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Can a Christian vote for unlimited abortion?

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    #1382
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,739 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    end of the road wrote: »
    to be fair, i did state in my post "outside medical reasons" meaning i would be okay with abortion for medical reasons such as a threat to the mother's life, cases of FFA, where the baby cannot be caried viably or live to term, or cases where the mother is under threat of permanent injury or disability.

    But they aren't able to get an abortion due to the 8th. The same 8th you were just saying you're okay with as the current situation saves lives.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #1383
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    This post has been deleted.


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    #1384
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,468 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    ....... wrote: »
    You have already been shown the research that disproves your "belief" above.

    You refused to accept the Lancet article and refused to state what part of the research you had an issue with.

    So evidence has been provided to you to show that abortion bans do not reduce abortions.

    You have not shown a shred of evidence to show that removing an abortion ban will increase the number of abortions.

    And never has or will, on any thread on any subject. I don't even feed it anymore because its a waste of time.


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    #1385
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,031 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Delirium wrote: »
    But they aren't able to get an abortion due to the 8th. The same 8th you were just saying you're okay with as the current situation saves lives.


    mothers who's lives are under threat i believe can get abortions in ireland now, the law was changed in 2013. i believe that law can be extended for other extreme cases.
    ....... wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    i actually did make a statement on why i believe the research to not be reliable. youdidn't like the answer.
    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    And never has or will, on any thread on any subject. I don't even feed it anymore because its a waste of time.

    there is nothing to "feed" and i'm not an "it" . i'm a human being. just because you can't argue against what i say that doesn't mean you should not debate with me.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #1386
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,739 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    MOD NOTE

    Off-topic post deleted.

    There were two on-thread warnings to cease.

    Any subsequent posts on sodomy will be deleted and carded.

    Thanks for your attention.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #1387
    EirWatchr
    Registered Users Posts: 119 ✭✭EirWatchr


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    And never has or will, on any thread on any subject. I don't even feed it anymore because its a waste of time.

    UK abortion rate increased from 10.8 in 1974 to 16.0 in 2015 (was introduced in 1963)

    http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN04418/SN04418.pdf

    US abortion rate from 16.3 in 1973 (introduction of Row v. Wade) to 29.3 in the following 12 years.

    https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/01/17/509734620/u-s-abortion-rate-falls-to-lowest-level-since-roe-v-wade

    In both jurisdications, abortion rates levelled (or in the case of US, radically declined) after 4 decades under the reality of a liberal legalised abortion regime (and possibly due to resultant reduction in size of demographic of younger women of childbearing age)

    The number of Irish women travelling to have abortions in the UK also ramped up since freedom of information and freedom to travel for abortion there (and has also since halved since 2001 peak).

    https://www.ifpa.ie/Hot-Topics/Abortion/Statistics


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    #1388
    uptherebels
    Registered Users Posts: 1,587 ✭✭✭uptherebels


    end of the road wrote: »
    mothers who's lives are under threat i believe can get abortions in ireland now, the law was changed in 2013. i believe that law can be extended for other extreme cases.



    i actually did make a statement on why i believe the research to not be reliable. youdidn't like the answer.



    there is nothing to "feed" and i'm not an "it" . i'm a human being. just because you can't argue against what i say that doesn't mean you should not debate with me.
    As has been said to you many times, you are not here to debate, you are here by your own admission so that boards doesn't become a pro choice echo chamber.
    You refusing to hear what is being said doesn't mean people cant argue against you:rolleyes:


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    #1389
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Abortion is a disaster for the unborn child ... but it is also very problematical for many of the women who have one as well.

    Here is the other side of abortion ... told by women who have had abortions.

    Two interesting quotes from the video :-

    'Abortion is not good healthcare for women ... ever.'

    'Many women felt they had no choice ... many women were forced into that decision'



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    #1390
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,468 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    J C wrote: »
    Abortion is a disaster for the unborn child ... but it is also very problematical for many of the women who have one as well.

    Here is the other side of abortion ... told by women who have had abortions.


    And fir every video you post i can post multiple articlres and video clips of women who do not regret having abortions.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/life-style/abortion-no-regrets-myths-dispel-pregnancy-terminations-women-pro-choice-a7726701.html%3famp

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.glamour.com/story/was-i-supposed-to-regret-my-abortion-because-i-dont/amp

    www.google.co.uk/amp/amp.timeinc.net/time/3956781/women-abortion-regret-reproductive-health

    http://www.medicaldaily.com/restrictive-abortion-policies-surface-most-women-dont-regret-choice-abort-420584

    http://m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/4-women-on-why-abortion-was-the-right-choice-for-them_us_56422e75e4b0411d3072b09d


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    #1391
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,031 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    uptherebels wrote: »
    As has been said to you many times, you are not here to debate, you are here by your own admission so that boards doesn't become a pro choice echo chamber.
    You refusing to hear what is being said doesn't mean people cant argue against you

    of course i'm here to debate, i wouldn't be here otherwise. if i was here to stop boards from becoming an abortionist echo-chamber, then i have lost that battle as one part of boards has already become such where pro-life views aren't allowed. so that would be a bad strategy.
    i have listened to what others have said however what they have to say is for the most part wrong and therefore i'm not going to support or agree with it.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #1392
    EirWatchr
    Registered Users Posts: 119 ✭✭EirWatchr


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    And fir every video you post i can post multiple articlres and video clips of women who do not regret having abortions.

    Don't forget this one:

    https://melissaohden.com/

    Unfortunately, I couldn't find a link to testimony of a post-aborted person who doesn't regret abortion.


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    #1393
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    And fir every video you post i can post multiple articlres and video clips of women who do not regret having abortions.
    You probably can ... but this doesn't eliminate the hurt that abortion causes women.

    Here is a woman who had three abortions ... and afterwards became a Born Again Christian ... and turned her life about.



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    #1394
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,468 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    J C wrote: »
    You probably can ... but this doesn't eliminate the hurt that abortion causes women.

    Here is a woman who had three abortions ... and afterwards became a Born Again Christian ... and turned her life about.


    Thats all well and good but from what i can see the VAST majority of women who have had abortions have no regrets.

    Also, what did you mean by "turned her life around"?


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    #1395
    uptherebels
    Registered Users Posts: 1,587 ✭✭✭uptherebels


    end of the road wrote: »
    of course i'm here to debate, i wouldn't be here otherwise. if i was here to stop boards from becoming an abortionist echo-chamber, then i have lost that battle as one part of boards has already become such where pro-life views aren't allowed. so that would be a bad strategy.
    i have listened to what others have said however what they have to say is for the most part wrong and therefore i'm not going to support or agree with it.

    you mean that part of boards where you are banned for refusing to provide any evidence for your claims?
    I've some good news for you. That wasn't because pro life views aren't allowed, just repeatedly making inaccurate claims with zero supporting sources. You should be happy with this,as it allows actual debate to occur instead of soapboxing etc.

    You haven't listened to anything. While you don't have to support it, people showing you evidence and you saying no, wrong without having anything tangible to refute it with is not debate.


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    #1396
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    J C wrote:
    Only customs know that. It is quite true that whatever happens the 8th, abortion of Irish unborn children will continue.

    J C wrote:
    Only customs know that. It is quite true that whatever happens the 8th, abortion of Irish unborn children will continue.

    J C wrote:
    We're at over 1200 posts ... and both sides have presented 'logical' arguments for their positions. Here is an interesting Chrisitian song from the possible perspective of the unborn child herself ...


    Those questions are not aimed at you JC so no need for you to answer.

    I'll pass on the song, thanks all the same.


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    #1397
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    Nick Park wrote:
    Whether those who tick 'Christian' on a census are genuine Christians or not is a matter of opinion. It is hardly a verifiable fact - no more than your or my differing subjective opinions about when personhood begins can be verified or falsified objectively.

    Nick Park wrote:
    Have you ever thought that you could accept the reality that some people have different opinions, rather than labelling them as liars because their opinions are different to yours?


    Again the question wasn't aimed at you but since you took the time to at least construct an answer then I'll reply.

    I have no problem with a million different opinions to mine. What I do have a problem with is people stating as FACT that which is their opinion only.

    If you take a look at other threads on this issue you will know that a particular poster has been banned for making statements as facts with no backup whatsoever.


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    #1398
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Thats all well and good but from what i can see the VAST majority of women who have had abortions have no regrets.

    Also, what did you mean by "turned her life around"?

    If she managed to find away to live without putting herself through the trauma of having to go through one abortion after the next, then did she not turn her life around?


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    #1399
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    end of the road wrote:
    when it comes to removing rights, absolutely. i have no problem being anti-democratic in exceptional circumstances, such as where rights will be removed or a decisian that will negatively effect the country is made.


    Well you can ignore it all you like sure. Won't stop it happening.


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    #1400
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    J C wrote: »
    Abortion is a disaster for the unborn child ... but it is also very problematical for many of the women who have one as well.

    Here is the other side of abortion ... told by women who have had abortions.

    Two interesting quotes from the video :-

    'Abortion is not good healthcare for women ... ever.'

    'Many women felt they had no choice ... many women were forced into that decision'


    Ah yes Women Hurt, the offshoot of Rachel's Vineyard. Gotta keep telling women they have regrets, gotta keep those expensive retreats on the go, nice little earner for someone

    I won't deny some women do feel regret but are you surprised when we live in a country with erratic aftercare? Not to mention the stigma, what do you think it does to a woman who feels guilty to read that she's a baby killer?

    But it doesn't change the fact that the overwhelming majority have no regrets.


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    #1401
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    WhiteRoses wrote:
    Reminds me of being in school when you didn’t know the answer to a question on the test, so just waffled on without really answering the question and hoped for the best.


    It's called answering the question you wish you got. You're right it's just a copy and paste job at this stage.


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    #1402
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    So now we’re not just weaponising Down syndrome kids and their families against their wishes, but we’re presuming to assume we know what women feel or what level of regret??

    Thread title should really read ‘as a Christian can we really afford to allow women to make up their own minds?’

    Some of the comments here are exactly why undecided people will vote for repeal. Some horrible backward thinking on show. It’s not the 1920s anymore folks. You’re losing the debate with this sort of oppressive and misleading approach.


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    #1403
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Thats all well and good but from what i can see the VAST majority of women who have had abortions have no regrets.
    How do you know that?
    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Also, what did you mean by "turned her life around"?
    She got off the self-destructive path that she was on up to then ... using men ... and in turn, being used by them.
    ... and aborting the result.


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    #1404
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 29,031 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    uptherebels wrote: »
    you mean that part of boards where you are banned for refusing to provide any evidence for your claims?
    I've some good news for you. That wasn't because pro life views aren't allowed, just repeatedly making inaccurate claims with zero supporting sources. You should be happy with this,as it allows actual debate to occur instead of soapboxing etc.

    i'm afraid you are inaccurate. i cannot say any more then that as technically it's discussion of a moderation issue so you will have to pm me if you want to respond on it.
    david75 wrote: »
    Some of the comments here are exactly why undecided people will vote for repeal.

    not true. i'm afraid this is wishful thinking. if undecided voters vote for repeal it will be on the basis of what they really feel deep down and the basis of the arguments. not some comments on boards.ie

    david75 wrote: »
    You’re losing the debate with this sort of oppressive and misleading approach.

    again this is likely wishful thinking on your part. there is no evidence either side is losing the debate at this stage.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #1405
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,468 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    J C wrote: »
    How do you know that?

    Because from what i have seen the vast majority of women dont regret having an abortion! Please feel free to provide evidence to disprove my point.


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    #1406
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    end of the road wrote:
    again this is likely wishful thinking on your part. there is no evidence either side is losing the debate at this stage.


    Except for all the polls that is?


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    #1407
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    david75 wrote: »
    So now we’re not just weaponising Down syndrome kids and their families against their wishes, but we’re presuming to assume we know what women feel or what level of regret??
    You're the guys presuming that most women have no regrets.
    I'm just letting post-abortion women talk about the hurt that abortion has caused them.
    david75 wrote: »
    Thread title should really read ‘as a Christian can we really afford to allow women to make up their own minds?’
    Why?

    ... here is a woman describing her what abortion did to her ... and how she recovered her life after abortion


    david75 wrote: »
    Some of the comments here are exactly why undecided people will vote for repeal. Some horrible backward thinking on show. It’s not the 1920s anymore folks. You’re losing the debate with this sort of oppressive and misleading approach.
    All we can do is lay the choice ... of life and death ... before people ... and urge them to choose life.
    ... it's as simple ... and stark as that.


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    #1408
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Because from what i have seen the vast majority of women dont regret having an abortion! Please feel free to provide evidence to disprove my point.
    ... so it's just your opinion .... right.


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    #1409
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,468 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    J C wrote: »
    ... so it's just your opinion .... right.

    In the same way that you and others post your opinions. Yourself and several other posters have for years posted your opinions without posting tangible evidence to back up your claims.

    As i said from the evidence i have seen so far the VAST majority of women who have had abortiins do not regret the decision that they chose to make.


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    #1410
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,739 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    J C wrote: »
    ... so it's just your opinion .... right.

    There have been numerous studies that show it to be so.

    For example:
    Ninety-five percent of women who have had abortions do not regret the decision to terminate their pregnancies, according to a study published last week in the multidisciplinary academic journal PLOS ONE.
    The study was carried out by researchers from the Bixby Center for Global Reproductive Health at UC San Francisco’s School of Medicine, and from the university’s division of biostatistics.

    Its conclusions come after a three-year research period in which nearly 670 women were regularly surveyed on the subject of their abortions. The sample group was diverse with regard to standard social metrics (race, education, and employment) and on the matter of what the study calls pregnancy and abortion circumstances. Financial considerations were given as the reasons for an abortion by 40 percent of women; 36 percent had decided it was “not the right time;” 26 percent of women found the decision very or somewhat easy; 53 percent found it very or somewhat difficult.

    Source

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #1411
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    In the same way that you and others post your opinions. Yourself and several other posters have for years posted your opinions without posting tangible evidence to back up your claims.

    As i said from the evidence i have seen so far the VAST majority of women who have had abortiins do not regret the decision that they chose to make.
    Saying so doesn't make it so.



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