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BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

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Comments

  • #5202
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,753 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    D14Rugby wrote: »
    Problem people in the south west is while I'm largely in favour of bus connects the plans are half ased and done by someone that hasn't experienced commuting in the area and the expansion capacity isn't really there, it's a short to medium term fix that will need completely redoing in a decade or two with all the new housing estates being built south west of the city.

    Can you be specific? I would put it to you, you don't have to actually do the commute yourself to plan a great system, it's sort of a science at this stage.
    What aspects do you view as half assed? I'm talking about the previous iteration of plans here and what would you suggest as an improvement?


  • #5203
    D14Rugby
    Registered Users Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭D14Rugby


    cgcsb wrote: »
    Can you be specific? I would put it to you, you don't have to actually do the commute yourself to plan a great system, it's sort of a science at this stage.
    What aspects do you view as half assed? I'm talking about the previous iteration of plans here and what would you suggest as an improvement?

    There'd be too much to type here but they start routes in the middle of busy streets with nowhere for buses to wait, the cycle paths are unpractical and a danger to everyone at nearly every point in some routes.

    I think you do. Some things can look good in theory and on paper but be completely impractical in practice.


  • #5204
    Qrt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,645 ✭✭✭Qrt


    MJohnston wrote: »
    Bus gates, rather than bus lanes, tend to work fairly well in Ireland, weirdly enough. College Green is mostly blocked by taxis rather than private vehicles, and the odd blitz that the Garda do of the area seems to keep the peace. I'd imagine when these new bus gates open, there will be a heavy police presence for the first couple of weeks.

    Seconded, there one at The Square and the Old Blessington Road are grand. There’s the odd offender, but it’s never chockablock with offenders.


  • #5205
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,753 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    D14Rugby wrote: »
    There'd be too much to type here but they start routes in the middle of busy streets with nowhere for buses to wait, the cycle paths are unpractical and a danger to everyone at nearly every point in some routes.

    I think you do. Some things can look good in theory and on paper but be completely impractical in practice.

    Yeah if you're not going to be specific and offer alternatives, why even say anything?


  • #5206
    D14Rugby
    Registered Users Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭D14Rugby


    cgcsb wrote: »
    Yeah if you're not going to be specific and offer alternatives, why even say anything?

    Oh right sorry I forgot this was the bus connects board meeting, I already put details in my submission.


  • #5207
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,753 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    D14Rugby wrote: »
    Oh right sorry I forgot this was the bus connects board meeting, I already put details in my submission.

    ok grand


  • #5208
    MJohnston
    Registered Users Posts: 10,666 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    D14Rugby wrote: »
    Oh right sorry I forgot this was the bus connects board meeting, I already put details in my submission.

    If you put it in a submission, just copy and paste that submission here, no?


  • #5209
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,753 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    MJohnston wrote: »
    If you put it in a submission, just copy and paste that submission here, no?

    I think it's simply a case that he hasn't really thought about it.


  • #5210
    D14Rugby
    Registered Users Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭D14Rugby


    MJohnston wrote: »
    If you put it in a submission, just copy and paste that submission here, no?

    I really can't be arsed finding it copy and pasting it, making sure the images post correctly, etc.

    The synopsis was routes start in the middle of busy roads with no area for them to wait, cycle lanes have blind turns, sharp turns, turns into shared paths, cross over the road every so often, switch between road level and footpath level, cross over footpaths, go through the middle of schools, takes unnecessarily long detours. Overall they're just unsafe and unpractical so won't be used which defeats the purpose


  • #5211
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,753 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    D14Rugby wrote: »
    I really can't be arsed finding it copy and pasting it, making sure the images post correctly, etc.

    The synopsis was routes start in the middle of busy roads with no area for them to wait, cycle lanes have blind turns, sharp turns, turns into shared paths, cross over the road every so often, switch between road level and footpath level, cross over footpaths, go through the middle of schools, takes unnecessarily long detours. Overall they're just unsafe and unpractical so won't be used which defeats the purpose

    I cant see anywhere on the bus conencts maps where routes 'start in the middle of busy roads'. The cycle lanes are far from ideal conditions but given the available space, they've done pretty well. Cyclists will be allowed use the bus lanes where the cycle lane is on a 'safer' detour. Level change in bike paths is to provide separation and then allow for at grade junctions. Can't see bike lanes going through schools either, except for the defunct Rathmines alternative route.


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  • #5212
    cdaly_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,440 ✭✭✭cdaly_


    cgcsb wrote: »
    I cant see anywhere on the bus conencts maps where routes 'start in the middle of busy roads'. The cycle lanes are far from ideal conditions but given the available space, they've done pretty well. Cyclists will be allowed use the bus lanes where the cycle lane is on a 'safer' detour. Level change in bike paths is to provide separation and then allow for at grade junctions. Can't see bike lanes going through schools either, except for the defunct Rathmines alternative route.
    This is dangerous. The current position is that cyclists are not required to use cycle lanes but an 'In the interest of BusConnects' reintroduction of mandatory use of cycle lanes puts cyclists at risk of poorly designed infrastructure.

    This, in turn, will mean that cyclists will ignore the poor cycle lanes, continue using the road and come into conflict with motorised vehicles because the roadway was not designed with cyclists in mind ("because they'll be on the cycle lane").


  • #5213
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,753 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    cdaly_ wrote: »
    This is dangerous. The current position is that cyclists are not required to use cycle lanes but an 'In the interest of BusConnects' reintroduction of mandatory use of cycle lanes puts cyclists at risk of poorly designed infrastructure.

    This, in turn, will mean that cyclists will ignore the poor cycle lanes, continue using the road and come into conflict with motorised vehicles because the roadway was not designed with cyclists in mind ("because they'll be on the cycle lane").

    That's some inception stuff right there.


  • #5214
    D14Rugby
    Registered Users Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭D14Rugby


    cgcsb wrote: »
    I cant see anywhere on the bus conencts maps where routes 'start in the middle of busy roads'. The cycle lanes are far from ideal conditions but given the available space, they've done pretty well. Cyclists will be allowed use the bus lanes where the cycle lane is on a 'safer' detour. Level change in bike paths is to provide separation and then allow for at grade junctions. Can't see bike lanes going through schools either, except for the defunct Rathmines alternative route.

    A route starts on Grange Road which gets very busy. They've not done well, just to pick one example there's one area where cyclists if they want to stay on that path have to cross the road, cross over the footpath twice, make a 90degree turn where they can't see what's around the corner onto a shared path in a narrow ally. All that's within 10meters. That's not safe. You say defunct, it's just to the side for now since they haven't managed to sort out rathmines at all yet


  • #5215
    Dats me
    Registered Users Posts: 333 ✭✭Dats me


    No one in the cycling community is at all happy with BusConnects for cycling, it's better than what's there but no way would you send your 10 year old child down the routes which should be the aim.

    Check out posts on dublincycling.ie and irishcycl.come


  • #5216
    cdaly_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,440 ✭✭✭cdaly_


    cgcsb wrote: »
    cdaly_ wrote: »
    This is dangerous. The current position is that cyclists are not required to use cycle lanes but an 'In the interest of BusConnects' reintroduction of mandatory use of cycle lanes puts cyclists at risk of poorly designed infrastructure.

    This, in turn, will mean that cyclists will ignore the poor cycle lanes, continue using the road and come into conflict with motorised vehicles because the roadway was not designed with cyclists in mind ("because they'll be on the cycle lane").
    That's some inception stuff right there.
    Ah if only...
    • 2012: Transport Minister Leo Varadkar signs Si No. 332 of 2012 removing mandatory use of cycle lanes.
    • 2016: Dept of Transport says "Oh no, that's not what he meant. You must use cycle lanes no matter what".
    • 2017: Transport Minister Shane Ross says "Sorry, Leo Varadkar's intention in 2012 was to remove mandatory use of cycle lanes".
    • 2018: Transport Minister Shane Ross signs Si No. 321 of 2018 removing mandatory use of cycle lanes which was already removed in 2012.

    Inception indeed...

    In the meantime, various cyclists report abuse from motorists when cycling on the road because they are not cycling in the defective/unsafe cycle lane nearby. I would expect, with BusConnects, that cycling in the bus lane* will attract similar abuse whether the nearby cycle lane is useable or not.

    *Bus lanes are currently useable by buses, taxis and cyclists.


  • #5217
    loyatemu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,104 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    I'd imagine where an "alternative" route is provided for cyclists, you'll still be able to cycle along the bus route if you want/need to. Otherwise how would you cycle to (for example) Shankill village?


  • #5218
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,753 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    D14Rugby wrote: »
    A route starts on Grange Road which gets very busy. They've not done well, just to pick one example there's one area where cyclists if they want to stay on that path have to cross the road, cross over the footpath twice, make a 90degree turn where they can't see what's around the corner onto a shared path in a narrow ally. All that's within 10meters. That's not safe. You say defunct, it's just to the side for now since they haven't managed to sort out rathmines at all yet

    There's no routes starting on Grange Road in BusConnects


  • #5219
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,522 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    so at the rate we're going is there any chance of this being in place anytime before 2025?


  • #5220
    D14Rugby
    Registered Users Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭D14Rugby


    cgcsb wrote: »
    There's no routes starting on Grange Road in BusConnects

    The A4. And on the leaks it starts beside Nutgrove which is same problem different place.


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  • #5221
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,753 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    D14Rugby wrote: »
    The A4. And on the leaks it starts beside Nutgrove which is same problem different place.

    The bit of Grange Road that's being significantly widened there under the cbc project? Also, as you stated, the latest iteration of bus connects has it terminating at nutgrove instead.


  • #5222
    D14Rugby
    Registered Users Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭D14Rugby


    cgcsb wrote: »
    The bit of Grange Road that's being significantly widened there under the cbc project? Also, as you stated, the latest iteration of bus connects has it terminating at nutgrove instead.

    It's not being significantly widened, or at least not significantly in my book, nowhere near enough to cope with parked buses. As I said Nutgrove is same problem just slightly further up the road


  • #5223
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,167 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    North Dublin to face increased vehicle congestion at evening peak
    Car commuters on Dublin’s northside face increased traffic jams during the evening rush hour under proposals to save mature trees in Glasnevin as part of the BusConnects project.

    The National Transport Authority (NTA) had proposed felling 140 trees to facilitate two-way segregated bus lanes on St Mobhi Road as part of the core bus corridor from Ballymun to the city centre.
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/north-dublin-to-face-increased-vehicle-congestion-at-evening-peak-1.3988675


  • #5224
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,395 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    North Dublin to face increased vehicle congestion at evening peak

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/north-dublin-to-face-increased-vehicle-congestion-at-evening-peak-1.3988675

    Ah yes, the classic "no, we don't want that", followed closely by "no, we don't want that either".


  • #5225
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,753 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    North Dublin to face increased vehicle congestion at evening peak

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/north-dublin-to-face-increased-vehicle-congestion-at-evening-peak-1.3988675

    What a bizzar headline. The entire article is about diversions for motorists and a claim that they'd 'have to' go through X route instead. No mention of the fact that those motorists could instead take the bus and save those few minutes.


  • #5226
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,395 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    cgcsb wrote: »
    What a bizzar headline. The entire article is about diversions for motorists and a claim that they'd 'have to' go through X route instead. No mention of the fact that those motorists could instead take the bus and save those few minutes.

    Yeah, or the fact that they'll face increased traffic regardless of BusConnects, what with the amount that Dublin is projected to grow over the next 10 years.


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  • #5227
    thenightman
    Registered Users Posts: 561 ✭✭✭thenightman


    Why torture yourselves lads? BusConnects in it's intended form is dead, a half baked hodge podge will be introduced way behind the projected schedule that will probably be worse than the service it's replacing. Like every Irish public transport improvement project, it has been infected by the usual ailments of being meddled with by every residents committee and self serving TD imaginable, and shown it's place in the pecking order well behind private motorists. Sad & incredibly maddening, but entirely inevitable.


  • #5228
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,753 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    thenightman wrote: »
    Why torture yourselves lads? BusConnects in it's intended form is dead, a half baked hodge podge will be introduced way behind the projected schedule that will probably be worse than the service it's replacing. Like every Irish public transport improvement project, it has been infected by the usual ailments of being meddled with by every residents committee and self serving TD imaginable, and shown it's place in the pecking order well behind private motorists. Sad & incredibly maddening, but entirely inevitable.

    I dunno it seems that Mary Fitzpatrick, the patron saint of stupid causes, is the only real politician band wagonningon the mobhi road 'do nothing' scenario.


  • #5229
    Lord Glentoran
    Closed Accounts Posts: 876 ✭✭✭Lord Glentoran


    thenightman wrote: »
    Why torture yourselves lads? BusConnects in it's intended form is dead, a half baked hodge podge will be introduced way behind the projected schedule that will probably be worse than the service it's replacing. Like every Irish public transport improvement project, it has been infected by the usual ailments of being meddled with by every residents committee and self serving TD imaginable, and shown it's place in the pecking order well behind private motorists. Sad & incredibly maddening, but entirely inevitable.

    As long as those making the decisions, reporting on same, and were constantly brought to school and college in private cars, nothing will change.


  • #5230
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    From the Swords Road community forum:

    They're going with a two way layout for Swords Road in Santry. Possibility of putting in segregated cycling junctions (seeing this at every meeting). Dorset Street could have a car traffic lane removed at parts.

    Most people at the meeting were asking to get rid of cars. To the point where their views were more extreme than the NTA's. A surprising change.


  • #5231
    Qrt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,645 ✭✭✭Qrt


    Peregrine wrote: »
    From the Swords Road community forum:

    They're going with a two way layout for Swords Road in Santry. Possibility of putting in segregated cycling junctions (seeing this at every meeting). Dorset Street could have car traffic lanes removed at parts.

    Most people at the meeting were asking to get rid of cars. To the point where their views were more extreme than the NTA's. A surprising change.

    Leave it to the more working-class areas to have a bit of cop on.


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  • #5232
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    Qrt wrote: »
    Leave it to the more working-class areas to have a bit of cop on.

    Haha. It's worth pointing out that they also overwhelmingly chose to widen the road in Santry. 85% of the submissions were about that section and 58% of those wanted to widen the road while 12% wanted the one way layout they proposed.

    But most people at the meeting itself wanted the cars gone. Especially the inner city residents. Someone must have really pushed people to make submissions on that section.


  • #5233
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,395 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    Peregrine wrote: »
    Haha. It's worth pointing out that they also overwhelmingly chose to widen the road in Santry. 85% of the submissions were about that section and 58% of those wanted to widen the road while 12% wanted the one way layout they proposed.

    But most people at the meeting itself wanted the cars gone. Especially the inner city residents. Someone must have really pushed people to make submissions on that section.

    They're only going to get more vocal as well. Once people start realising exactly how much more dangerous the fumes from cars are than we previously thought, those inside the canals will be screaming for change.


  • #5234
    Macy0161
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,483 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    CatInABox wrote: »
    Ah yes, the classic "no, we don't want that", followed closely by "no, we don't want that either".
    Now we're back (approaching, not close) to peak traffic time, the traffic has come up in the office... How there's no plan, and I have no choice but the car. I did point out we did have a plan, called bus connects, but that is being scuppered.


  • #5235
    Qrt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,645 ✭✭✭Qrt


    Macy0161 wrote: »
    Now we're back (approaching, not close) to peak traffic time, the traffic has come up in the office... How there's no plan, and I have no choice but the car. I did point out we did have a plan, called bus connects, but that is being scuppered.

    How was the response?


  • #5236
    average_runner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,855 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    How does the bus connect plan to handle the quays as this is our current bottle neck in the mornings?

    Regarding Lucan, the bus connect offers no improvement which is sad really. Both buses going the same way through a housing estate that can't cope with it


  • #5237
    sharper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,216 ✭✭✭sharper


    average_runner wrote: »
    Regarding Lucan, the bus connect offers no improvement which is sad really. Both buses going the same way through a housing estate that can't cope with it

    Are you talking about a particular route? There are improvements for Lucan in BusConnects https://www.busconnects.ie/media/1356/busconnects-cbc6-lucan-to-city-centre-final-for-web-med-res.pdf


  • #5238
    average_runner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,855 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    sharper wrote: »
    Are you talking about a particular route? There are improvements for Lucan in BusConnects https://www.busconnects.ie/media/1356/busconnects-cbc6-lucan-to-city-centre-final-for-web-med-res.pdf

    Not really any changes at all in fairness, the same issues will still apply.

    We will still get blocked by all the traffic currently on the quays.

    Basically 2 buses in lucan doing the same route, what a waste and bus lanes between griffeen and penyhill still not getting used

    We already have a bus lane all the way into town, adding a bus lane to the exit at woodies on the way home is good.


  • #5239
    sharper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,216 ✭✭✭sharper


    The work at Liffey Valley junction should help, it's a chokepoint in the morning peak.

    All of the 66/67 replacement routes will bypass Chapelizod which gives Lucan more direct busses.

    I didn't look into what routes the 25a/b/ds get replaced with but you see what happens when someone's direct bus is lost.


  • #5240
    TheIrishGrover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,144 ✭✭✭TheIrishGrover


    thenightman wrote: »
    Why torture yourselves lads? BusConnects in it's intended form is dead, a half baked hodge podge will be introduced way behind the projected schedule that will probably be worse than the service it's replacing. Like every Irish public transport improvement project, it has been infected by the usual ailments of being meddled with by every residents committee and self serving TD imaginable, and shown it's place in the pecking order well behind private motorists. Sad & incredibly maddening, but entirely inevitable.

    Shocker! Who'd have thunk it? :)


  • #5241
    average_runner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,855 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    TheIrishGrover wrote: »
    Shocker! Who'd have thunk it? :)

    Its not a solution but instead a PR stunt. Like when someone's belt doesn't fit, put an extra hole in it.

    We don't address the problem.


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  • #5242
    Varta
    Closed Accounts Posts: 517 ✭✭✭Varta


    sharper wrote: »
    The work at Liffey Valley junction should help, it's a chokepoint in the morning peak.

    All of the 66/67 replacement routes will bypass Chapelizod which gives Lucan more direct busses.

    I didn't look into what routes the 25a/b/ds get replaced with but you see what happens when someone's direct bus is lost.

    Which is why Chapelizod's growing population is up in arms.


  • #5243
    sharper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,216 ✭✭✭sharper


    Varta wrote: »
    Which is why Chapelizod's growing population is up in arms.

    Maynooth also has a growing population as does Lucan so you can see where the problems start. One of the other things the population of Chapelizod complain about is all the full busses going past them.

    In the original plan Chapelizod got a dedicated bus route which I think was further improved based on some of the leaked information.

    BusConnects or not there's no way that area can retain having so many buses that are actually going elsewhere travelling through it when there's a bypass.


  • #5244
    Kfagan10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 44 ✭Kfagan10


    Varta wrote: »
    Which is why Chapelizod's growing population is up in arms.

    Chapo will have the existing 26 route (renamed) serving it. Maybe a few people from Liffey Valley or the Ballyfermot end of Palmerstown will use this, but most of Palmerstown will take the more direct buses that use the quicker N4 route to town.

    They are building steps up from below the N4 as well similar to those by the Spa hotel, so people on that edge of chapo can access the N4 buses too.

    Better in my opinion than standing outside the primary school for half an hour in the morning as full buses leave you behind.

    If only this was clearly explained to residents before the pitchforks come out.


  • #5245
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    Peregrine wrote: »
    From the Swords Road community forum:

    They're going with a two way layout for Swords Road in Santry. Possibility of putting in segregated cycling junctions (seeing this at every meeting). Dorset Street could have a car traffic lane removed at parts.

    Most people at the meeting were asking to get rid of cars. To the point where their views were more extreme than the NTA's. A surprising change.

    Once again, a lot of calls to get rid of cars at the Finglas + Ballymun Road meeting this evening. Not to same level as Swords Rd but the residents of Phibsborough, Broadstone etc. wanted to restrict cars. One woman felt the need to 'stick up for motorists' towards the end because it was all about cycling, pedestrian spaces and bus priority.

    The NTA are not keen on large scale car restrictions until Bus Connects is finished.

    Mobhi Road will become a two way local access road. The trees won't be cut down.


  • #5246
    Shedite27
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,427 ✭✭✭Shedite27


    Peregrine wrote: »
    Mobhi Road will become a two way local access road. The trees won't be cut down.

    What does that mean? It's already 2 way road, are they blocking through traffic somewhere to make it local access??


  • #5247
    Qrt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,645 ✭✭✭Qrt


    Shedite27 wrote: »
    What does that mean? It's already 2 way road, are they blocking through traffic somewhere to make it local access??

    I saw something about a bus gate.


  • #5248
    loyatemu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,104 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    Qrt wrote: »
    I saw something about a bus gate.

    Bus Gate at the northern end, only in the afternoons/evenings.


  • #5249
    Macy0161
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,483 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    Qrt wrote: »
    How was the response?
    Started going on about rail instead. Rail is the default excuse of people who won't get a bus, so don't see it as at least part of the solution.


  • #5250
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,167 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    https://twitter.com/StreetsblogDen/status/1171569059898376194


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  • #5251
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    loyatemu wrote: »
    Bus Gate at the northern end, only in the afternoons/evenings.

    This. You can drive up to the last house but not through the gyratory. The lane turns into a bus gate just before Griffith Avenue.

    I think they said 7am-7pm though. My memory is a little hazy now. Anyway, those details will be ironed out later on.

    Full bus lane southbound until Botanic Avenue as now.


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