85yo man investigated for a "non-crime hate incident"

Shield · 28-04-2021 4:24pm #1

Old guy in the winter years of his life send a cordial letter to an activist. Instead of engaging him in dialogue, she calls the cops and the letter gets recorded as a 'hate incident'. These "non-criime hate incidents" are such a drain on police resources. Nobody in the job thinks they're a good idea. Give me strength.

https://www.henleystandard.co.uk/news/sonning-common/159476/mans-anger-at-police-record-of-hate-crime.html

tdf7187 · 28-04-2021 4:28pm

Can't we have a generic 'I'm disgusted at this political correctness gorn mad in other countries' thread?

timmyntc · 28-04-2021 4:29pm

The UK police should be more concerned with stopping knife crime and grooming gangs than this crap

tdf7187 wrote:

Can't we have a generic 'I'm disgusted at this political correctness gorn mad in other countries' thread?

In fairness is this letter even anti-PC? There's "PC gone mad" and then theres this.

tdf7187 · 28-04-2021 4:30pm

Ah I see the OP is a serving cop.

Well, my suggestion is that some of these people making complaints over trivial issues should be charged with wasting police time. It is an actual offense, still on the statute books, though rarely used.

landofthetree · 28-04-2021 4:30pm

But we have a right-wing government.

MrMusician18 · 28-04-2021 4:31pm

Every report to police gets recorded on their computer system. This was probably what the cop felt was the best fit from a drop down list as waste of time isn't selectable.

joseywhales · 28-04-2021 4:33pm

What a well written letter. Perfectly balanced and he clearly articulates his point without hysteria except for the "disgracefully" adjective which might have been avoided. How is this defined as a hate incident?

lawred2 · 28-04-2021 4:33pm

Shield wrote: »

Old guy in the winter years of his life send a cordial letter to an activist. Instead of engaging him in dialogue, she calls the cops and the letter gets recorded as a 'hate incident'. These "non-criime hate incidents" are such a drain on police resources. Nobody in the job thinks they're a good idea. Give me strength.

https://www.henleystandard.co.uk/news/sonning-common/159476/mans-anger-at-police-record-of-hate-crime.html

strange letter to write

Gatling · 28-04-2021 4:33pm

It's like the chap in the UK who got phone call from a police force to check his thinking when it came to Sharing a tweet that apparently offended trans activist.

Coming to your nearest police force , the thought squad

riffmongous · 28-04-2021 4:34pm

It doesn't say she's an activist in your article.. which I guess is why the police have to keep a record. There's enough nutjobs out there who track down someone's home address to harass them.

If he wanted to reply he should have replied to the Newspaper

Overheal · 28-04-2021 4:34pm

Where is the alleged hate crime here? Should be a slam dunk appeals process for the accused.

One eyed Jack · 28-04-2021 4:35pm

Shield wrote: »

Old guy in the winter years of his life send a cordial letter to an activist.

Overheal · 28-04-2021 4:36pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Ah here he wrote a fairly cogent letter of disagreement arguing several reasoned points to the sensitive cloud

AdrianBalboa · 28-04-2021 4:36pm

All of this “vulnerable old man in the last years of his life” stuff is hogwash. He was spry enough to be able to find her address online after all.

He shouldn’t be writing letters to her home because of something she wrote into the newspaper about. It would be akin to somebody sending me a letter over a disagreement on boards.ie after parsing my identity from the scant details I have given about my own life: While it would not necessarily be threatening it would certainly be invasive and most unwelcome. He should have the book thrown at him to be honest.

NickNickleby · 28-04-2021 4:38pm

Its totally ridiculous that the letter should have ended up in a police report.
But...... what kind of clown writes an unsolicited, critical and personal letter to a complete stranger. A real life Victor Meldrew, I'd say. He should have sent to to the Times letters page as a response.

If I started receiving letters like that, in the first instance I'd be FIRMLY telling the person to take a hike.

lawred2 · 28-04-2021 4:38pm

Overheal wrote: »

Where is the alleged hate crime here? Should be a slam dunk appeals process for the accused.

why is he writing to her directly? unsolicited?

One eyed Jack · 28-04-2021 4:40pm

Overheal wrote: »

Ah here he wrote a fairly cogent letter of disagreement arguing several reasoned points to the sensitive cloud

And then searched for her home address online to send it to her…

alchemist33 · 28-04-2021 4:42pm

The headline of the article says hate crime. The article clearly says it isn't a crime. Even the English equivalents of the Ballyboggy Examiner are at the oul clickbait, it seems.

jimmycrackcorm · 28-04-2021 4:43pm

To be totally fair, the above letter should show the man's address, so we can all write to him to find out what he thinks of people sending him letters giving an opinion. I think I would find it disconcerting that someone went out of their way to find my address online and posted a letter to me. AFAIK newspaper leters don't publish the full address in their letters column so it shouldn't be taken as an invitation to get into personal correspondence.

alchemist33 · 28-04-2021 4:45pm

lawred2 wrote: »

why is he writing to her directly? unsolicited?

Writing a reply to the newspaper like normal (or whatever normal in the Writing to Newspaper community is) people isn't enough for some reason. He must have thought his opinion is so important that taking the chance she wouldn't see his reply in the paper, or even the newspaper not printing it, is unconscionable.

riffmongous · 28-04-2021 4:46pm

alchemist33 wrote: »

Writing a reply to the newspaper like normal (or whatever normal in the Writing to Newspaper community is) people isn't enough for some reason. He must have thought his opinion is so important that taking the chance she wouldn't see his reply in the paper, or even the newspaper not printing it, is unconscionable.

Yeah I wonder if she's the first person to get an unsolicited letter from him

Overheal · 28-04-2021 4:50pm

AdrianBalboa wrote: »

All of this “vulnerable old man in the last years of his life” stuff is hogwash. He was spry enough to be able to find her address online after all.

He shouldn’t be writing letters to her home because of something she wrote into the newspaper about. It would be akin to somebody sending me a letter over a disagreement on boards.ie after parsing my identity from the scant details I have given about my own life: While it would not necessarily be threatening it would certainly be invasive and most unwelcome. He should have the book thrown at him to be honest.

For writing a letter and looking up a mailing address?! That’s “massively invasive,” I think not. Forgive me but I grew up with the Yellow Pages. I’ve also grown up being advised that if you want to reach someone in a formal or polite matter that a personalized letter is a prime format for doing so, preferred by generations above a phone call, email, or text in that descending order. I hope you’re joking but it’s hard to tell when uptight people are accusing old men of hate crimes for letters of cordial disagreement.

Overheal · 28-04-2021 4:54pm

lawred2 wrote: »

why is he writing to her directly? unsolicited?

He wants to respond directly to her?

I think it’s fair to say her viewpoint solicited debate response by any member of the public when it was published wittingly in a journal of record.

If you knew JK Rowling’s home address and you wanted to send a letter do her do you go to the publisher of the Harry Potter series? I think not.

AdrianBalboa · 28-04-2021 4:57pm

Overheal wrote: »

For writing a letter and looking up a mailing address?! That’s “massively invasive,” I think not. Forgive me but I grew up with the Yellow Pages. I’ve also grown up being advised that if you want to reach someone in a formal or polite matter that a personalized letter is a prime format for doing so, preferred by generations above a phone call, email, or text in that descending order. I hope you’re joking but it’s hard to tell when uptight people re charging old men with hate crimes for letters of cordial disagreement.

The Golden Pages were for businesses.

It has never been au fait to send people replies to their homes in riposte over letters to the paper, not even back in your day, grandpa.

And all this “he’s an old man” rubbish doesn’t hold any water. If he’s savvy enough to find out where she lives online, he’s big enough to suffer the punishment for hassling her.

WrenBoy · 28-04-2021 4:57pm

I see these hate speech laws are quite the boon to society.

timmyntc · 28-04-2021 4:58pm

lawred2 wrote: »

why is he writing to her directly? unsolicited?

He wanted to respond to her, not the public perhaps?
Or he didnt trust that she would see his letter were it published in the paper.

Her contact information and address were obviously a matter of public record, if she didnt want to be contacted at her home she should not have this stuff listed. Its like having your phone number searchable in yellow pages - you can opt out if you dont want to be contacted there.

lawred2 · 28-04-2021 4:59pm

Overheal wrote: »

He wants to respond directly to her?

I think it’s fair to say her viewpoint solicited debate response by any member of the public when it was published wittingly in a journal of record.

If you knew JK Rowling’s home address and you wanted to send a letter do her do you go to the publisher of the Harry Potter series? I think not.

And?

If you knew JK Rowling’s home address and you wanted to send a letter

I still wouldn't

Since when does wanting to do something make that something an acceptable thing to do?

Overheal · 28-04-2021 5:01pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

And then searched for her home address online to send it to her…

Is that in and of itself, any way a crime in the UK or a jurisdiction familiar to you?

I have unsolicited mail sent to me quite often. Some of it clearly triggered by information obtained from privileged sources, like the department of motor vehicles, credit unions and the like. I have an expunged arrest from years back, but the moment it was on the books I had lawyers from all over my region mailing me their canned solicitations. I find this unnerving, but is it criminal, threatening behavior? Or is it only threatening if the person doing it doesn’t want to sell me anything or demand a phantom debt from me? I fail to see where the line is that it crosses into becoming a crime.

lawred2 · 28-04-2021 5:02pm

Overheal wrote: »

Is that in and of itself, any way a crime in the UK or a jurisdiction familiar to you?

I have unsolicited mail sent to me quite often. Some of it clearly triggered by information obtained from privileged sources, like the department of motor vehicles, credit unions and the like. I have an expunged arrest from years back, but the moment it was on the books I had lawyers from all over my region mailing me their canned solicitations. I find this unnerving, but is it criminal, threatening behavior? Or is it only threatening if the person doing it doesn’t want to sell me anything or demand a phantom debt from me?

that's entirely different

everyone gets junk mail

not remotely equivalent

RWCNT · 28-04-2021 5:03pm

alchemist33 wrote: »

Writing a reply to the newspaper like normal (or whatever normal in the Writing to Newspaper community is) people isn't enough for some reason. He must have thought his opinion is so important that taking the chance she wouldn't see his reply in the paper, or even the newspaper not printing it, is unconscionable.

This got a massive belly laugh out of me for some reason

timmyntc · 28-04-2021 5:04pm

Fan mail to musicians and actors is something thats happened for decades.

In some cases its harrassment - dependent on content. But this letter is neither harrassment or hate crime. Its just a man who cordially disagrees with someone.

85yo man investigated for a "non-crime hate incident"

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