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M4 - Maynooth to Leixlip [planning and design underway]

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  • 08-03-2019 10:22pm
    #1
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,356 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    Consultants to be appointed by May 2019 to progress the M4 between Maynooth and Leixlip through Phases 1-4 of TII's Project Management Guidelines

    Project will include 10km of upgrade and capacity issues at the Maynooth junction (J7) will also be investigated

    https://www.kildarestreet.com/debates/?id=2019-03-07a.314

    Preliminary costed at €100m.


«1345678

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    #2
    roadmaster
    Registered Users Posts: 3,636 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    marno21 wrote: »
    Consultants to be appointed by May 2019 to progress the M4 between Maynooth and Leixlip through Phases 1-4 of TII's Project Management Guidelines

    Project will include 10km of upgrade and capacity issues at the Maynooth junction (J7) will also be investigated

    https://www.kildarestreet.com/debates/?id=2019-03-07a.314

    Preliminary costed at €100m.

    That seams a little high in price i wonder is it because of the bridge widening on the liffey


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    #3
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    roadmaster wrote: »
    That seams a little high in price i wonder is it because of the bridge widening on the liffey
    I'm guessing it's 130 meters long. Could they just eliminate the hard shoulder on it?

    The Maynooth off-ramp will hopefully be changed. That roundabout should either be eliminated, or the road should straighten, and have lights at the top.


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    #4
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,553 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    How long before this mere 10 kms gets to construction if consultants appointed in May?


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    #5
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,356 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    How long before this mere 10 kms gets to construction if consultants appointed in May?
    It won't go to construction in the next few years at least.

    It seems that with this and the other 22 schemes that are at this stage, they will all be advanced through planning and will have to fight it out for what's left in the pot after the €5.7bn + M20 funding that's allocated until 2027 and will be spent firstly on the 23 schemes that are further on in the planning process. Obviously, this is the current status and won't apply if the current ruling junta are ousted in the meantime.


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    #6
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,891 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    They have withheld resurfacing for nearly a decade due to this plan - everyone within a km of the motorway should welcome this as modern surfacing is ridiculously quiet compare to 1994 surfacing

    Kilcock to Maynooth will still need resurfacing


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    #7
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,553 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    If they are going to spend 100 million on 10km then they may as well do the whole thing to Kilcock which is needed. Not doing it now will only cost more down the road.

    Yet another example of "what's the minimum we can get away with?".

    I suspect the Maynooth junction will hardly be touched as well despite being over capacity.


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    #8
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,891 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    While I believe it should be done to the M6 gore - any increase in costs will only be inline with construction inflation - your hyperbole adds nothing. The land is already bought here, at construction time.

    Doing it in sections costs very, very little more


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    #9
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,356 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    A feasibility study was conducted on M50-Kilcock for upgrades & widening. This seems to have been deemed viable from it.


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    #10
    BaronVon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,647 ✭✭✭BaronVon


    I'd agree it needs to be widened as far as Kilcock. Traffic completely slows down when there's any kind of volume. The traffic exiting and entering at Kilcock to avoid the toll is a lane by itself.


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    #11
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,553 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    infacteh wrote: »
    I'd agree it needs to be widened as far as Kilcock. Traffic completely slows down when there's any kind of volume. The traffic exiting and entering at Kilcock to avoid the toll is a lane by itself.

    Well, for some reason only half is getting done which is Ireland all over really isn't it?

    Don't do it properly, do it half-assed.

    An approach endorsed by our binary number moderator when it should rightly be criticised.


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    #12
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,356 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    Well, for some reason only half is getting done which is Ireland all over really isn't it?

    Don't do it properly, do it half-assed.

    An approach endorsed by our binary number moderator when it should rightly be criticised.

    I also think that given the proposed implementation period that it makes sense now to plan for Leixlip-Kilcock.

    However, this upgrade is not for capacity, it's to improve safety on the Maynooth-Leixlip section which is seeing regular crashes due to it being severely overcapacity, so TII are clearly going for Maynooth-Leixlip being over a certain threshold for safety reasons.

    There is also a debate on the merit of 3 laning the M4 vs a dual carraigeway project somewhere else in Ireland. There is a limited funding pot available that TII have to work with. I am not agreeing with this funding limitation but it's not deniable either and it's a constraint that has to be accepted (for now)


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    #13
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users Posts: 8,419 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    the_syco wrote:
    The Maynooth off-ramp will hopefully be changed. That roundabout should either be eliminated, or the road should straighten, and have lights at the top.


    Isn't there talk of that junction being moved further out so that all the university traffic doesn't have to go through the village?


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    #14
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,356 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    tnegun wrote: »
    Off topic but anyone know why the lights on the slips at junctions 5,6 and 7 have been switched off for the last 6 months or more? The junctions themselves are lit just the slips to and from the M4 are permanently off.
    Turning off the lights to raise a few bob to pay the consultants fees for this project.


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    #15
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,891 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    Well, for some reason only half is getting done which is Ireland all over really isn't it?

    Don't do it properly, do it half-assed.

    An approach endorsed by our binary number moderator when it should rightly be criticised.

    Leixlip-Kilcock in one go would have a price tag that would ensure it was pushed down the list and we'd be waiting years for it to happen at all

    Leixlip-Maynooth and then Maynooth-Kilcock with their lower price tags will get done quicker. There will be a cost increase almost entirely attributable to construction price inflation which in normal circumstances is close to actual inflation.

    Same applied with the M1 widening - it was done J2 to J3 in one project and J3 to J4 in another - the very next year IIRC.

    You need a bit more awareness of how budgeting works.


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    #16
    Redsoxfan
    Registered Users Posts: 5,262 ✭✭✭Redsoxfan


    wirelessdude01 wrote:
    Isn't there talk of that junction being moved further out so that all the university traffic doesn't have to go through the village?


    While the current junction is a right balls, and there doesn't seem to be any room to improve significantly without relocation, anyone got any suggestions for how the relocated junction would be linked to Maynooth/Straffan?

    Have plans ever been drawn up or shared?


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    #17
    tnegun
    Registered Users Posts: 1,726 ✭✭✭tnegun


    I saw something with a junction for Maynooth further west I think it was part of the outer orbital route from Navan to Naas.


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    #18
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,891 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Junction on the Rathcoffey Road bridge, linked back by an arc of the ringroad built in the reservation between Straffan Wood and the motorway. No detailed design exists (in public anyway)


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    #19
    donspeekinglesh
    Registered Users Posts: 1,862 ✭✭✭donspeekinglesh


    It's very narrow with sharp turns between Straffan Wood and Straffan Road. I was really surprised when I saw how far down the Straffan Wood estate went.


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    #20
    tnegun
    Registered Users Posts: 1,726 ✭✭✭tnegun


    Thats exactly what I remember seeing maybe it was a mock up on here at some stage?


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    #21
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,891 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    donspeekinglesh wrote: »
    It's very narrow with sharp turns between Straffan Wood and Straffan Road. I was really surprised when I saw how far down the Straffan Wood estate went.

    The original ringroad plan was to use the Meadowbrook Link and then this reservation in Beaufield Estate but clearly that plan was dropped early on and would have required CPOing the houses between it and the Rathcoffey Road anyway. But the ringroad was also meant to come out directly opposite the Meadowbrook Link - you can see the reservation line, broken by the back of Lidl. However now it is to the South of Lidl, stub already built.

    The construction of Hayfield has made any tie in at the Straffan Road even tighter now.


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    #22
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    Isn't there talk of that junction being moved further out so that all the university traffic doesn't have to go through the village?
    Not sure. Newtown road could be widened, but you'll be going through estates, so can't see it happening. You could have it up Meadowbrook Road, but Parson Street rules it out, as you can't widen the street there.

    So can't see where it'd be pushed back to?
    tnegun wrote: »
    I saw something with a junction for Maynooth further west I think it was part of the outer orbital route from Navan to Naas.
    http://www.irishmotorwayinfo.com/inex/roads/m45/m45.html
    A lot further west. Heck, it's beyond Kilcock! Also, it'll be tolled.
    L1011 wrote: »
    The original ringroad plan was to use the Meadowbrook Link and then this reservation in Beaufield Estate but clearly that plan was dropped early on and would have required CPOing the houses between it and the Rathcoffey Road anyway. But the ringroad was also meant to come out directly opposite the Meadowbrook Link - you can see the reservation line, broken by the back of Lidl. However now it is to the South of Lidl, stub already built.

    The construction of Hayfield has made any tie in at the Straffan Road even tighter now.
    Through Maynooth University? Considering how much money it gets teh town, splitting it won't be done lightly. That'd get some pushback. Then there's the graveyard. Wiping out Newtown Inn could be a good thing, though :pac:

    Also, pushing it through an established estate? Can't see that happening.


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    #23
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,891 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    the_syco wrote: »
    Through Maynooth University? Considering how much money it gets teh town, splitting it won't be done lightly. That'd get some pushback. Then there's the graveyard. Wiping out Newtown Inn could be a good thing, though :pac:

    Also, pushing it through an established estate? Can't see that happening.

    It was only ever going to go to the Rathcoffey Road in the original plans. The plans for a full circle ring are from this decade. The original plans are from the mid 1980s!

    Estate wasn't established at the time and the shops weren't built etc etc; clearly got dropped early on but not that early that some of the reservation was required.

    And the Newtown Inn is up for sale with planning to knock it!


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    #24
    davidcostigan
    Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭davidcostigan


    Does anyone know if there’s been any progress on this


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    #25
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,356 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    davidcostigan wrote: »
    Does anyone know if there’s been any progress on this

    Should be an initial public consultation for the feasibility study/constraints study before the end of the year


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    #26
    eskerman
    Registered Users Posts: 133 ✭✭eskerman


    infacteh wrote: »
    I'd agree it needs to be widened as far as Kilcock. Traffic completely slows down when there's any kind of volume. The traffic exiting and entering at Kilcock to avoid the toll is a lane by itself.

    Remove the toll - and its a lot cheaper then €100million - that toll has screwed I the flow and also turned Enfield into a rat run


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    #27
    annfield1978
    Registered Users Posts: 564 ✭✭✭annfield1978


    marno21 wrote: »
    Should be an initial public consultation for the feasibility study/constraints study before the end of the year

    Dont think a consultant has been appointed yet, although tender documents are ready to go


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    #28
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,356 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    annfield1978 wrote: »
    Dont think a consultant has been appointed yet, although tender documents are ready to go
    Was mentioned in the Dail earlier in the year that consultants were to be appointed by May. Must never have been tendered in that case - thanks as always.


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    #29
    mydiscworld
    Registered Users Posts: 789 ✭✭✭mydiscworld


    eskerman wrote: »
    Remove the toll - and its a lot cheaper then €100million - that toll has screwed I the flow and also turned Enfield into a rat run

    I wonder how many years left in the toll contract?

    EDIT: contract signed 2003 for 30 years
    https://www.tii.ie/roads-tolling/projects-and-improvements/ppp/m4m6-kilcock-kinnegad/


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    #30
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,891 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    That toll gives TII a nice capacity payment (revenue sharing over a certain figure) and the state a very nice VAT income so don't expect them to do anything with it until 2033 and possibly retain it after too.


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    #31
    annfield1978
    Registered Users Posts: 564 ✭✭✭annfield1978


    This has now come out to tender for Phases 1 to 4


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