭givyjoe


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    Deservedly so.

    Seen as they weren't found guilty of anything, I can only assume you mean because of their foolish text messages? Do you judge yourself by the same standards?


  • #32
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,894 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    upandcumming wrote: »
    What station was that on?

    Newtalk after 9 am.

    Lectured everyone but young women. Unchallenged too.


  • #33
    upandcumming
    Registered Users Posts: 2,718 ✭✭✭upandcumming


    NAGDEFI wrote: »

    A world war could be going on and the talk in the Irish bunker would be the Belfast Rape Trial.

    By this logic, we have protests about this trial, but no protests about actual crimes against women elsewhere. Madness innit?


  • #34
    facehugger99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,376 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    Uncharted wrote: »
    This thread in a nutshell..... ignore the ruling. Mob man hater mentality. Pitiful ignorance of the law and democracy!

    I'm not ignoring any rulings, I just think they behaved like absolute scumbags and should deservedly suffer the consequences of this. Polls have demonstrated that most people agree with me.

    Mob man hater mentality? Whatever you need to tell yourself buddy. Personally I'm more astounded that people don't see anything wrong with their behavior and think they should just pick up where they left off. That's fcuked up.


  • #35
    upandcumming
    Registered Users Posts: 2,718 ✭✭✭upandcumming


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    I'm not ignoring any rulings, I just think they behaved like absolute scumbags and should deservedly suffer the consequences of this. Polls have demonstrated that most people agree with me.

    Mob man hater mentality? Whatever you need to tell yourself buddy. Personally I'm more astounded that people don't see anything wrong with their behavior and think they should just pick up where they left off. That's fcuked up.

    I still don't see where they behaved like absolute scumbags? Like are we placing them in the same bracket as petty criminals that have hundreds of convictions, still roaming the streets? Or harassing people?


  • #36
    tretorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭tretorn


    Look at what Bill Clinton did and it didnt affect his career or life in anyway.

    A relative was in a shop in town this week and Bill Clinton arrived in, the women in the shop were literally gasping for a few crumbs from him.

    He was a married man when he had oral sex with someone much younger, what in Gods name is wrong with what went on in that madhouse in Belfast.

    Three drunk young people got into a bed to have hankypanky. A fourth person Dara Florence opened the door, she was invited to join in but it wasnt her cup of tea. No one pressurised her in anyway even though two of the people in the bed are supposed to have terrorised a woman. Another man opens the door and he is invited to join in and he literally jumps at the opportunity.

    The next day various texts are sent in reply to a pal asking how the night went. Another pal sends a video of a porn clip, we know the vast majority of young men use porn and presumably send bits they like to their pals, its totally legal porn so thats nobodys business except the person sending it and those receiving it.

    What am I missing ?


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  • #37
    NAGDEFI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭NAGDEFI


    tretorn wrote: »
    Not half as bored to death as people are about the metoo movement and all that other rubbish thats prefixed with a hashtag.

    You're exaggerating the importance of these online groups and also insulting the irish people.

    Irish adults are able to judge a case on its merits. They don't pause to think 'oh what would this hashtag group do here?'. As if 2/3 of the irish people not wanting the boys playing for their country could be attributed to hashtag groups. Half the percentage men? Get real. Complete fantasy that the hastag groups control irish opinion. If you believe that..


  • #38
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,894 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Grayson wrote: »
    I'm sure that's completely accurate. I'm sure she spent most of her time saying men are bad. Do you happen to have a transcript?

    She lectured everyone involved bar the young women.
    She then ended by basicall saying - of course these men are not guilty but they must pay a price for their behaviour. The implication being 'the price' is their careers in Irish rugby.


  • #39
    tretorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭tretorn


    NAGDEFI wrote: »
    You're exaggerating the importance of these online groups and also insulting the irish people.

    Irish adults are able to judge a case on its merits. They don't pause to think 'oh what would this hashtag group do here?'. As if 2/3 of the irish people not wanting the boys playing for their country could be attributed to hashtag groups. Half the percentage men? Get real. Complete fantasy that the hastag groups control irish opinion. If you believe that..


    Any Irish adults who are protesting about the jury decision in this case and maintaining innocent people cant go back to where their lives left off are not judging this case on its merits.


  • #40
    terryduff12
    Registered Users Posts: 502 ✭✭✭terryduff12


    Any chance of a pm of them Whatsapp messages.


  • #41
    MonsterCookie
    Registered Users Posts: 957 ✭✭✭MonsterCookie


    Grayson wrote: »
    Faugheen wrote: »
    People here talk about the 'frenzied mob' and what have you.

    Yet if anyone suggests that sponsors might pull out they get all defensive and almost offended themselves.

    Looking at the first page of this thread shows who's frenzied and who's action sanely.

    Does it though? In fairness Grayson, you yourself have insisted they are guilty of rape in spite of all the facts. One of many sub plots in this thread and the previous that gets more frustrating to read with every post.

    Fact is the guys were found not guilty.
    Fact is some find their private messages offensive.
    Fact is it is up to their employers to work out what to do about their future careers.

    Reality is that there will be pressure on their employers not to reinstate them. However, ask yourself is this because people believe they raped the girl or because their private messages were vile/ lewd/ offensive/ crossed a line?

    Jacko said very little and imo his apology was a PR exercise not an admission of real guilt.


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  • #42
    TomSweeney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,246 ✭✭✭TomSweeney


    terryduff12 wrote: »
    Any chance of a pm of them Whatsapp messages.
    https://www.rsvplive.ie/news/irish-news/full-transcript-text-messages-sent-12283375

    Real jack the lad idiots allright.

    Rapists ? nah.

    Careers should be over ? certainly not.


  • #43
    NAGDEFI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭NAGDEFI


    tretorn wrote: »
    Look at what Bill Clinton did and it didnt affect his career or life in anyway.

    A relative was in a shop in town this week and Bill Clinton arrived in, the women in the shop were literally gasping for a few crumbs from him.

    He was a married man when he had oral sex with someone much younger, what in Gods name is wrong with what went on in that madhouse in Belfast.

    Three drunk young people got into a bed to have hankypanky. A fourth person Dara Florence opened the door, she was invited to join in but it wasnt her cup of tea. No one pressurised her in anyway even though two of the people in the bed are supposed to have terrorised a woman. Another man opens the door and he is invited to join in and he literally jumps at the opportunity.

    The next day various texts are sent in reply to a pal asking how the night went. Another pal sends a video of a porn clip, we know the vast majority of young men use porn and presumably send bits they like to their pals, its totally legal porn so thats nobodys business except the person sending it and those receiving it.

    What am I missing ?

    Bill Clinton and Paddy Jackson:D:D:D Are you for real? To point out all the naivety in this post would take a year. 1990s v today, most powerful man in the world v nobody. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Are you for real??!


  • #44
    markodaly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,844 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    Deservedly so.

    So the accusation is enough for people to loose their livelihoods.
    Clearly people have never heard of McCarthyism or read the Scarlet Letter?


  • #45
    facehugger99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,376 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    tretorn wrote: »
    Look at what Bill Clinton did and it didnt affect his career or life in anyway.

    What are you blathering about. He was impeached.


  • #46
    tretorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭tretorn


    Fact is most people arent particularly shocked by anything that goes on in rugby circles, rugby after game antics have always been known not to be for the faint hearted.

    Its all legal adult consensual sex as was the threesome that Jackson and Olding participated in. The sponsors know this and so far they have been happy to be associated with it. If they disassociate now it will be because the twitter mob and the Rape Crisis Centre are demanding that they do so it will look hypocritical in the extreme. It will also piss off a lot of wealthy rugby fans who think their sexual activity is no one elses business and least of all the rape crisis centres.

    The Rape Crisis Centre need to keep their noses out of this, these men were acquitted of all rape charges so the rape crisis centre has no reason to be pontificating in anyway about their behaviour. The Rape crisis centre will lose out on funding from people who give to help genuine victims of rape, if the rape crisis centre is now going to align themselves with every rape case where men are found not guilty then the Government should cease funding them.

    We have to have respect for the rule of law and there is no point in underhandedly undermining a lawful verdict while professing that you accept the verdict.

    Morning Ireland should not have entertained that woman from the Rape Crisis Centre at all.


  • #47
    tretorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭tretorn


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    What are you blathering about. He was impeached.

    And.

    He is completely rehabilitated and is now travelling the world and feted everywhere.


  • #48
    NAGDEFI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭NAGDEFI


    tretorn wrote: »
    Any Irish adults who are protesting about the jury decision in this case and maintaining innocent people cant go back to where their lives left off are not judging this case on its merits.

    Can you not see that a majority of irish people think Olding and Jackson were involved in a tawdry, messy happening, where a 19 year old girl left Jackson's house in distress. Language was used that was very degrading to women. Many irish people don't want these men wearing their national jersey and representing their country???

    How many times does this have to be spelt out for you week after week?

    Whether you want to see them playing with Ireland or not, to be unable or unwilling to comprehend why decent irish people don't want them representing them is unbelievable.


  • #49
    NAGDEFI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭NAGDEFI


    tretorn wrote: »
    Fact is most people arent particularly shocked by anything that goes on in rugby circles, rugby after game antics have always been known not to be for the faint hearted.

    Its all legal adult consensual sex as was the threesome that Jackson and Olding participated in. The sponsors know this and so far they have been happy to be associated with it. If they disassociate now it will be because the twitter mob and the Rape Crisis Centre are demanding that they do so it will look hypocritical in the extreme. It will also piss off a lot of wealthy rugby fans who think their sexual activity is no one elses business and least of all the rape crisis centres.

    The Rape Crisis Centre need to keep their noses out of this, these men were acquitted of all rape charges so the rape crisis centre has no reason to be pontificating in anyway about their behaviour. The Rape crisis centre will lose out on funding from people who give to help genuine victims of rape, if the rape crisis centre is now going to align themselves with every rape case where men are found not guilty then the Government should cease funding them.

    We have to have respect for the rule of law and there is no point in underhandedly undermining a lawful verdict while professing that you accept the verdict.

    Morning Ireland should not have entertained that woman from the Rape Crisis Centre at all.

    What's your vested interest here? Do you defend all non guilty rape cases or are you fixated with Paddy Jackson?

    If you really want him playing that badly from a rugby point of view you should realise that there are bigger things than rugby.


  • #50
    tretorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭tretorn


    terryduff12 wrote: »
    Any chance of a pm of them Whatsapp messages.

    Are you looking for the whatasapp messages released yesterday, the ones with the video attached.

    I dont have them but someone on the previous thread has them, they are very juicy seemingly. Half the country is looking for them.


  • #51
    facehugger99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,376 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    tretorn wrote: »
    And.

    He is completely rehabilitated and is now travelling the world and feted everywhere.

    Yeah, that won't be happening with Jackson. Make your peace with it and move on.


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