Abdur Rashid refuses to apologise to 6 year old that he abused.

s7ryf3925pivug · 27-11-2018 10:15am

Peregrinus wrote: »

I don't think he has a "career as a teacher"; from the newspaper report, he works as a chef. He's described as "a teacher in a Dublin mosque", but I think this was a voluntary, part-time thing, in the equivalent of a Sunday school. Like you, I assume that particular gig is permanently up. (None of the reporting of this has suggested that the mosque authorities were obstructive, unhelpful or in any kind of denial. Unlike some denominations that we could think of.)

Coverage of the psychological/psychiatric reports is confusing, I agree. And what's completely missing from the reports is any opinion expressed in the reports as to whether he poses a future risk, or whether any risk can be or is being managed through engagement with treatment services. These would certainly be relevant considerations in sentencing.

I doubt he is engaging with treatment. He denies doing anything. I extrapolate from that that he doesn't accept any diagnosis.

If the act was realted to schizophrenia, you'd think that he would be monitored, and be committed if he starts heading into a state where he might do something like this. However mental health services in Ireland only seem to activate at crisis point so I doubt this is the case.

Peregrinus · 27-11-2018 10:27am

Aydin Shy Mumps wrote: »

I doubt he is engaging with treatment. He denies doing anything. I extrapolate from that that he doesn't accept any diagnosis.

That thought occurred to me too. If he's basically in denial about what he has done, this doesn't bode well for his engagement with support services.

On the other hand, what he says to a journalist when ambushed in the street in stressful circumstances by media that he will presume to be hostile and what he says to his family, his doctor or his counsellors are not necessarily the same thing. Plus, of course, whatever he said to journalists on release can't have been a factor in sentencing; he hadn't said it then.

Aydin Shy Mumps wrote: »

If the act was realted to schizophrenia, you'd think that he would be monitored, and be committed if he starts heading into a state where he might do something like this. However mental health services in Ireland only seem to activate at crisis point so I doubt this is the case.

We don't know what mental health treatment or support the guy is getting. People suffering from schizophrenia rarely present a threat to others - they are much more likely to present a threat to themselves. It would be unusual for somebody with schizophrenia to be sectioned, thought it does happen. Realistically, it won't happen unless (at the very least) he or someone very close to him seeks it (and, even then, only if the medics agree).

Note that he is still subject to supervision by the probation services while the suspended part of his sentence is served. Vengeance fantasies notwithstanding, in terms of community protection there is value to a part-suspension of a sentence, so that the offender's transition to community services can be monitored, managed and, if necessary, enforced. This is particularly important if he does have mental health issues that are contributing to his offending behaviour.

CinemaGuy45 · 27-11-2018 10:30am

John Sacrimoni wrote: »

Its nothing to do with race, this fella will abuse again 100%. 10 months for raping a child, how are people standing for this?

The may aswell have invited him to target more kids.

Well they have really.

TheValeyard · 27-11-2018 10:31am

The Gardai will be watching him very closely (including his internet traffic). One small slip up, if he sneezes the wrong way, id say he be brought in.

Yer Da sells Avon · 27-11-2018 10:36am

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

He’s an Irish citizen? Who’s the Muslim leader , Obama?

Leo Hussein Varadkar.

s7ryf3925pivug · 27-11-2018 10:36am

Peregrinus wrote: »

That thought occurred to me too. If he's basically in denial about what he has done, this doesn't bode well for his engagement with support services.

On the other hand, what he says to a journalist when ambushed in the street in stressful circumstances by media that he will presume to be hostile and what he says to his family, his doctor or his counsellors are not necessarily the same thing. Plus, of course, whatever he said to journalists on release can't have been a factor in sentencing; he hadn't said it then.

We don't know what mental health treatment or support the guy is getting. People suffering from schizophrenia rarely present a threat to others - they are much more likely to present a threat to themselves. It would be unusual for somebody with schizophrenia to be sectioned, thought it does happen. Realistically, it won't happen unless (at the very least) he or someone very close to him seeks it (and, even then, only if the medics agree).

Note that he is still subject to supervision by the probation services while the suspended part of his sentence is served. Vengeance fantasies notwithstanding, in terms of community protection there is value to a part-suspension of a sentence, so that the offender's transition to community services can be monitored, managed and, if necessary, enforced. This is particularly important if he does have mental health issues that are contributing to his offending behaviour.

If his schizophrenia was a factor in him molesting a child, then his specific case of schizophrenia does present a risk to others. If his schizophrenia was not a factor then I disagree with it being accepted as a mitigating factor.

Slightly off topic, but being a danger to yourself is sufficient grounds for sectioning, you don't have to be a threat to others as well.

malinheader · 27-11-2018 10:41am

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

The Gardai will be watching him very closely (including his internet traffic). One small slip up, if he sneezes the wrong way, id say he be brought in.

Sadly couldn't be further from the truth. Garda resources that badly stretched they might not even know he's out.

Peregrinus · 27-11-2018 10:46am

Aydin Shy Mumps wrote: »

If his schizophrenia was a factor in him molesting a child, then his specific case of schizophrenia does present a risk to others. If his schizophrenia was not a factor then I disagree with it being accepted as a mitigating factor.

But if it was his undiagnosed, untreated schizophrenia which contributed to the offence then, yes, it's a factor that mitigates in sentencing, since it reduces his personal culpability and it suggests that risk to the community may be mitigated by diagnosis/treatment.

I think we agree that the newspaper reports of the psych reports are confusing, but one possible reading of this. . .

The court heard that a psychological report stated that Rashid currently meets the diagnostic criteria for schziophrenia and delusional disorder and is psychologically vulnerable. A further psychiatric report indicated that at present he is not suffering from a psychiatric illness.

. . . is that, as a result of the diagnosis made in the first report, Rashid has received treatment which means that although still "psychologically vulnerable", he's not now "sufferingfrom a psychiatric illness".

(It's also worth pointing out that, if mental health issues are part of what's at the root of his offending, then in terms of risk to the community the longer he spends in prison the worse, since prison is not a place conducive to good or improved mental health.)

Aydin Shy Mumps wrote: »

Slightly off topic, but being a danger to yourself is sufficient grounds for sectioning, you don't have to be a threat to others as well.

Also slightly off-topic: Yes, I know.

s7ryf3925pivug · 27-11-2018 10:54am

Peregrinus wrote: »

But if it was his undiagnosed, untreated schizophrenia which contributed to the offence then, yes, it's a factor that mitigates in sentencing, since it reduces his personal culpability and it suggests that risk to the community may be mitigated by diagnosis/treatment.

I think we agree that the newspaper reports of the psych reports are confusing, but one possible reading of this. . .

. . . is that, as a result of the diagnosis made in the first report, Rashid has received treatment which means that although still "psychologically vulnerable", he's not now "sufferingfrom a psychiatric illness".

(It's also worth pointing out that, if mental health issues are part of what's at the root of his offending, then in terms of risk to the community the longer he spends in prison the worse, since prison is not a place conducive to good or improved mental health.)

Also slightly off-topic: Yes, I know.

Yes it occurred to me that he's unlikely to have stabilised after being convicted of a heinous crime and imprisoned for it unless there was significant intervention. For all we know he is on high doses of haliperidol, in which case I doubt he's a threat to anybody right now. Cheaper than keeping him in prison too.

s7ryf3925pivug · 27-11-2018 10:58am

Aydin Shy Mumps wrote: »

Yes it occurred to me that he's unlikely to have stabilised after being convicted of a heinous crime and imprisoned for it unless there was significant intervention. For all we know he is on high doses of haliperidol, in which case I doubt he's a threat to anybody right now. Cheaper than keeping him in prison too.

Those psych reports do seem contradictary since schizophrenics don't stop being schizophrenic afaik, regardless of how long they might stay stable for following an episode. I guess the overall conclusion was that he is at risk of developing it, and seems to have had some sort of psychotic episode.

Will I Am Not · 27-11-2018 11:06am

Peregrinus wrote: »

The claim was not that the offender was a Muslim; this is undisputed. The claim was that the offender isn't being deported because "we have a Muslim leader", i.e. Varadkar.

Sorry, I got my wires crossed. I thought EOTR and yourself were referring to the guy in the article. I didn’t realise people actually thought Leo is a Muslim.

Peregrinus · 27-11-2018 11:10am

Will I Am Not wrote: »

Sorry, I got my wires crossed. I thought EOTR and yourself were referring to the guy in the article. I didn’t realise people actually thought Leo is a Muslim.

I don't think they do. I think they just pretend to for the purpose of provoking outrage.

Peregrinus · 27-11-2018 11:21am

Aydin Shy Mumps wrote: »

Those psych reports do seem contradictary since schizophrenics don't stop being schizophrenic afaik, regardless of how long they might stay stable for following an episode. I guess the overall conclusion was that he is at risk of developing it, and seems to have had some sort of psychotic episode.

One's a psychological report; the other a psychiatric report. Per the newspapers, the psychological report said that Rashid "meets the diagnostic criteria for schizophrenia and delusional disorder", but that may not be quite the same as diagnosing him with schizophrenia or delusional disorder, since the diagnostic criteria for different conditions can overlap. One possible reading of what we're told her is the the psychologist said, in effect, "he ticks the boxes for schizophrenia and delusional disorder; he must have one or other of those conditions", and the pscychiatrist said "well, I don't think he currently has a psychiatric illness [but, by implication, he may have a mental disorder]".

The truth is that we're just guessing at what's in the reports; from the way the newspaper presents it, we don't even know whether the reports complement one another or contradict one another, and we certainly don't know what they said either about his culpability for his past behaviour or his propensity for future offending behaviour.

PlaneSpeeking · 27-11-2018 11:27am

end of the road wrote: »

no you won't.

Oh you know you will.

For the record, I equally condemn our home grown paedophiles and rapists - the difference is we can deport this animal. Well, should anyway.

Peregrinus · 27-11-2018 11:28am

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Oh you know you will.

For the record, I equally condemn our home grown paedophiles and rapists - the difference is we can deport this animal. Well, should anyway.

No, we can't. He's an Irish citizen.

WillieMason · 27-11-2018 11:43am

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Oh you know you will.

For the record, I equally condemn our home grown paedophiles and rapists - the difference is we can deport this animal. Well, should anyway.

Abdur Rashid is Irish the 6 yr old was unlucky wrong place at the wrong time nothing could have prevented this from happening

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 27-11-2018 11:43am

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Yeh I get that now. That guy was a total loon.

Who the Fcuk thinks Leo is a Muslim. Most of the time I forget he isn’t white.

Me too. He has big Irish potato head on him, with just a slightly more tan complexion than your average Irish person.

PlaneSpeeking · 27-11-2018 11:44am

Peregrinus wrote: »

No, we can't. He's an Irish citizen.

Shouldn't citizenship being conferred on a person be able to be removed in the event that they commit a serious crime ?

ohnonotgmail · 27-11-2018 11:50am

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Shouldn't citizenship being conferred on a person be able to be removed in the event that they commit a serious crime ?

There are conditions under which citizenship by naturalisation can be revoked. Unfortunately "being a filthy pervert" is not one of them.

PlaneSpeeking · 27-11-2018 11:52am

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

There are conditions under which citizenship by naturalisation can be revoked. Unfortunately "being a filthy pervert" is not one of them.

Mind you, given that the Brits can't remove passports of jihadis coming back from fighting for ISIS, we've got no chance kicking out a nonce.

Laois_Man · 27-11-2018 12:20pm

On a related topic. Breaking news: The serial rapist who abducted, repeatedly raped and terrorized a young Spanish girl in Dublin has just received a 5 and a half year sentence

That's a shameful length to give him!

Absolutely disgusting - for what he did!

Spleerbun · 27-11-2018 12:32pm

Laois_Man wrote: »

On a related topic. Breaking news: The serial rapist who abducted, repeatedly raped and terrorized a young Spanish girl in Dublin has just received a 5 and a half year sentence

That's a shameful length to give him!

Absolutely disgusting - for what he did!

And that's with a load of priors related to similar offences too if I remember correctly. Joke! He should be put away for life

PlaneSpeeking · 27-11-2018 12:33pm

Laois_Man wrote: »

On a related topic. Breaking news: The serial rapist who abducted, repeatedly raped and terrorized a young Spanish girl in Dublin has just received a 5 and a half year sentence

That's a shameful length to give him!

Absolutely disgusting - for what he did!

Will he serve anywhere near that or are we talking remission etc ?

To my mind, what he did means the most logical punishment is castration with a rusty bike chain.

ohnonotgmail · 27-11-2018 12:36pm

Laois_Man wrote: »

On a related topic. Breaking news: The serial rapist who abducted, repeatedly raped and terrorized a young Spanish girl in Dublin has just received a 5 and a half year sentence

That's a shameful length to give him!

Absolutely disgusting - for what he did!

He hasn't been sentenced for rape yet. that happens next month. He got 5.5 for sexually assaulting the spanish girl.

JJayoo · 27-11-2018 12:39pm

Why don't the judges ever receive abuse over their sentences, name and shame them.

Laois_Man · 27-11-2018 12:39pm

Apologies, I think I got my cases mixed up. This is the guy that met a BRAZILIAN girl from Tinder and sexually assaulting her

He also sexually assaulted another and raped another and still to be sentenced for those

El_Duderino 09 · 27-11-2018 12:42pm

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

end of the road wrote: »

no you won't.

Oh you know you will.

For the record, I equally condemn our home grown paedophiles and rapists - the difference is we can deport this animal. Well, should anyway.

Wel we haven't had anyone do it so far. But we have had several posters point out that it's ubiquitous and even went as far as making the point ironically.

I wonder if the people eagerly anticipating someone bringing his religion into the discussion, will realise they're the main ones bringing his religion into it.

Closes thing we've seen so far is some Edge Lord calling Leo a Muslim.

yourdeadwright · 27-11-2018 12:57pm

John Sacrimoni wrote: »

Ireland gets more insane as days go by, this child rapist is set free after serving just 10 months in prison.

https://m.herald.ie/news/courts/i-wont-apologise-says-mosque-molester-who-sexually-abused-girl-6-37564609.html

Anyone have any other information about this case?

How can any judge in their right mind allow such a short sentence for such a horrible, disgusting crime? And not a shred of remorse from the abuser either.

The crime is disgusting and unforgivable and yes the sentence is far far to short he should never see the light of day again but why are you surprised he showed no remorse when he claims he didn't do it ? (I know he was charged and likely did do it )
it wouldn't make sense to claim innocence and apologise for the crime ,

WillieMason · 27-11-2018 1:02pm

http://www.thetricolour.com/Articles/591/politics/Videos/Cork-Attempted-Child-abduction-in-Bishopstown/l4513032/

malinheader · 27-11-2018 1:10pm

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Mind you, given that the Brits can't remove passports of jihadis coming back from fighting for ISIS, we've got no chance kicking out a nonce.

Better to be seen to be acting politically correct instead of using common sense and kicking them out.

Gimme A Pound · 27-11-2018 1:11pm

The scumbag should have been given a much stiffer sentence.

But saying he committed rape and that the taoiseach is Muslim - why resort to such dishonesty?

Grayson · 27-11-2018 1:16pm

Alijah Cold Beef wrote: »

The scumbag should have been given a much stiffer sentence.

But saying he committed rape and that the taoiseach is Muslim - why resort to such dishonesty?

In their heads it's the truth.

saintsaltynuts · 27-11-2018 1:18pm

I shouldn't have read that article.Blood.Boiling.

Yer Da sells Avon · 27-11-2018 1:22pm

Mike9832 wrote: »

He might not practice Muslim

He's so good at Musliming, he doesn't need any practice. Clearly an A-rab.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 27-11-2018 1:25pm

ANDREWMUFC wrote: »

“Why are you picking on the Muslim rapists and not the Irish ones!!!”

Where did the OP mention his race?

El_Duderino 09 · 27-11-2018 1:42pm

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

ANDREWMUFC wrote: »

“Why are you picking on the Muslim rapists and not the Irish ones!!!”

Where did the OP mention his race?

The OP didn't mention race. It's not an important part of the story. The main people who mentioned race/religion are people who think everyone else is as interested in race/religion as they are.

I presume it's to do with the likes of Tommy Robinson who only highlights Muslim crimes to make people more afraid of Muslim. He uses child abuse to further his anti Muslim agenda. He's not concerned with child abuse unless it's committed by a Muslim.

Thus story isn't about the guy's race or religion

gozunda · 27-11-2018 1:43pm

Peregrinus wrote: »

One's a psychological report; the other a psychiatric report. Per the newspapers, the psychological report said that Rashid "meets the diagnostic criteria for schizophrenia and delusional disorder", but that may not be quite the same as diagnosing him with schizophrenia or delusional disorder, since the diagnostic criteria for different conditions can overlap. One possible reading of what we're told her is the the psychologist said, in effect, "he ticks the boxes for schizophrenia and delusional disorder; he must have one or other of those conditions", and the pscychiatrist said "well, I don't think he currently has a psychiatric illness [but, by implication, he may have a mental disorder]".

The truth is that we're just guessing at what's in the reports; from the way the newspaper presents it, we don't even know whether the reports complement one another or contradict one another, and we certainly don't know what they said either about his culpability for his past behaviour or his propensity for future offending behaviour.

I would agree. However taking the reports as is - it is not unusual that they were compiled in part for this individuals defence towards mitigating possible sentencing.

On face value - it would appear that he is neither diagnosed or known to be suffering from any psychiatric illness at present.

El_Duderino 09 wrote:

This story isn't about the guy's race or religion

Well yes and no

Leaving the reports aside and more corncerning imo (according to the news story anyway) is that the individual in question does not 'believe he did anything wrong'. This despite the fact he has been being convicted and jailed for said offences.

In his role as a 'religous teacher' where the child was sexually abused by him - it may be that he really does not believe that he 'has done anything wrong'. It is a fact that children as young as this child are promised for marriage & etc to middle age and even older men is well known of some Muslim countries such as pakistan and others.
See: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_marriage_in_Pakistan

Cultural differences where deep-rooted gender inequalities mean that young girls are at real risk of abuse. It is also also unfortunate that whilst an individual may move here and even become a citizen - it 'does' not mean such 'cultural' beliefs will become magically aligned with any adopted citizenship.

The sexual abuse of girls in Rotherham is a case in point.

noodler · 27-11-2018 1:46pm

In this topic we don't know what rape means.

Captain Obvious · 27-11-2018 2:01pm

18 months seems like a fairly hefty sentence coming from an Irish judge for this kind of crime. Any more and he'd probably be able o appeal on severity. It's unfortunate that judges have to stay in line with sentencing from the past. We really need legislation to give minimum sentences and free up Judges from precedent.

Guy:Incognito · 27-11-2018 2:05pm

Captain Obvious wrote: »

We really need legislation to give minimum sentences and free up Judges from precedent.

Did judges not resist any sort of minimum sentencing brought in before?

PlaneSpeeking · 27-11-2018 2:13pm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Did judges not resist any sort of minimum sentencing brought in before?

Yes, and it is a huge issue in the US at the moment where judges are actively resisting minimum sentencing.

I would disagree, if they cannot use common sense then they must be told to lock child molesters et al up for a significant amount of time.

Peregrinus · 27-11-2018 3:28pm

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Shouldn't citizenship being conferred on a person be able to be removed in the event that they commit a serious crime ?

Why would you impose this sanction on naturalised citizens if you don't impose it on citizens by birth or descent?

We're a republic. We have equal citizens - not first-class citizens and second-class citizens.

ohnonotgmail · 27-11-2018 3:32pm

Peregrinus wrote: »

Why would you impose this sanction on naturalised citizens if you don't impose it on citizens by birth or descent?

We're a republic. We have equal citizens - not first-class citizens and second-class citizens.

Except it is possible to revoke citizenship for naturalised citizens so they are second class citizens as you describe it. Just not for this particular reason unfortunately.

s7ryf3925pivug · 27-11-2018 3:35pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Except it is possible to revoke citizenship for naturalised citizens so they are second class citizens as you describe it. Just not for this particular reason unfortunately.

is it? What happens if they are from a country which disallows dual citizenship, and they had to renounce their previous citizenship to become naturalised? They would no longer be citizens of any country.

PlaneSpeeking · 27-11-2018 3:37pm

Peregrinus wrote: »

Why would you impose this sanction on naturalised citizens if you don't impose it on citizens by birth or descent?

We're a republic. We have equal citizens - not first-class citizens and second-class citizens.

Who said I wouldn't ?

Larry Murphy and that O'Dwyer bloke to name but two could happily be kicked out and passports removed and I'd not shed a tear.

ohnonotgmail · 27-11-2018 3:39pm

Aydin Shy Mumps wrote: »

is it? What happens if they are from a country which disallows dual citizenship, and they had to renounce their previous citizenship to become naturalised? They would no longer be citizens of any country.

It is.

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/citizenship-revocation

Mutant z · 27-11-2018 3:52pm

Cultural enrichment truly at its finest.

s7ryf3925pivug · 27-11-2018 5:10pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

It is.

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/citizenship-revocation

According to that citizenship could be revoked for failing to follow the law - it is part of their duty of fidelity to the nation.

ohnonotgmail · 27-11-2018 5:18pm

Aydin Shy Mumps wrote: »

According to that citizenship could be revoked for failing to follow the law - it is part of their duty of fidelity to the nation.

I think that is stretching the intention of the law somewhat.

Captain Obvious · 27-11-2018 6:07pm

Mutant z wrote: »

Cultural enrichment truly at its finest.

Has this phrase ever actually been used non-sarcastically by someone not right wing?

Abdur Rashid refuses to apologise to 6 year old that he abused.

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