Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

Bill Hicks? Overrated or underrated?

135678

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 662 ✭✭✭Maireadio


    but the man died in his thirties from smoking so his observations kinda ring hollow in this case.

    He died of pancreatic cancer. Some lifestyle factors including smoking can give an elevated risk but usually far later on in life. He died in his early thirties so it's fair to say cancer was probably swimming around in his body from at least his late 20s. I'd tend to chalk that down to being massively unlucky rather than due to anything he did himself.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 662 ✭✭✭Maireadio


    What comedians do you like? No better way to get a sense of someones taste than that.

    I love this. "Tell me comedians you like so that I can piss all over your taste and inform you that you just don't "get" Bill Hicks". :D

    Like this chap:
    MadDog76 wrote: »
    Hicks was an intelligent comedian, ie. if you're an intelligent person then you will have found him funny/entertaining and generally just "get" him ........ if you don't like him ......... well ...........

    The Ricky Gervais defence, as I like to call it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭smurgen


    Watched a few more clips and it further enforced my ideas.the just a ride clip for example,a load of rubish.I'd barely call it stanf up comedy.I actually cringe at some of his stuff it's that bad.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,588 ✭✭✭Squeeonline


    Cienciano wrote: »
    They're not funny. Give me Brendan O'Carroll, Hector, Brendan Grace, June Rogers, Sil Fox and Maeve Higgins any day of the week

    Then you have a very different sense of humour and are probably not compatible with the likes of Eddie Murphy, Richard Pryor, or Bill Hicks.

    Hector is not funny. I cringe when I hear him.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 164 ✭✭Internet Ham


    Maireadio wrote: »
    I love this. "Tell me comedians you like so that I can piss all over your taste and inform you that you just don't "get" Bill Hicks". :D

    Precisely.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 662 ✭✭✭Maireadio


    Precisely.

    Well, at least you'e upfront about that, I suppose. It's not very enlightened though. *shrug*


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,387 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    I _genuinely_ have no idea who you are talking about.

    So as a test for over or under rating you could suggest two or three clips for me.

    And I will tell you my response.
    If you have no idea who he is all you are going to be saying is if he is good or not, unless you are going to just go off the few "ratings" in this thread. This happens in other threads about music people thinking the word overrated is synonymous with "bad", and underrated equates to good.

    I like the beatles, I now consider then underrated since it nowadays is so common to hear people say they were mediocre -I don't believe many are genuine though, they just think they are overrated and want to bring them down a peg or 2. At one time I did think they were overrated even though I rated them very highly. The kinks would be the opposite for me, think they are overrated now, the OTT praise usually comes about since the beatles and stones are being discussed. (I love the kinks too)
    Wompa1 wrote: »
    I'd say underrated because he doesn't and didn't really have much mainstream success. He's a cult like figure. But I'd say overrated by that cult following.
    +1, many are OTT with praise, some people appear pissed off when you say they know him, like he was their little secret.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 164 ✭✭Internet Ham


    Maireadio wrote: »
    Well, at least you'e upfront about that, I suppose. It's not very enlightened though. *shrug*

    I could attempt to be erudite about it but I feel my efforts would be wasted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    Maireadio wrote: »
    I love this. "Tell me comedians you like so that I can piss all over your taste and inform you that you just don't "get" Bill Hicks". :D

    Like this chap:



    The Ricky Gervais defence, as I like to call it.

    Ricky Gervais ......... now, HE's funny!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 662 ✭✭✭Maireadio


    I could attempt to be erudite about it but I feel my efforts would be wasted.

    That's convenient. ;)


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,056 ✭✭✭applehunter


    Overrated.

    Isn't a comedian supposed to make you laugh?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,208 ✭✭✭✭Cienciano


    Then you have a very different sense of humour and are probably not compatible with the likes of Eddie Murphy, Richard Pryor, or Bill Hicks.

    Hector is not funny. I cringe when I hear him.

    I wasn't being serious!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,387 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    Overrated.

    Isn't a comedian supposed to make you laugh?

    he was not simply a comedian though, did you see the OP
    Personally I always found him to be overrated as a comedian, he just wasn't my idea of hilarious...but underrated as a polemicist and a political commentator.

    If you are rating him purely on how many laughs you get fine. If I want a laugh a minute I will watch someone like Stewart Francis banging out one liners. I still enjoy Hicks shows but am certainly do not have sore sides from laughing.

    Legendary Comedian Bill Hicks Was Definitely a Legend, but Was He a Comedian?
    Bill Hicks was undoubtedly a massive influence on contemporary standup comedy. The impact of his confrontational style can be seen in countless comedians today, from David Cross to Patton Oswalt, Marc Maron to Denis Leary. Because of this inarguable influence and the high regard in which others hold him, I’ve attempted on several occasions to appreciate Hicks’s material. Each time I listen to it, I have the same reaction: Yes, I agree with most of what you’re saying, but… Where are the jokes? Where’s the comedy?

    After trying time and again to figure out just why everyone respects him, I realized I had made a mistake: I was looking to laugh. Bill Hicks was a smart, impassioned man who used comedy to educate people. But he was not a comedian, and he should not be remembered as such.

    For all Hicks’ influence on comedy, the comedians who remember him rarely focus on his actual humor. Richard Pryor called him “an inspired and inspiring truth teller, dangerous and brave and scary, all at once.” Simon Pegg said, “Bill Hicks wasn’t just a comic, he was a crusader against humanity’s relentless capacity to underachieve.” Even non-comedians, those you’d expect to look beyond the craft and simply enjoy the jokes, ignore Hicks’ humor. Fellow iconoclast Tom Waits said Hicks was a “blowtorch, excavator, truthsayer, and brain specialist. He will correct your vision. Others will drive on the road he built.” While many comedians cite Hicks as an influence. few remember him as someone who made them laugh.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    Reminds me of in the 70s, 80s and 90s when Woody Allen was lionised as this cool, intellectual comic genius. The black polo neck, gitane smoking crowd loved him.
    I would try really hard to get it but apart from some good lines in mostly mediocre and boring movies, I just never really saw the brilliance.
    Then he turned out to be an incestuous kiddy fiddler and most of his films are just boring ****e anyway.
    Bill Hicks? Shouty, rude and way overrated.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭smurgen


    LorMal wrote: »
    Reminds me of in the 70s, 80s and 90s when Woody Allen was lionised as this cool, intellectual comic genius. The black polo neck, gitane smoking crowd loved him.
    I would try really hard to get it but apart from some good lines in mostly mediocre and boring movies, I just never really saw the brilliance.
    Then he turned out to be an incestuous kiddy fiddler and most of his films are just boring ****e anyway.
    Bill Hicks? Shouty, rude and way overrated.

    Spot on.never got the appeal of woody Allen either.I think my main issue is that I don't like hick's personality.I know that's the point really ,that he's meant to be crass and insulting but the the same could be said of Louis C.K who I think is excellent.Hicks just sounds like someone trying to impress,trying too hard to be the rebel with an I don't give a **** attitude.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    Ah bollix! Never realised liking both Bill Hicks AND Woody Allen made me such a pretentious tosser. Think I need a smoke, where did I leave me gitanes?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    smurgen wrote: »
    Spot on.never got the appeal of woody Allen either.I think my main issue is that I don't like hick's personality.I know that's the point really ,that he's meant to be crass and insulting but the the same could be said of Louis C.K who I think is excellent.Hicks just sounds like someone trying to impress,trying too hard to be the rebel with an I don't give a **** attitude.

    "Good evening, my name is Bill Hicks. I've been on the road now doing comedy 12 years, so, uh, bear with me while I plaster on a fake smile and plough through this sh*t one more time. … I'm kinda tired of travelling, kinda tired of doing comedy, kinda tired of staring out at your blank faces looking back at me, wanting me to fill your empty lives with humour you couldn't possibly think of yourselves." 1991

    "I deal only in facts, that's why I'm a cocky f*ckin' bastard." 1992

    "This idea of "I'm offended". Well I've got news for you. I'm offended by a lot of things too. Where do I send my list? Life is offensive. You know what I mean? Just get in touch with your outer adult. And grow up. And move on. Reasonable people don't write letters because... A: They have lives and B, they understand it's just TV. C: If they see something they don't like, something they do like might be on later. I've seen many comics I've hated. I've seen many shows that have offended me. I've never written a letter. I just go about my life." 1993

    - Bill Hicks


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭smurgen


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    "Good evening, my name is Bill Hicks. I've been on the road now doing comedy 12 years, so, uh, bear with me while I plaster on a fake smile and plough through this sh*t one more time. … I'm kinda tired of travelling, kinda tired of doing comedy, kinda tired of staring out at your blank faces looking back at me, wanting me to fill your empty lives with humour you couldn't possibly think of yourselves." 1991

    "I deal only in facts, that's why I'm a cocky f*ckin' bastard." 1992

    "This idea of "I'm offended". Well I've got news for you. I'm offended by a lot of things too. Where do I send my list? Life is offensive. You know what I mean? Just get in touch with your outer adult. And grow up. And move on. Reasonable people don't write letters because... A: They have lives and B, they understand it's just TV. C: If they see something they don't like, something they do like might be on later. I've seen many comics I've hated. I've seen many shows that have offended me. I've never written a letter. I just go about my life." 1993

    - Bill Hicks

    emperor's new clothes.he wasn't as smart as people portray him to be.and if he was as cynical as he portrayed himself to be why bother being an entertainer regurgitating the same **** to people you don't care about?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,056 ✭✭✭applehunter


    Never got him. I remember Ardal O'Hanlon eulogising about him on radio one day with dismay.

    I'll bow to the wisdom of the comic's comic Norm MacDonald



    Norm give his opinion on "important comedy" 0 - 7.14.

    On Bill Hicks "1.00.15 - 1.03.18"

    On Genine Garafalo "1.04.43 -

    George Carlin, Lenny Bruce, Genine Garaflo & Bill Hicks come under the umbrella of "important comedy"




    Norm on the comedy of Bill Hicks " 1.00.33 - 1.01.10"


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,519 ✭✭✭Flint Fredstone


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    "Good evening, my name is Bill Hicks. I've been on the road now doing comedy 12 years, so, uh, bear with me while I plaster on a fake smile and plough through this sh*t one more time. … I'm kinda tired of travelling, kinda tired of doing comedy, kinda tired of staring out at your blank faces looking back at me, wanting me to fill your empty lives with humour you couldn't possibly think of yourselves." 1991

    "I deal only in facts, that's why I'm a cocky f*ckin' bastard." 1992

    "This idea of "I'm offended". Well I've got news for you. I'm offended by a lot of things too. Where do I send my list? Life is offensive. You know what I mean? Just get in touch with your outer adult. And grow up. And move on. Reasonable people don't write letters because... A: They have lives and B, they understand it's just TV. C: If they see something they don't like, something they do like might be on later. I've seen many comics I've hated. I've seen many shows that have offended me. I've never written a letter. I just go about my life." 1993

    - Bill Hicks

    Hilarious.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,402 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    I think Hicks is both overrated and underrated. The hero worship that exists around him is a bit much at times, but he was - without doubt - one of the greatest comedians of all time.

    He's overrated partly because so much of his material has become part of the standard issue undergraduate cliche arsenal - it's a rite of passage for some people to quote Bill Hicks ad-nauseaum, as if everything he had to say was something not that far removed from the word of God. I think that's a lot of the reason that people get a bit sick of all the talking about him: his placement on a pedestal by others. I think part of his appeal is that he kind of flatters the ego of (some of the) people who like him - he's intelligent, he's talking about ideas as much as he's cracking jokes, therefore: if I like him it means that I too am intelligent and, if you don't, it means that you just don't get it. And a common knee-jerk reaction with people who are told they just don't get something is a "well, you're the stupid one, there's nothing to get... He's not even funny.

    I don't think intelligence has got a lot to do with it, more just how you like your comedy served. Whether you like him or not has, in my opinion, more to do with taste than it has to do with braincells. I think Hicks probably turns a lot of people off because of the manner in which he ranted, raved and hectored his audience - a lot of people are going to immediately be turned off by that. And then to have people banging on about his genius!! A lot of his stuff is abrasive and hard to like - He suffered from smugness, picking on easy-targets, picking on the wrong-targets, having a sometimes simplistic view of the solutions to the worlds problems, sometimes making it feel like he wanted to put people through an ordeal rather than to make them laugh...

    But, here's the thing - Despite all that, I do think Hicks was a genius. He followed his own path, did things his own way, spoke his mind and never hid his true feelings. Yes, sometimes, he could be needlessly bleak or hard to take, but I think if you listen to a lot of his material you could come around to the idea that he was actually really quite a hopeful guy, who had it in him to be, occasionally, pretty profound about life. He was complicated and you can't pigeonhole him. I like that about him. There was more to him that just rhyming off endless jokes - that wasn't his ultimate goal, I think - but that's not to say he wasn't funny. Some of his routines - Dinosaurs in The Bible, What are you readin for?, Terminally Ill People Meeting Chuck Norris, etc,etc, - are some of the most flat out hilarious bits of stand-up I've ever heard. When he was on the money, he killed. Some people here have said that he ripped off George Carlin. I don’t agree. He was definitely influenced by him, for sure. But Carlin was never as deep or as dark as Hicks. Hicks was unique. But he was, at the end of the day, just another guy.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 662 ✭✭✭Maireadio


    smurgen wrote: »
    I know that's the point really ,that he's meant to be crass and insulting but the the same could be said of Louis C.K who I think is excellent.Hicks just sounds like someone trying to impress,trying too hard to be the rebel with an I don't give a **** attitude.

    Louis CK is a great example of someone who is intelligent AND hilarious. He shows that the two are not mutally exclusive.
    Arghus wrote: »
    I think part of his appeal is that he kind of flatters the ego of (some of the) people who like him - he's intelligent, he's talking about ideas as much as he's cracking jokes, therefore: if I like him it means that I too am intelligent and, if you don't, it means that you just don't get it.

    Bingo. We've ever seen this play out in this very thread. We've even had a poster call people who dislike him unintelligent and from what I can glean, they weren't even joking! I don't agree that the standard rebuttal is "Well, you're the stupid one for liking him". It tends to be more along the lines of "I get it, as it's hardly complicated stuff, I just don't find it that funny".


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 963 ✭✭✭Labarbapostiza


    LorMal wrote: »
    Reminds me of in the 70s, 80s and 90s when Woody Allen was lionised as this cool, intellectual comic genius. The black polo neck, gitane smoking crowd loved him.
    I would try really hard to get it but apart from some good lines in mostly mediocre and boring movies, I just never really saw the brilliance.
    Then he turned out to be an incestuous kiddy fiddler and most of his films are just boring ****e anyway.
    Bill Hicks? Shouty, rude and way overrated.

    Don't knock masturbation....it's sex with someone you love...That's a Woody Allen joke, and if that doesn't make you laugh, I don't know what will.

    Okay...the rudeness and poor taste might not be to your liking.

    I suppose the family entertainment of Michael Barrymore would have you slapping your thighs, in convulsions of good clean jest....Great pity that misunderstanding happened in the swimming pool with your man and all that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    Don't knock masturbation....it's sex with someone you love...That's a Woody Allen joke, and if that doesn't make you laugh, I don't know what will.

    Okay...the rudeness and poor taste might not be to your liking.

    I suppose the family entertainment of Michael Barrymore would have you slapping your thighs, in convulsions of good clean jest....Great pity that misunderstanding happened in the swimming pool with your man and all that.
    I am not urbane, sophisticated and all knowing .
    Yessiree, I do love family entertainment - Ant and Dec and all....
    (You have just proved my point)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    Ah bollix! Never realised liking both Bill Hicks AND Woody Allen made me such a pretentious tosser. Think I need a smoke, where did I leave me gitanes?

    They are under your black poloneck.:)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,484 ✭✭✭Chain Smoker


    Hicks definitely had a certain presence and occasional insight about him that was really strong. It's somewhat hard to gauge whether he was trying to pander to audiences a bit or if he just hadn't a particularly wide weltanschauung, though.

    I think Woody Allen's brilliant, a total savant and a mess of a person, but God he was great. His early standup is still great, despite having no stage presence and the whole medium evolving hugely in the meantime. His early comedies are hilarious, albeit messy. His written stuff is usually sparkling with wit. His late 70s-early 90s films have so many classics and almost no duds, some lovely films.
    After that his writing became more cautious, money and age completely disconnected him from a world he was barely connected to as well. It's not exactly common for writers to remain being any good into their 60s though, is it?
    He's almost certainly an awful person and I'm kind of expecting a whole load of **** to emerge once he dies, but that doesn't at all diminish just how much a film like Annie Hall has lifted my spirits in the past. It's not a Bill Cosby-type case where the material entirely hinges on the creator not being a monster.



    I wonder which of my big rant about woody allen and using the weltanschauung will be the more annoying part of this post...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Dirty Dingus McGee


    Hicks definitely had a certain presence and occasional insight about him that was really strong. It's somewhat hard to gauge whether he was trying to pander to audiences a bit or if he just hadn't a particularly wide weltanschauung, though.

    I think Woody Allen's brilliant, a total savant and a mess of a person, but God he was great. His early standup is still great, despite having no stage presence and the whole medium evolving hugely in the meantime. His early comedies are hilarious, albeit messy. His written stuff is usually sparkling with wit. His late 70s-early 90s films have so many classics and almost no duds, some lovely films.
    After that his writing became more cautious, money and age completely disconnected him from a world he was barely connected to as well. It's not exactly common for writers to remain being any good into their 60s though, is it?
    He's almost certainly an awful person and I'm kind of expecting a whole load of **** to emerge once he dies, but that doesn't at all diminish just how much a film like Annie Hall has lifted my spirits in the past. It's not a Bill Cosby-type case where the material entirely hinges on the creator not being a monster.



    I wonder which of my big rant about woody allen and using the weltanschauung will be the more annoying part of this post...

    Woody Allen is a genius simple as that, I haven't seen many of his recent films (apart from Match Point) but Annie Hall,Hannah and her Sisters , Crimes and Misdemeanours are simply masterpeices.Doesn't matter how much of a wierdo he is it doens't take away form his brilliance.

    From Love and Death

    Woman: You're the best lover I've ever had
    Allen: Well I do practcie a lot by myself.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 662 ✭✭✭Maireadio


    It's somewhat hard to gauge whether he was trying to pander to audiences a bit or if he just hadn't a particularly wide weltanschauung, though.

    I have a new word. :cool:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    Woody Allen is a genius simple as that, I haven't seen many of his recent films (apart from Match Point) but Annie Hall,Hannah and her Sisters , Crimes and Misdemeanours are simply masterpeices.Doesn't matter how much of a wierdo he is it doens't take away form his brilliance.

    From Love and Death

    Woman: You're the best lover I've ever had
    Allen: Well I do practcie a lot by myself.

    Yep. Some very good one liners as I said. And a couple of good movies. But please.. Broadway Annie Rose, The Purple Rose of Cairo, Zelig...and about 30 more nobody remembers....all completely awful.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,819 ✭✭✭Aglomerado


    I always liked his description of being in a diner down south:

    "What ya readin' for?" :D:D:D

    Revolution?

    EVOLUTION!
    !


Advertisement
Advertisement