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From minutes to miles

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,936 ✭✭✭annapr


    Kennyg71 wrote: »
    Ah now U hope there's no standing around after 8-10 sec of effort:D

    Seriously... 10 seconds hill sprint followed by 3 minutes standing recovery :eek: Fairview park has never seen the like. BG needs to come on here and explain the science so I don't sound like a complete weirdo.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,388 ✭✭✭laura_ac3


    Thanks for the replies folks. Anna, looks like BG is leaving you hanging on this one. But something like that sounds familiar. I do like keeping moving during the recovery and before this I would usually have done easy jogging. I've just found with these fartleks recently walking for a small bit helped keep the legs ticking over but gave me a good chance to properly catch my breath for the next one. But maybe I should jog them....open to all and any feedback!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,921 ✭✭✭Kennyg71


    Had a bit of a look at Fartlek running and if you have to walk you are probably
    Running pickups slightly to fast, all recoveries should be jogged and pickups
    at comfortably hard pace. They are to Improvre strength and racing economy
    so no walking or stopping, jog recoveries help you to recycle any lactate build
    up and should help your anaerobic system and improve endurance.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,388 ✭✭✭laura_ac3


    Kennyg71 wrote: »
    Had a bit of a look at Fartlek running and if you have to walk you are probably
    Running pickups slightly to fast, all recoveries should be jogged and pickups
    at comfortably hard pace. They are to Improvre strength and racing economy
    so no walking or stopping, jog recoveries help you to recycle any lactate build
    up and should help your anaerobic system and improve endurance.

    You're as good. Thanks for that. Very intriguing, might mix it up so next time around.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,984 ✭✭✭Duanington


    Jogged recoveries all the way Laura - great for strength in the aul legs, aerobic stuff and mental toughness I find. Keep up the good work!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,388 ✭✭✭laura_ac3


    Duanington wrote: »
    Jogged recoveries all the way Laura - great for strength in the aul legs, aerobic stuff and mental toughness I find. Keep up the good work!

    Thanks D on both counts. Will change it up next time.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,306 ✭✭✭Myles Splitz


    annapr wrote: »
    Seriously... 10 seconds hill sprint followed by 3 minutes standing recovery :eek: Fairview park has never seen the like. BG needs to come on here and explain the science so I don't sound like a complete weirdo.

    These type of maximal effort sprints work on your nervous system rather than your energy systems. The full recovery is required for these as the nervous system is easily fatigued and as such under recovery means you are not getting the targeted benefits from the session (Steve Magness covers this a bit on his website)

    There is a general post on recoveries I put up a while back here


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,921 ✭✭✭Kennyg71


    Hey Laura network error has a vid link to Pre run stretches for calf's and
    says good for Planter issues as well may be worth a look.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,388 ✭✭✭laura_ac3


    Thanks to Myles for the link on recoveries, very interesting. I'm still learning loads about why we do certain things and what the benefits are so always useful to get feedback and tips. Definitely going to try that stretch that El C recommended, thanks for the heads up G!!!

    To finish off the training for the week....

    Friday - Rest

    Glad of this, after the fartlek and an off day during the week it was good to have it off.

    Saturday - 40 minutes easy (3.95 miles @ 10:08)

    Toyed with the idea of parkrun but a late-ish night on Saturday combined with us having a guest for the night and just feeling like I wanted the extra couple of hours sleep put that idea to rest. Was tight for time due to family commitments later in the day and also needed to go blinds shopping....wild weekend :rolleyes: The OH pointed out that I only really had time for a run or blinds shopping, to which I replied no I can do both if I run to the shop and meet you there. Which led me to arrive in the shop looking like a sweaty mess in my running gear looking at 978 different shades of cream and some very interesting pattern choices. Gave up the will to live and picked something so I could go home and get water. I took a detour through a park on the way to the shop to add some extra minutes...lovely day, lots of people taking in the sun...including one guy with no top on. Grand, regular occurrence in the sun I suppose until I noticed he'd pulled his pants around his ankles and he was lying there in his Y-fronts. I guess some people have to work on their tan every chance they get!!

    Sunday - 60 minutes easy (5.73 miles @ 10:28)

    What a day. Spent hours gardening and painting at home and wanted to leave it until the hottest part of the sun had passed. I was feeling pretty tired by the time I headed out as a result, but had made to sure to drink lots of water all day. Down to St. Anne's, took in the avenue, new parkrun route and some of my other favourite spots. Legs felt pretty good today and I made an effort to keep the pace nice and slow.

    Because of the unplanned rest day last week my mileage for the week didn't actually go down, but all runs were shorter. 17.59 miles for the week. Still plenty more to do on the stretching/exercises front but I've been better this week and am gradually getting some of it back. Just need to build it back into the routine with structure again but a bit of progress anyway.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,182 ✭✭✭demfad


    annapr wrote: »
    Seriously... 10 seconds hill sprint followed by 3 minutes standing recovery :eek: Fairview park has never seen the like. BG needs to come on here and explain the science so I don't sound like a complete weirdo.

    I have done a good few of these over different training periods and looked into them a good bit, so can chip in.

    Distance runners tend to use predominately slow 'endurance' muscle fibres during training. For them, the sprints are primarily aimed at recruiting their hard to reach 'fast' fibres and thereby increasing your available 'muscle fibre pool'.
    Why is that important for distance runners? Many of the fast fibres can take on some of the workload and indeed some of the characteristics of the endurance fibres with training. End of the day: that means you can keep going for longer at race pace.
    The sprints alone don't necessarily achieve this: The sprints are kind of a 'primer' for these fast fibres making them 'available for training'. They are then 'trained' during thresholds, tempos, race pace sessions, long runs etc. when the slower fibres get fatigued.

    AFAIK, the rest period is 2-3 minutes in order for creatine phosphate to regenerate since as it is the principle energy system used. If it is not replenished, you cant hit the hill at close to 100% each time.

    Note * You will also get the benefits that track runners get: neural improvement, strenght for speed, better form, some central nervous system fatigue.

    Sorry for the hijack!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,936 ✭✭✭annapr


    Thanks Demfad and Myles for the 'science bit', very interesting. Just so counter intuitive that running for 10 secs and standing around for 3 mins has such benefits. Of course, BG was right all along :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,388 ✭✭✭laura_ac3


    Monday - Squash

    Tuesday - 50 minutes easy (4.8 miles @ 10:25)

    Brought the cat to the vet and left the OH to drive the cat back after while I ran home the long way. Headed to the seafront, out towards St. Anne's and into the park, up by Mt. Playground, taking in the new pathway, the avenue, a loop of the rose garden and back home. Found this very warm, bumped into the neighbour as I was nearly at the house looking very sweaty, I'd say he thought I was mad :rolleyes:

    Wednesday - Rest

    No football, so took the night off completely

    Thursday - 55 minutes inc 28 mins tempo (5.75 miles)

    Wasn't as apprehensive about this as the last time. Left it until much later to head out, 8:30ish, to avoid the heat. Wanted to avoid roads with lots of traffic and lights so did a couple of loops around Raheny relay/5 mile areas.

    15 mins w/u @ 10:14
    28 mins tempo @ 8:57
    12 mins c/d @ 10:17

    Used the first couple of minutes of the tempo to gradually work into the pace from easy, thought I was in for a tough evening as I felt as if I was flagging after about 10 minutes but I think it was just the route coming into the village. Got into a good rhythm after that, the pace was definitely quicker than the last couple of outings but the body was feeling strong so said I'd try keep at it. Pace varied a bit depending on the drags, was happy with this one.

    Friday - Rest

    Saturday - Castlehaven parkrun - 31:53

    Down in West Cork for the weekend, toyed with going back to this or trying Clonakilty. I had the memory of this tough profile in my head, along with the fab setting conflicting with the appeal of a fast route in Clon. However that's 4 loops of basically a field I think so knowing Castlehaven would look gorgeous in the weather won over. Plus it meant an extra 20 minutes in bed :D When I did this 3 months ago it was my first run in a month, I was getting sick (again) and had a little niggle in my knee. I struggled that day, with walking breaks required, and said I was coming back again soon and not walking at all. With that in mind, and knowing the profile, I set off slower than last time!! Really enjoyed this, struggled a bit at times with the inclines but the friendliness of everyone along with the views and nice trail were a welcome distraction. The finish is up what feels like a vertical climb and then hitting stone slabs built into it as steps before you get to the open space and run across to the chute. It nearly broke me!! The OH was sitting there and laughed out loud when we saw me emerging - so supportive :cool: - he said everyone looked in bits when they came out. They were celebrating their 21st parkrun so lots of lovely cakes in the sunshine to finish off with plenty of friendly people, one of the volunteers even recognized me from last time. I really would recommend this to anyone who has a chance to head out.

    Plan had called for 40 minutes easy, I figured the extra 8 minutes were worth the same difference on that course. Easy looking mile times but the effort was anything but!! Knocked off a few minutes since last time and no walking breaks so mission accomplished, the next goal is to do it in under 30 minutes some day. Off for a drive in the sunshine after along the coast, on days like that sure where else would you want to be :pac:

    Sunday - 75 minutes easy (7.21 miles @ 10:24)

    Couple of loops and extensions around the town. Very muggy and legs felt a bit tired so was glad to get this one done. A few of my recent long runs were with company, which is great in lots of ways but it was good to get through a longer one in just my own company without the distraction benefits that company brings.

    So a 20.81 miles for the week. Finally broke that much awaited 20 miles :P Foot is holding up well but for now I'm not looking to push on too much more. Couple of weeks left in this plan anyway. Have the 5 mile in the Phoenix Park on Sunday so will front load the week a bit for that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭Bungy Girl


    That's a good week, Laura, nicely done! I'm tempted by your description of Castlehaven. May have to organise a road trip, choo choo :D. Didn't realise the 5 miler was imminent, must get into cheerleader mode.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,388 ✭✭✭laura_ac3


    Bungy Girl wrote: »
    That's a good week, Laura, nicely done! I'm tempted by your description of Castlehaven. May have to organise a road trip, choo choo :D. Didn't realise the 5 miler was imminent, must get into cheerleader mode.

    It is a nice spot, especially when you get the weather.

    I know, didn't realise it was so imminent myself. Signed up at the last minute. I've never actually done the 5 mile before for various reasons so didn't want to miss it this year.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,936 ✭✭✭annapr


    laura_ac3 wrote: »
    It is a nice spot, especially when you get the weather.

    I know, didn't realise it was so imminent myself. Signed up at the last minute. I've never actually done the 5 mile before for various reasons so didn't want to miss it this year.

    For some reason, it's a couple of weeks earlier this year than last year...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,009 ✭✭✭Firedance


    Bungy Girl wrote: »
    That's a good week, Laura, nicely done! I'm tempted by your description of Castlehaven. May have to organise a road trip, choo choo :D. Didn't realise the 5 miler was imminent, must get into cheerleader mode.

    yup, ditto, and there'll be novice's flapjacks too presumably :D

    nice work Laura!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,388 ✭✭✭laura_ac3


    annapr wrote: »
    For some reason, it's a couple of weeks earlier this year than last year...

    I thought it seemed early actually. Looking forward to heading out and doing this one for the first time. After no race series last year I need an updated training top wardrobe :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,388 ✭✭✭laura_ac3


    Firedance wrote: »
    yup, ditto, and there'll be novice's flapjacks too presumably :D

    nice work Laura!

    The very woman. I've seen you pop up in multiple threads with recipes for healthy post run snacks etc. Of course I can't remember where I saw any of these, any chance of a reminder handy links?? Please and thanks!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,009 ✭✭✭Firedance


    laura_ac3 wrote: »
    The very woman. I've seen you pop up in multiple threads with recipes for healthy post run snacks etc. Of course I can't remember where I saw any of these, any chance of a reminder handy links?? Please and thanks!!

    Here's some links from the novices thread with a few recipes

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=99865832&postcount=663

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=99869679&postcount=674


    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=99870017&postcount=678


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,388 ✭✭✭laura_ac3


    Firedance wrote: »
    laura_ac3 wrote: »
    The very woman. I've seen you pop up in multiple threads with recipes for healthy post run snacks etc. Of course I can't remember where I saw any of these, any chance of a reminder handy links?? Please and thanks!!

    Here's some links from the novices thread with a few recipes

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=99865832&postcount=663

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=99869679&postcount=674


    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=99870017&postcount=678
    Thank you very much :)


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,447 ✭✭✭FBOT01


    Rumour has it that you are running the 5miler tomorrow. Best of luck and as always ENJOY!!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,009 ✭✭✭Firedance


    ^^^^Are you? ah damn, had hoped to get up to support but won't make it now, best of luck!!!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,119 ✭✭✭Mrs Mc


    Best of luck Laura


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,921 ✭✭✭Kennyg71


    Best of luck tomorrow, have a good one.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭Bungy Girl


    Best of luck !!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,388 ✭✭✭laura_ac3


    Thanks folks for the well wishings....unsure how FBOT heard this rumour while on holidays :confused:

    Monday - 45 minutes easy (4.21 miles @ 10:42)

    Back from West Cork, long drive but dragged my ass off the couch and threw on the runners. Headed to St. Anne's for a route with the avenue and home. I did see one guy wearing long pants and a wooly hat, yes I'll repeat that - a wooly hat, meanwhile the sweat is pumping off me in a shorts and t-shirt :rolleyes: Legs felt tired after the previous few days and drive probably, so kept the pace very easy, actually did this whole run by heart rate

    Tuesday - 30 minutes easy (2.86 miles @ 10:30)

    Disaster. Only chance to run was just after 6 with no food since lunch, not my preferred timing. Temperature still very warm for my liking. Plan called for 55 minutes but I planned on dialling that back to 45 as I was tight for time and one eye on Sunday. After about 15 minutes I knew that wasn't happening. Felt wobbly, no energy and light headed. Said I'd listen to the body and head home, not a day for just toughing it out. Actually stopped on a wall in the shade after 20 minutes to steady myself. Only reason I didn't walk home was I was bursting for the loo :o Got the 30 minutes done anyway, don't know if it was a combination of the heat, bit of dehydration and hungry. I know I don't like running before dinner ordinarily but I can usually still get through it.

    Wednesday - Football

    Half in goal so an easier evening than usual. I felt like I still had a bit of the lethargy from Tuesday and had the option of going back into goal if needed but was ok once I got into it.

    Thursday & Friday - Rest

    Thursday planned, Friday wasn't. Life got in the way, so pushed my pre race loosen out the legs to Saturday.

    Saturday - 21 minutes easy with strides (2.11 miles @ 9.58)

    Volunteering at parkrun and planned 30 minutes after. Paintings on sale at the farmers market caught my eye and got side tracked.....had a busy afternoon so ran home from the park to get a leg loosener in. Added 4....or 5.....strides of approx 15 seconds each. Good to see kennyg looking in good form and killerz looking relaxed ahead of his upcoming Belfast challenge.

    Sunday - Irish Runner 5 mile (total for the day 5.85 miles)

    Not the best timing with a BBQ the evening before. Didn't go mad on the drink but was a late enough night and with a busy day I realised I probably didn't drink enough water on the Saturday. Had the alarm set in plenty of time for the arrival of the D3 bus at 9am (annapr also running and aquinn as chief supporter). Off to a great start when I realised I slept it out and it was 8.35 :eek: Threw some food into me, downed loads of water, thankfully I had had laid out the race gear the evening before. Legged it out the door to the others with my watch hanging out of my mouth, my race number in my hand and my shoelaces untied - only to be asked had I brushed my hair......eh, no - no time, priorities :eek:

    Parked up on Chesterfield Avenue and walked towards the start while tending to my number pinning and shoelace tying. No fear of not entering this race relaxed anyway :cool: Anna and I were doing a pre-race course figuring out discussion and we left aquinn to a bit of a warm up (0.79 miles) and use the facilities before lining up in wave 3 just before 10.

    I had no time goal in mind as I knew a pb was still a bit out of reach, just to do better than my last 5 mile which was Raheny in January (44.45) and was conscious of the profile of the course. Thought 8:40ish pace was reasonable with that in mind. We had obviously started too far back in wave 3 as we were totally boxed in initially, I didn't want to do much weaving but it was hard not to in order to keep some momentum going. I was sweating quite a lot and commented to Anna about it being muggy. Felt like I was working hard but sustainable and the first mile hit in 8:41, told Anna we were bang on pace (given she works in unfathomable kilometres). A little way into the second mile I noticed Anna was a bit behind but I assumed she had just gotten boxed in. When she pulled alongside she told me to go on, I asked if she was sure and was she ok, she said she was and to continue on. Asked again to make sure and then went on. Crossing Chesterfield Avenue I thought I might see aquinn but no sign until I heard from behind me "Anna, there you there" with plenty of cheering. Happy that Anna was ok and ticking away and buoyed by the unseen, but heard, aquinn support I was looking forward to the upcoming downhill stretch.

    I took advantage and let the pace creep downwards slightly for the same effort but kept it dialled back so as not to ruin my race here. Mile 2 was a bit ahead of target with 8:33 on the watch, the legs felt fresh enough after the easier week too. Narrowed on the Khyber and had to throw the arm out to push a guy off who literally cut across me while weaving without paying any attention to his surroundings. I knew I had banked a few seconds as we turned for Military Hill. Reassured myself with thoughts of the fact I ran this so often when living nearby, I'm not as ****ed as those other people who are walking and you didn't leave your race on the downhills. Pace slowed a bit but moved well and as I crested the hill hitting the S-bends the third mile was 8:40 still thanks to those few seconds in the first half of the mile.

    I was feeling tired now and breathing was heavy and the undulation of the S-bends was sapping. Tried to refocus the mind and adapt to the profile and let myself have a chuckle at one of the motivational signs "savour the moment". Why would I want to savour this I thought, I want it to be over ;) Took a small advantage of the downhill as we headed towards the water station, had to curtail my stride as some oblivious lad pretty much stopped in front of me - twice - and felt I was moving in treacle getting it back up again. Heading up the Upper Glen Road I was focused on just trying to move past people and telling myself that it's not that steep as I couldn't see the tops of other people properly. Got great motivation going past woman with her music blaring off her iPod on her arm....which I helpfully pointed out we didn't all want to listen to. I don't have my headphones she says....clearly snaps I back to her....Christ I was cranky today.....:eek: Powered off to get away from my friend and just focused on putting one foot in front of each other. Mile 4 wasn't far off target on 8:42 but hitting the turns for Chesterfield I struggled. I know I find this part of the park so demoralising and always struggle here. Thoughts of walking entered but I tried to "embrace" them, this is your usual wobble, you're just having it later because of the easier first half, you've slowed but it's all good, just keep moving. Saw Mrskennyg here and was helped on by her support. After a few minutes I had picked the pace up and it was hitting just under 9 m/m again. The finish seemed forever away so I focused on hitting each marathon series flag and knocking off each one and waiting to hear aquinn who appeared on the left. Couldn't even acknowledge her (she helpfully told me after I didn't look great :D). Had hit 5 miles on the watch just before the finish at 8:53 so I had picked up the pace despite feeling like I was moving at glacial speeds. Official time then was 43:57.

    Waited for Anna who crossed the line shortly after before we rendezvoused with aquinn. Met Nop, Marthastew and Mr. Stew and had a good chat with them and a cool down walk back to the car then. Happy enough with today, average pace was 8:41 so pretty spot on and I think I got the pacing about right, possibly could have discovered a deep lying reserve for a better finishing kick but one to work on. Going in the right direction and happy to improve my Raheny time on a more challenging course in tougher conditions. Plenty more to do, a good way off my PB, but it's all getting there. The low key week (15.03 miles) probably helped as a mini taper and no harm having a lower mileage week as my last step back week wasn't actually a mileage step back.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,526 ✭✭✭Killerz


    Well done today! And thanks for helping out yesterday... I saw you engrossed in those pictures after the run alright!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,119 ✭✭✭Mrs Mc


    Well done Laura training is coming good for you :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,687 ✭✭✭Darren 83


    Well done Laura on a hard 5 mile race in the heat.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,936 ✭✭✭annapr


    Perfect pacing today, Laura... Your comeback is well and truly on! :)

    Touched by your concern too...:p


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