What to buy for €20-€25k?

Soarer · 29-11-2017 8:45pm #1

Evening all.

Should be changing the Leaf in the next while. Willing to spend a decent amount to get a decently spec'd car that will last me a while.
Have no problem going to the UK for a car, and that probably where the value is.
So what would people recommend?
30kW Leaf?
Ioniq?
E-Golf?
Zoe?
Soul?
i3?
i3 REx?

I'm not interested in distance travelled @ 120km/h. I spend most of my day pottering around at under 80km/h, stop-start driving, school runs, etc.
I currently have a range of 70-80kms at those sort of speeds, so any of the above will obviously be a big step up.
I like gadgets/kit, so I'd gladly sacrifice range for toys.

So the floor is open lads.
Obviously I'd prefer unbiased owners views on the above. That probably excludes Unkel, Mad_Lad, and ShefWedFan!

cros13 · 29-11-2017 9:04pm

Ioniq is pretty much out due to availability issues.

You'd get a 30kWh Tekna Leaf in pristine condition in any color you want but it wouldn't be as fun as some of the other options.

If you were willing to wait until summer the SV 40kWh Leaf would be an option.

Well specced 2015 i3s would be in that price range... avoiding the REx would mean the ability to upgrade the battery later if you wished. If you replaced the 20" alloys with 19s and ensure it has DC rapid charging this is a good 'un: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201711201405531

Zoe... you may not like the drop in usable space and power coming from a Leaf.

Soul - good EV and something a bit different - given they were never offered in Ireland, but not as good as the alternatives for the money.

E-Golf - Not many about. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201711081053518 is an option. i3 better for similar money.

The Mercedes B250e is another option in the price range provided you don't mind the lack of rapid charging - https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201709159330475

goz83 · 29-11-2017 9:17pm

What about an env200 Tekna? So roomy

cros13 · 29-11-2017 9:42pm

Yup, that's an option too - https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201710070054736

29-11-2017 10:25pm

I didn't think BMW would offer a battery upgrade outside of Germany yet ?

I3 is a really fantastic car, Rex gives so much peace of mind given our current infrastructure and it's especially more valuable with the older battery which charges slower from the fast chargers compared to the 33 Kwh, though I've no personal experience with the 22 Kwh so can't confirm this directly just what I read on the net.

Anyway, I3 is small but roomy for it's size, coming from a Leaf as I have the I3 is a huge step up.

You'll find loads of older battery I3's especially in the U.K with a good spec.

If you can get the new Leaf on your budget then it's worth serious consideration + it's got a decent power increase and range of course + it's slightly larger and larger than I3 with larger boot.

Range of 40 Kwh not really known yet but at some point on a longer trip you'll need to recharge and that brings us back to the current state of the network and one reason I got the rex.

Orebro · 29-11-2017 11:52pm

Sounds like you’re not in a mad panic to change car, so I’d wait until the 2018 SV Leaf becomes available as mentioned above. Hopefully Nissan will include the Leaf in their scrappage scheme for 182 so your car would be worth a decent few quid on trade in too.

cros13 · 30-11-2017 12:51am

Deleted User wrote:

I didn't think BMW would offer a battery upgrade outside of Germany yet ?

Yes, just not offered in the UK or US and restricted to BEVs. BMW Ireland has offered pricing in the past but I'm not sure anyone has actually accepted. A lot of i3 battery upgrades have been done in the Netherlands.

30-11-2017 1:18am

I still think that if buying an I3 that the rex is the best option for now, sure it's not quiet as efficient as the BEV but the Rex offers a lot of advantages.

I'm not sure most people would pay for a battery upgrade ?

Soarer · 30-11-2017 10:34am

Cheers for all the input lads.
Working through the replies....
@ cros: I actually emailed them about that i3. No DC. I might touch base with you via PM to check another one.
It's the 30kWh Teknas that I started looking at. Spending big money to go from a Leaf to a Leaf doesn't sit right with me somehow. There's obviously a big upgrade though.
Interesting that the i3 would be better than the e-Golf. Would they have similar range?
The Merc is nice, but don't think I'd do without the rapid.

@Mad_Lad: You're the reason I'm looking at the i3. Had discounted it because of the 2 back seats, but like you said in another thread, we can take the other car if we need 5 seats! Your issue with the charging speeds on AC has me confused/worried.
Also confused the way BMW use mah or something to rate their batteries.

@Orebro: Yeah, I'm in no mad rush. I just have an itch I want to scratch at the minute. Keeping the head for a few months would probably be the best option.

cros13 · 30-11-2017 10:45am

Soarer wrote: »

It's the 30kWh Teknas that I started looking at. Spending big
money to go from a Leaf to a Leaf doesn't sit right with me somehow.

Yeah, I'd agree.

Soarer wrote: »

Interesting that the i3 would be better than the e-Golf. Would they have similar range?

Pretty much, i3 would have the edge due to being more efficient though. Big differences are the i3 is a purpose built EV, has more power and better handling.

Soarer wrote: »

Also confused the way BMW use mah or something to rate their batteries.

That's BMW being deliberately obtuse to confuse people into thinking they have a competitive product with Tesla. They list the cell Ah instead of the pack capacity.

60Ah = 22kWh
94Ah = 34kWh
120Ah (next year) = 44kWh

ELM327 · 30-11-2017 11:03am

As a leaf driver: If I was spending 20-25k I'd be getting nothing other than an Ioniq tbh.
So far ahead of the current crop of EV. IMO still better than the new leaf aswell.

thierry14 · 30-11-2017 11:09am

Pretty much sums up the EV market this thread

25k is alot of money and bloody nothing out there

While in the ICE world a brand new diesel Golf is 25k

Still alot of work to do

cros13 · 30-11-2017 11:58am

thierry14 wrote: »

Pretty much sums up the EV market this thread

25k is alot of money and bloody nothing out there

While in the ICE world a brand new diesel Golf is 25k

Still alot of work to do

True, But in fairness... 2-3 years ago our only answer would have been asking whether Soarer wanted an old Leaf or a low specced new Leaf.

30-11-2017 12:51pm

ELM327 wrote: »

As a leaf driver: If I was spending 20-25k I'd be getting nothing other than an Ioniq tbh.
So far ahead of the current crop of EV. IMO still better than the new leaf aswell.

Not a new Leaf 40 kwh ? 150 hp ?

Not sure you'll find an Ioniq for 25 K if you can even find one, might be lucky to get a demo for 25K I suppose.

30-11-2017 12:57pm

Soarer wrote: »

I actually emailed them about that i3. No DC. I might touch base with you via PM to check another one.

Yes I forgot that some early I3's have no DC, need to be careful on that. Some XE newer Gen leafs also had no fast charge but think most in Ireland have but always better to check.

Soarer wrote: »

@Mad_Lad: You're the reason I'm looking at the i3. Had discounted it because of the 2 back seats, but like you said in another thread, we can take the other car if we need 5 seats! Your issue with the charging speeds on AC has me confused/worried.
Also confused the way BMW use mah or something to rate their batteries.

If you're not buying a 94AH I3 you don't need to worry about that as it will charge at 3.5 Kw on a 16 amp supply or 7 Kw on a 32 amp supply with the provided cable.

And I think now I'm pretty confident that the I3 94 Ah charges at 7 Kw max single phase and 11 Kw 3 phase, I just need a 3 phase cable for 11 Kw AC which will still allow 7Kw max on single phase.

unkel · 30-11-2017 1:01pm

You don't really mention any requirements (except that you don't drive fast)

What are you looking for in a car? There are plenty of EVs that you can buy within your budget, which is a good start!

Soarer wrote: »

I'd prefer unbiased owners views on the above. That probably excludes Unkel, Mad_Lad, and ShefWedFan!

Any owner of anything bought that particular thing for a reason, so they are always a bit biased about what they own. But honestly, I try to be as objective as I can about EVs! See my short review of the eGolf that I posted this morning

Soarer · 30-11-2017 1:31pm

Requirements?
I suppose DC charging is a requirement.
Other than that, no real "requirements", only "that'd be nice" things.
Gadgets/Toys.
Leather.
etc.

Shefwedfan · 30-11-2017 2:06pm

Soarer wrote: »

Requirements?
I suppose DC charging is a requirement.
Other than that, no real "requirements", only "that'd be nice" things.
Gadgets/Toys.
Leather.
etc.

I will try to be unbiased

For 25k I would start at premium brands and see what you can get. BMW, Merc and VW of course:P

You will get a lot of car for that money.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201710049944157?fuel-type=Electric&sort=sponsored&make=MERCEDES-BENZ&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New&postcode=se19pz&advertising-location=at_cars&radius=1501&page=1

If you want something different, I wonder how many electric Merc's in Ireland?

eGolf does not really come with leather seats. I haven't seen one yet anyway. I am sure you could haggle a good deal on this one: https://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/volkswagen/golf/used-2015-151-volkswagen-golf-e-golf-dublin-fpa-5001655738401152932

peposhi · 30-11-2017 2:52pm

Going for a 30kwh Leaf at that price would make a good sense if you are going from a 24kwh XE or SV towards an 30Kwh SVE with 6.6kw charger. It gives you a piece of mind that you are getting a car you know top to bottom, is reliable and suits the charging network in Ireland should you need some extra mileage. I did that and back in Jan and I must say it worked out quite well.

My pick would be an i3 REX - gives you luxury look, gadgets and flexibility but less roomy and hard to find in that price bracket. Yet.

IOniq - nope. Fantastic car. Limited by the CCS very poor rollout thoroughout the country. But then you said - range - not an issue, so what’s not good to me might suit perfectly your needs (roomy and pleasant to drive)

No eGolf experience so I will not upset ShefWedFan here

Shefwedfan · 30-11-2017 2:57pm

peposhi wrote: »

No eGolf experience so I will not upset ShefWedFan here

In the end guys it is a car and I change cars like the wind

Who is to say I am not looking for something new for 2018:eek::P

Soarer · 30-11-2017 3:22pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I will try to be unbiased

For 25k I would start at premium brands and see what you can get. BMW, Merc and VW of course:P

You will get a lot of car for that money.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201710049944157?fuel-type=Electric&sort=sponsored&make=MERCEDES-BENZ&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New&postcode=se19pz&advertising-location=at_cars&radius=1501&page=1

If you want something different, I wonder how many electric Merc's in Ireland?

eGolf does not really come with leather seats. I haven't seen one yet anyway. I am sure you could haggle a good deal on this one: https://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/volkswagen/golf/used-2015-151-volkswagen-golf-e-golf-dublin-fpa-5001655738401152932

That Merc doesn't have DC charging, which is pretty much the only requirement I have/want.

Always liked the Golfs. Don't know much about them regarding real world range, charging, reliability, etc.

peposhi wrote: »

Going for a 30kwh Leaf at that price would make a good sense if you are going from a 24kwh XE or SV towards an 30Kwh SVE with 6.6kw charger. It gives you a piece of mind that you are getting a car you know top to bottom, is reliable and suits the charging network in Ireland should you need some extra mileage. I did that and back in Jan and I must say it worked out quite well.

That's the reason that I'm still looking at the Leaf.
There's a lot to be said for familiarity, and with my Leaf currently hovering around the 75% capacity, a near 100% capacity 30kWh Tekna would be a substantial upgrade.
Then again, is it like leaving your wife and marrying her twin?!

peposhi wrote: »

My pick would be an i3 REX - gives you luxury look, gadgets and flexibility but less roomy and hard to find in that price bracket. Yet.

I've always liked the i3. They're (relatively) cheap in the UK. Trying to find one in a decent spec with DC charging is tough enough. I've had my eye on a few, but haven't been brave enough to pull the trigger on the off chance my ideal one is around the corner.

That said, I've found my ideal Leaf....

Shefwedfan · 30-11-2017 3:32pm

Soarer wrote: »

That Merc doesn't have DC charging, which is pretty much the only requirement I have/want.

Always liked the Golfs. Don't know much about them regarding real world range, charging, reliability, etc.

Real World range is circa 120km. At the moment I have heating going full blast all the time and I got 90km the other day.

If sunny you are up at 150km. Check out facebook for other eGolf owner. He is doing 6.72km/kWh so average of 162km per fill. Thats after 35k km.

I seem to have rather a heavy foot. :P

Charging is CCS, so same as Ioniq, I dont know much about it as I never use it and do all charging at home

Reliability, the only issue I have seen is some of the US 15 model have an issue with charge port not releasing. Haven't seen anyone in Europe post having a similar issue.

Its an option for that money and your low km requirement

thierry14 · 30-11-2017 3:35pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I will try to be unbiased

For 25k I would start at premium brands and see what you can get. BMW, Merc and VW of course:P

You will get a lot of car for that money.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201710049944157?fuel-type=Electric&sort=sponsored&make=MERCEDES-BENZ&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New&postcode=se19pz&advertising-location=at_cars&radius=1501&page=1

If you want something different, I wonder how many electric Merc's in Ireland?

eGolf does not really come with leather seats. I haven't seen one yet anyway. I am sure you could haggle a good deal on this one: https://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/volkswagen/golf/used-2015-151-volkswagen-golf-e-golf-dublin-fpa-5001655738401152932

That Mercedes is nice

Quick too with that 180bhp Tesla drive train

KCross · 30-11-2017 3:48pm

thierry14 wrote: »

That Mercedes is nice

Quick too with that 180bhp Tesla drive train

It would have been a very good EV but they hobbled it by not having DC charging.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

If you want something different, I wonder how many electric Merc's in Ireland?

According to beepbeep there are 2 electric Mercs in the country. The B250e was their main one and it had no DC charging, no dealer selling it here(I believe) which probably means they are not equipped to service it so I'd be wary of importing one without talking to your local dealer first.

zilog_jones · 30-11-2017 5:07pm

@Soarer: Didn't you only buy the Leaf earlier this year? Why do you want to change already?

Soarer · 30-11-2017 5:33pm

zilog_jones wrote: »

@Soarer: Didn't you only buy the Leaf earlier this year? Why do you want to change already?

Yeah, back in April.

The plan was to get into EV ownership as cheap as possible (€6k!) to see if it suited. If it did, which it does, phase 2 was to give the Leaf to the ol' man, he gives me his old Laguna, and I use that to get scrappage on something newer.

The thing is though, my yoke suits 90% of my driving. The odd time I have to take the Prius due to range.
So is there much point in dropping ~€20k to make up that 10%? Would I be as well off spending €12k and getting up to 95%. But then, if I'm going that far, I may as well go balls out and get something that'll suit near on 100%.

So I suppose to cover my range...
100% - i3 REx DC
99% - Ioniq
98% - 30kWh Leaf

But then running costs from high-low...
i3 REx DC
Ioniq/Leaf

Factoring availability from high-low...
Leaf
i3 REx DC
Ioniq

peposhi · 30-11-2017 7:44pm

Soarer wrote: »

Yeah, back in April.

The plan was to get into EV ownership as cheap as possible (€6k!) to see if it suited. If it did, which it does, phase 2 was to give the Leaf to the ol' man, he gives me his old Laguna, and I use that to get scrappage on something newer.

The thing is though, my yoke suits 90% of my driving. The odd time I have to take the Prius due to range.
So is there much point in dropping ~€20k to make up that 10%? Would I be as well off spending €12k and getting up to 95%. But then, if I'm going that far, I may as well go balls out and get something that'll suit near on 100%.

So I suppose to cover my range...
100% - i3 REx DC
99% - Ioniq
98% - 30kWh Leaf

But then running costs from high-low...
i3 REx DC
Ioniq/Leaf

Factoring availability from high-low...
Leaf
i3 REx DC
Ioniq

Best value for money on the second hand market:
Leaf

Shefwedfan · 30-11-2017 8:02pm

peposhi wrote: »

Best value for money on the second hand market:
Leaf

Not really sure that statement is 100% correct. Yes they are cheapest but they are also losing value at a rate of knots

VW and BMW seem to be holding it value

So far Ioniq is holding its value due to short supply.

Buy a Leaf now, no matter what spec/age the value of it will drop like a stone in 2-3 months when the new version comes in.....

I have said it numerous times, Nissan killed the second hand value of the Leaf....

30-11-2017 9:33pm

Soarer wrote: »

So I suppose to cover my range...
100% - i3 REx DC
99% - Ioniq
98% - 30kWh Leaf

This in Red says it all really, if the I3 Rex is on your mind and it will meet 100% of your needs then given the state of the public network at this time I would go for the I3, it really is a terrific car. Find one with good spec and make sure it's got fast charging.

The Public Network is going to get a worse before it gets better and we're already way behind and as more people buy EV it's going to get worse. Yes they will install more chargers, but, when and how many on the one site ?

What were you thinking on spending if you went "balls out" as you said ?

Orebro · 30-11-2017 10:30pm

Soarer wrote: »

Yeah, back in April.

The plan was to get into EV ownership as cheap as possible (€6k!) to see if it suited. If it did, which it does, phase 2 was to give the Leaf to the ol' man, he gives me his old Laguna, and I use that to get scrappage on something newer.

The thing is though, my yoke suits 90% of my driving. The odd time I have to take the Prius due to range.
So is there much point in dropping ~€20k to make up that 10%? Would I be as well off spending €12k and getting up to 95%. But then, if I'm going that far, I may as well go balls out and get something that'll suit near on 100%.

So I suppose to cover my range...
100% - i3 REx DC
99% - Ioniq
98% - 30kWh Leaf

But then running costs from high-low...
i3 REx DC
Ioniq/Leaf

Factoring availability from high-low...
Leaf
i3 REx DC
Ioniq

You have a rock solid reliable Leaf and you have a Prius in the house to pick up the 10% of the slack? You're mad to change car imho - keep your dosh and scratch that itch with something else.

goz83 · 30-11-2017 10:46pm

Orebro wrote: »

You have a rock solid reliable Leaf and you have a Prius in the house to pick up the 10% of the slack? You're mad to change car imho - keep your dosh and scratch that itch with something else.

I agree with this. Your current Leaf is doing the job. Buying now would be silly unless you want to throw money away. I only suggested the Tekna env200 because it has more kit than your Leaf and it’s a bit different. There are very few of them around too. You should wait another few months.

What to buy for €20-€25k?

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