The death of Harambe the gorilla

03-06-2016 07:42PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Amazing the 2 of ye are such experts on the enclosure, have either of you even been to the zoo in question?

Amazing you're an expert on the parents neglectfulness, since you weren't there.

We know the zoo was neglectful because a small boy got into the gorilla enclosure. You're aware that's not supposed to happen, right?

We don't know if the parents were neglectful.

You want to blame the parents anyway.

Sure, that's reasonable.

Galwayguy35 · 03-06-2016 07:45PM

Candie wrote: »

Amazing you're an expert on the parents neglectfulness, since you weren't there.

We know the zoo was neglectful because a small boy got into the gorilla enclosure. You're aware that's not supposed to happen, right?

We don't know if the parents were neglectful.

You want to blame the parents anyway.

Sure, that's reasonable.

It would take a 3 year old more than a few seconds to get into the enclosure even if it wasn't as good as it should be, bottom line is the parents are responsible for their kid and they took their eye off the ball.

03-06-2016 07:48PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

It would take a 3 year old more than a few seconds to get into the enclosure even if it wasn't as good as it should be, bottom line is the parents are responsible for their kid and they took their eye off the ball.

And the zoo has no duty of care to make sure the visitors are safe? Sure it doesn't.

A zoo that can have the enclosure security breached by a pre-schooler and it's the parents fault?

You weren't there examining the parents behaviour but you're still determined to blame the mother, so have at it.

Lackey · 03-06-2016 08:02PM

Here it is do you honestly think it would take more than a few seconds for a four year old to climb that and fall down into the animals?

Manic Moran · 03-06-2016 08:04PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

It would take a 3 year old more than a few seconds to get into the enclosure even if it wasn't as good as it should be, bottom line is the parents are responsible for their kid and they took their eye off the ball.

Do you actually have a young kid? I speak from experience, it is all but impossible to maintain a 100% watch on a child, and they will surprise you with what they do even when you are watching them.

Canis Lupus · 03-06-2016 08:28PM

RebelButtMunch wrote: »

Interesting philosophical questions. No doubt I agree with you. But what if it was 100 gorillas. 1000? All of them?

Are we still talking about one enclosure? Just trying to decide if we'll need a bigger gun or not.

Chain Smoker · 03-06-2016 08:46PM

Lackey wrote: »

Here it is do you honestly think it would take more than a few seconds for a four year old to climb that and fall down into the animals?

Cheers! Been wanting someone to link me direct to a photo like that for days (but seemingly not bothered enough to seek one out).

Beyond ridiculous of the zoo to not have more in place than that. Sure smaller kids could fit between the wires without even having a notion that there's **** all behind those hedges.

I like zoos for the most part, I'm sure they do some kind of good too; I don't know though, I haven't checked into it.
Purebred dogs are seemingly the only thing that I get all animal rights angry about.

03-06-2016 08:49PM

Manic Moran wrote: »

Do you actually have a young kid? I speak from experience, it is all but impossible to maintain a 100% watch on a child, and they will surprise you with what they do even when you are watching them.

You don't even have to be a parent, just reasonably observant.

I've twin nephews of six. They're little tornadoes, and they should be able to run around a zoo safely without falling into a gorilla enclosure because they climb up to have a look.

You'd wonder why some posters are so keen to blame the mother.

iguana · 03-06-2016 08:56PM

Candie wrote: »

Have you ever met a little boy? They're everywhere and into everything, and that's one of the best things about them.

An enclosure that doesn't enclose is not fit for purpose, and the zoo is much more responsible than the parents, whose kid was just doing what kids do.

I was with a toddler group at Fota yesterday. On the train down nearly every parent wrote their mobile number on their child's arm. We did the same thing last year. Why? Because small children dash off, they hide because they think it's funny, they accidentally follow the wrong group of people. Because they are people in their own right and have wants and desires that may not suit their parents in that moment and they learn quickly to take advantage of moments when their parents are distracted. Something that can very easily happen if the parents have more than one child with them, which I've read was the case here.

Every parent loses their child sometimes and each and every one of us got lost at some point in our childhood. Maybe just for the 30 seconds that it would have taken Isaiah to hop over the woefully inadequate barrier. But it can happen to the best parents.

iguana · 03-06-2016 09:04PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

It would take a 3 year old more than a few seconds to get into the enclosure even if it wasn't as good as it should be, bottom line is the parents are responsible for their kid and they took their eye off the ball.

Have you not seen the pictures of the fence? There are very very few able bodied 3-4 year olds who wouldn't be over it in seconds. It was a piddling little thing. Tbh, a small child could easily have gone over it accidentally, if they stood on the wooden part so they could see over the hedge and swung their body too far forward.

http://static.westernjournalism.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/zoo.jpg

steddyeddy · 03-06-2016 09:23PM

I understand people lose track of their child but in this case the potential loss is too great. The zoo carries most of the blame IMHO but I think there should be some sort of rule whereby the parents have some liability for what happened.

iguana · 03-06-2016 09:23PM

Chain Smoker wrote: »

Beyond ridiculous of the zoo to not have more in place than that. Sure smaller kids could fit between the wires without even having a notion that there's **** all behind those hedges.

It's a really weird design as the hedges actually make it more dangerous. A small child won't be able to see over them and will be seriously tempted to climb the lower part of the fence to see the gorillas. Imagine a family there with more kids than adults and the child not being lifted to see over the fence, takes matters into his/her own hands and stand on the wooden fencing to look over. Tbh, the really surprising thing is that it hadn't happened already and the zoo, spokesman's comments that their fencing was adequate as kids can climb over anything, was really disheartening.

I watched the cheetah's get fed yesterday at Fota and I can tell you that there aren't any small children I know who could scale the 7 or 8 ft tall chicken wire style fence, with electrified wires running through it that separated us from them. While obviously that kind of fencing would be overkill for the gorillas there needed to be something better than what was there.

SEPT 23 1989 · 03-06-2016 09:46PM

I am the proud owner of a five year old who this afternoon managed to cut his foot stepping on a plastic toy soldier in the thirty seconds I went out to have a piss

I don't blame the parents

steddyeddy · 03-06-2016 10:13PM

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

I am the proud owner of a five year old who this afternoon managed to cut his foot stepping on a plastic toy soldier in the thirty seconds I went out to have a piss

I don't blame the parents

I don't believe parents are never responsible for their kids.

SEPT 23 1989 · 03-06-2016 10:21PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

I don't believe parents are never responsible for their kids.

Within reason eddy

ButtersSuki · 03-06-2016 10:31PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

They nearly lost their child.

That wasn't my question.

RebelButtMunch · 03-06-2016 10:51PM

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Are we still talking about one enclosure? Just trying to decide if we'll need a bigger gun or not.

The enclosure is our mind

steddyeddy · 03-06-2016 10:57PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Very sad that the gorilla lost his life because some fool wasn't watching her kid properly.

Not every human life is worth more than an animals either.

Not at all. The animal is endangered. It is highly intelligent and very emotional. Humans are over populating the planet.

steddyeddy · 03-06-2016 10:59PM

It should also be noted that humans are killed to preserve gorilla species i.e pochers executed.

Wailin · 03-06-2016 11:04PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

It should also be noted that humans are killed to preserve gorilla species i.e pochers executed.

Rightfully so.

steddyeddy · 03-06-2016 11:22PM

Wailin wrote: »

Rightfully so.

Oh dead right. There is no "more important" in the animal kingdom.

ceadaoin. · 03-06-2016 11:26PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

I understand people lose track of their child but in this case the potential loss is too great. The zoo carries most of the blame IMHO but I think there should be some sort of rule whereby the parents have some liability for what happened.

They didn't even need to "lose track of their child" for this to happen. Literally looking away for a few seconds would be enough time for a child to get over that fence. That is 100% the zoos fault.

I don't know how many kids were with this family on the day but apparently they have 4 children. Taking their eyes off one of them for a matter of seconds is not neglect.

BorneTobyWilde · 03-06-2016 11:29PM

They went a little ape shiit if you ask me, it was banana's to shoot to kill. They could of
offer it nuts in exchange for the kid, if it fails to agree increase the amount of nuts. If it still fails to do a deal shoot it.

ButtersSuki · 03-06-2016 11:31PM

Sorry am I missing something here? If this fence was so easy to get through/under/over (whichever), what is there to stop the gorillas escaping? Surely there was more than the fence shown in the pic a few pages back?

steddyeddy · 03-06-2016 11:36PM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

They didn't even need to "lose track of their child" for this to happen. Literally looking away for a few seconds would be enough time for a child to get over that fence. That is 100% the zoos fault.

I don't know how many kids were with this family on the day but apparently they have 4 children. Taking their eyes off one of them for a matter of seconds is not neglect.

It took seconds to get into the enclosure?

Lackey · 03-06-2016 11:51PM

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Sorry am I missing something here? If this fence was so easy to get through/under/over (whichever), what is there to stop the gorillas escaping? Surely there was more than the fence shown in the pic a few pages back?

Past the fence and the few bushes bushes that are on a slope there is a 15 ft drop down into the enclosure you're not missing anything that's it in the pictures
I'm surprised the child wasn't seriously injured by the fall alone
And for a kid to end up on the wrong side of that fence and then roll down would only take seconds

Dravokivich · 04-06-2016 12:30AM

Lackey wrote: »

Here it is do you honestly think it would take more than a few seconds for a four year old to climb that and fall down into the animals?

Not sure about the species of gorilla in Dublin zoo, but the area for gorillas is just surrounded by water as they cant swim with a low fence like the one displayed in your photo. Seems a bit complacent to me because they are only conisidering the animals limitations when designing an area to display them.

Discodog · 04-06-2016 12:34AM

It's quite a common problem in zoos. The requirement should be to securely enclose the animals. But there is now the need to stop the public from joining them.

The zoo had no choice other than to shoot the Gorilla. No matter how gentle the Gorilla was the slightest thing could of made it react.

bur · 04-06-2016 12:50AM

I'm all for letting apes eat the children of idiot parents.

Chain Smoker · 04-06-2016 04:44AM

iguana wrote: »

It's a really weird design as the hedges actually make it more dangerous.

I'd say the hedges are to stop the gorillas from going nuts by hiding the crowd of people watching them all day every day.

Would hardly hurt to put a net behind it or something though, yeesh.

The death of Harambe the gorilla

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