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Allow me to explain why the 'All Live Matter' hashtag is awful.

iamstop

If you are using the 'alllivesmatter' hashtag and don't know any better or are confused why people are mad at you let me explain it:
1. The original hashtag 'BlackLivesMatter' was a reaction to a string of well documented cases of police brutality that resulted in the death of a long list of unarmed black people. On top of that there was no appropriate punishment for the police officers involved. They mostly got paid or unpaid leave until the heat died down and continued back at their jobs after that. Meanwhile the families and friends of the deceased got no justice. This sends shockwaves of trauma throughout the immediate community, the country of the US and the rest of the black population outside of the US too. This original hashtag started to really shine a light of the system wide oppression of black people in America and elsewhere.
2. The oppressors decided that this hashtag would gather too much momentum and decided they needed to water it down and dilute it with 'alllivesmatter' to protect the racist system that they benefit from. And to some degree it's working (COINTELPRO). Every time you use that hashtag you are doing the work of the oppressor. You are being used as a pawn. You are being manipulated into diluting a movement that's main goal is end police brutality.
2a. Nobody using the 'BlackLivesMatter hashtag is saying Only Black Live Matter. It is universally understood that all lives matter.
3. So, now that you are educated on the deceitful and hateful and manipulative reasons for this 'alllivesmatter' hashtag to exist you should stop doing the work of the oppressor and stop using it and stop being used.
3a. If you've read all this and understand it and still use the 'alllivesmatter' hashtag then shame on you. You are a terrible human.

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AbusesToilets

Foxtrol wrote: »

It is more like they're shouting 'my house is on fire' and there are a mix of people saying 'what about all houses' and 'well I don't believe you because of xyz', you seem to fall into the latter group.

But you've ignored the multiple studies posted here and continue to cling to ones with incredibly shoddy data.

And local police departments collect the data for those studies. In many (I believe a majority) of places police are not required to capture any/all data points and no audit is carried out.

Pushing for systematic data gathering on use of force is one of the demands of protesters.

They had an outsized impact because that is what gets clicks/viewers. Multiple large protests have taken in many cities every day since the murder of George Floyd and they fell completely off the national/international news.

It highlights how poor the data is regarding police shootings. Given how it has been proven over the last few weeks that police officers have lied about incidents, despite knowing there was video evidence, how do you keep holding the belief that a) the data they have collected is accurate and/or b) that the missing data is not selectively left out (e.g., not filling out the race when POC are the deceased)?

As above

From what I've seen, you haven't once made any broader argument that there isn't systematic racism in the US. What you've instead done is find one flawed data point and hid behind it to prove they don't have a point. I've haven't seen you deal with the impact of slavery, segregation, education, wider policing issues, the bail system, etc etc.

You're claiming that you are being gaslit but I don't see any evidence you've actually done anything to understand why they're saying that their house is on fire.

You certainly likely have a point re: accurate data collection, but that doesn't change the reality of what we do know more. It says a lot that so much of BLM's focus is on white injustices, while studying comparatively mum when it comes to the ills of the black communities where people are being murdered daily.

ExMachina1000

Still waters wrote: »

Is that not racist also

Also i saw their goalie publicly condemn the banner, what a tool

It's the bat shīt world we now live in. This is only the beginning

Rodney Bathgate

tayto lover wrote: »

Saw a statistic that the police in the US have killed far more whites than blacks.
If this is so then how is it wrong to say that all lives matter?

Read the opening post - you have been told it is racist by a boards moderator. Is that not enough for you?

ExMachina1000

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

Read the opening post - you have been told it is racist by a boards moderator. Is that not enough for you?

White lives do matter. To say different makes you a racist

Rodney Bathgate

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

White lives do matter. To say different makes you a racist

I was being sarcastic.

The person who started this thread is the racist.

1800_Ladladlad

A deputy from Harris County Sheriff’s Office, Ellison Collins, invited a 61 y/o man to slap him in the face, the cop returned the slap with enough force to knock the older man to the ground, busting his head. Collins body cam was not on but the body cam of another officer’s got it all on camera.

Hash tag white privilege

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWa0b-l-K3Y

Rodney Bathgate

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

A deputy from Harris County Sheriff’s Office, Ellison Collins, invited a 61 y/o man to slap him in the face, the cop returned the slap with enough force to knock the older man to the ground, busting his head. Collins body cam was not on but the body cam of another officer’s got it all on camera.

Hash tag white privilege

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWa0b-l-K3Y

Don’t expect a reprimand.

Danzy

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Let’s say ONE of those players didn’t agree with these BLM protests. Let’s face it there probably is one. But the repercussions for that player should he not kneel or wear that jersey would be career suicide. The BLM movement is a leaderless mob of goons with no clear objective and they would absolutely destroy that player. His life would be over.

And yet people continue to support it.

It’s gotten to a point where you can’t disagree with it in any shape or form and not be labelled a racist/Nazi.

Conversation is over. Debate is shut down. Agree or you’re against black people. If you don’t agree we will end your life.

Sound lads really.

A fundamentalist faith.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

A deputy from Harris County Sheriff’s Office, Ellison Collins, invited a 61 y/o man to slap him in the face, the cop returned the slap with enough force to knock the older man to the ground, busting his head. Collins body cam was not on but the body cam of another officer’s got it all on camera.

Hash tag white privilege

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWa0b-l-K3Y

Overheal is in knots trying to figure out how to blame the white guy in the video.

Like I keep saying on all of these threads. The police forces need reform over there. It’s not a racism issue. It’s a police issue. Defund the cops and you’ll get chaos, give them more money and train them better and you’ll have less of this awful behaviour.

The mob have nobody to blame so they take their anger out on the police. It’s brainless and ineffective.

1800_Ladladlad

Bubba Smollett.

After his melodramatic display of victimhood stating he found a noose in his pit area. All of the sh*t he has caused, not only in the nascar community, there should be a punishment in place. He sure benefited from it. This was nothing more than a political, publicity stunt that he milked. Looking back on the grandiose display of virtue signaling just shows how pathetic and comicle the US is when it comes to this to stuff. React emotionally first. The demand for racism far outweighs the supply of racism.

https://twitter.com/NASCAR/status/1275542920972689409

1800_Ladladlad

Just look at this sh1te
https://twitter.com/NBCSports/status/1275419414259798017

Overheal

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

Bubba Smollett.

After his melodramatic display of victimhood stating he found a noose in his pit area. All of the sh*t he has caused, not only in the nascar community, there should be a punishment in place. He sure benefited from it. This was nothing more than a political, publicity stunt that he milked. Looking back on the grandiose display of virtue signaling just shows how pathetic and comicle the US is when it comes to this to stuff. React emotionally first. The demand for racism far outweighs the supply of racism.

https://twitter.com/NASCAR/status/1275542920972689409

It was NASCAR that blew up about it, though? The President of NASCAR made it quite a stir, and so did the whole sport. Bubba didn’t find it there his crew did and they perceived it to be a message. You’re making out Bubba to be Jussie Smollet and there’s little cause for that.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

Bubba Smollett.

After his melodramatic display of victimhood stating he found a noose in his pit area. All of the sh*t he has caused, not only in the nascar community, there should be a punishment in place. He sure benefited from it. This was nothing more than a political, publicity stunt that he milked. Looking back on the grandiose display of virtue signaling just shows how pathetic and comicle the US is when it comes to this to stuff. React emotionally first. The demand for racism far outweighs the supply of racism.

https://twitter.com/NASCAR/status/1275542920972689409

Imagine my shock.

Overheal

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

A deputy from Harris County Sheriff’s Office, Ellison Collins, invited a 61 y/o man to slap him in the face, the cop returned the slap with enough force to knock the older man to the ground, busting his head. Collins body cam was not on but the body cam of another officer’s got it all on camera.

Hash tag white privilege

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWa0b-l-K3Y

Well you know many folks here would argue the man who got arrested is solely responsible for what happened to him and got what he deserved.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Overheal wrote: »

Well you know many folks here would argue the man who got arrested is solely responsible for what happened to him and got what he deserved.

Who would argue that.

Let’s wait and see.

Overheal

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Who would argue that.

Let’s wait and see.

The same type of people who pretend that Rayshard Brooks got what he deserved and was the only one responsible for what happened to him. All the same logic applies here.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Overheal wrote: »

The same type of people who pretend that Rayshard Brooks got what he deserved and was the only one responsible for what happened to him. All the same logic applies here.

You’re lost. Absolutely lost. Logic means nothing to you. I’d hate to live in the world you think you live in.

dundalkfc10

Thread shout be renamed Raicst Scumbags this way

Irish to the core these lads (forgetting Irelands history)

Overheal

Hunky Monster wrote: »

You’re lost. Absolutely lost. Logic means nothing to you. I’d hate to live in the world you think you live in.

All spittle and no cohesive counter argument? Quelle surprise

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Overheal wrote: »

All spittle and no cohesive counter argument? Quelle surprise

You’re asking me to argue a hypothetical, ie. someone imaginary coming in here and blaming the white guy in the video.

I will argue with the best of them on boards but hypothetical imaginaries is where I draw the line.

Sean.3516

Foxtrol wrote: »

It is more like they're shouting 'my house is on fire' and there are a mix of people saying 'what about all houses' and 'well I don't believe you because of xyz', you seem to fall into the latter group.

Correct. I’m in the latter group.

Foxtrol wrote: »

But you've ignored the multiple studies posted here and continue to cling to ones with incredibly shoddy data.

Foxtrol wrote: »

And local police departments collect the data for those studies. In many (I believe a majority) of places police are not required to capture any/all data points and no audit is carried out.

Pushing for systematic data gathering on use of force is one of the demands of protesters.

Let’s assume you’re right for a second. That police officers don’t record the races of suspects which I find rather incredulous. That local police departments don’t gather data properly and therefore the black crime rate is lower than it appears. The percentage of murders committed by blacks would be closer to 15% than 57% since that’s the percentage blacks make up in the population. Assuming that’s true, do you really think the data is so biased and so flawed as to be off to the tune of 42%???

Do you realise what you’re saying? Your literally implying that police departments around the country are in systematic and/or incompetent fashion, falsely/mistakenly recording murders committed by blacks at higher rates than they are in reality. Sorry but it’s an insane implication. Especially in the larger city police departments where blacks are pretty highly represented in the force. In Atlanta were Rayshard Brooks was killed blacks make up HALF the police force. Are those black officers in on the conspiracy?

In the last 15 years police in the US police have been PULLING BACK from minority areas because they don’t want the hassle of being accused of racism every time they make an arrest or pull somebody over. Things like “Broken Windows Policing” which helped turn New York City from a hell hole into something remotely liveable during the 90s have been abandoned. If anything these areas are under policed and still blacks are over represented in crime statistics.

Foxtrol wrote: »

They had an outsized impact because that is what gets clicks/viewers. Multiple large protests have taken in many cities every day since the murder of George Floyd and they fell completely off the national/international news.

Are you serious? The media bent itself into a pretzel trying to emphasise that these protests were mostly peaceful which I agree they were but often at the expense of properly covering the riots which were, you know, the reason every major city in America had a curfew imposed.

When I said “outsized impact” I didn’t mean media impact. What I meant was that a small minority of people caused entire cities to be shut down.

Foxtrol wrote: »

It highlights how poor the data is regarding police shootings. Given how it has been proven over the last few weeks that police officers have lied about incidents, despite knowing there was video evidence, how do you keep holding the belief that a) the data they have collected is accurate and/or b) that the missing data is not selectively left out (e.g., not filling out the race when POC are the deceased)?

Again, even if we assume you’re right there’s absolutely no way those crime statistics can be as wrong as you say they are.

When 15% percent of the population commits half of the murders, that is not a statistical screw up. Back in the early 60s and before, the black crime rate rates were no where near as high (crime among all races was low) but this was the era of Jim Crow and the KKK. Police actually were systemically racist back then. They could have fabricated crime stats with impunity if they wished but they didn’t. Black crime rates spiked from the 70s onwards due to the single motherhood crisis.

Foxtrol wrote: »

From what I've seen, you haven't once made any broader argument that there isn't systematic racism in the US.

Well logically speaking I can’t prove a negative but go on.

Foxtrol wrote: »

What you've instead done is find one flawed data point and hid behind it to prove they don't have a point.

It really is the easiest game in the world when someone cites a study, you go “Bbbbut, that data is flawed. It was collected by people who can’t collect data properly.” and then you avoid ever having to engage with an argument. Sad.

Foxtrol wrote: »

I've haven't seen you deal with the impact of slavery, segregation, education, wider policing issues, the bail system, etc etc.

The single biggest problem in the black community is single motherhood. It is the no. 1 predictor of criminality, school failure and poverty. Segregation ended in 1965. At that time the black single motherhood rate was 25%, In 1991 it was 68% and in 2015 it was 78%. Are we gonna blame segregation for all of the black community’s problems today? Did America get more racist between 1965 and 2015 and if so how did that happen?

On wider policing issues, I am in favour of mandatory body cameras, more training and dismantling police unions and a return to the proactive policing that helped turn America around in the 90s.

Foxtrol wrote: »

You're claiming that you are being gaslit but I don't see any evidence you've actually done anything to understand why they're saying that their house is on fire.

I know why they’re saying they’re house is on fire. But I’ve looked at the data and I can see it isn’t true so I don’t believe them.

perfectkama

I dont agree with all lives as should be a given police behavior is the states is wrong
but i dont like being told i have told be a part of blm
rasism is in many of our live not just colour
blm group has no right to hijack sport lucky there are no supports in the grounds

Golf is my Game

I wouldn't have a problem with the black lives matter thing. At the least, it's a valid question and opens the debate. There clearly lots in the world who think the blacks are worth less and their as entitled to their point of view as anyone else. So talking about it will maybe have more people come to a concencus and settle it more or less. But agree there is no need for the white lives matter. That's always been pretty much assumed or automatic by both whites and black. it's never been in question. So it does distract from the conversation on whether black live matter or should matter as much as white and whatever which is what the football player started, and deserves to by discussed especially in the states. Don't like the use of people of colour though, so glad they didn't choose that. I don't thing any race should feel entitled to say they are the only ones of colour which would be discrimination itself which is a bit rich. I'm Irish but just as entitled to call myself a person of colour as a black lad

AbusesToilets

Overheal wrote: »

All spittle and no cohesive counter argument? Quelle surprise

Any chance of you defining Person of Colour for the class?

IvoryTower

Golf is my Game wrote: »

There clearly lots in the world who think the blacks are worth less and their as entitled to their point of view as anyone else

Yes agreed its okay to be racist its just a point of view

lol

Baggly

Hunky Monster wrote: »

You’re lost. Absolutely lost. Logic means nothing to you. I’d hate to live in the world you think you live in.

Overheal wrote: »

All spittle and no cohesive counter argument? Quelle surprise

Mod

Both of you dont post in this thread again.

1800_Ladladlad

Overheal wrote: »

Well you know many folks here would argue the man who got arrested is solely responsible for what happened to him and got what he deserved.

You'd argue that the 9/11 hijackers were practicing their 1st amendment rite.

Baggly

1800_Ladladlad wrote:

You'd argue that the 9/11 hijackers were practicing their 1st amendment rite.

He can't respond now so move on.

paw patrol

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Conversation is over. Debate is shut down. .

i'm hearing a lot on the news and media that "we need to have this conversation" etc...
"conversation" is used as the buzzword but they don't want any conversation they want to hear their opinions come out of your mouth.

there is no conversation to be had with BLM and their supporters.they don't want it.

In fact , to give BLM their due (the actual group not the slogan) they are fairly clear on their website - they don't want agreement , they want to enforce their rules on us.

Baggly

He can't respond so move on.