Allow me to explain why the 'All Live Matter' hashtag is awful.

Foxtrol wrote: »

It is more like they're shouting 'my house is on fire' and there are a mix of people saying 'what about all houses' and 'well I don't believe you because of xyz', you seem to fall into the latter group.



But you've ignored the multiple studies posted here and continue to cling to ones with incredibly shoddy data.



And local police departments collect the data for those studies. In many (I believe a majority) of places police are not required to capture any/all data points and no audit is carried out.

Pushing for systematic data gathering on use of force is one of the demands of protesters.



They had an outsized impact because that is what gets clicks/viewers. Multiple large protests have taken in many cities every day since the murder of George Floyd and they fell completely off the national/international news.



It highlights how poor the data is regarding police shootings. Given how it has been proven over the last few weeks that police officers have lied about incidents, despite knowing there was video evidence, how do you keep holding the belief that a) the data they have collected is accurate and/or b) that the missing data is not selectively left out (e.g., not filling out the race when POC are the deceased)?



As above



From what I've seen, you haven't once made any broader argument that there isn't systematic racism in the US. What you've instead done is find one flawed data point and hid behind it to prove they don't have a point. I've haven't seen you deal with the impact of slavery, segregation, education, wider policing issues, the bail system, etc etc.

You're claiming that you are being gaslit but I don't see any evidence you've actually done anything to understand why they're saying that their house is on fire.

You certainly likely have a point re: accurate data collection, but that doesn't change the reality of what we do know more. It says a lot that so much of BLM's focus is on white injustices, while studying comparatively mum when it comes to the ills of the black communities where people are being murdered daily.

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

A deputy from Harris County Sheriff’s Office, Ellison Collins, invited a 61 y/o man to slap him in the face, the cop returned the slap with enough force to knock the older man to the ground, busting his head. Collins body cam was not on but the body cam of another officer’s got it all on camera.

Hash tag white privilege

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWa0b-l-K3Y

Overheal is in knots trying to figure out how to blame the white guy in the video.

Like I keep saying on all of these threads. The police forces need reform over there. It’s not a racism issue. It’s a police issue. Defund the cops and you’ll get chaos, give them more money and train them better and you’ll have less of this awful behaviour.

The mob have nobody to blame so they take their anger out on the police. It’s brainless and ineffective.

Just look at this sh1te
https://twitter.com/NBCSports/status/1275419414259798017

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

Bubba Smollett.

After his melodramatic display of victimhood stating he found a noose in his pit area. All of the sh*t he has caused, not only in the nascar community, there should be a punishment in place. He sure benefited from it. This was nothing more than a political, publicity stunt that he milked. Looking back on the grandiose display of virtue signaling just shows how pathetic and comicle the US is when it comes to this to stuff. React emotionally first. The demand for racism far outweighs the supply of racism.

https://twitter.com/NASCAR/status/1275542920972689409

Imagine my shock.

Overheal wrote: »

Well you know many folks here would argue the man who got arrested is solely responsible for what happened to him and got what he deserved.

Who would argue that.

Let’s wait and see.

Overheal wrote: »

The same type of people who pretend that Rayshard Brooks got what he deserved and was the only one responsible for what happened to him. All the same logic applies here.

You’re lost. Absolutely lost. Logic means nothing to you. I’d hate to live in the world you think you live in.

Hunky Monster wrote: »

You’re lost. Absolutely lost. Logic means nothing to you. I’d hate to live in the world you think you live in.

All spittle and no cohesive counter argument? Quelle surprise

Foxtrol wrote: »

It is more like they're shouting 'my house is on fire' and there are a mix of people saying 'what about all houses' and 'well I don't believe you because of xyz', you seem to fall into the latter group.

Correct. I’m in the latter group.

Foxtrol wrote: »

But you've ignored the multiple studies posted here and continue to cling to ones with incredibly shoddy data.

Foxtrol wrote: »

And local police departments collect the data for those studies. In many (I believe a majority) of places police are not required to capture any/all data points and no audit is carried out.

Pushing for systematic data gathering on use of force is one of the demands of protesters.

Let’s assume you’re right for a second. That police officers don’t record the races of suspects which I find rather incredulous. That local police departments don’t gather data properly and therefore the black crime rate is lower than it appears. The percentage of murders committed by blacks would be closer to 15% than 57% since that’s the percentage blacks make up in the population. Assuming that’s true, do you really think the data is so biased and so flawed as to be off to the tune of 42%???

Do you realise what you’re saying? Your literally implying that police departments around the country are in systematic and/or incompetent fashion, falsely/mistakenly recording murders committed by blacks at higher rates than they are in reality. Sorry but it’s an insane implication. Especially in the larger city police departments where blacks are pretty highly represented in the force. In Atlanta were Rayshard Brooks was killed blacks make up HALF the police force. Are those black officers in on the conspiracy?

In the last 15 years police in the US police have been PULLING BACK from minority areas because they don’t want the hassle of being accused of racism every time they make an arrest or pull somebody over. Things like “Broken Windows Policing” which helped turn New York City from a hell hole into something remotely liveable during the 90s have been abandoned. If anything these areas are under policed and still blacks are over represented in crime statistics.

Foxtrol wrote: »

They had an outsized impact because that is what gets clicks/viewers. Multiple large protests have taken in many cities every day since the murder of George Floyd and they fell completely off the national/international news.

Are you serious? The media bent itself into a pretzel trying to emphasise that these protests were mostly peaceful which I agree they were but often at the expense of properly covering the riots which were, you know, the reason every major city in America had a curfew imposed.

When I said “outsized impact” I didn’t mean media impact. What I meant was that a small minority of people caused entire cities to be shut down.

Foxtrol wrote: »

It highlights how poor the data is regarding police shootings. Given how it has been proven over the last few weeks that police officers have lied about incidents, despite knowing there was video evidence, how do you keep holding the belief that a) the data they have collected is accurate and/or b) that the missing data is not selectively left out (e.g., not filling out the race when POC are the deceased)?

Again, even if we assume you’re right there’s absolutely no way those crime statistics can be as wrong as you say they are.

When 15% percent of the population commits half of the murders, that is not a statistical screw up. Back in the early 60s and before, the black crime rate rates were no where near as high (crime among all races was low) but this was the era of Jim Crow and the KKK. Police actually were systemically racist back then. They could have fabricated crime stats with impunity if they wished but they didn’t. Black crime rates spiked from the 70s onwards due to the single motherhood crisis.

Foxtrol wrote: »

From what I've seen, you haven't once made any broader argument that there isn't systematic racism in the US.

Well logically speaking I can’t prove a negative but go on.

Foxtrol wrote: »

What you've instead done is find one flawed data point and hid behind it to prove they don't have a point.

It really is the easiest game in the world when someone cites a study, you go “Bbbbut, that data is flawed. It was collected by people who can’t collect data properly.” and then you avoid ever having to engage with an argument. Sad.

Foxtrol wrote: »

I've haven't seen you deal with the impact of slavery, segregation, education, wider policing issues, the bail system, etc etc.

The single biggest problem in the black community is single motherhood. It is the no. 1 predictor of criminality, school failure and poverty. Segregation ended in 1965. At that time the black single motherhood rate was 25%, In 1991 it was 68% and in 2015 it was 78%. Are we gonna blame segregation for all of the black community’s problems today? Did America get more racist between 1965 and 2015 and if so how did that happen?

On wider policing issues, I am in favour of mandatory body cameras, more training and dismantling police unions and a return to the proactive policing that helped turn America around in the 90s.

Foxtrol wrote: »

You're claiming that you are being gaslit but I don't see any evidence you've actually done anything to understand why they're saying that their house is on fire.

I know why they’re saying they’re house is on fire. But I’ve looked at the data and I can see it isn’t true so I don’t believe them.

Golf is my Game wrote: »

There clearly lots in the world who think the blacks are worth less and their as entitled to their point of view as anyone else

Yes agreed its okay to be racist its just a point of view


lol

Overheal wrote: »

Well you know many folks here would argue the man who got arrested is solely responsible for what happened to him and got what he deserved.

You'd argue that the 9/11 hijackers were practicing their 1st amendment rite.

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Conversation is over. Debate is shut down. .

i'm hearing a lot on the news and media that "we need to have this conversation" etc...
"conversation" is used as the buzzword but they don't want any conversation they want to hear their opinions come out of your mouth.


there is no conversation to be had with BLM and their supporters.they don't want it.

In fact , to give BLM their due (the actual group not the slogan) they are fairly clear on their website - they don't want agreement , they want to enforce their rules on us.