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Guinness Pro14 Season 2018-2019

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    #1142
    troyzer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,199 ✭✭✭troyzer


    I confused the 30 cap thing by the way, ignore that.


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    #1143
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    troyzer wrote: »
    By saying they're now going to be selecting players regardless of where they play their club rugby, it means most of the top players are just going to leave.

    I understand what they're trying to do but it'll mean the death of their club game. Something I imagine the other SANZAAR members aren't happy with as it dramatically reduces the value of the tournament.

    It does make sense though if the plan is to shift everyone into the Pro14 with the extra revenue that brings, especially if they get access to European rugby.

    I imagine SANZAAR with have to lump it. SA Rugby can't do anything about a currency and I'm sure a strong Springbok team is more valuable than strong SR franchises.

    Access to European Rugby could be key but it would require a rejig of how pool stages work. There's no way three blocks of one home and one away fixture could work with South African teams involved.


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    #1144
    troyzer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,199 ✭✭✭troyzer


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    troyzer wrote: »
    By saying they're now going to be selecting players regardless of where they play their club rugby, it means most of the top players are just going to leave.

    I understand what they're trying to do but it'll mean the death of their club game. Something I imagine the other SANZAAR members aren't happy with as it dramatically reduces the value of the tournament.

    It does make sense though if the plan is to shift everyone into the Pro14 with the extra revenue that brings, especially if they get access to European rugby.

    I imagine SANZAAR with have to lump it. SA Rugby can't do anything about a currency and I'm sure a strong Springbok team is more valuable than strong SR franchises.

    Access to European Rugby could be key but it would require a rejig of how pool stages work. There's no way three blocks of one home and one away fixture could work with South African teams involved.

    I don't think SANZAAR will have the option to lump it. Super Rugby is only a few seasons away from total collapse.

    Japan = big, rich market but nobody cares.
    New Zealand = rich, interested market but too small.
    Australia = very rich, small sized market but nobody cares.
    Argentina = big, poor market and nobody cares.
    South Africa = big, poor market but a lot of people care.

    Broadcasters are not going to pay the same amount when basically a third of the competition is fielding weak teams getting battered while their best players are up north.

    European rugby could be rejigged and I imagine South Africa would be such a coup that even the English and French would be happy to sit down and make it work.


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    #1145
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    17-19 to Cardiff with ten to go


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    #1146
    Tigerandahalf
    Registered Users Posts: 7,811 ✭✭✭Tigerandahalf


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    How do you figure this?

    It looks to me like they are cutting SR and Pro 14 squad numbers in order to retain as many Springboks as they can, as well as acknowledging how much ZAR vs EUR/GBP hamstrings their buying power.

    Didn't realise this was discussed here as had commented on the Super Rugby thread.

    There has been a lot of talk of SR going back to 12 teams in a round robin format - 5 NZ, 3 OZ, 3 SA plus the Jaguares is a possibility. That could mean a money saving, pooled for the SA national team players (better contracts to keep them in SA).

    However the SA union would be foolish to turn down prime time tv money from the north. They may have 3 teams also then in the pro14. That would explain the expansion of contracted players.

    That would be 6 pro teams all set up to compete in a revived Currie Cup.

    I don't know if that is all feasible but it is a possibility.

    Remember SA are now on the board of Pro14 and thus will want their teams in the Champions Cup (if they qualify), thus another possible revenue stream.


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    #1147
    troyzer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,199 ✭✭✭troyzer


    Tigerandahalf wrote: »
    thomond2006 wrote: »
    How do you figure this?

    It looks to me like they are cutting SR and Pro 14 squad numbers in order to retain as many Springboks as they can, as well as acknowledging how much ZAR vs EUR/GBP hamstrings their buying power.

    Didn't realise this was discussed here as had commented on the Super Rugby thread.

    There has been a lot of talk of SR going back to 12 teams in a round robin format - 5 NZ, 3 OZ, 3 SA plus the Jaguares is a possibility. That could mean a money saving, pooled for the SA national team players (better contracts to keep them in SA).

    However the SA union would be foolish to turn down prime time tv money from the north. They may have 3 teams also then in the pro14. That would explain the expansion of contracted players.

    That would be 6 pro teams all set up to compete in a revived Currie Cup.

    I don't know if that is all feasible but it is a possibility.

    Remember SA are now on the board of Pro14 and thus will want their teams in the Champions Cup (if they qualify), thus another possible revenue stream.

    Cup rugby is crucial. If they can get in on that it would literally change world rugby.


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    #1148
    Former Former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭Former Former


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    17-19 to Cardiff with ten to go

    Great result for Ulster.

    Not for Connacht.


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    #1149
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Going into tomorrow and Scarlets vs Cheetahs...

    Munster (57): Scarlets (A), Zebre (H), HCC QF, Cardiff (H), Benetton (A), Possible HCC SF, Connacht (H)

    Glasgow (56): Zebre (A), Cheetahs (H), HCC QF, Ulster (H), Leinster (A), Possible HCC SF, Edinburgh (H)

    Cardiff (42): Kings (H), Scarlets (H), Munster (A), Connacht (A), Ospreys (H)

    Connacht (42): Ospreys (H), Benetton (H), ECC QF, Zebre (A), Possible ECC SF, Cardiff (H), Munster (A)

    Ospreys (39):, Connacht (A), Dragons (H), Cheetahs (A), Kings (A), Cardiff (A)

    Cheetahs (36): Scarlets (A), Leinster (A), Glasgow (A), Ospreys (H), Dragons (H), Kings (H)


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    #1150
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Benetton (46): Edinburgh (H), Connacht (A), Leinster (A), Munster (H), Zebre (A)

    Ulster (44): Dragons (A), Kings (H), HCC QF, Glasgow (A), Edinburgh (A), Possible HCC SF, Leinster (H)

    Edinburgh (42): Benetton (A), Leinster (H), HCC QF, Scarlets (A), Ulster (H), Possible HCC SF, Glasgow (A)

    Scarlets (36): Cheetahs (H), Munster (H), Cardiff (A), Edinburgh (H), Zebre (H), Dragons (A)


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    #1151
    troyzer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,199 ✭✭✭troyzer


    Scarlets, Cheetahs and Ospreys are out for me. They all have really tough fixtures.

    I think it'll be Munster, Glasgow, Connacht and Leinster, Ulster, Treviso.


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    #1152
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Edinburgh must win at Benetton or they're done.
    Scarlets would need to run the table but that's not impossible given the remaining games. The last three could net them 13/14 points.


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    #1153
    Jump_In_Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 3,630 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    Going into tomorrow and Scarlets vs Cheetahs...

    Munster (57): Scarlets (A), Zebre (H), HCC QF, Cardiff (H), Benetton (A), Possible HCC SF, Connacht (H)

    Glasgow (56): Zebre (A), Cheetahs (H), HCC QF, Ulster (H), Leinster (A), Possible HCC SF, Leinster (A), Edinburgh (H)

    Cardiff (42): Kings (H), Scarlets (H), Munster (A), Connacht (A), Ospreys (H)

    Connacht (42): Ospreys (H), Benetton (H), ECC QF, Zebre (A), Possible ECC SF, Cardiff (H), Munster (A)

    Ospreys (39):, Connacht (A), Dragons (H), Cheetahs (A), Kings (A), Cardiff (A)

    Cheetahs (36): Scarlets (A), Leinster (A), Glasgow (A), Ospreys (H), Dragons (H), Kings (H)

    You have Leinster twice against Glasgow?


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    #1154
    Burkie1203
    Registered Users Posts: 11,141 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    Jump_In_Jack wrote: »
    You have Leinster twice against Glasgow?


    He had Glasgow away to Leinster before and after the Euro SF weekend. Only one game after the SF weekend in Pro14.


    Connacht v Ospreys & Cardiff are huge games. Connacht win both and they make a play-off IMO.


    Munster (57): Scarlets (A), Zebre (H), HCC QF, Cardiff (H), Benetton (A), Possible HCC SF, Connacht (H)

    Glasgow (56): Zebre (A), Cheetahs (H), HCC QF, Ulster (H), Leinster (A), Possible HCC SF, Edinburgh (H)

    Cardiff (42): Kings (H), Scarlets (H), Munster (A), Connacht (A), Ospreys (H)

    Connacht (42): Ospreys (H), Benetton (H), ECC QF, Zebre (A), Cardiff (H), Possible ECC SF, Munster (A)

    Ospreys (39):, Connacht (A), Dragons (H), Cheetahs (A), Kings (A), Cardiff (A)

    Cheetahs (36): Scarlets (A), Leinster (A), Glasgow (A), Ospreys (H), Dragons (H), Kings (H)


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    #1155
    Burkie1203
    Registered Users Posts: 11,141 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    Cheetahs not bothered today


    https://twitter.com/BBCSportWales/status/1099661104945512449?s=19


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    #1156
    Burkie1203
    Registered Users Posts: 11,141 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    28-7. Jake Ball with cheap shot on cheetahs try scorer unpunished.


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    #1157
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    A stunning try just now for the Cheetahs. Maxwane has surely the top tryscorer berth wrapped up.


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    #1158
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,378 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    A stunning try just now for the Cheetahs. Maxwane has surely the top tryscorer berth wrapped up.
    Wonder who he'll be playing for next year.


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    #1159
    Burkie1203
    Registered Users Posts: 11,141 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    awec wrote: »
    Wonder who he'll be playing for next year.

    Scarlets


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    #1160
    Burkie1203
    Registered Users Posts: 11,141 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    35-21 after 50.

    Defending is awful

    Cheetahs could win this yet


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    #1161
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Munster (57): Scarlets (A), Zebre (H), HCC QF, Cardiff (H), Benetton (A), Possible HCC SF, Connacht (H)

    Glasgow (56): Zebre (A), Cheetahs (H), HCC QF, Ulster (H), Leinster (A), Possible HCC SF, Edinburgh (H)

    Cardiff (42): Kings (H), Scarlets (H), Munster (A), Connacht (A), Ospreys (H)

    Connacht (42): Ospreys (H), Benetton (H), ECC QF, Zebre (A), Possible ECC SF, Cardiff (H), Munster (A)

    Ospreys (39):, Connacht (A), Dragons (H), Cheetahs (A), Kings (A), Cardiff (A)

    Cheetahs (36): Leinster (A), Glasgow (A), Ospreys (H), Dragons (H), Kings (H)


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    #1162
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Benetton (46): Edinburgh (H), Connacht (A), Leinster (A), Munster (H), Zebre (A)

    Ulster (44): Dragons (A), Kings (H), HCC QF, Glasgow (A), Edinburgh (A), Possible HCC SF, Leinster (H)

    Edinburgh (42): Benetton (A), Leinster (H), HCC QF, Scarlets (A), Ulster (H), Possible HCC SF, Glasgow (A)

    Scarlets (41): Munster (H), Cardiff (A), Edinburgh (H), Zebre (H), Dragons (A)


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    #1163
    Dubinusa
    Registered Users Posts: 8,142 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    awec wrote: »
    Wonder who he'll be playing for next year.

    Munster!!! Lol


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    #1164
    Eod100
    Registered Users Posts: 11,649 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    So looks like Leinster, Munster, Glasgow qualified for Europe. Cardiff, Connacht, Ospreys and Benneton, Ulster, Edinburgh, and Scarlets battling for the other 4 spots.

    Will have a better idea of whether there is possibility of an extra spot for the Pro14 after the Champions Cup and Challenge Cup quarter-finals.


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    #1165
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Behind a paywall: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/sport/six-nations-in-talks-with-equity-firm-cvc-capital-partners-fwp7z0mcd
    The Six Nations unions have begun talks with CVC Capital Partners, which has already bought a shareholding in England’s Premiership clubs, about selling a share in their own commercial future to the private equity firm.

    While CVC’s talks with the Six Nations unions are in their infancy, it is much farther down the road in negotiations with the Guinness Pro14, the club competition for sides from Wales, Ireland, Scotland and Italy plus two South African franchises.

    There are likely to be more CVC deals to come, of which the Pro14 is probably next to be completed. It makes clear sense for CVC to have the Premiership and Pro14 side by side. By merging TV and other commercial rights for the two competitions, the value of the whole would outstrip two separate entities.


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    #1166
    troyzer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,199 ✭✭✭troyzer


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    Behind a paywall: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/sport/six-nations-in-talks-with-equity-firm-cvc-capital-partners-fwp7z0mcd

    It's hard to see how this would work with union control.


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    #1167
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    troyzer wrote: »
    It's hard to see how this would work with union control.

    CVC would become a minority shareholder I suppose. I think the league would benefit from having a voice that is solely concerned about the bottom line.


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    #1168
    troyzer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,199 ✭✭✭troyzer


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    CVC would become a minority shareholder I suppose. I think the league would benefit from having a voice that is solely concerned about the bottom line.

    True, I can see the value of a commercial partner as long as they don't take the reins completely.

    Still, it's difficult to see where the growth is going to come from and what they can actually do.


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    #1169
    Tigerandahalf
    Registered Users Posts: 7,811 ✭✭✭Tigerandahalf


    British/Irish league I wonder?
    Putting 2 leagues under 1 tv contract is difficult. How do you manage the schedule?


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    #1170
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    I think this is an inevitability. The Irish provinces are in decent shape but the other Pro14 unions/teams desperately need money. The Scots are currently outperforming IMO but I'd worry how sustainable that is. Take a look at Glasgow who lost Finn Russell this season and Stuart Hogg for next season. As mentioned by other posters, the Welsh have lost so many frontline internationals in recent years (some have since returned).


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    #1171
    troyzer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,199 ✭✭✭troyzer


    Surely someone loses out under a single TV contract? Every single team would get more money?


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