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Is Rugby Sevens actually just crap?

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  • 22-05-2016 10:37am
    #1
    Richard Hillman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭


    The importance of sevens has been highlighted over the last couple of years with the Olympics coming up. A lot of well known players are switching to sevens for the shot at the Olympics.

    Over the last couple of years I have been flicking it on Tv and lose interest quickly after a player strolls over the try line for the 5th time in 3 minutes, to the applause of an old man, his dog and 3 lads in fancy dress.

    I love rugby. I watch both Union and League. This is not rugby though. The scoring is frivelous and excessive. The 5 people in the crowd don't even care. There is barely a ripple of applause when a team scores their 8th try in 10 minutes.

    Imagine watching a game of 5 aside football, on a full sized pitch, with Vauxhall Conference standard players and there is a goal every 40 seconds. It sounds like crap, and that is exactly what sevens is.

    Now that I have annoyed the all 5 of rugby sevens global fandom, I will annoy everybody else by saying Rugby Sevens is crap.....Discuss?


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    #2
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Richard Hillman wrote: »

    I love rugby. I watch both Union and League.

    Theres your issue right there. Maybe some sort of bloodsport would have been a better 3rd option for you to add, its the natural progression from league.:)


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    #3
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users Posts: 13,340 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    Watching a cracking game between NZ and USA whilst reading this.


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    #4
    NiallBoo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭NiallBoo


    If you like watching something as turgid as league then sevens isn't for you.

    I'm guessing you also did the aviva premiership watchable?

    All in all, don't worry about it.


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    #5
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Just realised who the OP is. Which other sports shall you be calling in to question today?


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    #6
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,254 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    It's grand to watch a 5 minute highlights package from a 7s weekend and it's probably a bit of fun if you're there but other than that it's kind of repetitive and I quickly get bored of it.


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    #7
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users Posts: 13,340 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    Attendances can look sparse alright and a London crowd isn't likely to be too interested in a shield/plate game between Canada and Portugal. So if you switch on whilst such a game is happening then it can be a tough watch.

    Its a long day and as I understand it people pick and choose games to watch, then wander for something to eat, go to the commercial stalls etc. So you can't really compare crowds directly to the 80 minute game where generally the entire crowd will be there for the whole game.
    Attendances can be hit and miss - USA got 80,000 cumulative this year, whilst other events (Scotland) got dropped due to poor attendances.
    Its an ongoing development finding the correct circuit.

    One massive thing it has going for it imo is that there is no standout best team, if everything clicks on the weekend then a wide variety of teams can win.
    This years 9 events have been won by NZ, Fiji, Samoa, South Africa and Kenya. England and the USA binked one last year.


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    #8
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,197 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    In fairness, 7-a-side rugby, whilst it can be entertaining and fun to watch, is a bit crap. No country (that has the full game as their primary version) uses their best players or even guys who would be anywhere near the best. For example, I don't know a single player on the English squad when looking at the names. They're guys who couldn't make a career out of the 15 a side game for the most part.

    It's a sideshow, really. The fact that it's now in the Olympics has elevated its status dramatically but it won't change the fact that the actual standard of rugby is not good.


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    #9
    clsmooth
    Registered Users Posts: 3,591 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    Used to love it when you had the likes of Serevi and Vunibaka going up against Lomu and Eric Rush. They were the days..


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    #10
    Risteard
    Registered Users Posts: 2,698 ✭✭✭Risteard


    Yes.


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    #11
    Richard Hillman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    Just realised who the OP is. Which other sports shall you be calling in to question today?

    Amateur boxing in the Olympics. Imagine having amateur tennis in the Olympics??? Ridiculous.


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    #12
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users Posts: 13,340 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    Richard Hillman wrote: »
    Amateur boxing in the Olympics. Imagine having amateur tennis in the Olympics??? Ridiculous.

    If it genuinely bothered you so much then I'm surprised you weren't aware they changed it. Professionals boxers are allowed now.


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    #13
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,836 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    It's fun to watch and I'd like to go to an event but it's not really rugby and I think it probably does very little in terms of player progression.

    That said, it's refreshing to see the likes of Kenya being able to play it to a high level and the exposure rugby in general will get from 7s being in the Olympics can hardly hurt.


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    #14
    Dave_The_Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 7,348 ✭✭✭Dave_The_Sheep


    Great aul final there between Scotland and South Africa, fair play to the Scots.


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    #15
    swiwi_
    Registered Users Posts: 4,490 ✭✭✭swiwi_


    Mildly surreal thread given Ireland don't field a 7s team - I suppose the IRFU must also find 7s a bit crap. I wouldn't be the biggest fan - it's not as intricate as 15s, but much easier viewing for the non-rugby fan.

    Some of the skills (off-loading, fast wings who score tries, keeping the ball in hand) could enhance the Irish XVs - in saying that Scotland scored a try from a rolling maul in the London 7s final, so maybe Ireland would be just fine...

    I actually felt a tad Irish in the weekend, NZ getting their asses handed to them by a side from the Americas in the 1/4 final of a world tournament :p

    Anyway, well done to Scotland for securing a piece of silverware.

    As for the Olympics, it's a wide wide open field, the days of each tournament being a 2-horse race between Fiji and NZ are well gone.


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    #16
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    I was at the Paris 7s last week for a day and actually decided I'd go for the full weekend next time. Some cracking rugby with an amazing atmosphere. Loved it!


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    #17
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Richard Hillman wrote: »
    The importance of sevens has been highlighted over the last couple of years with the Olympics coming up. A lot of well known players are switching to sevens for the shot at the Olympics.

    Over the last couple of years I have been flicking it on Tv and lose interest quickly after a player strolls over the try line for the 5th time in 3 minutes, to the applause of an old man, his dog and 3 lads in fancy dress.

    I love rugby. I watch both Union and League. This is not rugby though. The scoring is frivelous and excessive. The 5 people in the crowd don't even care. There is barely a ripple of applause when a team scores their 8th try in 10 minutes.
    If sevens isn't rugby then what exactly is rugby? Yes there is lots of scores. Why is that bad? What is wrong with the higher number of scores and proportion of scores in a 7s compared to 15s?
    ArmaniJeanss wrote: »
    Attendances can look sparse alright and a London crowd isn't likely to be too interested in a shield/plate game between Canada and Portugal. So if you switch on whilst such a game is happening then it can be a tough watch.

    Its a long day and as I understand it people pick and choose games to watch, then wander for something to eat, go to the commercial stalls etc. So you can't really compare crowds directly to the 80 minute game where generally the entire crowd will be there for the whole game.
    Attendances can be hit and miss - USA got 80,000 cumulative this year, whilst other events (Scotland) got dropped due to poor attendances.
    Its an ongoing development finding the correct circuit.

    One massive thing it has going for it imo is that there is no standout best team, if everything clicks on the weekend then a wide variety of teams can win.
    This years 9 events have been won by NZ, Fiji, Samoa, South Africa and Kenya. England and the USA binked one last year.
    And that's a good thing. 7s is a festival day out. "Carnival" day out. Its a 6-8 hour affair in stadium compared to 2 for a one off 15s game so of course people will pick and choose games and they cant be compared.
    Buer wrote: »
    In fairness, 7-a-side rugby, whilst it can be entertaining and fun to watch, is a bit crap. No country (that has the full game as their primary version) uses their best players or even guys who would be anywhere near the best. For example, I don't know a single player on the English squad when looking at the names. They're guys who couldn't make a career out of the 15 a side game for the most part.

    It's a sideshow, really. The fact that it's now in the Olympics has elevated its status dramatically but it won't change the fact that the actual standard of rugby is not good.
    What makes it crap? That countries don't use their best 15s players doesn't mean the best players are not used. Their is a specialisation required as fitness levels and skill usage is quite different in the two games but that doesn't mean the standard of rugby is poor.
    Podge_irl wrote: »
    It's fun to watch and I'd like to go to an event but it's not really rugby and I think it probably does very little in terms of player progression.

    That said, it's refreshing to see the likes of Kenya being able to play it to a high level and the exposure rugby in general will get from 7s being in the Olympics can hardly hurt.
    If 7s is "not really rugby" then what exactly is rugby?


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    #18
    Nermal
    Registered Users Posts: 2,624 ✭✭✭Nermal


    Somehow both forms of the game manage to get the balance wrong. In 7s space is too easy to find, so too often the contest is between individuals rather than teams. In modern 15s there's just no space at all. If only there was a third way...


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    #19
    Mr.Nice Guy
    Registered Users Posts: 45,558 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Nice Guy


    I've watched it a couple of times and have found it fairly entertaining. I think after a while with so many games it can get dull, so I would favour a 'less is more' approach.


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    #20
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,836 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    If 7s is "not really rugby" then what exactly is rugby?

    XVs...

    Just like 5-a side soccer is essentially a different sport.


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    #21
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    XVs...

    Just like 5-a side soccer is essentially a different sport.
    I don't think you c an say that. They are all varients of the one sport. That one is more widely played doesn't make it the real sport.

    It should be played more often. There should be county/provincial and nationwide competitions at age grade level every season as well as at open grade adult level.


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    #22
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,197 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    What makes it crap? That countries don't use their best 15s players doesn't mean the best players are not used.

    It doesn't mean the best players are not used but we all know the best players are not used.

    There are stars on the English team that were average players at Championship level. I refuse to believe that guys like Christian Wade or Teimana Harrison wouldn't be far more potent weapons with a little exposure to Sevens. Similarly, Andrew Conway isn't in the Irish squad.

    They're stars in the XV man game though and would be seen by most as wasted in the reduced version.


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    #23
    NiallBoo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭NiallBoo


    Buer wrote: »
    They're stars in the XV man game though and would be seen by most as wasted in the reduced version.

    a catch 22 situation. The sport can't be a bigger deal because it doesn't have the best players and it didn't have the best players because it isn't a big deal.

    Anyway, that's not something inherently wrong with the sport - which is what op was asking.

    If you were view sevens as fundamentally flawed because of that then you could view rugby as flawed because young talented players sometimes choose to play other sports instead. Round and round we go.


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    #24
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Buer wrote: »
    It doesn't mean the best players are not used but we all know the best players are not used.

    There are stars on the English team that were average players at Championship level. I refuse to believe that guys like Christian Wade or Teimana Harrison wouldn't be far more potent weapons with a little exposure to Sevens. Similarly, Andrew Conway isn't in the Irish squad.

    They're stars in the XV man game though and would be seen by most as wasted in the reduced version.
    Andrew Conway isn't in the irish squad but why should he? Being good at 15s doesn't mean you will be good at 7s.
    Nucifora and coaches of 7s looked at some senior provincially contracted players but I take it its mainly the academy players and club players who are involved now
    NiallBoo wrote: »
    a catch 22 situation. The sport can't be a bigger deal because it doesn't have the best players and it didn't have the best players because it isn't a big deal.

    Anyway, that's not something inherently wrong with the sport - which is what op was asking.

    If you were view sevens as fundamentally flawed because of that then you could view rugby as flawed because young talented players sometimes choose to play other sports instead. Round and round we go.
    +1


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    #25
    JPNelsforearm
    Registered Users Posts: 2,147 ✭✭✭JPNelsforearm


    Nermal wrote: »
    Somehow both forms of the game manage to get the balance wrong. In 7s space is too easy to find, so too often the contest is between individuals rather than teams. In modern 15s there's just no space at all. If only there was a third way...

    10's or 11's?


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    #26
    Braken
    Registered Users Posts: 178 ✭✭Braken


    JPNelsforearm wrote: »
    10's or 11's?
    There is..the world club 10s. Is on in Mauritius in mid June...Toulon,Sarries etc


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    #27
    freyners
    Registered Users Posts: 4,300 ✭✭✭freyners


    Nermal wrote: »
    Somehow both forms of the game manage to get the balance wrong. In 7s space is too easy to find, so too often the contest is between individuals rather than teams. In modern 15s there's just no space at all. If only there was a third way...

    Its called rugby league, see below an example :pac:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6SkdNmu6n0


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    #28
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,836 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    I don't think you c an say that. They are all varients of the one sport. That one is more widely played doesn't make it the real sport.

    It should be played more often. There should be county/provincial and nationwide competitions at age grade level every season as well as at open grade adult level.

    We're in danger of getting bogged down in semantics here, but fine, it's a variant of the sport that I have limited interest in and that I believe has very little connection to the most commonly played variant.


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    #29
    Richard Hillman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    If sevens isn't rugby then what exactly is rugby? Yes there is lots of scores. Why is that bad? What is wrong with the higher number of scores and proportion of scores in a 7s compared to 15s?

    And that's a good thing. 7s is a festival day out. "Carnival" day out. Its a 6-8 hour affair in stadium compared to 2 for a one off 15s game so of course people will pick and choose games and they cant be compared.
    What makes it crap? That countries don't use their best 15s players doesn't mean the best players are not used. Their is a specialisation required as fitness levels and skill usage is quite different in two games but that doesn't mean the standard of rugby is poor.

    If 7s is "not really rugby" then what exactly is rugby?


    It's a gane of British Bulldog except you can pass a ball to one of the runners and that is the only way you can get tagged.


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    #30
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    Yes, its a niche game. Nothing to do with rugby at all really. And not a very good one. Its relationship to rugby is like pitch-and-putt to golf.

    Makes it perfect stuff for the cesspit of minor sports (and I use the term loosely), corruption, PEDs, nationalist jingoism, politics, overblown self importance, commercial overkill, result rigging, mickey mouse events that are decided by judges holding up numbers, assorted activities more akin to dancing or low grade arts, that is the emperor's new clothes of the Olympics.


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    #31
    rsh118
    Registered Users Posts: 697 ✭✭✭rsh118


    Just to warn you 15s only lads, 7s will be the 'world wide' version of sport. Just look at teams like Canada, Kenya etc competing with the big boys. And with a big audience comes bigger money over time.


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