What to buy for €20-€25k?

Soarer

Evening all.

Should be changing the Leaf in the next while. Willing to spend a decent amount to get a decently spec'd car that will last me a while.
Have no problem going to the UK for a car, and that probably where the value is.
So what would people recommend?
30kW Leaf?
Ioniq?
E-Golf?
Zoe?
Soul?
i3?
i3 REx?

I'm not interested in distance travelled @ 120km/h. I spend most of my day pottering around at under 80km/h, stop-start driving, school runs, etc.
I currently have a range of 70-80kms at those sort of speeds, so any of the above will obviously be a big step up.
I like gadgets/kit, so I'd gladly sacrifice range for toys.

So the floor is open lads.
Obviously I'd prefer unbiased owners views on the above. That probably excludes Unkel, Mad_Lad, and ShefWedFan!

cros13

Ioniq is pretty much out due to availability issues.

You'd get a 30kWh Tekna Leaf in pristine condition in any color you want but it wouldn't be as fun as some of the other options.

If you were willing to wait until summer the SV 40kWh Leaf would be an option.

Well specced 2015 i3s would be in that price range... avoiding the REx would mean the ability to upgrade the battery later if you wished. If you replaced the 20" alloys with 19s and ensure it has DC rapid charging this is a good 'un: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201711201405531

Zoe... you may not like the drop in usable space and power coming from a Leaf.

Soul - good EV and something a bit different - given they were never offered in Ireland, but not as good as the alternatives for the money.

E-Golf - Not many about. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201711081053518 is an option. i3 better for similar money.

The Mercedes B250e is another option in the price range provided you don't mind the lack of rapid charging - https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201709159330475

goz83

What about an env200 Tekna? So roomy

cros13

Yup, that's an option too - https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201710070054736

I didn't think BMW would offer a battery upgrade outside of Germany yet ?

I3 is a really fantastic car, Rex gives so much peace of mind given our current infrastructure and it's especially more valuable with the older battery which charges slower from the fast chargers compared to the 33 Kwh, though I've no personal experience with the 22 Kwh so can't confirm this directly just what I read on the net.

Anyway, I3 is small but roomy for it's size, coming from a Leaf as I have the I3 is a huge step up.

You'll find loads of older battery I3's especially in the U.K with a good spec.

If you can get the new Leaf on your budget then it's worth serious consideration + it's got a decent power increase and range of course + it's slightly larger and larger than I3 with larger boot.

Range of 40 Kwh not really known yet but at some point on a longer trip you'll need to recharge and that brings us back to the current state of the network and one reason I got the rex.

Orebro

Sounds like you’re not in a mad panic to change car, so I’d wait until the 2018 SV Leaf becomes available as mentioned above. Hopefully Nissan will include the Leaf in their scrappage scheme for 182 so your car would be worth a decent few quid on trade in too.

cros13

Deleted User wrote:

I didn't think BMW would offer a battery upgrade outside of Germany yet ?

Yes, just not offered in the UK or US and restricted to BEVs. BMW Ireland has offered pricing in the past but I'm not sure anyone has actually accepted. A lot of i3 battery upgrades have been done in the Netherlands.

I still think that if buying an I3 that the rex is the best option for now, sure it's not quiet as efficient as the BEV but the Rex offers a lot of advantages.

I'm not sure most people would pay for a battery upgrade ?

Soarer

Cheers for all the input lads.
Working through the replies....
@ cros: I actually emailed them about that i3. No DC. I might touch base with you via PM to check another one.
It's the 30kWh Teknas that I started looking at. Spending big money to go from a Leaf to a Leaf doesn't sit right with me somehow. There's obviously a big upgrade though.
Interesting that the i3 would be better than the e-Golf. Would they have similar range?
The Merc is nice, but don't think I'd do without the rapid.

@Mad_Lad: You're the reason I'm looking at the i3. Had discounted it because of the 2 back seats, but like you said in another thread, we can take the other car if we need 5 seats! Your issue with the charging speeds on AC has me confused/worried.
Also confused the way BMW use mah or something to rate their batteries.

@Orebro: Yeah, I'm in no mad rush. I just have an itch I want to scratch at the minute. Keeping the head for a few months would probably be the best option.

cros13

Soarer wrote: »

It's the 30kWh Teknas that I started looking at. Spending big
money to go from a Leaf to a Leaf doesn't sit right with me somehow.

Yeah, I'd agree.

Soarer wrote: »

Interesting that the i3 would be better than the e-Golf. Would they have similar range?

Pretty much, i3 would have the edge due to being more efficient though. Big differences are the i3 is a purpose built EV, has more power and better handling.

Soarer wrote: »

Also confused the way BMW use mah or something to rate their batteries.

That's BMW being deliberately obtuse to confuse people into thinking they have a competitive product with Tesla. They list the cell Ah instead of the pack capacity.

60Ah = 22kWh
94Ah = 34kWh
120Ah (next year) = 44kWh

ELM327

As a leaf driver: If I was spending 20-25k I'd be getting nothing other than an Ioniq tbh.
So far ahead of the current crop of EV. IMO still better than the new leaf aswell.

thierry14

Pretty much sums up the EV market this thread

25k is alot of money and bloody nothing out there

While in the ICE world a brand new diesel Golf is 25k

Still alot of work to do

cros13

thierry14 wrote: »

Pretty much sums up the EV market this thread

25k is alot of money and bloody nothing out there

While in the ICE world a brand new diesel Golf is 25k

Still alot of work to do

True, But in fairness... 2-3 years ago our only answer would have been asking whether Soarer wanted an old Leaf or a low specced new Leaf.

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

As a leaf driver: If I was spending 20-25k I'd be getting nothing other than an Ioniq tbh.
So far ahead of the current crop of EV. IMO still better than the new leaf aswell.

Not a new Leaf 40 kwh ? 150 hp ?

Not sure you'll find an Ioniq for 25 K if you can even find one, might be lucky to get a demo for 25K I suppose.

Soarer

Soarer wrote: »

I actually emailed them about that i3. No DC. I might touch base with you via PM to check another one.

Yes I forgot that some early I3's have no DC, need to be careful on that. Some XE newer Gen leafs also had no fast charge but think most in Ireland have but always better to check.

Soarer wrote: »

@Mad_Lad: You're the reason I'm looking at the i3. Had discounted it because of the 2 back seats, but like you said in another thread, we can take the other car if we need 5 seats! Your issue with the charging speeds on AC has me confused/worried.
Also confused the way BMW use mah or something to rate their batteries.

If you're not buying a 94AH I3 you don't need to worry about that as it will charge at 3.5 Kw on a 16 amp supply or 7 Kw on a 32 amp supply with the provided cable.

And I think now I'm pretty confident that the I3 94 Ah charges at 7 Kw max single phase and 11 Kw 3 phase, I just need a 3 phase cable for 11 Kw AC which will still allow 7Kw max on single phase.

unkel

You don't really mention any requirements (except that you don't drive fast)

What are you looking for in a car? There are plenty of EVs that you can buy within your budget, which is a good start!

Soarer wrote: »

I'd prefer unbiased owners views on the above. That probably excludes Unkel, Mad_Lad, and ShefWedFan!

Any owner of anything bought that particular thing for a reason, so they are always a bit biased about what they own. But honestly, I try to be as objective as I can about EVs! See my short review of the eGolf that I posted this morning

Soarer

Requirements?
I suppose DC charging is a requirement.
Other than that, no real "requirements", only "that'd be nice" things.
Gadgets/Toys.
Leather.
etc.

Shefwedfan

Soarer wrote: »

Requirements?
I suppose DC charging is a requirement.
Other than that, no real "requirements", only "that'd be nice" things.
Gadgets/Toys.
Leather.
etc.

I will try to be unbiased

For 25k I would start at premium brands and see what you can get. BMW, Merc and VW of course:P

You will get a lot of car for that money.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201710049944157?fuel-type=Electric&sort=sponsored&make=MERCEDES-BENZ&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New&postcode=se19pz&advertising-location=at_cars&radius=1501&page=1

If you want something different, I wonder how many electric Merc's in Ireland?

eGolf does not really come with leather seats. I haven't seen one yet anyway. I am sure you could haggle a good deal on this one: https://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/volkswagen/golf/used-2015-151-volkswagen-golf-e-golf-dublin-fpa-5001655738401152932

peposhi

Going for a 30kwh Leaf at that price would make a good sense if you are going from a 24kwh XE or SV towards an 30Kwh SVE with 6.6kw charger. It gives you a piece of mind that you are getting a car you know top to bottom, is reliable and suits the charging network in Ireland should you need some extra mileage. I did that and back in Jan and I must say it worked out quite well.

My pick would be an i3 REX - gives you luxury look, gadgets and flexibility but less roomy and hard to find in that price bracket. Yet.

IOniq - nope. Fantastic car. Limited by the CCS very poor rollout thoroughout the country. But then you said - range - not an issue, so what’s not good to me might suit perfectly your needs (roomy and pleasant to drive)

No eGolf experience so I will not upset ShefWedFan here

Shefwedfan

peposhi wrote: »

No eGolf experience so I will not upset ShefWedFan here

In the end guys it is a car and I change cars like the wind

Who is to say I am not looking for something new for 2018:eek::P

Soarer

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I will try to be unbiased

For 25k I would start at premium brands and see what you can get. BMW, Merc and VW of course:P

You will get a lot of car for that money.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201710049944157?fuel-type=Electric&sort=sponsored&make=MERCEDES-BENZ&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New&postcode=se19pz&advertising-location=at_cars&radius=1501&page=1

If you want something different, I wonder how many electric Merc's in Ireland?

eGolf does not really come with leather seats. I haven't seen one yet anyway. I am sure you could haggle a good deal on this one: https://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/volkswagen/golf/used-2015-151-volkswagen-golf-e-golf-dublin-fpa-5001655738401152932

That Merc doesn't have DC charging, which is pretty much the only requirement I have/want.

Always liked the Golfs. Don't know much about them regarding real world range, charging, reliability, etc.

peposhi wrote: »

Going for a 30kwh Leaf at that price would make a good sense if you are going from a 24kwh XE or SV towards an 30Kwh SVE with 6.6kw charger. It gives you a piece of mind that you are getting a car you know top to bottom, is reliable and suits the charging network in Ireland should you need some extra mileage. I did that and back in Jan and I must say it worked out quite well.

That's the reason that I'm still looking at the Leaf.
There's a lot to be said for familiarity, and with my Leaf currently hovering around the 75% capacity, a near 100% capacity 30kWh Tekna would be a substantial upgrade.
Then again, is it like leaving your wife and marrying her twin?!

peposhi wrote: »

My pick would be an i3 REX - gives you luxury look, gadgets and flexibility but less roomy and hard to find in that price bracket. Yet.

I've always liked the i3. They're (relatively) cheap in the UK. Trying to find one in a decent spec with DC charging is tough enough. I've had my eye on a few, but haven't been brave enough to pull the trigger on the off chance my ideal one is around the corner.

That said, I've found my ideal Leaf....

Shefwedfan

Soarer wrote: »

That Merc doesn't have DC charging, which is pretty much the only requirement I have/want.

Always liked the Golfs. Don't know much about them regarding real world range, charging, reliability, etc.

Real World range is circa 120km. At the moment I have heating going full blast all the time and I got 90km the other day.

If sunny you are up at 150km. Check out facebook for other eGolf owner. He is doing 6.72km/kWh so average of 162km per fill. Thats after 35k km.

I seem to have rather a heavy foot. :P

Charging is CCS, so same as Ioniq, I dont know much about it as I never use it and do all charging at home

Reliability, the only issue I have seen is some of the US 15 model have an issue with charge port not releasing. Haven't seen anyone in Europe post having a similar issue.

Its an option for that money and your low km requirement

thierry14

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I will try to be unbiased

For 25k I would start at premium brands and see what you can get. BMW, Merc and VW of course:P

You will get a lot of car for that money.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201710049944157?fuel-type=Electric&sort=sponsored&make=MERCEDES-BENZ&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New&postcode=se19pz&advertising-location=at_cars&radius=1501&page=1

If you want something different, I wonder how many electric Merc's in Ireland?

eGolf does not really come with leather seats. I haven't seen one yet anyway. I am sure you could haggle a good deal on this one: https://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/volkswagen/golf/used-2015-151-volkswagen-golf-e-golf-dublin-fpa-5001655738401152932

That Mercedes is nice

Quick too with that 180bhp Tesla drive train

KCross

thierry14 wrote: »

That Mercedes is nice

Quick too with that 180bhp Tesla drive train

It would have been a very good EV but they hobbled it by not having DC charging.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

If you want something different, I wonder how many electric Merc's in Ireland?

According to beepbeep there are 2 electric Mercs in the country. The B250e was their main one and it had no DC charging, no dealer selling it here(I believe) which probably means they are not equipped to service it so I'd be wary of importing one without talking to your local dealer first.

zilog_jones

@Soarer: Didn't you only buy the Leaf earlier this year? Why do you want to change already?

Soarer

zilog_jones wrote: »

@Soarer: Didn't you only buy the Leaf earlier this year? Why do you want to change already?

Yeah, back in April.

The plan was to get into EV ownership as cheap as possible (€6k!) to see if it suited. If it did, which it does, phase 2 was to give the Leaf to the ol' man, he gives me his old Laguna, and I use that to get scrappage on something newer.

The thing is though, my yoke suits 90% of my driving. The odd time I have to take the Prius due to range.
So is there much point in dropping ~€20k to make up that 10%? Would I be as well off spending €12k and getting up to 95%. But then, if I'm going that far, I may as well go balls out and get something that'll suit near on 100%.

So I suppose to cover my range...
100% - i3 REx DC
99% - Ioniq
98% - 30kWh Leaf

But then running costs from high-low...
i3 REx DC
Ioniq/Leaf

Factoring availability from high-low...
Leaf
i3 REx DC
Ioniq

peposhi

Soarer wrote: »

Yeah, back in April.

The plan was to get into EV ownership as cheap as possible (€6k!) to see if it suited. If it did, which it does, phase 2 was to give the Leaf to the ol' man, he gives me his old Laguna, and I use that to get scrappage on something newer.

The thing is though, my yoke suits 90% of my driving. The odd time I have to take the Prius due to range.
So is there much point in dropping ~€20k to make up that 10%? Would I be as well off spending €12k and getting up to 95%. But then, if I'm going that far, I may as well go balls out and get something that'll suit near on 100%.

So I suppose to cover my range...
100% - i3 REx DC
99% - Ioniq
98% - 30kWh Leaf

But then running costs from high-low...
i3 REx DC
Ioniq/Leaf

Factoring availability from high-low...
Leaf
i3 REx DC
Ioniq

Best value for money on the second hand market:
Leaf

Shefwedfan

peposhi wrote: »

Best value for money on the second hand market:
Leaf

Not really sure that statement is 100% correct. Yes they are cheapest but they are also losing value at a rate of knots

VW and BMW seem to be holding it value

So far Ioniq is holding its value due to short supply.

Buy a Leaf now, no matter what spec/age the value of it will drop like a stone in 2-3 months when the new version comes in.....

I have said it numerous times, Nissan killed the second hand value of the Leaf....

Soarer

Soarer wrote: »

So I suppose to cover my range...
100% - i3 REx DC
99% - Ioniq
98% - 30kWh Leaf

This in Red says it all really, if the I3 Rex is on your mind and it will meet 100% of your needs then given the state of the public network at this time I would go for the I3, it really is a terrific car. Find one with good spec and make sure it's got fast charging.

The Public Network is going to get a worse before it gets better and we're already way behind and as more people buy EV it's going to get worse. Yes they will install more chargers, but, when and how many on the one site ?

What were you thinking on spending if you went "balls out" as you said ?

Orebro

Soarer wrote: »

Yeah, back in April.

The plan was to get into EV ownership as cheap as possible (€6k!) to see if it suited. If it did, which it does, phase 2 was to give the Leaf to the ol' man, he gives me his old Laguna, and I use that to get scrappage on something newer.

The thing is though, my yoke suits 90% of my driving. The odd time I have to take the Prius due to range.
So is there much point in dropping ~€20k to make up that 10%? Would I be as well off spending €12k and getting up to 95%. But then, if I'm going that far, I may as well go balls out and get something that'll suit near on 100%.

So I suppose to cover my range...
100% - i3 REx DC
99% - Ioniq
98% - 30kWh Leaf

But then running costs from high-low...
i3 REx DC
Ioniq/Leaf

Factoring availability from high-low...
Leaf
i3 REx DC
Ioniq

You have a rock solid reliable Leaf and you have a Prius in the house to pick up the 10% of the slack? You're mad to change car imho - keep your dosh and scratch that itch with something else.

goz83

Orebro wrote: »

You have a rock solid reliable Leaf and you have a Prius in the house to pick up the 10% of the slack? You're mad to change car imho - keep your dosh and scratch that itch with something else.

I agree with this. Your current Leaf is doing the job. Buying now would be silly unless you want to throw money away. I only suggested the Tekna env200 because it has more kit than your Leaf and it’s a bit different. There are very few of them around too. You should wait another few months.

Shefwedfan

goz83 wrote: »

I agree with this. Your current Leaf is doing the job. Buying now would be silly unless you want to throw money away. I only suggested the Tekna env200 because it has more kit than your Leaf and it’s a bit different. There are very few of them around too. You should wait another few months.

Everything isn't about money!!! If you have the cash and you enjoy driving why not spend it on something you will enjoy?

You can't bring your money with you when your 6ft under. At least the little time you spend on this earth you might as well enjoy it.

I don't really understand people going on about saving a few euro to drive a car that will "do a job"

Enjoy life guys....it will be over very quickly.....

I know when I am sitting on a my death bed I won't be remembering the few euro I saved by driving around in a Leaf:p

ELM327

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Everything isn't about money!!! If you have the cash and you enjoy driving why not spend it on something you will enjoy?

You can't bring your money with you when your 6ft under. At least the little time you spend on this earth you might as well enjoy it.

I don't really understand people going on about saving a few euro to drive a car that will "do a job"

Enjoy life guys....it will be over very quickly.....

I know when I am sitting on a my death bed I won't be remembering the few euro I saved by driving around in a Leaf

Will you be remembering the few less quid you saved driving around in an egolf though?

Where X is the amount saved by leaf drivers, you will probably save (x*0.8) allowing for higher purchase cost.
So you're still driving a car to save money as opposed to a fun car, yet not saving as much! I'd prefer to save more if I have to bother to save anything at all.

thierry14

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Everything isn't about money!!! If you have the cash and you enjoy driving why not spend it on something you will enjoy?

You can't bring your money with you when your 6ft under. At least the little time you spend on this earth you might as well enjoy it.

I don't really understand people going on about saving a few euro to drive a car that will "do a job"

Enjoy life guys....it will be over very quickly.....

I know when I am sitting on a my death bed I won't be remembering the few euro I saved by driving around in a Leaf:p

Man I must drive an e-Golf

P100D eater that 136bhp e-Golf

What a machine

goz83

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Everything isn't about money!!! If you have the cash and you enjoy driving why not spend it on something you will enjoy?

You can't bring your money with you when your 6ft under. At least the little time you spend on this earth you might as well enjoy it.

I don't really understand people going on about saving a few euro to drive a car that will "do a job"

Enjoy life guys....it will be over very quickly.....

I know when I am sitting on a my death bed I won't be remembering the few euro I saved by driving around in a Leaf:p

Weren't you the one who threw a wobbly when the BIK didn't come to what you were expecting it would be? And then to make a statement like "Everything isn't about money!!!" Very rich....pun intended.

There's a very strong argument against buying right now when he could get much better value in a couple of months time. And Soarer has said he is happy with the Leaf and that there is no rush.

Shefwedfan

goz83 wrote: »

Weren't you the one who threw a wobbly when the BIK didn't come to what you were expecting it would be? And then to make a statement like "Everything isn't about money!!!" Very rich....pun intended.

There's a very strong argument against buying right now when he could get much better value in a couple of months time. And Soarer has said he is happy with the Leaf and that there is no rush.

The "wobbler" I threw was more about a poster than BIK.....

Also getting a brand new car just because I can would actually reinforce the point I was making......

Also not sure what your point is either?

Better value in a few months? BMW and eGolf current models are not been swapped anytime soon....also the Merc is not going to be changed

So if buying something premium it will make little difference in a few months, walking into a garage at the min with cash you are sure to be able to bargain them down.....

goz83

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The "wobbler" I threw was more about a poster than BIK.....

Also getting a brand new car just because I can would actually reinforce the point I was making......

Also not sure what your point is either?

Better value in a few months? BMW and eGolf current models are not been swapped anytime soon....also the Merc is not going to be changed

So if buying something premium it will make little difference in a few months, walking into a garage at the min with cash you are sure to be able to bargain them down.....

You got your hopes up with the BIK and it didn’t pan out the way you wanted it to and so the promise of “money” saved was not bankable in the long term. Or was that not about money?

More power to you for buying brand new cars. I do prefer that the biggest depreciation hit is not taken by me.

Look at the list of cars in the OP. Take a look at the first one listed. I’m thinking there will be better value in a few months. And it won’t be long before Nissan are doing scrappage offers on Leaf 2.....which will be a chunk of change.

There is no guarantee of bargaining at the moment. Most car sales men still have little to no interest in selling EV.

If it were not for new car buyers there's be no 2nd hand cars !

I didn't buy new this time though, compared to the cost of the I3 new I got a cracking bargain with the spec I have in the I3 and it's only 9 months old !

Fantastic car, really fun car. Definitely the best car I've owned so far.

Cros did tell me to budget for speeding fines and tyres, I'm beginning to think he was right !

celtic_oz

buy this .. its almost new ( less than 2000 miles )

https://www.cargiant.co.uk/car/nissan/leaf/GM65GSV

put a deposit on a tesla and wait.

Shefwedfan

ELM327 wrote: »

Will you be remembering the few less quid you saved driving around in an egolf though?

Where X is the amount saved by leaf drivers, you will probably save (x*0.8) allowing for higher purchase cost.
So you're still driving a car to save money as opposed to a fun car, yet not saving as much! I'd prefer to save more if I have to bother to save anything at all.

I have no problem with that, I am fully aware a Leaf driver saves more.....you seem to have a problem with it?

Shefwedfan

Actually pointless replying to people on here and ruining the OP thread

If it was me and I had the cash in my pocket now, I would go i3 REX......eGolf next and then Merc.......

Of course I haven't driven the i3 but reading about the REX I really like the idea.....also as it is BMW you would expect the drive to be good....based on Mad_lad comments if should be better than good :-)

Shefwedfan

Shefwedfan wrote: »

If I was the OP and I had the decision I would probably swing for the i3 REX...the eGolf a very close second but I am liking the idea of the REX the more I read about it :P

I3 , if you can live with the size is brilliant, finding one with decent spec might be difficult but there's always the U.K too.

Take one for a day or two test drive and you'll be hooked !

There's the "S" available to order now too not sure when dealers will have them for test drives , not sure it will be that much better power wise but it will have the optional Apple car Play. Might be worth a look if you can live without some kit. But I'd rather a higher spec Rex than BEV only unless you can get the S Rex.

goz83

[snip]

Mod note: Please refrain from back seat modding

My observation of the OP situation is that he has a few bob and had planned to get a better EV if the cheap EV worked out. It has worked out and he is delighted with the switch made. Now it's time to start looking for the upgrade. Leaf 30 was the first item on the list. He said he wants more toys/gadgets....which translates to me that he wants to sit into a car that just has a bit more. The Tekna has the leather and a few upgrades over his Gen1 Acenta. The env200 was a bit different (and not quite the twin of the leaf, but a bigger sister ). The 360 reversing cameras is my favourite upgrade in the SVE.

The OP also said range was not an issue, nor was the 0-100 capability, so that for me rules out the rex. The merc fails massively with no DC. The eGolf wouldn't be a bad choice although there would be very limited choice and imo, they are a bit over-priced....a view that others share.

The reason I suggested the OP wait a few months, is to get better value while continuing to make savings in his current EV. There will be a few UK models coming out of PCP deals and sterling isn't showing any signs of climbing in the near future. If he was driving an ICE, I would be all for switching today and my first choice would be an env200 30kWh. If buying new...it would be Leaf 40. If I had money to burn, I would get a CPO model S.

Turbohymac

Electric still miles behind diesels..just research their resale values after 5 years. New 25k. Yet 2012 leaf with only 30k miles only resell for 9 /11k. needs new battery pack after about 6 years at about half the then value of the car.. this would be similar to having to replace the engine and gearbox of a diesel. Which would never occur and after 6 years the resale on a decent tdi will still be much higher than equivalent electric.. also who actually would dream of buying second hand electric.. ??? Just go with 1 year old UK Octavia vrs for 25k on the road here. After vrt and all and enjoy a real car with decent range on a full tank of diesel and much higher resale value ..
Electric probably ok for mainland European city driving . But how about the roscoff to Geneva run in a day.. did it a few years back only in an old diesel fiat scudo but only needed food stop as 1200km to full tank diesel on the bulletproof 120 multijet. Great for people who simply got money to dispose of quickly but it's TIS for everyone else..

thierry14

Turbohymac wrote: »

Electric still miles behind diesels..just research their resale values after 5 years. New 25k. Yet 2012 leaf with only 30k miles only resell for 9 /11k. needs new battery pack after about 6 years at about half the then value of the car.. this would be similar to having to replace the engine and gearbox of a diesel. Which would never occur and after 6 years the resale on a decent tdi will still be much higher than equivalent electric.. also who actually would dream of buying second hand electric.. ??? Just go with 1 year old UK Octavia vrs for 25k on the road here. After vrt and all and enjoy a real car with decent range on a full tank of diesel and much higher resale value ..
Electric probably ok for mainland European city driving . But how about the roscoff to Geneva run in a day.. did it a few years back only in an old diesel fiat scudo but only needed food stop as 1200km to full tank diesel on the bulletproof 120 multijet. Great for people who simply got money to dispose of quickly but it's TIS for everyone else..

Guys here will probably slate you for what you have said here

Especially the new battery Leaf comment and it being a throwaway

I think you speak alot of truth

Its a poor market now with EV's

Mad_Lad for example spent 22k on a bloody Leaf over 3 years and handed the car back, left with nothing after 22k spent

If he went ICE you could a get a year or 2 old Lexus IS300 hybrid for that, 220bhp, big 2.5l engine

He saw some sense and bought an I3 with a petrol tank

Its Tesla or nothing for pure EV's right now imo

cros13

Turbohymac wrote: »

Electric still miles behind diesels..just research their resale values after 5 years. New 25k. Yet 2012 leaf with only 30k miles only resell for 9 /11k.

Uh... what difference in resale value? The Nissan Pulsar diesel sold new for the same as the Leaf and sees broadly similar resale values. In fact for upper trims and later years the Leaf is better.

There are however a number of factors to be aware of with make it a bit meaningless to base your comparison on the Leaf alone.

1. 2010-2013 Leaf values in particular are artificially depressed due to a design fault in the form of a highly temperature sensitive battery chemistry, pack design that placed cells on top of each other (heat rises up the pack) and the late addition of rapid charging to the design.

2. A ton of used Leafs came onto the market in the UK all at once over the last 2 years due to 2-3 year business leases ending in the UK (they had a 0% BIK incentive on EVs). This also impacts the Irish market due to the VRT credit allowing import from the UK of used leafs with 0% tax. Just look at the number of posters to this forum who've purchased UK imports. Even in the SIMI registration stats over a third of all Leaf's registered in Ireland are UK imports.

3. For 2013-2015 Leafs values have actually been appreciating over the last 6 months, not depreciating. As the ex-lease supply dries up in the UK and the 2nd hand market grows, prices are climbing.

Turbohymac wrote: »

needs new battery pack after about 6 years at about half the then value of the car..

By 6 years you mean 15 to 20 until 70% capacity. For all intents and purposes the battery will last the normal life of the car.

Turbohymac wrote: »

Just go with 1 year old UK Octavia vrs for 25k on the road here. After vrt and all and enjoy a real car with decent range on a full tank of diesel and much higher resale value ..

Your opinion of a real car obviously differs from mine.... EVs have better performance/handling/practicality etc. etc. and drastically lower running costs.

Remember, almost every poster to this forum has owned diesels and very few diesel drivers have lived with EVs... frankly it's hard to take their uninformed opinions seriously.

Turbohymac wrote: »

But how about the roscoff to Geneva run in a day.. did it a few years back only in an old diesel fiat scudo but only needed food stop as 1200km to full tank diesel on the bulletproof 120 multijet. Great for people who simply got money to dispose of quickly but it's TIS for everyone else..

Yes, I've done similar distances in a day in my current EV (on the way to Berlin from Dublin (2000km)). Having done the same distance in a Diesel the difference in journey time was 3 hours on to a 20 hour journey.

KCross

Turbohymac wrote: »

Electric still miles behind diesels..just research their resale values after 5 years. New 25k. Yet 2012 leaf with only 30k miles only resell for 9 /11k.

I won't reply to the rest of your post as it already been done but every new car you buy will depreciate close enough to 50% after 3yrs so I don't think your figures prove anything.

The Leaf might have marginally depreciated more but the savings in running costs far outweigh that.

In the last few years depreciation in this country is almost driven entirely by sterling, not anything to do with the actual value of the car and that goes for both ICE and EV.

In general your opinions of EV are no more than the usual myths.

For sure there are issues with owning an EV, just not the issues you have claimed.

I spent probably 16K or more when you include the savings, maintenance, motor tax, and fuel and including electricity costs which are harder to calculate due to all the free work charging and public charging.

The i3 Rex is a far different beast, it's a hell of a lot more fun than a Leaf and more than a lot of ICE cars and far better quality, so much fun and so cheap to run..... and I expect the rex to hold it's value better but even if it doesn't , you won't find another car so cheap to run that's so much fun.

Octavia ? don't make me laugh.......

peposhi

Turbohymac wrote: »

Electric still miles behind diesels..just research their resale values after 5 years. New 25k. Yet 2012 leaf with only 30k miles only resell for 9 /11k. needs new battery pack after about 6 years at about half the then value of the car.. this would be similar to having to replace the engine and gearbox of a diesel. Which would never occur and after 6 years the resale on a decent tdi will still be much higher than equivalent electric.. also who actually would dream of buying second hand electric.. ??? Just go with 1 year old UK Octavia vrs for 25k on the road here. After vrt and all and enjoy a real car with decent range on a full tank of diesel and much higher resale value ..
Electric probably ok for mainland European city driving . But how about the roscoff to Geneva run in a day.. did it a few years back only in an old diesel fiat scudo but only needed food stop as 1200km to full tank diesel on the bulletproof 120 multijet. Great for people who simply got money to dispose of quickly but it's TIS for everyone else..

I always wondered: Are people buying their cars while thinking - I’d sell it in 2-3 years time for such and such money...
Seriously?
You buy a car that suits your needs and fits the pocket. How much it’s going to cost in 2 months or in 2 years depends on so many variables that you can never be sure about it.
I bought a car a ‘04 car in 2012 for €5.3k. 3 years and 44k miles later I accepted a €5.5k offer on it. Same car, same spec in done deal was for sale for €2k back then... so resale value can be a bitch or a bunch of sweets.
I would not change my Leaf for any Octavia.
Even if you offer me 2 Octavias for 1 Leaf (unless I sell them right way to buy the 2018 Leaf)!
That shows how much I value an EV compared to an ICE.

I have driven many petrol and diesel cars and a diesel van for the last 19 years. Nothing can compare to the pleasure of driving an EV at the near zero maintenance costs that it comes with it.

Oh... speaking of IC engines - a lad I know changed twice the engine of his 151 Quashqai. Thanks god it’s all under warranty otherwise the resale value would have been a bitch LOL

unkel

Turbohymac wrote: »

Electric still miles behind diesels..just research their resale values after 5 years. New 25k.

I bought a new 5 seater EV at the start of the year for €25k on the road. My car is still worth near enough €25k

I could have bought a similar size (but lower spec) diesel or petrol car for the same money, but they would have depreciated at least €5k by now

Why don't you research resale values yourself first, before making false claims?

thierry14

unkel wrote: »

I bought a new 5 seater EV at the start of the year for €25k on the road. My car is still worth near enough €25k

I could have bought a similar size (but lower spec) diesel or petrol car for the same money, but they would have depreciated at least €5k by now

Why don't you research resale values yourself first, before making false claims?

Your one is just pure luck unkel over lack of supply

When 60kWh Ioniq/Hyundais come out, depreciation will be severe on your 200km 28kWh EV

You know that as well as anyone