Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

Hector Bellend · 31-08-2017 11:46am

Love the gargle

elperello · 31-08-2017 11:55am

Deleted User wrote: »

Pity the small shops associations lobby isnt as powerful as the VFI.

I heard their lobbyist debating with Frances Black yesterday.Senator Black was seriously supporting putting drink in cupboards in shops so that her grand daughter wouldn't see it when they went to the shop.

elperello · 31-08-2017 12:12pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Pity the small shops associations lobby isnt as powerful as the VFI.

I heard their lobbyist debating with Frances Black yesterday.Senator Black was seriously supporting putting drink in cupboards in shops so that her grand daughter wouldn't see it when they went to the shop.

TallGlass · 31-08-2017 12:16pm

elperello wrote: »

I heard their lobbyist debating with Frances Black yesterday.Senator Black was seriously supporting putting drink in cupboards in shops so that her grand daughter wouldn't see it when they went to the shop.

She won't have to worried, I seriously imagine in a few years you'll be lucky to see the inside of a shop. It will be all done online and delivered to your door. In fact if she is that worried about it see could just shop online and the GD won't see anything.

Leroy42 · 31-08-2017 12:21pm

OT, but is there any law stopping bottles to be sold via vending machine in a pub?

Geuze · 31-08-2017 12:55pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

So who gets the extra money on the drink if it ain't the Government via excise?

Excise stay the same.

The retail price is forced up.

So a bit more VAT, and the extra goes to the retailer / wholesaler / supplier.

pilly · 31-08-2017 12:56pm

Leroy42 wrote: »

OT, but is there any law stopping bottles to be sold via vending machine in a pub?

I'd imagine so since even cigarettes can't be sold through a vending machine anymore, you have to go to the barman for a token.

Are Am Eye · 31-08-2017 1:03pm

Leroy42 wrote: »

OT, but is there any law stopping bottles to be sold via vending machine in a pub?

You mean with one of those crane things. You pay a euro and one button pushes the crane forward and another button moves it left to right. Then the glass breaks if you win.

Leroy42 · 31-08-2017 2:20pm

No, like the vending machines for cans, or food. Refrigerated and easy enough to engineer to maintain the bottle and avoid gas etc.

Would negate the need for a barman, and thus reduce the costs. Bars could then concentrate on pulling pints/serving food rather than simply charging what is essentially a corkage fee on each bottle.

pilly · 31-08-2017 2:22pm

Leroy42 wrote: »

No, like the vending machines for cans, or food. Refrigerated and easy enough to engineer to maintain the bottle and avoid gas etc.

Would negate the need for a barman, and thus reduce the costs. Bars could then concentrate on pulling pints/serving food rather than simply charging what is essentially a corkage fee on each bottle.

I think the last poster was joking. :eek:

But seriously, no, it wouldn't be allowed because there's no identification of the person buying the alcohol.

osarusan · 31-08-2017 2:37pm

Just to compare with the vending machine idea, in Japan there are deals called 'nomihodai', which means you pay a set fee and drink whatever you want for a set time (usually 60, 90, or 120 minutes). I was once at a place where they had a self-service beer dispenser there, you just walked up and poured it for yourself.

Anything stronger though, and you had to order from staff.

scamalert · 31-08-2017 2:55pm

osarusan wrote: »

Just to compare with the vending machine idea, in Japan there are deals called 'nomihodai', which means you pay a set fee and drink whatever you want for a set time (usually 60, 90, or 120 minutes). I was once at a place where they had a self-service beer dispenser there, you just walked up and poured it for yourself.

Anything stronger though, and you had to order from staff.

apparently they dont have laws in japan progibiting drinking in public also sake or other booze can be bought straight out of vending machines, well according to documentary i watched might be outdated now.

that said dont see massive issue with alcohol pricing - not much of a drinker, and given pubs charge already 5e or so for a pint, or 100 mill vodka and theres no shortage in customers.

if one is really into drinking that much look into home brewing costs like 10c per liter once you master the craft.

SEPT 23 1989 · 31-08-2017 3:08pm

elperello wrote: »

I heard their lobbyist debating with Frances Black yesterday.Senator Black was seriously supporting putting drink in cupboards in shops so that her grand daughter wouldn't see it when they went to the shop.

Poacher turned game keeper

osarusan · 31-08-2017 5:13pm

scamalert wrote: »

apparently they dont have laws in japan progibiting drinking in public also sake or other booze can be bought straight out of vending machines, well according to documentary i watched might be outdated now.

You can still buy it out of vending machines, but these days you need a special card that out have to apply for, that verifies that you are over 20. Same with cigarettes.

People drink all the time in public there, to the point of passing out, yet in all my time there I literally never saw a single fight between drunk Japanese people.

pilly · 31-08-2017 5:21pm

osarusan wrote: »

You can still buy it out of vending machines, but these days you need a special card that out have to apply for, that verifies that you are over 20. Same with cigarettes.

People drink all the time in public there, to the point of passing out, yet in all my time there I literally never saw a single fight between drunk Japanese people.

So they just pass out so that's okay?

osarusan · 31-08-2017 5:22pm

pilly wrote: »

So they just pass out so that's okay?

Where did I say it was ok?

pilly · 31-08-2017 5:23pm

osarusan wrote: »

Where did I say it was ok?

You didn't, just wondering if you thought it was.

hatrickpatrick · 31-08-2017 8:30pm

Xico on Baggot St has a beer vending machine, all cans obviously, don't think there's any special currency or token involved?

Reputable Rog · 31-08-2017 8:36pm

elperello wrote: »

I heard their lobbyist debating with Frances Black yesterday.Senator Black was seriously supporting putting drink in cupboards in shops so that her grand daughter wouldn't see it when they went to the shop.

I heard that idiot too,this country is overrun with pontificating c4's.
I was with my 3 year old buying wine this afternoon, he was not one bit interested, just wanted to leave the shop and go somewhere else.
Alcohol in supermarkets has no effect on children.

BuilderPlumber · 31-08-2017 8:54pm

Reputable Rog wrote: »

I heard that idiot too,this country is overrun with pontificating c4's.
I was with my 3 year old buying wine this afternoon, he was not one bit interested, just wanted to leave the shop and go somewhere else.
Alcohol in supermarkets has no effect on children.

This anti-alcohol brigade are scary and exaggerate everything. They are not even sincere. The same people who give out about alcohol be they politicians or bought and paid for doctors earn a small fortune and drink expensive wine by the bottle 3-4 nights a week.

Stuff like minimum pricing and having alcohol concealed is proposed and backed up with statements like alcohol addiction is rampant in Ireland. Then definitions of so-called 'binge drinking' being 3 or more standard drinks in one sitting clearly shows how OTT this brigade are. That would be my definition of light drinking not binge drinking. Going on a bender from 10 in the morning until 1 that night would be proper binge drinking, the type of drinking that only the elite media and politician types can afford!!

elperello · 31-08-2017 10:16pm

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

This anti-alcohol brigade are scary and exaggerate everything. They are not even sincere. The same people who give out about alcohol be they politicians or bought and paid for doctors earn a small fortune and drink expensive wine by the bottle 3-4 nights a week.

Stuff like minimum pricing and having alcohol concealed is proposed and backed up with statements like alcohol addiction is rampant in Ireland. Then definitions of so-called 'binge drinking' being 3 or more standard drinks in one sitting clearly shows how OTT this brigade are. That would be my definition of light drinking not binge drinking. Going on a bender from 10 in the morning until 1 that night would be proper binge drinking, the type of drinking that only the elite media and politician types can afford!!

They smell blood now. They have the stupid politicians dancing to their tune and it looks like they will get their way.

Fr Tod Umptious · 31-08-2017 10:30pm

I'm no member of the "anti-alcohol" brigade or anything, I like a few drinks and enjoy going to the pub (and will enjoy it more once the kids grow up and leave).
But I can see the logic behind the idea of concealing alcohol etc as a means of reducing consumption.

The evidence is there with smoking.
When I were a lad back in the mid 80s cigarette visibility was everywhere.
Full page ads in the Sunday Independent, the back cover of the RTE Guide (a huge circulation magazine at the time)
On shop fronts.
In shops behind the counter at eye level.
Sponsoring everything from the Irish Open golf to the Football and Hurling All Stars.

And as a 15 year old from a non smoking family I was full of confidence going into the shop and asking for "10 Benson" when I decided to try smoking.
I knew what they were called, I knew what they looked like and I knew what they cost.

But then things changed bit by bit, the print advertising stopped, the shop front advertising stopped, the sports sponsorship stopped, the in shop visibility stopped, prices went up year after year.

And smoking rates have gone down as a result.

If you asked a 15 year old from a non smoking family to go in and buy a pack of cigarettes now I doubt they would know where to start.

If a German tourist came into our local shop to buy cigarettes he or she would walk out again thinking they did not sell them.

I see kids from a local secondary school walk into town each day, none of them are smoking, in my day the majority would be.

The same could be done with drink if governments were really serious about tackling it from a health POV.

Stop the TV advertising, stop the print advertising, stop sports sponsorship, increase the price, concealed the product.

Personally it does not bother me what they do, we spend less than 1% of our monthly family income on drinking, and I already know what I like to drink and where I can get it.

But if my kids grow up in a world where drink is less prevalent and they are healthier as a result then I won't complain.

BuilderPlumber · 01-09-2017 5:22am

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I'm no member of the "anti-alcohol" brigade or anything, I like a few drinks and enjoy going to the pub (and will enjoy it more once the kids grow up and leave).
But I can see the logic behind the idea of concealing alcohol etc as a means of reducing consumption.

The evidence is there with smoking.
When I were a lad back in the mid 80s cigarette visibility was everywhere.
Full page ads in the Sunday Independent, the back cover of the RTE Guide (a huge circulation magazine at the time)
On shop fronts.
In shops behind the counter at eye level.
Sponsoring everything from the Irish Open golf to the Football and Hurling All Stars.

And as a 15 year old from a non smoking family I was full of confidence going into the shop and asking for "10 Benson" when I decided to try smoking.
I knew what they were called, I knew what they looked like and I knew what they cost.

But then things changed bit by bit, the print advertising stopped, the shop front advertising stopped, the sports sponsorship stopped, the in shop visibility stopped, prices went up year after year.

And smoking rates have gone down as a result.

If you asked a 15 year old from a non smoking family to go in and buy a pack of cigarettes now I doubt they would know where to start.

If a German tourist came into our local shop to buy cigarettes he or she would walk out again thinking they did not sell them.

I see kids from a local secondary school walk into town each day, none of them are smoking, in my day the majority would be.

The same could be done with drink if governments were really serious about tackling it from a health POV.

Stop the TV advertising, stop the print advertising, stop sports sponsorship, increase the price, concealed the product.

Personally it does not bother me what they do, we spend less than 1% of our monthly family income on drinking, and I already know what I like to drink and where I can get it.

But if my kids grow up in a world where drink is less prevalent and they are healthier as a result then I won't complain.

I think the bigger picture always needs to be taken into consideration. Events need all the sponsorship they can get. Events be they sports, music, comedy, whatever draw income and business to places and put places on the map. Guinness by and large have been good sponsors of many the event and many of these would not have become established only for them.

Banning alcohol (e.g Saudi Arabia), restricting alcohol for certain parts of a population (e.g Iran) or trying to demonise it (e.g. here) has only had detrimental effects and have actually cut off business for the country that blindly installed such poor legislation. Saudi Arabia continues to have an underground alcohol problem and in Iran, those allowed to drink alcohol legally drink way less than those who are banned under penal laws for doing so. Business from tourism and the like suffer in both these countries. Misinformed religious or health theory is behind a lot of this. If Middle Eastern countries implement penal laws that ban or restrict alcohol as part of a plan to get populations to turn against Islam (in Iran, Christians can perfectly legally drink alcohol and Muslims can't: pure penal laws to get people to hate their religion clearly, where is Daniel O'Connell when you need him) or if Ireland tries to market a false health thing to protect the vintners, it does not work and people can see through it.

Health is the primary reason for demonising drink here. True, excessive alcohol drinking is not good for one but the benefits of moderate drinking to relax and unwind are never mentioned by these negative brigade. Also the amount of workplace stress and bullying along with job insecurities which is forced on people as the 'norm' by statements like 'need to work under pressure' or 'there are no permanent jobs' is far more detrimental to one's health than having a few drinks somehow. So too is the need to borrow money and the worry about paying it back. Mortgages, car loans, etc. To live an ordinary life nearly requires the funds of a millionaire today. Suicide, homelessness, depression and other problems are more common in today's world. Drink was always there. We need to address the REAL issues.

As regards advertising: it NEVER has influenced me in a good way. I know what I want and don't want. In fact, advertising can have the opposite affect: that Orchard Thieves fox ad for example turns me off and I have never bought the cider for that reason!

BuilderPlumber · 01-09-2017 5:28am

elperello wrote: »

They smell blood now. They have the stupid politicians dancing to their tune and it looks like they will get their way.

The politicians should implement legislation that the people want. The majority of people and perhaps even one asked for this legislation.

suicide_circus · 01-09-2017 6:12am

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Poacher turned game keeper

I had too much craic now everyone else needs to suffer.

Reputable Rog · 01-09-2017 8:55am

I was in Portugal recently, beer was available everywhere, every restaraunt, small shop, McDonalds, even in a children's theme park. I saw no one drunk during the day at least, there were a few Tourists of multiple nationalities pissed late at night but that was about the height of it.
I was able to go to Supermarket and have a couple of glasses of wine with my lunch and I could buy drink at any time of the day.
Cigarettes were also widely available and on displsyvbut yet I could count on one hand how many people I saw smoking.
We are being regulated to death in this country.

Mr. teddywinkles · 01-09-2017 9:22am

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

I think the bigger picture always needs to be taken into consideration. Events need all the sponsorship they can get. Events be they sports, music, comedy, whatever draw income and business to places and put places on the map. Guinness by and large have been good sponsors of many the event and many of these would not have become established only for them.

Banning alcohol (e.g Saudi Arabia), restricting alcohol for certain parts of a population (e.g Iran) or trying to demonise it (e.g. here) has only had detrimental effects and have actually cut off business for the country that blindly installed such poor legislation. Saudi Arabia continues to have an underground alcohol problem and in Iran, those allowed to drink alcohol legally drink way less than those who are banned under penal laws for doing so. Business from tourism and the like suffer in both these countries. Misinformed religious or health theory is behind a lot of this. If Middle Eastern countries implement penal laws that ban or restrict alcohol as part of a plan to get populations to turn against Islam (in Iran, Christians can perfectly legally drink alcohol and Muslims can't: pure penal laws to get people to hate their religion clearly, where is Daniel O'Connell when you need him) or if Ireland tries to market a false health thing to protect the vintners, it does not work and people can see through it.

Health is the primary reason for demonising drink here. True, excessive alcohol drinking is not good for one but the benefits of moderate drinking to relax and unwind are never mentioned by these negative brigade. Also the amount of workplace stress and bullying along with job insecurities which is forced on people as the 'norm' by statements like 'need to work under pressure' or 'there are no permanent jobs' is far more detrimental to one's health than having a few drinks somehow. So too is the need to borrow money and the worry about paying it back. Mortgages, car loans, etc. To live an ordinary life nearly requires the funds of a millionaire today. Suicide, homelessness, depression and other problems are more common in today's world. Drink was always there. We need to address the REAL issues.

As regards advertising: it NEVER has influenced me in a good way. I know what I want and don't want. In fact, advertising can have the opposite affect: that Orchard Thieves fox ad for example turns me off and I have never bought the cider for that reason!

Always believed alcoholism was spurred on by other issues. And I think for the ordinary person in this country they seem to be increasing. If the idiots concentrated on these problems instead of trying to score political points which I don't think they will with this, they'd be better off

Leroy42 · 01-09-2017 11:06am

suicide_circus wrote: »

I had too much craic now everyone else needs to suffer.

Or another way to look at it is that someone who has direct experience of the negative effects that alcohol can have on so many people rather than those lucky enough to not need the help feeling no empathy for those that do.

Reputable Rog wrote: »

I was in Portugal recently, beer was available everywhere, every restaraunt, small shop, McDonalds, even in a children's theme park. I saw no one drunk during the day at least, there were a few Tourists of multiple nationalities pissed late at night but that was about the height of it.
I was able to go to Supermarket and have a couple of glasses of wine with my lunch and I could buy drink at any time of the day.
Cigarettes were also widely available and on displsyvbut yet I could count on one hand how many people I saw smoking.
We are being regulated to death in this country.

And what do you put this difference down to?

Leroy42 · 01-09-2017 11:07am

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

Always believed alcoholism was spurred on by other issues. And I think for the ordinary person in this country they seem to be increasing. If the idiots concentrated on these problems instead of trying to score political points which I don't think they will with this, they'd be better off

Its not guns that are the problem, its people!

Fr Tod Umptious · 01-09-2017 12:00pm

Reputable Rog wrote: »

I was in Portugal recently, beer was available everywhere, every restaraunt, small shop, McDonalds, even in a children's theme park. I saw no one drunk during the day at least, there were a few Tourists of multiple nationalities pissed late at night but that was about the height of it.
I was able to go to Supermarket and have a couple of glasses of wine with my lunch and I could buy drink at any time of the day.
Cigarettes were also widely available and on displsyvbut yet I could count on one hand how many people I saw smoking.
We are being regulated to death in this country.

The problem with advocating the European culture of drinking is that the statistics show that the Europeans are no healthier than us as a result.

For example in the report below Portugal does worse than Ireland when it comes to alcohol related deaths in the two of the three categories of cancer, liver cirrhosis and injury.

http://www.euro.who.int/__data/assets/pdf_file/0017/190430/Status-Report-on-Alcohol-and-Health-in-35-European-Countries.pdf

Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

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