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Milk Price- Please read Mod note in post #1

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  • #8612
    whelan2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,789 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    jaymla627 wrote: »
    It must follow your milk supply, my limit was raised 15 thousand last month and I never asked for it, was just by looking at GLANBIA connect I seen it had been raised, would be sending in alot more milk then last year....
    The bigger guys could easily have limits approaching 100k
    Thats just asking for trouble in fairness. Its a bit like a credit card with a high limit, hard to clear and forever paying interest


  • #8613
    OverRide
    Closed Accounts Posts: 665 ✭✭✭OverRide


    whelan2 wrote: »
    Thats just asking for trouble in fairness. Its a bit like a credit card with a high limit, hard to clear and forever paying interest

    Their interest rate is near 24% whilst they borrow at Blue chip company rates of less than 1%

    Works out at a greater than a 10,000% margin even if they only collect half the interest and they do
    Agricultural Usary like that at home is actually way by far more lucrative to them than their American businesses with zero cost
    2 clicks on a pc swipes a lads milk cheque

    The Co op side of the business with the same board and ceo of course facilitate this usuary as much as possible

    wikipedia.org/wiki/Usury


  • #8614
    Dawggone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,506 ✭✭✭Dawggone


    jaymla627 wrote: »
    The other option of cutting off credit, taking whole milk cheques to clear trading accounts and effictively leaving alot of lads without a pot to piss would have a far more detrimental effect, milk supply would dry up, existing suppliers would stop trading with agri side due to heavy handed tactics like say above and once the plc hasn't got access to a endless supply of cheap milk, share price would take a nice little tumble....
    Long term looking at it I reckon talbot/Bergin are going to put lads in that much debt to glanbia that the only way out will be a huge spin - out of shares and they'll get their wish to wrestle back the small bit of say that farmers have in the plc side of business

    Jay, maybe budget money as well as grass...
    Ireland is the only Eu country I know that uses merchant credit in this way.

    How many would have your proverbial 'pot to pi$$ in' if you were on a strict 30day credit?
    This again skews the market...


  • #8615
    freedominacup
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,920 ✭✭✭freedominacup


    Dawggone wrote: »
    This again skews the market...

    only until the credit term expires after that money is collected every month anyway. It just means you have a huge bill running on credit limit and a thirty day credit limit.


  • #8616
    jaymla627
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,128 ✭✭✭jaymla627


    Dawggone wrote: »
    Jay, maybe budget money as well as grass...
    Ireland is the only Eu country I know that uses merchant credit in this way.

    How many would have your proverbial 'pot to pi$$ in' if you were on a strict 30day credit?
    This again skews the market...

    In fairness Irelands banking structure doesn't lend itself, as a better way of sourcing finance with their high intrest rates and fairly tetchy service record, compared to say mainland Europe....
    I'd love to be able to source finance to run my dairy operation through my bank thus allowing me get alot better deals on inputs etc but in my own circumstances where I own no land the max credit per year I'm currently working off amounts to a overdraft facility of 5000 euro on a 100 cow farm with borrowings per cow owed to them at less then 200 euro cow, in the absence of a banking service that has any intrest in a case like mine using merchant credit is simply the only was I can realistically farm


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  • #8617
    Timmaay
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭Timmaay


    http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-06-09/dairy-farmers-say-trump-s-deportations-could-dry-up-milk-supply

    1st ever time I've looked at this chap in a positive light ha.


  • #8618
    Dawggone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,506 ✭✭✭Dawggone


    jaymla627 wrote: »
    In fairness Irelands banking structure doesn't lend itself, as a better way of sourcing finance with their high intrest rates and fairly tetchy service record, compared to say mainland Europe....
    I'd love to be able to source finance to run my dairy operation through my bank thus allowing me get alot better deals on inputs etc but in my own circumstances where I own no land the max credit per year I'm currently working off amounts to a overdraft facility of 5000 euro on a 100 cow farm with borrowings per cow owed to them at less then 200 euro cow, in the absence of a banking service that has any intrest in a case like mine using merchant credit is simply the only was I can realistically farm

    €5k should be more than enough with a herd of cows...
    I'm running the lot here on €30k overdraft facility.
    Banks should be looking at your ebidta not your land or road frontage!

    Merchants have got you by the hasp when you can't pay in 30days. Interest is a massive income stream for them...but I suppose most of you don't pay interest, and if you are...you shouldn't!!


  • #8619
    Milked out
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,433 ✭✭✭Milked out


    I'd say once you keep a someway reasonable working relationship with them most of the interest gets knocked off


  • #8620
    kevthegaff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,084 ✭✭✭kevthegaff


    Milked out wrote:
    I'd say once you keep a someway reasonable working relationship with them most of the interest gets knocked off


    Never paid interest here


  • #8621
    alps
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,284 ✭✭✭alps


    Dawggone wrote: »
    €5k should be more than enough with a herd of cows...
    I'm running the lot here on €30k overdraft facility.
    Banks should be looking at your ebidta not your land or road frontage!

    Merchants have got you by the hasp when you can't pay in 30days. Interest is a massive income stream for them...but I suppose most of you don't pay interest, and if you are...you shouldn't!!

    In our seasonal production system, I would suggest that a limit equal to your 2 peak months is required to give you the flexibility of bulk purchase and entice suppliers to price accordingly when they know they will be paid on time.

    The interest charged by suppliers I feel is quiet insignificant to the margin charged to farmers who can't shop around.

    Paying consistently and on time is worth a fortune.


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  • #8622
    Dawggone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,506 ✭✭✭Dawggone


    Timmaay wrote: »
    http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-06-09/dairy-farmers-say-trump-s-deportations-could-dry-up-milk-supply

    1st ever time I've looked at this chap in a positive light ha.

    I stopped reading when he forecasted a 90% increase in dairy retail prices.


  • #8623
    whelan2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,789 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    jaymla627 wrote: »
    It must follow your milk supply, my limit was raised 15 thousand last month and I never asked for it, was just by looking at GLANBIA connect I seen it had been raised, would be sending in alot more milk then last year....
    The bigger guys could easily have limits approaching 100k
    Just got my trading statement in the post and mine also increased by 15k, its now over 50k credit limit :eek:


  • #8624
    Dawggone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,506 ✭✭✭Dawggone


    alps wrote: »

    Paying consistently and on time is worth a fortune.

    Not being smart, but isn't that called 'good business'?

    I wouldn't bother where the next blade of grass comes from, but I wouldn't sleep if I couldn't pay the bills in 30days.


  • #8625
    Water John
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,399 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Dairygold have a compound interest of 1% per month. DG don't do rebait of any interest, except may be to the select few. Not a cent off to most.
    Best paying number they have.


  • #8626
    mahoney_j
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,718 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    Milked out wrote: »
    I'd say once you keep a someway reasonable working relationship with them most of the interest gets knocked off

    +1 in my experience anyway


  • #8627
    alps
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,284 ✭✭✭alps


    Dawggone wrote: »
    Not being smart, but isn't that called 'good business'?

    I wouldn't bother where the next blade of grass comes from, but I wouldn't sleep if I couldn't pay the bills in 30days.

    In other jurisdictions yes....

    But the opportunity does exist in Ireland to significantly reduce input prices by paying on time. ....strange as that may be..

    And really good business when the sh## hits the fan like now, to have no overhanging bills...


  • #8628
    Dawggone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,506 ✭✭✭Dawggone


    Water John wrote: »
    Dairygold have a compound interest of 1% per month. DG don't do rebait of any interest, except may be to the select few. Not a cent off to most.
    Best paying number they have.

    I did plenty of business with DG and never paid interest. Ever.

    Their margin is built into the price.
    Example. 35%AN is €188/ton here now, what are you being charged for 27.5%CAN?


  • #8629
    Waffletraktor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,445 ✭✭✭Waffletraktor


    Dawggone wrote: »
    I did plenty of business with DG and never paid interest. Ever.

    Their margin is built into the price.
    Example. 35%AN is €188/ton here now, what are you being charged for 27.5%CAN?

    £150 ish depending on where haulage is to, quality urea 180 and down for crap.


  • #8630
    Dawggone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,506 ✭✭✭Dawggone


    Waffletraktor wrote: »
    £150 ish depending on where haulage is to, quality urea 180 and down for crap.

    Your AN is much the same price as here. I haven't priced Urea for months.
    Be interested to see what prices Irish merchants are charging for CAN...it should be ~ €150 at our AN prices...


  • #8631
    Waffletraktor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,445 ✭✭✭Waffletraktor


    Dawggone wrote: »
    Your AN is much the same price as here. I haven't priced Urea for months.
    Be interested to see what prices Irish merchants are charging for CAN...it should be ~ €150 at our AN prices...

    But because some idiots decided to make bombs its off the table for solid an and i have only seen can quoted here never used, maybe in liquid it can be used? Isnt can only a tiny market so will be pricie regardless


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  • #8632
    alps
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,284 ✭✭✭alps


    Reckon around 275 for Can and 336 for urea but falling...long way to go by the look of your prices.

    Waffle...are you quoting UK prices? If so how far west do uou think that's achievable.?


  • #8633
    Dawggone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,506 ✭✭✭Dawggone


    Waffletraktor wrote: »
    But because some idiots decided to make bombs its off the table for solid an and i have only seen can quoted here never used, maybe in liquid it can be used? Isnt can only a tiny market so will be pricie regardless

    Quite a large market for CAN in Scandanavia and N Germany but I don't know why.
    It's been a long time since the RAaaaa where using it for pyrotechnics!! Should be time to get AN back on the market.


  • #8634
    Waffletraktor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,445 ✭✭✭Waffletraktor


    alps wrote: »
    Reckon around 275 for Can and 336 for urea but falling...long way to go by the look of your prices.

    Waffle...are you quoting UK prices? If so how far west do uou think that's achievable.?

    Depends how much you need to pay the port to land a boat beside Target/Gouldings etc etc... Though with likes of Yara setting up might change things a little, never have an issue with them for An/s stuff but we buy crappy urea as wouldnt dream of spreading that to wide widths.
    Fert arrives in bulk now on backloads from farms stores to port so saves a little there, needs to be last load though to give time to wash out.


  • #8635
    Milked out
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,433 ✭✭✭Milked out


    Water John wrote: »
    Dairygold have a compound interest of 1% per month. DG don't do rebait of any interest, except may be to the select few. Not a cent off to most.
    Best paying number they have.
    As I said above once you have a reasonable working relationship they do.


  • #8636
    RightTurnClyde
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,143 ✭✭✭RightTurnClyde


    Dawggone wrote: »
    Your AN is much the same price as here. I haven't priced Urea for months.
    Be interested to see what prices Irish merchants are charging for CAN...it should be ~ €150 at our AN prices...

    Buying CAN+S at the moment for €250 COD so CAN is probably €245


  • #8637
    Timmaay
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭Timmaay


    Dawggone wrote: »
    Your AN is much the same price as here. I haven't priced Urea for months.
    Be interested to see what prices Irish merchants are charging for CAN...it should be ~ €150 at our AN prices...

    Between dairynuts and fert the average Irish dairyfarmer must be paying at least 2 or 3c/l more than in France?


  • #8638
    Dawggone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,506 ✭✭✭Dawggone


    RightTurnClyde wrote: »
    Buying CAN+S at the moment for €250 COD so CAN is probably €245

    I never swallowed the line from the merchants, 'I've only got the transport out of it'. Transport pays well...:)


  • #8639
    Dawggone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,506 ✭✭✭Dawggone


    Timmaay wrote: »
    Between dairynuts and fert the average Irish dairyfarmer must be paying at least 2 or 3c/l more than in France?

    No such thing as dairy nuts here Tim. I think it's a kinda Irish thing...parlor feeders can be convenient but expensive.


  • #8640
    Water John
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,399 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Its good to know that Dairygold like you. They then can dispense their largesse at their whim. Sadly, some of us have never felt the love.


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  • #8641
    RightTurnClyde
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,143 ✭✭✭RightTurnClyde


    Dawggone wrote: »
    No such thing as dairy nuts here Tim. I think it's a kinda Irish thing...parlor feeders can be convenient but expensive.

    True, but they do fit in well with the Irish grass cheapy cheapy outdoor system. They involve zero labour, no pits, no waste, no machinery, no diesel, they can be turned on off up or down depending on weather and grass. And you've no money tied up under plastic.And there's the option to target feed to individual cows easily.


This discussion has been closed.
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