Animals are here for us to kill, eat..

Sam Quentin · 03-07-2019 12:21am

I would not enjoy my food if I was a vegan,.it wouldn't suit me and also I wouldn't have time to do the logistics and seperation of this and that..... I can understand why some people pretend to love GUIYNESS(know what I mean)until they actually get a taste for it just to look and feel more Irish(as we are a cool country :cool: )but the intricacies of being a vegan never mind the amount of effort involved!?!? Just wouldn't suit me at-all at-all

swarlb · 03-07-2019 12:23am

8-10 wrote: »

Yeah but it the same time many animals exist and breed in the numbers they do because of Human activity.

The modern beef and dairy cow are manufactured and without humans wouldn't exist in the wild as they do now. We have shaped nature as a resource and it's more than just us killing animals who happen to be around, it's manufacturing nature by breeding animals for consumption, many in captivity and force-fed to fatten them up for us.

In addition the carbon dioxide produced is going to become more and more of a problem if farming continues to expand as populations do.

I'm no vegan, I eat meat and I eat veal on occasion. But I'm very aware that I'm not simply eating something that would have died anyway, I'm eating something that is only alive because I'm going to eat it. And it's only fair to acknowledge that in any moral debate.

I fully believe that the right solution is very very close for both sides as technology advances to mass produced lab-grown meat

Just on the carbon being produced by animals, through modern farming methods.... if we all become vegan to save the planet, what do we do with all the animals that will continue to breed (if there is no animal farming)...
Do we cull them ?? Or would that annoy the vegans, or is it only the eating of animals that upsets them ??

gozunda · 03-07-2019 12:25am

bubbles o hara wrote: »

July 2nd, another anti-vegan thread on boards. Only 2/3 more to go before the month's end. :rolleyes:

How is the OPs comment 'anti-vegan' ?

anewme · 03-07-2019 12:29am

robertpatterson wrote: »

anewme wrote: »

OP, tell that to yer man who ate the Gecko.

That was the end of him.

Gordon?

No the bloke in the news at the moment.

He apparently ate a Gecko for a dare at a party and died in absolute agony 10 days later from salmonella.

His family are looking for answers.

igCorcaigh · 03-07-2019 12:31am

If we all became vegans... That old line sounds like if were all gay then humanity would die...

It's a complex debate, but the starting point is really simple.

Our modern industrial ways of consuming animals has, for some, become completely devoid of compassion and separated from our natural origins.

Some people, for ethical and completely understandable reasons make a decision not to support these industries.

Other people make choices along the same lines, but choose to source their animal products along more ethical lines, or just less of them.

Others continue as they are.

All valid, all debatable. But completely understandable, surely.

jaxxx · 03-07-2019 12:32am

I love how all this talk of 'animals' is always from a third person perspective. Newsflash, we're animals. Other animal species don't exist for the sole purpose of ending up on our plates. We're not some sort of special species magically chosen by some all powerful giant flying spaghetti monster in outer space, we're just another species of animal. In our particular case, we're omnivores. From a biological perspective, we're not meant to eat only plants or only other animals. We wouldn't have evolved canine teeth if we were to be completely herbivorous. FFS our closest living relatives, chimpanzees, aren't exclusively herbivorous either! They eat insects and hunt smaller mammals as well. Nature is all about balance. You can't have balance when only one side of the scales is weighted!

RWCNT · 03-07-2019 12:37am

dartboardio wrote: »

I want to know why in Ireland, so many people genuinely think it's wrong to kill animals to eat, like we have been doing for many, many years?

Why do you think it's OK to kill animals to eat? You've given no reason other than a weak appeal to nature fallacy.

Former Observer · 03-07-2019 12:37am

Cringe thread is cringe.

tuxy · 03-07-2019 12:38am

I think eating animals will continue to be fine once we find a way of reducing the human population by a few billion.
If we fail and the human population continues to grow I don't see how eating real non synthetic meat will be possible for most of the population.

mickdw · 03-07-2019 12:39am

pheasant tail wrote: »

mickdw wrote: »

Because most go on about letting the animals live a long and happy life grazing in the sun when the reality is that the animals will not exist.

Most say that? No they don’t! A vegan would prefer for an animal not to be born at all into the life of our ‘farm’ animals, where in many cases the same-day they are born, their slaughter date is decided

The ones I've meet here, at the farm gate are all of the opinion that it would be so much better if the lambs weren't being put to death. After responding that they wouldn't be alive if there wasn't a market for meat, one couple argued that th e animal did nothing to deserve death and should be allowed to live a full natural life.
Another Looney told me.to my face that any person that can send his animals for slaughter is evil and that the grass grows from the land freely and the animal has a right to graze freely.
I'm fairly happy with my opinion of vegan types.

pheasant tail · 03-07-2019 12:39am

jaxxx wrote: »

I love how all this talk of 'animals' is always from a third person perspective. Newsflash, we're animals. Other animal species don't exist for the sole purpose of ending up on our plates. We're not some sort of special species magically chosen by some all powerful giant flying spaghetti monster in outer space, we're just another species of animal. In our particular case, we're omnivores. From a biological perspective, we're not meant to eat only plants or only other animals. We wouldn't have evolved canine teeth if we were to be completely herbivorous. FFS our closest living relatives, chimpanzees, aren't exclusively herbivorous either! They eat insects and hunt smaller mammals as well. Nature is all about balance. You can't have balance when only one side of the scales is weighted!

Many true herbivores have canine teeth! And a lot more serious looking than our flat things!

igCorcaigh · 03-07-2019 12:41am

tuxy wrote: »

I think eating animals will continue to be fine once we find a way of reducing the human population by a few billion.
If we fail and the human population continues to grow I don't see how eating real non synthetic meat will be possible for most of the population.

I'm very interested in the synthetic meat initiative. I'm also wary of technological fixes.

Brave new world and all. I do hope it works out though. The population problem is real though.

pheasant tail · 03-07-2019 12:42am

mickdw wrote: »

The ones I've meet here, at the farm gate are all of the opinion that it would be so much better if the lambs weren't being put to death. After responding that they wouldn't be alive if there wasn't a market for meat, one couple argued that th e animal did nothing to deserve death and should be allowed to live a full natural life.
Another Looney told me.to my face that any person that can send his animals for slaughter is evil and that the grass grows from the land freely and the animal has a right to graze freely.
I'm fairly happy with my opinion of vegan types.

Sure all vegans in the world must be the very same as the ones that landed to your gate so ðŸ˜Š. But I agree with everything above apart from the part about farmers been evil, they ain’t of course!

Feisar · 03-07-2019 12:44am

As soon as I meat a "woke" bear I'll change my perception.

Effing vegans, unfortunately one cannot live in the western world and not be a detriment to the planet. A 2 min youtube vid takes 2 AA batteries worth of power for example.

jaxxx · 03-07-2019 12:44am

tuxy wrote: »

I think eating animals will continue to be fine once we find a way of reducing the human population by a few billion.
If we fail and the human population continues to grow I don't see how eating real non synthetic meat will be possible for most of the population.

#1 problem in the world right there: overpopulation. More humans = more land required for farming, regardless of whether you're farming plants or animals. How much more space are we gonna strip away from 'the wild' so that we continue to feed ourselves? Earth is not big enough to accommodate 8 billion humans, even though we're not at 8 billion quite yet. Jesus 100 years ago the global population was only about 1/4 of what it is now. More and more nature stripped away so we can feed ourselves. All that habitat loss, countless extinctions of animal and plant life. Major losses in global biodiversity. But all we care about is arguing about what we should be eating, not the irreversible damage we're causing to every other form of life on the planet.

^^ I've absolutely no plans on adding to aforementioned problem btw just in case anyone wants to make a quick witty comeback.

igCorcaigh · 03-07-2019 12:48am

Like most issues, I think this one will be decided not through a moral lens, but more through the objective and economic forces.

Politics and human will do play some role, but I believe that most social change comes from brute forces of economic reality.

Slavery died because of the industrial revolution, not because we became more morally enlightened.

Women got "equal" (explicit) pay because it hit the bottom line of the bosses.

riffmongous · 03-07-2019 1:05am

I swear to God all these stupid threads whinging about vegans have me on the verge of going vegan just to spite the 'how do you know someone's a vegan, hurr hurr hurr' people

igCorcaigh · 03-07-2019 1:08am

riffmongous wrote: »

I swear to God all these stupid threads whinging about vegans have me on the verge of going vegan just to spite the 'how do you know someone's a vegan, hurr hurr hurr' people

Hey, it makes a change from the gender debate, eh?

jaxxx · 03-07-2019 1:24am

riffmongous wrote: »

I swear to God all these stupid threads whinging about vegans have me on the verge of going vegan just to spite the 'how do you know someone's a vegan, hurr hurr hurr' people

:pac::pac::pac:

03-07-2019 1:32am

touts wrote: »

Veganism is a by product of first world luxury and excess. There are no vegans in a famine.

True. But you could accurately apply the same line to cannibalism.

Human flesh is no different to any other meat.

03-07-2019 1:35am

dartboardio wrote: »

As far as I am concerned I will continue to eat, and agree with animals being eaten, for the rest of my life as will my children (if I have that influence)

MMMM.. meat! What if it is your children who are being eaten? Don't forget, they are made of meat too. MMM.... meat!

tuxy · 03-07-2019 1:38am

Deleted User wrote: »

True. But you could accurately apply the same line to cannibalism.

Human flesh is no different to any other meat.

Well, except for Kuru and other diseases caused by cannibalism. Cannibalism causes issues such as this in most species.

03-07-2019 1:43am

tuxy wrote: »

Well, except for Kuru and other diseases caused by cannibalism. Cannibalism causes issues such as this in most species.

Only if you eat the brain, tuxy, but an interesting point. Perhaps this is why we don't find any animal brain in the meat counter at Tesco.

wakka12 · 03-07-2019 1:43am

dartboardio wrote: »

Yes i agree with that big time.

I do think veganism is to some extent, selfish,

People with nothing to eat in the world, and vegans turning down meat as it is not 'right'

No such thing as veganism in third world countries, or even many other countries, Turkey, Africa, etc.

Yeh, just about 400 million indians, is all

igCorcaigh · 03-07-2019 1:49am

wakka12 wrote: »

Yeh, just about 400 million indians, is all

I think they are vegetarian actually, not vegan.

But we have to agree, surely, that keeping a goat in your garden so you could have yoghurt is a vast difference to cutting down the rainforests to make happy meals as a commodity for the Western population.

Context, people.

ILoveYourVibes · 03-07-2019 1:52am

dartboardio wrote: »

I am bombarded with facebook posts from vegan peers, convincing me to 'wake up' to what we are putting 'innocent' animals through etc etc.

Can someone please enlighten me?

I have my fair share of vegan and non vegan tips i agree and don't agree with,

However just fail to understand why there is a minority trying to change the world as we know it,

As far as I'm concerned, killing animals has gone back hundreds of thousands of years and will continue to do so, thats, in my opinion, what animals are here for.

I'm really not one of those 'anti vegan' I respect and value the information I gather from these people while I make my decision as to whether or whether not killing animals is a positive thing in terms of morals

But surely morals don't come into it? We are animals and animals are here for us to kill and eat, surely suggesting anything else is being in denial of what or who we truly are?

When down the line of humanity did all of a sudden people begin to think animals had feelings? Why are people only saying this in the last few years?

As far as I am concerned I will continue to eat, and agree with animals being eaten, for the rest of my life as will my children (if I have that influence)

Animals are here due to evolution.

Their existence was not arranged for our benefit.

People have known animals have feelings since there were people.

The first law to pass for the regulation of treatment of cattle and horses was in 1822. The RSPCA was formed 2 yrs later.

What you eat is none of my business. What you tell your children is none of my business either.

I'm not going to crucify you. I don't think you are a bad person. I do think you are being very over dramatic though.

My only option really with someone who disagrees with me is to agree to disagree and move on.

When you read literature from the past with animals in it. It's clear people thought they had feelings. People in the past worked with animals a lot more. Most people are not close to animals today and have never been apart from the odd cat or dog.

When life is tough for people it gets tougher for animals. When its easier it gets easier for them too.

03-07-2019 2:06am

It's always amusing how people talk about their love of eating meat and think they are talking about other animals. Not realising they are made of meat themselves.

gozunda · 03-07-2019 2:06am

tuxy wrote: »

Well, except for Kuru and other diseases caused by cannibalism. Cannibalism causes issues such as this in most species.

Indeed. Animals have been eating meat since the dawn of time. And yes us humans are animals too. However carnivores (and by extension other meat eaters) have been shown to be biologically programmed to generally avoid eating other carnivores

The bulk of prey species eaten are herbivores - all part of entrophy and recycling of nutrients in the ecosystem.

As humans evolved and took to agriculture they learned to domesticate some of these herbivore species - feed them, protect them from predation and illness then (humanly) kill and eat them.

An international team of researchers led by the University of Granada (UGR) has explained for the first time the scientific basis of the old Spanish saying 'perro no come perro' (dog eats no dog): for a carnivorous animal, eating carrion of another carnivore, especially if it is of the same species, increases the probability of contracting pathogens that could endanger its life.

https://m.phys.org/news/2017-12-carnivores-carnivore-carcasses-transmits-diseases.html

italodisco · 03-07-2019 2:23am

If there was a nuclear war tomorrow and feck all left for me and my family to eat I'd eat a human without a second thought.
What would make that a wrong thing to do..

igCorcaigh · 03-07-2019 2:34am

italodisco wrote: »

If there was a nuclear war tomorrow and feck all left for me and my family to eat I'd eat a human without a second thought.
What would make that a wrong thing to do..

Nope. Not at all.

It's a matter of choices and necessity.

If one of your children died first, would you eat her?

Because if you don't, someone else will.

We're one nuclear war away from savegry.

03-07-2019 2:50am

italodisco wrote: »

If there was a nuclear war tomorrow and feck all left for me and my family to eat I'd eat a human without a second thought.
What would make that a wrong thing to do..

Was necessary in the past and will be necessary in the future. The only people who could see it as wrong are the Vegans, surely?

dartboardio · 03-07-2019 3:21am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's always amusing how people talk about their love of eating meat and think they are talking about other animals. Not realising they are made of meat themselves.

Even more amusing when people buy organic chicken because they claim to care about how the chickens were kept!

Its like, if im gonna be a meat eater I can't exactly be a hypocrite and pretend to care about how that chicken slept..

tuxy · 03-07-2019 3:22am

_Brian · 03-07-2019 4:27am

Each to their own, live and let live. Plenty of people become vegan and never talk about it, their personal choice.

vegans who endlessly talk about their choice and how it makes them superior are a complete irritation.

Extremists however need to be addressed. They want to force their beliefs into everyone removing personal choice from everyone. They often abuse and demean people who don’t agree with them turning to intimidation and violence to make their point. These people are pure fascists and need to be called out for that at every opportunity.

whisky_galore · 03-07-2019 6:34am

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I'm pretty sure 30% or so of India is vegetarian. The planet would be a better place if we all ate less meat. The seas are almost out of fish too.

India, with an out of control population and a holy river full of unholy things floating in it. Yep very environmental alright.

Jerichoholic · 03-07-2019 6:36am

When down the line of humanity did all of a sudden people begin to think animals had feelings? Why are people only saying this in the last few years?

OP has never had a pet obviously.

Mousewar · 03-07-2019 9:05am

For most of our history it was necessary to kill animals and eat them to survive. It's no longer necessary. So why are we doing it? For taste and convenience. Is that enough justification for you to kill an animal? If it is then fine. For others, it simply isn't.

italodisco · 03-07-2019 9:34am

Deleted User wrote: »

Was necessary in the past and will be necessary in the future. The only people who could see it as wrong are the Vegans, surely?

Vegans along with left wing 'woke' types and those who believe in the sky unicorn known as God.

The rest of us can feast.

italodisco · 03-07-2019 9:36am

whisky_galore wrote: »

India, with an out of control population and a holy river full of unholy things floating in it. Yep very environmental alright.

Their river is 90% mix of bodies and huge hairy turds

Winning

Thelonious Monk · 03-07-2019 9:48am

whisky_galore wrote: »

India, with an out of control population and a holy river full of unholy things floating in it. Yep very environmental alright.

who said they were environmental? It's a festering overpopulated kip, which is probably the direction most of the world is headed. They don't pollute anywhere near as much per capita as your average European does however.

Gimme A Pound · 03-07-2019 10:15am

Can someone answer me this: why do some people get so upset and angry over someone being vegan? Literally just because they don't eat meat/animal products.

Someone called them guttersnipes

- could anyone explain what the unadulterated rage is about?

I'm not talking about people who don't stop talking about being vegan (although that's a myth - you're far more likely to hear that tedious cliche about vegans always talking about being vegan... than to actually hear vegans always talking about being vegan) - just the hatred towards people who are vegan full stop. It's a bizarre reason to hate. I eat meat, fish, poultry, eggs, dairy - and strangers not doing so has precisely zero effect on me. It leaves more of those foods for me.

I'm not trying to be holier than thou - I just genuinely don't understand it. I get people saying they couldn't follow a vegan diet (I know I couldn't) but any negativity beyond that just for the lifestyle alone seems like misplaced anger/a bandwagon.

Thelonious Monk · 03-07-2019 10:20am

Gimme A Pound wrote: »

Someone called them guttersnipes - could anyone explain what the unadulterated rage is about?

That was just weird, I doubt he encounters many vegans in Darndale where I think he lives

topper75 · 03-07-2019 10:57am

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I'm pretty sure 30% or so of India is vegetarian. The planet would be a better place if we all ate less meat. The seas are almost out of fish too.

I put fish down to a harvesting methods issue, rather than an excessive consumption issue. Consumption of fish is relatively low here in Ireland. Many don't touch it at all. The sea would feed us all no problem indefinitely if we harvested sustainably.

03-07-2019 10:59am

What other people eat is none of my business (as long as it's legal!), and vice versa.

Live and let live, folks. Life is too short to get into a bubbly fury over what someone you don't know has on their dinner plate.

Also India is a huge and diverse place and calling it a kip is like calling Ireland or all Europe a kip because there is serious poverty in Romania and murders in Greece. Except that India is bigger and more populous so it's even more of a generalization.

03-07-2019 11:01am

Gimme A Pound wrote: »

Can someone answer me this: why do some people get so upset and angry over someone being vegan? Literally just because they don't eat meat/animal products.

Someone called them guttersnipes - could anyone explain what the unadulterated rage is about?

I'm not talking about people who don't stop talking about being vegan (although that's a myth - you're far more likely to hear that tedious cliche about vegans always talking about being vegan... than to actually hear vegans always talking about being vegan) - just the hatred towards people who are vegan full stop. It's a bizarre reason to hate. I eat meat, fish, poultry, eggs, dairy - and strangers not doing so has precisely zero effect on me. It leaves more of those foods for me.

I'm not trying to be holier than thou - I just genuinely don't understand it. I get people saying they couldn't follow a vegan diet (I know I couldn't) but any negativity beyond that just for the lifestyle alone seems like misplaced anger/a bandwagon.

Money.

Seems to be mostly people that will be hit in their pocket that are concerned and that concern manifests into hatred.

The rest are just comically challenged and love the ‘how do you know if someone is vegan’ gag.

gozunda · 03-07-2019 11:04am

Gimme A Pound wrote: »

....you're far more likely to hear that tedious cliche about vegans always talking about being vegan... than to actually hear vegans always talking about being vegan) - ...

I'm not trying to be holier than thou - I just genuinely don't understand it. I get people saying they couldn't follow a vegan diet (I know I couldn't) but any negativity beyond that just for the lifestyle alone seems like misplaced anger/a bandwagon.

You see that's the urban myth right there. As the OP said they are being bombarded with this stuff all over social media.

The last time that this idea that it's 'meat eaters" being in your face, was shown to be rubbish - that was declared an "attack' on vegans. You couldn't make it up. And thats the problem. Disagree with any of claim even as inocuous as this and likly get steamrolled.

When those eating a normal diet are being called 'murderers' and family run shops are being targeted by extremists then for sure it's going to get a reaction and not always a good one.

Plenty of nice vegans I'm sure . Unfortunately its the small number of screamers which foster the negativity

Thelonious Monk · 03-07-2019 11:37am

topper75 wrote: »

I put fish down to a harvesting methods issue, rather than an excessive consumption issue. Consumption of fish is relatively low here in Ireland. Many don't touch it at all. The sea would feed us all no problem indefinitely if we harvested sustainably.

Yeah Irish people aren't too keen on seafood and fish compared to the rest of Europe, which is odd given we're an island. We export nearly everything we catch to Spain etc.
When I was a kid we could fish in Dalkey and pull in 80 mackerel no problem in September with feathers. I went a couple of years ago and didn't get a bite.

Here's a good letter to the Irish Times about the issue of the state of our seas

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/destruction-of-marine-biodiversity-on-beara-peninsula-1.3940704

Mad_maxx · 03-07-2019 11:41am

topper75 wrote: »

I put fish down to a harvesting methods issue, rather than an excessive consumption issue. Consumption of fish is relatively low here in Ireland. Many don't touch it at all. The sea would feed us all no problem indefinitely if we harvested sustainably.

I'd eat fish quicker than meat, love it